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I drive an '02 Protege, a stick shift. I've also recently test-driven new cars with stick shifts: '07 Mazda 3, '07 Mazda 6, '07 Honda Civic Si and '08 BMW 335i. One thing I noticed about all these new models is that the clutch is very "soft" or "light", unlike my Protege's clutch that is "stiff" or "hard". The clutches of these new cars weren't tiring at all........I'm sure you or I wouldn't get tired after a 6-hour 50-mile ordeal in a new manual transmission car. It appears manufacturers have made huge advances in the past few years to make clutch pedal operation less tiring.
m6user, if you don't believe me, next time you buy a car test-drive a manual. You'lll realise that I was right......maybe you'll go back to buying sticks again!!!
Thanks for the suggestion and I have absolutely no reason not to believe you. I drove a little diesel stick in Italy a few years ago and loved bugging around Lake Gorda and the countryside near Croatia. BUT it's a lot cheaper to pay for the slushbox than divorce the wife. Actually more fun at times as well---the wife I mean.
While unlikely, I do think there is still some (small) chance of the new 5-door coming to the US at some point, because they do make it for the rest of the world.
In 2003, when only the sedan was sold here, did they sell the 5 door and/or wagon elsewhere?
2004-2005 5-door sales were pretty good, still not as high as sedan sales. For 2006-2008 5-door sales have been pretty poor. From a sales stand point, the sedan is a clear winner.
I cannot find the exact sales figures, however, I do know that there has been talk in my region about the lack of interest in the 5-door Mazda6.
Same with the wagon.hatchback. The design is now completely different than the euro model and sales of the last version of both more than sucked, rebates generally were 1000-2000 more dollars than the sedan.
I was under the false impression that manuals were cheap to produce, though, since they're far simpler and don't require any hydraulic circuits, microprocessors nor sensors...... But I guess I'm wrong?
I hope your wife can see the other side of the equation: you enjoy driving and a stick would give you that satisfaction.
One thing I've always failed to understand about women: why are they never willing to learn new things, especially driving stick shifts? Your wife is not the only woman I know who refuses to learn. I think it would be nice of her if she would spend the one week or so to learn to drive it!
Any women here? Perhaps you could explain womens' perspective on the issue to me.......
Also, the drawback with the 6 hatchback is that in the 08 model, you can only get the manny transmission in the lowest trim! It's almost a slap in the face. No wonder they're not selling when they only let you buy strip-down models with manny transmissions. There is just NO common sense in mazda's thinking...
The 07 model didn't have this problem, but like I said, I couldn't find any new ones anywhere last year.
I cannot find the exact sales figures, however, I do know that there has been talk in my region about the lack of interest in the 5-door Mazda6.
And this is despite the tough competition in the sedan category vs. almost no competition in the hatch category. Some here seem the think the decision to not sell a hatch in the US was made just to be mean to them, rather than being simply a business decision.
That's funny, so was the first-gen, which I already pointed out, repeatedly.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
Once again, neither was the first-gen Atenza and 6. I'm not saying they were, I was saying that they were NOT dropping 2x the $$$ and research that you so blatantly assumed. Or, the "Ford Focus approach", as you so called it.
And thanks to Aviboy97 for this information:
mz6greyghost is correct. While Mazda did spend a little more money to modify the JDM/euro Mazda6, the under pinnings, suspension, interior design and basic overall design is the same. Only the front and rear facias are different.
Doesn't sound like a "Ford Focus approach" to me. And since his info has been relatively accurate since day one, I'll take his word for it, along with Mazda's, and the DOZENS of other automotive news journals and websites that have said the same thing.
And for the record, Saturn Astra is virtually the same car in Europe and US, the platform is not modified.
Oh really? The Aura is also "virtually the same" to their Opel counterparts? So they didn't make modifications for the different safety, emissions, and lighting laws that the US imposes? Right...
I never noticed any better rebate on the 5 door than the sedan. Had there been, I might have considered it more. At the time I bought, I thought the 5 door would have cost me an extra $1000 based on invoice price, though I never really negotiated on one. I did not want the wing or the black plastic filler piece or the lower roofline in the back seat.
First. Aura is not Astra.
Second, are you implying that only the front and rear facias are different between the Atenza and Mazda6?
Third, federalization and "unique design for North America" are two different things, and my contention is that there are far greater differences between an Atenza and Mazda6 than the example of Saturn that you used. Astra has minimal changes between the Opel version.
What are the specs. for the new 6? Does it have the same interior volume as the Atenza, does it have the same wheelbase? How similar is the curb weight?
If I'm incorrect I'll admit it, I believe the modifications are greater than changes to meet lighting, bumper, and other relevant changes to meet US regulations.
Well, the USDM and JDM/euro Mazda6 share the same platform, which most likley means they will share the same underpinnings. Also, the 2.5L engines are the same. The interior and exterior design are identical, with the exception of the front and rear facias. Will the USDM Mazda6 weigh more? Probably. How much? I would guess not too much, with the exception of the V6.
I believe that the "unique for North America" is intended for marketing, and is meant to trigger interest in the car to people who passed on the Mazda6 and bought something else due to the Mazda6's small size. Does this mean the Mazda6 got huge? I don't think so. I still think it will be smaller then the Altima / Accord and Camry, however, still big enough for families
Ultimately until we see official specs, all we can do is speculate.
I've done some talking with some dealer friends of mine who attended the dealer meetings and saw the Mazda6 first hand. Here are some tid bits from them.
First, everyone was in agreement that this car is much much better looking in person. The pictures do the car no justice. The interior is leaps and bounds over the current Mazda6. Mazda really did pay attention to build quality. As for dimensions, they were not disclosed, however, interior room substantially more then the current gen, however, the overall size of the car is not that much bigger. It is smaller, overall, then the Camry and Accord (Thank God!). Also, the interior space was very well utilized, creating lots of passenger room. Apparently the trunk is really big too.
As for the V6 engine, I was told by that is was announced that it will be the most powerful V6 in it's class, while maintaining great fuel efficiency.
Take this all as you wish. I think it is all good news. I am not opposed to a larger Mazda6 at all, as long as it drives like a Mazda. It appears we did not get a Camry or Accord with the winged "M" on the grill.
Rather, the question is whether there will be more demand for hatchback and wagons going forward. I think the answer to this is yes, there will be as people move away from SUVs.
Look, there wasn't much demand for B class subcompacts before a myriad of car companies started to sell them. There wasnt demand for the first gen prius or other early hybrids before the 2nd gen prius arrived and took off. Sometimes a good vehicle, marketed correctly creates demand. Heck, there wasn't much demand for nor was there an existence of sporty midsize sedans, upscale sporty compact sedans/wagons, small mini-vans, two seated roadsters, rotary powered sports cars... almost every damn vehicle in the Mazda lineup when they were first introduced. And yet? Mazda has done pretty well making vehicles outside the norms of demand. Heck, this almost defines what Mazda is more than zoom zoom.
Now's not the time to regress.. the market is clearly changing and Mazda should be putting out the best of what they have including the 2 and hatchback/wagons. Sure, they've had great success following the trend with the CX vehicles, but I think they can be leaders as well especially with how nice the 6 wagon looks.
On a final note, what do people have against the hatchback anyways? It looks almost exactly like the sedan but with more utility. Is it a bottomline price thing? Honestly, why even build the sedan? If Mazda only offered the "sedan with hatchback" and called it a sedan, would it really hurt sales?
In my dealership, we have spoken many times about Mazda just offering the 5-door, and no sedan. People would buy it. Just market it as a sedan with a lift gate.
BTW, we are going to get the Mazda2, most likely when the new Mazda3 debuts, because it will grow in size, and there will be the need to fill the small car void left by the current Mazda3. Plus, MNAO is well aware of the increasing fuel prices over here.
perhaps if the market shifts toward a greater acceptance of hatches, mazda will be in a position to easily bring over the other body styles since they have the done most of the engineering for the hatch/wagon which is available in other markets. I still have hope that Mazda will reconsider.
Now if the hatch were the same price, not noisier, had as much rear seat head room as the sedan, did not have a wing, and did not have a cheap black plastic filler piece for the side windows, I'd probably have chosen that over the sedan for the sake of the extra utility.
However,I don't think most Americans would choose a hatch, in any case. This is because they seem to think that even a vehicle as small as the Honda CR-V has more utility than a vehicle like the Mazda6 5-door (or even the Mazda6 wagon). For this reason the Mazda CX-7 has essentially replaced the Mazda6 wagon. This is why there also is not a Fusion wagon, instead there is the Edge.
I understand why Mazda does not offer these choices in the US, just like I understand why they would not bother with a manual for the V6 in the US. While I may think Americans are foolish for wanting a 260 HP V6 in a 3000 pound FWD sedan, Mazda is merely producing what the evidence shows Americans are willing to pay for.
This is a message to Mazda:
"If you build it, they will come..."
What other cars even come close, in the same price range?
Maybe this is a good topic for it's own thread.
I sell Mazdas in Canada and folks here have much more European driving tastes. The hatch and wagon sold decently here, but not in the US. Don't blame Mazda, blame the American consumer obsessed with giant vehicles with 9000 HP.
Seriously, the hatchback has nothing to do with power. The fact is that hatchbacks were popular in the '80s but were generally found only on less expensive models that, quite frankly were not so good looking. Thus, the general impression is that they are noisy, unrefined and ugly, or quirky in the case of Saab. That's why the Mazda 3 hatchback sold well, because buyers in that price range do not expect a super quiet ride and are more interested in utility/bang for the buck. Once you move into the higher priced Mazda6 buyers expectations go up.
The other problem is that Mazda was never a large enough maker, volume wise, to change the perception in a big way. If they would market a Mazda 6 5-door as aggressively as they are marketing the CX-7 and 9 then it might sell a lot better. Also, despite the real-world benefits of FWD, it seems like AWD is a big marketing factor now. Perhaps a hatchback or wagon with AWD could be marketed better as an SUV replacement. But as someone else pointed out that might eat into CX-7 sales even though the 6 is significantly longer than the CX-7.
With us Americans its not so much what we like but what we're told we should like. If you market something well, we'll buy it. If you make something great but don't market it, we'll ignore it. Its stupid, but simple, hence the KISS acronym.
CX-7 is 184 inches long the Mazda6 is 187 inches (wagon was 188). I think it is pretty clear that this is the designated replacement of the Mazda6 wagon and 5-door.
As a company that is in business to make money it would not make a lot of sense to spend all kinds of advertising money in an attempt to convince Americans to buy a hatch or conventional wagon, when they can, instead, simply say "hey look at our cross-over".
As far as convincing Americans to buy a hatchback or wagon it would not be that hard. The line between a "tall wagon" and a "low cross-over" is sufficiently blurry that it would be a matter of semantics to market a Mazda 6 wagon or hatchback with AWD and an extra inch of ground clearance as a crossover. That way everyone is happy, we get a hatchback and everyone else gets a crossover-they just happen to be the same car.
Look at the new BMW X6, its essentially a tall hatchback that BMW is calling a sport activity coupe. Compared to a real SUV it has very little utility and is more expensive, but people will buy it because BMW is already pushing it.
Like I said, we'll buy anything you tell us to. How else do you explain thigh masters and magic bullets?
I see, fair enough...maybe there is room for a CX-8, then. But you do recognize that most percieve a tall vehicle to be larger...try telling people that a CR-V is really just a tall civic wagon. Try telling them that the Ford Escape is about the size of a Focus wagon and that in fact the Focus wagon has greater cargo capacity than the Escape.
Look at the new BMW X6, its essentially a tall hatchback...
Okay and why do you suppose they made it tall?
1) with manufacturer incentives, I could buy the Grand Touring s with everything except nav for a little over $23k. A Camcord would cost thousands more for the same level of features
2) HB offerred a level of versatility that no other car offers
I don't know what people are talking about the HB being noisy, it's not. My biggest disappointment is that the car is not more powerful. The handling of this car and the 18" tires beg for more power. Putting the turbo charged 4 cylinder engine in the MS3 or MS6 would have done wonders for this car
The tall wagon (low crossover) is becoming popular because people like the higher seating position, both for visibility and ease of entry/exit. I understand that the whole point of buying the 6 is for the sporty nature of it and raising its center of gravity takes something away from that. However, I believe that even if you just make it appear taller, ie by raising the beltline, and give it AWD people would have a different impression and would be more inclined to buy it.
True, the hatchback purists may scoff and chafe a bit, but if Mazda could pull off the appearance aspect without hurting performance who really suffers? After all, not buying a hatchback because it looks a little like a crossover would be just as bad as not buying a hatchback because it doesn't look like a crossover.
And it's not just the younger crowd looking for that either. I'm 56 years old.
Of course I also have a 4 month old baby so I guess I don't fit any standard buyer profiles.
The reason makers don't want to offer wagons is simple - money. They can charge (and profit) more selling crossovers than a wagon. I still can't believe Caddy has come up with a CTS wagon - it'll be like getting an SRX for 10K off and better mileage. A 6 wagon would be the same for Mazda - they'd rather sell a CX-9 for 30K than a 6 wagon for 25K.
More here
And here
Nobody offers a 5door with the combination of looks, utility, sportiness, and affordability that the Mazda6 5door offered. Sure, there are other 5doors/hatchbacks out there, but usually they are compacts and don't have as much space behind the back seat as the Mazda6 5door did. I suspect even the Lancer Ralliart would have no more room in back than a Mazda3 5-door. Maybe somebody can prove me wrong, but have the specs ready to back up your statement.
2009 mazda6 video
Thanks for the mitsu 5 ralliart link. I couldn't find where the link was I was reading, but this one is pretty fresh on the topic:
link title
I don't think black is the most complimentary color for it but obviously will have to see other colors to be sure. The red looks good. The one thing I noticed is the front fenders didn't look as bad as a lot of people have said. Some have said they look too much like the RX8 but I didn't think so. The rear of the car is really good looking IMO.
go to this site, it is Mazda Canada. Interior pics!!! wohoo!! Car looks H-O-T!!! Same interior as the Euro/JDM model!!
http://www.mazda.ca/root.asp
MAZDA6 i Touring
170-hp 2.5L DOHC 16-valve inline 4-cylinder with VVT
Mileage, City/Hwy (mpg) 22/30 AT
i Sport model features plus:
17" alloy wheels
Fog lights
8-way driver's power seat & electroluminescent gauges
Push button ignition start
Leather-trimmed steering wheel & shift knob
Trip computer & welcome mode
Mazda Advanced Keyless Entry System
Anti-theft security alarm
The price on this configuration was $23550 which included destination charge. There was no Special Value packages listed.