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thebug...
Rocky
Based on what I've seen I would take the CTS over the C350, especially if the Caddy is much cheaper.
It seems to offer lots of high tech toys which is good as well as a hard drive for music. Merc1 should be pleased that it even offer electronic auto damping. The only thing about Benz and BMW is that you've got to pay the price to get such features. I'm not sure it'll be worth the extra scratch over the CTS.
What has the world come to? :sick:
Rocky
Oh, and the CTS does compete with the 3. YOu guys know every thing American is bigger than foriegn cars. And getting bigger. The Impala is larger than the Camry, for example. The malibu was the same size, but is now also bigger than the Camcord. Just the way it is. The even larger STS competes with the 5/E. The BLS was made off Saab platform for Europe only.
Rocky
Rocky
thebug...
thebug...
Yeah it shouldn't go up much at all. GM, wants to be competitive with the IS350, and BMW 335i in price. The plant where the CTS is built is among the best for efficiency so labor hours per vehical is very low because of the very flexible work rules at the Lansing Mi. plant and parts suppliers also have learned to cut costs while keeping quality high.
Rocky
Rocky
"Isn't all that awful" doesn't mean 'good.'
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Cadillac's interior plastics were never hard or cheap--particularly in the current CTS. They only appeared that way.
That was their major issue to deal with.
That was a design issue that was first addressed on the SRX and Escalade.
I don't know where you get the "poor build quality" from either. It was a high-quality, very well built, ugly design.
The front is controlled by "pedestrian safety" (read: Government meddling/nannying) laws in Europe. You are correct about that.
Here is the nose from the side:
I personally like it a lot.
I have an 03 CTS, and as I have mentioned in another post, this is the only car that I've owned that has not had one squeak or rattle in the four years that I've owned it. It has only been on the rack for oil changes. That says a lot about build quality. You've missed out my friend.
About the interior design itself, that was a major selling point on my part, but I guess it all depends on what you are looking for, and or need it to be and do.
As far as the competitors, in reading the owner reviews (suggested improvements), I can clearly see that they are not as happy with their interiors as the Edmunds reviewers say they should be.
As you may well know (or not), word of mouth is the best source of advertisement. That being said, the owner reviews tell a much different story from that of those so called professional reviewers who simply do a one or two day test drive, and then offer up their opinions.
Like the movie critics (who in my view) are sometimes wrong, those providing opinions on autos, fall in the same category. This is confirmed by the reviews provided by those who actually own and drive the vehicle on a regular basis.
thebug...
You seem to be forgeting one important factor, my friend- the V-factor!!! And you should know that'll drive you north of 50 large!
And when it comes to quality and interior sophistication I am talking things down to bottons and how they work and feel. The buttons on my friend's CTS (he is a very good friend, I sit in the car more than I like to) are made from HARD, CHEAP plastic. Even the font on them is what I call 'hokey' and looks very down-market. The dash is covered in a rubbery plastic, this is NOT the same as soft-touch plastic. There are countless plastic moldings on the interior with the molding process fringe still on them. There are gaps all over the place. The doors and switches feel hallow. The car comes with an embarrassingly cheap key etc...it's the details. From a design and materials standpoint the interior of that car is VERY unsophisticated. I don't doubt the car doesn't have squeaks and rattles but you know what?...neither does my Aunt's Ford Focus.
Sit in an Audi and you will understand the difference. it's fundamental. Heck sit in a Toyota for that matter, it's miles better as well. Those companies pay attention to everything. The materials used on the bottom door plastic on my friends A4 is of HIGHER quality than that on the actual front dash of the current CTS.
These Cadillac sell for less for a reason.
The Escalade sells a whopping 62,000 per year--by miles and miles the best sales in its class.
The CTS jumped 100% in the second year and stayed there throughout its entire run--unheard of for any car.
The DTS is Cadillac's best-selling car, period.
Nobody argues that the interior design of the CTS was good--although it sold exceptionally well despite that.
What I take exception to is your hyperbole.
Everything you described in your answer is subjective.
"Down-market" font?
What is that?
"Hard and cheap buttons"?
All buttons are hard. Cheap ones are rubbery.
"Rubbery" plastic?
And just about any dashboard is inferior to an Audi A4.
The materials in the CTS are expensive and first rate. The execution is poor.
In any case, it's all moot, because despite that, people are buying it in droves, and even more will buy the 2008 model.
And nobody would say the new Camry, Tundra and RAV-4 interiors were "miles better" at all.
The long-term Editors at Edmunds have been complaining about the interiors of those Toyota models for weeks now (not to mention the FJ Cruiser interior).
Lessen the hyperbole. Nobody needs to be told what the CTS's problems are. They have been pointed out over and over and over again since 2003. It's still a very good car nonetheless, and this new one should be even better.
sammc123: I took your advise, and went and sat in an Audi A6. Didn't do it for me. For some reason, I didn't get as inspired as you did when you sat in one. Don't know what it is.
I couldn't help but notice that it did have plastic parts though, and it was hard plastic, and it didn't look cheap. You were right. I think you should buy an Audi A6.
thebug...
Also, please tell me what buttons or controls in a Deville/DTS were shared with a Cavalier? A wiper stalk maybe? Check a Corolla/Camry and a Lexus and u'll probably find the same thing.
thebug...
I know about the "V" factor but I wasn't talking about that. I look at the "V" as like a whole other car.
IMHO a fully loaded CTS shouldn't cost over $45K give or take a grand. The CTS-V I expect to be around $55K give or take a grand.
Rocky
I couldn't agree with your post more.
Rocky
Rocky
thebug...
Rocky
Sort of, but the washi aluminum trim is really elegent though. Hopefully the new CTS won't have one of those "better looking in photos than real life" interiors.
Agree with you on A4, C and 3-series. I think besides IS, TL's interior is a looker too.
You continue to talk about the CTS without mentioning other current Cadillacs. I found nothing cheap about the feel or the operation of the CTS interior but thats just me. Even if we agree the CTS interior is lacking, that doesnt mean the same applies to the SRX, DTS and Escalade interiors. I find all three to be very elegant. I'm sure that's just my bias speaking though. I cant be that the interiors are actually nice.
I do have to wonder why you are patrolling this thread instead of making a trip to your Audi dealership. The A4 is well built but it's interior is dated and very monochromatic. It's Nav screen is tiny and the overall design isnt all that much different from the previous generation. I find Lexus, Acura and CAdillac interiors to be far more warm and inviting.
My father has a 2003 DTS and the interior is very nice along with the rest of the car. :mad:
You have no idea what you are talking about!
Lexus is in the midst of doing the samething. It's called the F series that is going to compete with the M and AMG series.
It'll also have to compete with the V series too.
I see many of these forums and see a repeatitve pattern. Don't get me wrong here, there is some merit in your post regarding what GM does. But even when GM does it right, there will be others who have a ego problem and want to put their car above heads and shoulders, even if they know that the other car is better.
I've been inside of a BMW 755li and The top of the line Sedan Benze. My relatives have them. Yeah, these cars are nice insde and out and I also realized over the years that GM needs to get it's act together and stop taking short cuts on things. But after seeing this new 2008 CTS, imo, the inside looks better and rivals the two that I have posted above^.
GM have the ability to be the best. Hell, they have the money to do this.
thebug...