Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

cmuniz · December 2003

I have no problems w/my XT auto climate control. I set it to about 68 in winter and 70 in summer and let it do it's thing. My wife will close her side vent when the warm air is too much for her, but other than that all is well. The XT has what used to be called the "cold weather" package as standard (heated mirrors, windshield wiper heaters, etc) so maybe the system is set up for quick warm up/cool down as a result. I don't mind it myself and really like the total package. I don't have a problem with air blowing out of the side vents to keep the windows clear. When the car warms up the air blowing out of those is very minimal and does not interfere with my driving or comfort. Having said that, it is misleading to have the system indicate that it is blowing air to your feet and have it blow out the side vents, too. I control the system using the temp dial when needed, which is seldom for me, and that seems to work fine. I know many of you don't like the system but it seems to be ok to me. I live in the mountains of NC where it is 28 degrees right now with snow on the ground.

joseph50 · December 2003

I had places to go this past weekend, a couple hundred miles worth of travel, with people counting on me, snow or no snow. So, I had the local shop throw on the snow tires I purchased two years ago and keep mounted on steel 15" wheels.
Here in the Philly area townships are hyper about clear main routes, so I guess the Michelins weren't challenged much. Even a short cut through Valley Forge Park was mostly on black surface. What did register through the steering wheel and seat of my pants was how much more "secure" and stable driving felt on frozen pavement as compared to the regular Geos.
I was super impressed by the traction, control and stopping ability on the side roads which featured deep frozen slush and hard packed snow. 5 inches of snow on uncleared parking lots were absolutely no problem at all.
Over all, these tires are a real "confidence inducer." I think I will leave them on until first sign of spring.
One quick issue: The shop guy in a rush returned my Geos without marking their position.
There goes my careful rotation order. Do they now have to be rebalanced or something special when they are remounted?
Thanks,
Joseph

krccrk · December 2003

23-28 mpg around town, mountain, and canyon driving,
all at around 45 mph at over 5000 ft. altitude.

burnsmr4 · December 2003

Thanks for those responding to my post (about 10-15 back from here) regarding tire selection for a 2002 Subaru Forester S. My father-in-law saw the Yokos this weekend and noted that I needed to change them. Then he bragged about how his previous Michelins got 70K before needing replacement. Of course, after riding around with him, I understand why -- codger driving styles tend to be less abusive to tires. ;-)

That said (without my wife looking over my shoulder to read what I wrote), I'm leaning towards either the Toyos (which I didn't list) or the BFGoodrich tires. Can ANYONE comment on those new BFGoodrich Traction series? I was told that they're basically poor man's Michelins.

Thanks,
burnsmr4

ateixeira · December 2003

Bad news is I broke my streak of tanks with 26 mpg or better - made it to 8 in a row. Overall I had 11 tanks in a row at 25 mpg or better.

That bumped up my average a little, still at 25mpg, I'm not complaining. :-)

-juice

sierratrip · December 2003

For burnsmr4:
I recently replaced by original equipment Bridgestone Dueler H/T's after 27,500 miles. I selected the Michellin X Radial with an 80,000 mile warranty at Costco. The set was $420.00 with tax and disposal fees. Although it has been a limited run so far they are quieter with what seems like better traction in wet conditions (perhaps it's just the new tread making a difference). Speaking of tread they are wear rated at 680. Traction rated A. And temperature rated at B.
I hope this helps in your quest!
-Donn

p0926 · December 2003

Juice- I've got some news that'll cheer you up... on Friday I passed the 60k mark on my 01 (Yikes!) So while we've got the same number of miles on the odo, mine is only half the age of yours :-(

-Frank P.

ateixeira · December 2003

Yeah but that means you'll get an XT before me! ;-)

-juice

joseph50 · December 2003

Any thoughts on my "issue" at the end of #12887?
Thanks,
Joseph

ateixeira · December 2003

Let's see, the 2 wheels with more brake dust were on the front axle. That still won't tell you what side they were on.

If a shop is mounting them for you, sure, I'd balance them. If you're doing it yourself and you didn't have a problem with the tires before they came off, I would not worry about it.

You pattern will be off. Best I could suggest would be to get a tread depth guage. I'd put the less worn tires on the front axle, since they steer and do most of the braking. For the same reasons, they usually wear faster, and that will keep them evened out over time.

-juice

joseph50 · December 2003

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

Joseph.

burnsmr4 · December 2003

Thanks, Donn, for the information about your Michelins. Dang. COSTCO? That's a great price.

I've noticed quite a few people here either taking TireRack.com purchased tires to COSTCO and having them mounted OR just buying them straight from COSTCO.

How does COSTCO rank (scale of 1 - 10; 10 being the best) in terms of post installation support? If they mis-balance a tire or mis-align the wheels? Do you get any sort of limited warranty/documentation from them after the tire purchase and/or installation?

I ask simply because I've been very pleased with Kauffman Tire in north Georgia. They are TERRIFIC at honoring their service warranty. Plus, they also have a deal with my employer for a 10% discount on all services, including tires.

Please fill me in on COSTCO. Ironically, my father-in-law who made comments about my tires this weekend got his Michelins from them too. I guess I may just need to become a member.

Later,
burnsmr4

subarusaleshou · December 2003

while you have one. The big warehouses are ok but they aren't a local place. There have been far too many local places put out of business already. If there's only a few dollars difference then keep your neighbors in business.

ohsubeguy · December 2003

crashton6 .....

Thanks for the lighting info. I called my Subaru dealer 3 times just trying to get them to tell me whether those two buttons should be lit or not. They never called back with the answers. I wonder if Auto Zone or someone could tell me how those lights are replaced. I'm fed up with this dealership.

ohsubeguy

ateixeira · December 2003

Costco's tire prices include mounting, lifetime balance, lifetime rotation, valves, etc. Some shops charge extra for each of those.

You get a road hazard warranty IF you buy the tires there. That catch? Prices are higher than wholesalers. So it's built-in, sort of.

They mounted my Miata's tires, but since I got them from a wholesaler they do not include a road hazard warranty on mine.

-juice

sierratrip · December 2003

Burnsmr4 check out Juice's post. He covered the other part of Costco's deal that is so strong ie; lifetime balance & rotation. In fact, when I picked-up my '02 Forester after they had done the installation, the service mgr. made sure to remind me to come back every 5 to 6 thousand miles and get them rotated. I have never had a problem returning anything purchased at Costco. Even months after the fact, with or without a receipt, they will replace or refund at my choice any item that I'm not 110% happy with. I would believe that the tire center would follow suit if there was something wrong. Another positive is that when travelling you have alot of Costco's across the U.S. to help you out if you have tire trouble.
Good Luck!

-Donn

suydam · December 2003

Don't most businesses offer lifetime tire rotation and balancing? I know my local Firestone/Bridgestone shop does, as does the Michelin dealer.
-- Mary

crashton6 · December 2003

ohsubeguy

I seriously doubt that anyone at the local parts store will know how to replace those lights. Looks to me like you'd have to take the face of the dash off around the radio. Then maybe take the cup-holder out to get enough room. That's just a guess on my part though. Also the bulbs will more than likely have to be sourced at the dealer.

Chuck

stuhall · December 2003

I want to purchase the side and rear seatback cargo nets for my 2004 Forester XT.

I've noticed in the screenshots I've seen on the web it appears to attach to a hook on the internal rear wheel wells. My car does not have hooks there.

I'm wondering if anyone has these nets and how you have them attached. Are these wheel well hooks supposed to be dealer installed? (my dealer is clueless). Do they come with the nets? Any direction on how these work other than looking at tiny screenshots from subaru.com are welcome.

Thanks,
Stuart

ballistic · December 2003

I can't answer that, but I've noticed something about the rear cargo net that isn't ideal. While it can be quickly detached at the top, the two bottom attachments don't appear to be readily removeable (it was dark and raining, so maybe lack of visibility was the problem). I picked up a screw in a tire a few days ago and had to change tires. The net gets in the way of raising (and especially lowering) the spare tire cover and cargo tray. The net in our Chrysler has the same easily detachable elastic slip-over loops at all four corners.

once_for_all · December 2003

I finally found something that Jack hasn't looked at real well. :-) The bottom of the cargo net has a simple hook attachment that is easily unattached.

John

sierratrip · December 2003

You have to drill a hole into the metal and then screw the cargo net anchor into place. When I bought my Forester, I had ordered a cargo net along with some other upgrades so I suggested the dealer handle drilling into my brand new vehicle just in case anything went wrong!

I would assume your dealer would handle the install free-of-charge even if the vehicle isn't brand new. On my wife's Camry you just unscrew a flat plug and screw in the hook, a much simpler and consumer friendly design. Plus it free's up a dealer and their shop from doing what amounts to busy work.

I hope this helps.
-Donn

ballistic · December 2003

Okay, okay, it was a miserable night (when else do you ever get flat tires?). I'll look more closely at the net's lower attachments when the lighting's better and it's not pouring bucketfulls. The lower attachments sure didn't look like the upper slip-off loops, but maybe I was just loopy.

p0926 · December 2003

Assuming that the design didn't change for the 04s, the lower attachment points for the cargo net are two clips that snap onto D-rings in the cargo floor. And yes, they're easy to remove. In fact, I can't imagine trying to get to the spare with the cargo net in place. That must have been a major pain.

-Frank P.

ateixeira · December 2003

Costco's road hazard warranty is the one neat thing most others charge extra for. Valves sometimes too. The only extra cost was for tire disposal, and I think that's required in MD.

-juice

sierratrip · December 2003

Same thing here Juice, they charge a buck a tire here in CA for disposal. Hey, I just thought of another reason why Costco is such a great place to get your next set of tires. Where else can you drop an additional $300 while you're waiting for the car to be ready?!

Donn

ballistic · December 2003

I can't imagine trying to get to the spare with the cargo net in place. That must have been a major pain.

I mumbled a few choice words remembered from my subsailor days...

ateixeira · December 2003

Yeah, Donn, then the tires end up being pretty expensive! I can't get out of that place without dropping a couple of Benjamins.

-juice

bbthomas · December 2003

Stuart, check Subaru's technical site. It has info on installing accessories for 2003 Foresters and Bajas. Should be similar to 2004.

http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/index.jsp

On the left select free publications and search.

BT

burnsmr4 · December 2003

Folks,

Thanks for the COSTCO heads up. I think I might get the Michelins from there. Now I have to decide which Michelins to buy -- XGT4s or MVX4s.

Those were the only tires that the COSTCO website said would fit my 2002 Subaru Forester S. And Michelin's website doesn't recommend a tire for this model and year for some reason. Lots of tire company websites fail to list a tire for this model year and model.

Thoughts and comments are welcome.

Regarding the cargo net -- on the 2002, there's top hooks for the upper part of the net, and then tie-down hooks for clips on the bottom part of the net. It was a nice setup. Sounds like they changed it for some reason.

burnsmr4

ballistic · December 2003

You all shamed me into walking clear out into the frigid parking lot to see how the net attaches at the bottom.

Sure enough, there are little detachable dog clips at the bottom corners.

The top corners are your standard elastic loops that slip over flanged posts, eggzactly like on our Concorde - which also uses the same arrangement at the bottom.

Subaru decided to do the tops the normal way and then confound GOG's (grumpy old geezers) on dark rainy nights by switching to a different method at the bottom.

Stupid car. I'm gonna sell it and get something else.

In ten years or so.

burnsmr4 · December 2003

I'm assuming from Ballistic's conciliatory post that the 2004 cargo net works the same way as the 2002. ;-)

It's a shame that accessories like the cargo net and cargo tray have become "add-on" costs for the Forester. They were included as part of the standard features on my 2002. Although, that's all relative. I'm sure I paid for the "standard" features somewhere.

burnsmr4

ateixeira · December 2003

It's true, the cargo net, cargo cover, and mud flaps became extra-cost options.

Subaru bragged that prices didn't go up, but if you added these options, they did, by about $300-400.

Still, they added about 10-12 features, so we can't complain.

-juice

subkid · December 2003

>>It's true, the cargo net, cargo cover, and mud flaps became extra-cost options<<

which didn't turn out bad for me. Got myself a set of soft mud flaps. Same shape, ideal for off road use and 5 times cheaper than OEM.

Lack of cargo tray prompted me to come out with my way to line whole trunk area (including back of the rear seats) with the plastic - same price and way more useful.

K

ballistic · December 2003

Still, they added about 10-12 features, so we can't complain.

You must be joking. Surely by now I've proved beyond any doubt that I can find a way to complain about anything. Or even nothing.

As for the added/deleted content, I wouldn't mind the discontinued cassette player if Subaru had substituted either (1) a front-panel aux input jack for external add-on devices, or else (2) a CD-player with MP3 compatibility.

sierratrip · December 2003

The Michellin's I bought in San Diego were just called "X Radials".
My '02 Forester L takes 205 70 R15 and it was either the Michellin's or the Bridgestone's which although cheaper lacked a mileage warranty and didn't seem to be in the same "class" as the Michellin.

I thought on my '02 Forester that the cargo net was part of the center arm rest/floor mats/cargo net pkg. Am I mistaken?

Speaking of design flaws does anybody know how I can remedy my cup holder problem. Since I have the padded arm rest above my center console that leaves my pull-out cup holders right in front of the controls for the vents and fan. Nice design idea guys!! Is there an after market set-up for moving my beverages out of the way and keeping the condensation from the bottom of the cup or can from dripping down the front of the controls and radio/cd player? If so, please let me know!

Thanks ,
Donn

joseph50 · December 2003

Granted, the pull outs are thin and rattley, but in full use the containers never condensed-dripped over any of my controls.
Actually, my preset AC and heater settings kept my cool drinks cool in summer and coffee warm in winter.

leo2633 · December 2003

Before I bought my '01 Forester, I read consumer reviews on some web site. In almost every one of the dozens of reviews, the issue of lousy cupholder design and placement came up. I'm happy to see they added real cup holders in the center console of later models (like the '02 and later Outbacks and Gen 2 Foresters).

In 2 1/2 years and 80k miles of use, I haven't had a spill yet (OK, maybe a small drip or 3). Of course, I probably just jinxed myself.

Len

speterson1 · December 2003

The non-aesthetically pleasing way to solve the problem is to take a napkin and wrap it around your drink before you put it in the cup holder. My wife and I have resorted to this in the hot summer months to prevent condensation dripping directly onto the CD player.

once_for_all · December 2003

fodder, the Baja Turbo 5 MT is spinning at 3000 rpm at 70 mph. That may be a shade taller than the standard Forester, and certainly taller than the XT. It will be curious to see what kind of mpg the turbo engine gets in the BT, but a direct comparison is thrown out because of the BT's weight and body shape.

John

c_hunter · December 2003

Saw an XT on the way to work this morning. Guy had a bike on the roof and was coming in the opposite direction, stopped at a light. When the light changed, he must have floored it because the XT went hauling off the line, muscle car style, with the front end in the air and the back end hunkered down. I laughed out loud, it was pretty cool to see. I can only imagine the sensation from the driver's seat.

He must be in a real hurry to get to the trail....

Craig

machaan · December 2003

I am very close to pulling the trigger one of these two.
I am in mid-west, getting a lot of snow this year.
I drive a lot in interstates with strong winds.

Both cars are priced few $100s within each other.

Based on my very limited research:

Forester X
+ Hatchback (Legacy wagon too gaudy for me)
+ Better re-sale
+ Full size spare
- Susceptible to crosswinds?

Legacy Sedan L/SE
+ Lower to ground, better handling?
+ Sunroof
+ Leather steering, stick
+ Styling
- No full size tire
- Potenza on snow?
- Poor resale, next model few months away

Are geolanders on forester good for 1-2 seasons in snow?
Is legacy made in Indiana or Japan.

Help me decide.

c_hunter · December 2003

Neither stock tire will be excellent in snow, since they are not dedicated winter tires. Both will be "decent", like most all-season tires.

We have Geolanders on our Forester XS, and they have about 26,000 miles on them. They are holding up well. We drove the Forester in ~10" of snow last year, and it did just fine. I have Potenzas on my Outback. They are also holding up well with about 33,000 miles on the clock. Had them in 10" of snow in Jan 02, and they did well too.

Legacy is made in Indiana, Forester in Japan.

I believe the Forester is more susceptible to crosswinds, given its profile and weight. We have taken both the Forester and the Outback down to the Outer banks in windy weather, and I definitely notice it more in the Forester, but I wouldn't say it's a whole lot worse than the Outback.

Craig

p0926 · December 2003

Although I agree that the location sucks, I've never had condensation drip on to the controls. At least in my case, it only drips down onto the small storage area in front of the shifter.

-Frank P.

bsvoller · December 2003

We've driven our Forester in hellacious crosswinds (Rockies see gusts over 80mph pretty regular), even towing a camper, (60 mph one day) with no adverse effects. Really.

Crosswind is not an issue with either vehicle.

-brianV

bsvoller · December 2003

I'll not say the placement pre-03 was ingenious, but we've not had any problems. No drips, etc.

I like not having the drinks in the way when I'm resting my arm on the center armrest.

My wife managed to break the cupholder once, but she's like that sometimes... ("What, this is stuck ? Yank on it real hard and see if it moves." It's always the same thing: "But it's supposed to work." "Yes, hon, but yanking on things with your foot on the dash for extra effort is a bad idea...").

She's a real sweetheart, but a bit mechanically challenged.

-brianV

burnsmr4 · December 2003

I just realized that my pricing on the COSTCO Michelins was WAY higher than on Pirellis, Toyos, and Bridgestones that I'd priced out with local installers here in Atlanta. I also need a 4-wheel alignment, and with that, the COSTCO price will be pushing my budget.

I may just stick with the Toyo Proxes TPTs from my local installer. My wife's Toyos have worn very well.

So -- are people buying the MXV4s or XGT4s for Michelins on Foresters?

Thanks,
burnsmr4

fargfam · December 2003

Just thought I'd leave a little feedback from the family vacation to Whistler BC in 03 XS AT.

First off, I figured out how to get the infant seat to the center position. This left the front seats with more than enough room. As far as loading the car with everthing else, (baby jogger, port. crib, baby accessories) I found enough spare room for my gear (1 snowboard, 1 cooler full of beer and food!) Needless to say, we were fully loaded! (not from the beer) ;>p

Our 5 hour drive was comfortable enough and averaged about 23-25 mpg. Even with the extra weight, we were able to cruise at 80+ mph. The only weather elements we came against were heavy rain and wet snow on bare roads. The car handled great!

While climbing out of Vancouver, I came upon and passed (yes, passed!) a black XT with BC plates. You were female, about 55+ years, grey hair. I flashed a peace sign. Did you see me?

)

One thing to note is that the side mirrors really collected water in the rain. I found myself turning on the side heaters continuously. They seemed to do the job and thoroughly dried the mirrors after several tries.

For you XT owners and enviers, I did find myself wishing for more ponies. The XS is adequate, but still...

Oh well, next car.

Matt

originalbitman · December 2003

I still like these cupholders that I installed in my 01. They fold out of the way and grip any size cup very nicely.

http://www.bitman.com/SoobMods/

bit

ballistic · December 2003

the Baja Turbo 5 MT is spinning at 3000 rpm at 70 mph.

That's exactly what XT 5-speeds turn. It's what I'd expect in a lower-powered vehicle, or one with a 7- or 8-thou redline, but not in one as powerful as this. V-8 type power calls for V-8 type gearing, IMO.

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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