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She does have the NAV system. I have the previous gen in the S6 which is decent, but the latest version which they call Nav Plus is excellent. It has the same features that you get on current Garmins and TomToms like lane assist, as well as some neat 3D tricks that the portables (other than the super advanced Navigons) don't have yet.
The days of truly horrible nav systems in German cars are over, and I would argue that they are now among the best. The Lexus mouse system would probably be the easiest for someone to just jump in and start using, but the Audi system is definitely better than what Acura has, and is more advanced than the somewhat stale Infiniti system.
The brand new setup in the new A8 and the A7 is the most advanced in the industry.
It's not an issue of factory vs. aftermarket for us. Even if all of our cars were equipped with factory systems, we'd still want an up-to-date aftermarket unit on hand. Many of our vacations involve flying somewhere & then picking up a rental at the other end, so I'll always want something that I can toss into my carry-on.
If a year from now, Garmin comes out with something that's head & shoulders above my nuvi 765T, I'll just eBay what I have now (or give it away - I only have $220 invested in it) & buy the latest & greatest. You can't take that approach with the factory systems.
From where I sit, it looks as if the only real advantage that the factory systems have is the absence of an unsightly power cord running across the dash to your cigarette lighter. For $2K or more, I'll live with the cord.
I'm boycotting factory nav until manufacturers get more realistic about pricing.
At least on the Acura, the advantage of the factory unit (we also have a portable Garmiin in another car) is:
- bigger screen (5 or 7 inches - can't remember which)
- no cords
- can't easily be stolen
- nothing blocking my view through the windshield since it is integrated into the dash
- full integration with the audio system. This is a biggie. I can hit the button on the steering wheel and say "find nearest [gas station/fast food/chinese restaurant/post office/ATM/gas station" /etc.] and the nav presents me a list sorted by distance from my current location. When the nav speaks directions it mutes the audio system. If I call up that restaurant from the previous verbal command, for example, it shows me the name and address and I can hit the phone button on the nav screen and it will call the establishment on the car's bluetooth, which connects directly to my phone in my pocket. When the call connects, the radio mutes and I can speak while driving "reserve me a table for four at 8pm" or "what time do you close?". Meanwhile I have hit the "ok" button and that establishment is already entered as my destination. So one of the big benefits is the seamless integration across all of the electronics: voice control, steering wheel, bluetooth, audio system, etc.
From where I sit, it looks as if the only real advantage that the factory systems have is the absence of an unsightly power cord running across the dash to your cigarette lighter. For $2K or more, I'll live with the cord.
There are a few more positives than just no power cord. Not having navigation in a luxury car is definitely bad for resale, although this is likely only an issue if you're buying rather than leasing.
The screens of factory systems are much larger which makes them easier to read and lets them show more information. Portables pretty much top out at 5", while the standard factory NAV screen is now around 8". BMW likes the ultra wide format and uses 10" screens in their latest cars.
Suction cups stink. They fall off all the time (it's wonderful to have your NAV system fall on the floor while driving) and they leave an ugly ring on the windshield which also serves as a nice "there's a NAV in here to steal" target. Plus, they are simply illegal to use in some states.
The only realistic alternative is a dash pad. Garmin is actually the leader here as they make their own easy to use pad. I had to custom make one for my Navigon that I use while traveling. While the pads are much better than suction cups, they still have some tendency to slide around after bumps or aggressive cornering or braking.
I agree with you that factory NAV systems are overpriced, especially now that you can get turn by turn directions on an Android phone for a grand total of $0. Mostly I just don't like having stuff on dash that takes 3 minutes to assemble and disassemble every time I want to use it.
The latest Garmins incorporate Bluetooth, although it doesn't work quite as well in my nuvi 765 as it does in my wife's factory system.
Not according to a piece that ran in the Wall St. Journal a year or 2 back, according to which you'd be lucky to get back 40% of the cost of factory nav in a 2-year-old car.
In any case, we keep our cars for a minimum of 8 years. At that point, mileage & condition - not color & options - are the main price determinants.
Suction cups stink.
Agreed. I've always used weighted dash pads, which make moving the nav between cars much easier. Garmin's latest looks good & stays in place no matter how spirited the driving style.
I'm surprised that Garmin is still the only one to make a pad that attaches directly to their standard mount. The only other choice if you want to use a TomTom, Magellan, etc. is to attach their suction cup mounts to a universal pad, which doesn't get rid of the suction cup which is the problem the pad is supposed to solve.
My Navigon 8100T is by far the best portable I've ever used, but it's also heavy and the suction cup mount is completely worthless. I ended up buying a universal pad and a third party mount. I removed the suction cup, and riveted the base to the pad. It's a bit fiddly, but it works. The nice thing about it is that I can attach any brand of NAV system, phones, etc. to it.
I could be talked into it...
We also have a portable nuvi with bluetooth and the sound quality is so poor that it is sometimes hard to understand the person speaking. Plus of course the audio system in the car is not muted when directions are spoken. On my Acura the built-in bluetooth works extremely well and the sound quality is excellent.
Regards,
OW
That's one of the reasons I switched from Garmin to Navigon. The speakerphone functionality of a Garmin is pretty much useless at highway speed because the sound quality is so poor.
In any case, Google maps navigation will soon make all portable NAVs obsolete.
Once upon a time, the 911 was Porsche's bread-and-butter product, but these days, the Cayenne and now the Panamera are easily outselling the sports car icon.
Not surprisingly, the competition is facing similar problems. Audi, for instance, has scaled down R8 output from more than thirty to less than ten units per day, and Chevrolet has cash on the hood of the Corvette (including the ZR-1).
Porsche feels that the best remedy for this decline in sports car sales is fresh product with advanced technology, and thus is preparing the most ambitious 911 update in years.
Unlike the current-generation 997, which was a thoroughly revised 996, the next 911, codenamed 991, is definitely brand-new. Big advances include a redesigned suspension (albeit still the same basic strut-front, multilink-rear setup), electrically-assisted power steering, a push-button handbrake, optional twenty-inch wheels, more powerful engines, and last but not least, a seven-speed manual transmission. That's right, seven. Additionally, the 991 is said to be about 100 pounds lighter and ten percent more efficient than the current car. To achieve that last aim, Porsche is refining the aerodynamics, introducing a new thermo-management complete with advanced battery management technology, and incorporating stop-start technology and brake energy regeneration. There will also be new high-performance capacitors, which can store -- and release -- more electric power than a battery alone. Predictably, the next 911 remains loyal to the traditional rear-engine layout, but to improve cabin space, directional stability, and the handling at the limit, the rear axle moves back nearly three inches.
link title
Porsche needs to offfer more "value", their prices are too high, options prices are crazy. I got a great deal on my car beacuse it is a 2009 which are still available on dealer lots, not very many people are spending $100K on 911's in this economy.
Make it lighter, great, offer some more features as standard, yes, add power, make it sleeker, yes, but 7 gears may be too much.
Ruh-roh. The new 5 has gone to electric steering, and it hasn't been praised. Porsche steering is arguably the best there is outside the realm of super exotica, so I would hope that they don't screw it up to save a couple of bucks or 0.5 mpg.
My wife is thinking of getting the a8 convertible, and I wondered if you have any thoughts..Such as the engine being only four cylinders, and if the transmission is o k for it??? Also how much longer before a major body change? Thanks Tony
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you meant the A5 convertible? I could never recomend an A8 cabrio with a 4 cylinder engine.
I haven't driven, or personally know anyone who has, the 4 cylinder A5, though if I were to choose, I would not go with the CVT. I would also opt for the S-Line package, if nothing else, to make sure I had the seat extenders. But your wife may not need them.
I don't have a historic knowledge of Audi life cycles for their models. Perhaps LG or somebody else can help there. The S5/A5 is entering it's 4th model year FWIW. I still think it looks outstanding & should age very gracefully for several years IMO. I actually fear a major body change may do more harm than good.
If your wife test drives it, & feels the engine to be a bit on the weak side, the S5 Cabrio should do the trick. :shades: Obviously, not as MPG friendly as the A5, if that is an important issue. Over 22K miles, my S5 is averaging over 20 MPG, & while I don't track it, I'm in sport mode having a lot of fun a good bit of the time, when traffic allows. I'm about a 75% highway, 25% city (more like suburb) driver.
Hope this helps somewhat. Take care.
Phil
Always count on you for first hand information and a cheery greeting
I guess when we get back to Chas it will be the Audi or BMW...I personally like the Audi, but for a few years of ownership , the hard retractible top would probably be better....It`l be her call, and as usual she may just do nothing, as she likes her bmw wagon.., but when we went by `The Collection` interest perked up .Later Tony
The A5 Cabrio is I think by far the best looking car in its class, and it's also one of the best. I wouldn't be scared of the 2.0T. 211hp doesn't seem like a lot, but it's got a lot of torque and compares well the 328i. There's none of the gutless feeling of the IS250.
If you do want more power than the A5 2.0T has to offer, the S5 Cab uses the S4's supercharged V6, rather than the V8 in the coupe. It won't sound as good (which is too bad because nothing is better for hearing a great engine than a convertible), but it also doesn't pay the fuel economy penalty.
I also agree that you should avoid the FWD/CVT version, especially if you're buying. FWD Audis aren't desirable and the depreciation is higher.
I'm not sure what Audi's plans are in terms of A5 updates. Low volume coupes often don't follow the strict refresh/replace cycles of their sedan counterparts, so the A5 may be with us in its current guise for quite awhile. If the A5 does follow the usual 7 year run, that would mean a new one for the 2015 model year.
Audi is typically extremely conservative with their mid-cycle refreshes except for rare cases such as the B7 A4 which arrived only 4.5 years into the B6 version. I suspect much of that update had to do with the A4 changing its front end to the single frame grille.
There are no new grille designs, new engines, or anything else major that I'm aware of that would change the A5 much before 2015. The exception is the new 8-speed automatic which is supposed to be rolling out across Audi's range over the next few years.
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I saw an A5 in white with a brown interior, very sharp. It would work well in your locations.
Keep the wife happy, then get the Maybach for yourself.
The Maybach really is outstanding...It has an Art Deco look on the inside and really very tastefully done---no question I appreciated it---I believe the price was mid three hundred thousand range---so if I had no one to concern myself about then I probably would get it ,expecting it to be the last luxury car in my life ...but I am lucky and have other responsibilities..
I agree with you about the a5-s5, and it is in the running.....but as I know what is developing, my money is on the Mercedes cabro....at least until she test drives ...then the practicality may show and the wagon would jump to the top....The wagon would be the winner right now if it came with the diesel, as she is impressed with that engine and the perceived economics...They say it isn`t coming, but I bet it does in the not too distant future...As you may remember I`m not a fan of the diesel fuel, but so what...Her choice--, and me with the new tractor I get diesel on myself regardless, so what`s now wrong with a little more? later Tony
At 66 I'm too young and not pretentious/uptight enough for an S Class. I couldn't imagine going out for a cup of coffee in an S550 in jeans and a faded work shirt. The new Jag is only RWD which rules that out. (Don't they know how to call Haldex for an AWD system?) . But the 7 Series looks good (although it is a bit bland ), and the buff books say it handles really well,especially with the Roll Stabilization Option.
Given the 7 Series pricing (selecting 'ceramic' coating on the i Drive knob is a $600 option. If you want a heated steering wheel, you have to buy the ski bag pass through and heated rear seats--where did the young German who estabished the option list get this stuff?), the lousy reliablity (does anyone really expect a twin turbo engine to do 100,000 miles without incident?) ,the expensive maintenance (the Providence Bimmer dealer says to expect to replace the $300 + each runflat tires every 20-25k miles) and the poor resale, am I nuts even to look at one?
OTH an AWD E Class with their no charge sports package, looks good, and at a 53K transaction price is half the Moroney of a 7 Series with AWD and the long wheel base. A Panamera looks good also and the 300 HP, AWD version is about 10K less than the 7 Series. (One of the buff books said though that the Panamera handling was a bit wierd.)
I would welcome your comments. All of them.
Yes, but not for the reasons you listed. The new A8 is simply better in every way. If you want big, comfortable, and AWD, it's the car to get.
As I've stated many times, I'm not a fan of the E-class. If you're looking for an entertaining drive it's the wrong car to buy, sport package or no, and if you want the kind of spacious interior that a BMW 7 has, the E is going to disappoint. In the mid class I would stick with BMW over Mercedes, I don't see any reason at all to buy an E over the new 5 series.
The Panamera doesn't do it for me. It looks like a frog. I don't expect the A7 to be able to keep up at the Nurburgring, but in the real world I would take the Audi over the Porsche in a second. The best part is that the gorgeous wood from the concept actually made production! With that, I think the A7's interior is the best in the business, including any stale looking Bentley.
I still want to see what the 2012 A6 is going to be like, but as of now chances are very good that an A7 or S7 will be my next car.
The A7 will be out next spring, built on the A6 platform, but you should at least try the new A8, great car and nothing beats Audi in snow and ice. Also the A8 has the nicest interior quality and design in the class.
Unless you are going to keeep any of these cars for 5+ years, consider leasing, the depriciation on all of them is very steep.
A week ago, I would have agreed with you. Then I saw one in the Hamptons (always a great place for car-watching) on Saturday & was struck by its presence. It looks much better in the metal than it does in photos.
http://cnettv.cnet.com/2011-audi-a8/9742-1_53-50091857.html?tag=api
A week ago, I would have agreed with you. Then I saw one in the Hamptons (always a great place for car-watching) on Saturday & was struck by its presence. It looks much better in the metal than it does in photos.
Perhaps, but when you see the episode of Top Gear where they put one against the Maserati Quattroporte and Aston Martin Rapide - gorgeous cars - it looks like Quasimodo. The engine note was a big nothing too, which was a suprise. 911s sound glorious.
I have an '07 A8L W12, had an S8 but got rid of it for my R8 !! I have such a fondness for these cars. They're relative rarity is the best. They're only 3 registered in my entire county!
I would wait to test drive the updated 2011 A8 with its quattrosport option multi-variable adjustable suspension.
Of course I have a lot of catching up to do. The first thing I did was fire up the R8, which sounded sinful after more that 5 months of sitting in a air conditioned garage. Oh giddy!
And of course I am all over the new A8 that is about to be introduced here in the States. I saw them in Germany back in August when we were there and I lit up like a little kid at Christmas time!
And of course I am all over the new A8 that is about to be introduced here in the States. I saw them in Germany back in August when we were there and I lit up like a little kid at Christmas time!
For me, it's all about the new A7. I'm not really that interested in full size cars anymore, and the A7 is only a few inches longer than the A6, and yet has nearly the cargo space of an Avant. Very practical without falling into the ugly/stupid/useless trap of the 5 series GT and ZDX.
The new BMW 6 coupe is also shockingly good looking. The concept has a B&O stereo with the pop up Beolab tweeters, wonder where they got that idea? :shades:
Say it ain't so!!! Das Munich copy das Ingolstadt? The deceit! The A7 is going to be an amazing concept. I will be honest though, I will have to see that rear end up close to really appreciate the car as a whole.
Haven't driven it yet but this would be it for me over an A6 at the moment.
The A5 might be too compromising on space for B.I.G. but it's striking compared to the Merc E IMHO.
Regards,
OW
None of those cars will attract much attention in the Hamptons. If you want your ride to be noticed, be prepared to open your wallet for something like a spectacular '57 Buick Roadmaster convertible, restored from the frame up in Eisenhower-era pink & black. That was turning heads. And if you've been invited to spend the weekend at a hedge fund manager's 8500 square foot cottage in SOH (south of Montauk Highway) Bridgehampton, you can't go wrong with a late 50s Mercedes gull wing. (A new SLS will rack up as many status points as a Honda Accord, so don't waste your money.)
You want old (built prior to the early 70s big bumper mandate), cool & immaculately restored.
Yep. Those LED light strips on the BMW look awfully familiar as well. It's a good looking car overall and I like the interior design as well, though not as much as the A7. It's at least nice to see a new BMW though that's not another clone of the 7/X5/5 series interior, and it beats the pants off anything Mercedes can come up with lately. The new CLS interior is not impressive.
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/6-series/bmw-6-series-concept-2010-paris-auto-show- .html
I'll have to pass on the Buick and Mercedes I think. If I'm going to buy a classic, it's going to be a classic. I assume one of these would have no trouble getting noticed.
However, I agree with LG that Audi is few steps up on the pleasing visual design aesthetics at the moment...
Regards,
OW
Hemi welcome back Tony
I agree that Audi is on a roll and smart car guys are in the vanguard of the switch that is going on.
I drove a long wheel base 750 a day or so ago and came away disappointed. Sure they drive "small" but they are looong and have very poor sight lines when backing up to park. The exterior styling is innocuous and doesn't really stand out like an A8 or S550. In fact I am hard pressed when looking at the front end to tell a 7 Series from a 5 Series.
I think I'm going to look again at the Panamera. More pizazz, no MIT E E degree required, more driver involvement, 10K less money, and a better dealership experience. (The latter should be particularly important to someone looking at a 7 Series given their rep.)
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Jeannine Fallon
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