Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

p0926 · May 2004

Ugly or not, the Element is selling quite well so there's obviously a demographic that it appeals to.

-Frank P

ateixeira · May 2004

I think it outsells the Forester, and keep in mind it's Honda's 2nd compact SUV.

Of course Honda has a lot more dealers and they priced it lower than the CR-V. In reality I think a lot of ex-Accord owners moved into those two, because Accord sales are down.

Element has 16" rims and a tighter suspension than the CR-V, but it's also heavier and taller. So it might feel better until you're really pushing the limits.

-juice

samiam_68 · May 2004

The Element is not ugly, just utilitarian looking. And I don't think any of the Preludes were "gorgeous". They were OK looking - there was always something disproportionate about their rear ends - just like the 2-door Accord today - looks nice from the front, but kind of cheap from the back and sides.

My opinion only, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... :-)

lfdal · May 2004

I actually liked the way my wife's 96 Accord wagon looked, although the dealer actually derided it as having the aerodynamics of a shoe box. All things considered if they'd still been making them she would have probably gotten a new one instead of her OBW.

But - now that she's had a taste of AWD and the AWP with the heated seats in the winter, I think she's happy with the OBW.

Larry

once_for_all · May 2004

drove rather nicely, decent pickup, good steering, but it was NOISY especially at 70 mph. Fit and finish far nicer on XS.

Speaking of Honda styling, the 2006 SUT looks like a real brute with some nasty robotic lines. It will probably sell a million.

John

ballistic · May 2004

Ugly or not, the Element is selling quite well so there's obviously a demographic that it appeals to.

I'll resist the temptation to quote P.T. Barnum.

Easy, now, Forester has unpainted cladding too, and I love the stuff.

Fortunately, the premium package is available for those who don't. Wild horses could not drag me into a Baja, or its big-brother lookalike Chev Avalanche.

We all have a duty to resist the spread of visual blight. (D&R)

ateixeira · May 2004

The love/hate reaction to the Element's styling is just what owners want, most likely. Keep that in mind.

Why are some sports cars school bus yellow? You think those owners want to blend in?

Avalanche is another hot seller, BTW.

-juice

rsholland · May 2004

I like the styling. I hate the payload, which is a measly 675 lbs.

Bob

nygreg · May 2004

The Element was targeted at what I will call the very young crowd (early 20s). However, it suprised Honda to find out that it has a big following with what I will call the young crowd (mid 30s to mid 40s).

I think many marketers are following this will interest.

Greg

ballistic · May 2004

Why are some sports cars school bus yellow? You think those owners want to blend in?

The very first Jaguar XK-E I ever saw in the flesh was circling the track between races at the Rose Cup Sports Car Races in Portland in about 1961. It was yellow, and it was among the most stunningly beautiful examples of automotive art I've ever seen, before or since.

leo2633 · May 2004

juice said to Jack, "Our Foresters take a bump at the same speed, mine is much more likely to be undamaged than your painted-bumper XT." He must be hallucinating again. No way his Forester can get to the same speed as Jack's!

Speaking of speed, my '01 Forester just hit 90K today. Where have all those miles gone?

Len

once_for_all · May 2004

you are right, I looked at it for its utilitarian value. I would have avoided any of the obnoxious colors. Had Honda put in decent gauges, AC, and some other basics, I would be in it today rather than my XS. 43 years young.

John

rsholland · May 2004

Gotta agree there. XKEs (or any color) are flat out gorgeous. At least the early models were; the later models far less so.

Bob

p0926 · May 2004

The Avalanche is not only ugly but ridiculously oversized for the vast majority of owners who would be far better served by the Baja (or a similarly sized vehicle). Unfortunately need and want seldom cross paths in the American consumer's decision-making process ;-)

Hey, this is the Forester forum, how'd we get so far off topic? Well I needed a vehicle with some utility but I wanted something fun to drive and the Forester satisfied both perfectly!

-Frank P

stever · May 2004

Rats, and I was just about to chime in that I like the Element's looks too, and my nephew the contractor loves his Avalanche.

Oh well, back to the Forester.

Steve, Host

quark9 · May 2004

A bit over 2 weeks ago I was in a very bad accident in my 2002 CR-V. Without going into details, my car was totalled; luckily, I was not. I do have bruises and sprains and a fractured vertebra, still hard for me to get around, and have been car-shopping online and by phone. I only get a rental car for a week once the insurance company pays me, so I have to hurry up and buy a car.

The Forester was the only other car I considered when I bought my CR-V 2 years ago. I don't want another CR-V for emotional reasons (mine tried to smash me to pieces, although in fairness it also saved my life) and also because the one thing I never liked about it, although I otherwise loved it, was the bad rear and side visibility. Safety is also real big with me right now. Safety and handling.

Anyway I'm buying a Forester, sight unseen. I have allowed my (mostly grown) kids to choose the color - blue - by looking at pictures online! I've negotiated what I think is a pretty good deal, and have a deposit on a blue XS MT not too far from home. Expect to finalize the sale when my insurance check clears and I get my plates back from the salvage yard. I did get more from the insurance company than I anticipated, the CR-V held its value very well (even with 5-speed and high mileage for age), so I will be able to buy my new car without financing and therefore qualify for the $500 rebate!

I was pretty set on an XS mostly because I live in New England and it seems as though the LSD, EBD and other cold-weather features of the XS would significantly enhance safety and comfort all winter. XS MT's are hard to come by - at least around here! (I'm not springing for the Premium - hardly ever used the moonroof on my CR-V EX. Incidentally I got the EX for one reason only - it is, or was then, the only way to get ABS in a CR-V.) Only options I'm adding are security upgrade, cargo tray, bumper cover and wheel locks. My brother has offered me the original deck from his WRX (he upgraded his system) if I decide I want it because it has both CD changer AND cassette and I see from this forum that it should fit in the Forester.

Anyway here (at last) comes my question. I've been reading and reading in this forum and I must say I'm thrown by the posts regarding the durability of the unpainted bumpers and cladding on the X. I wonder whether that feature is worth giving up the LSD, EBD, mirror and wiper heaters etc. for.

Your guidance will be appreciated. Thanks.

dnestr · May 2004

You've made a right choice. Forester's RW is always in drive but a CR-V does it "on demand". That's an essential distinction you have to allow for. Other options just dwindle as compared with it.

suydam · May 2004

I say you absolutely made the right choice based on where you live. You will love the heated seats and windshield next winter. And as for the bumpers, my '99 Forester S (predecessor of the XS) has nary a scratch that's noticeable after 5 years of traversing unpaved roads often in bad weather. I don't know about the new versions, but in the older ones, the seats were better in the S than the L also (even if, as Tom and Ray noted, the fabric looks like someone threw up multicolored dog biscuits all over it!!). You'll also appreciate the much better visibility as well as the safety and handling aspects of the Forester. That's the reason we bought the Forester over the Highlander.

p0926 · May 2004

The bumpers and cladding are made of the same material on all Foresters (plastic) so they're equally durable. It's just that the inevitable dings and scratches blend in better on the unpainted ones. However, you left off the most important feature of the XS... the heated seats! Living in New England I'm sure you'll put them to good use :-)

-Frank P

purduealum91 · May 2004

I am truly driving myself nuts trying to make this decision. I am on a limited budget. Our other vehicle is a Hyundai Tiburon. My new vehicle will be replacing a VW Golf TDI. I will hat eto see the Golf diesel go. It has been exemplary. Will miss seeing 300 miles at a half of tank. Anyways, we will be new home owners (our first). We need avehicle that will offer utility and not break the bank. Now, looking at Fitzgeralds web site, I see the least expensive XS is $21,400. Thats more than i can afford. The 04 Outback is more doable. However, when sitting in it, I cant help but think it seemed small. One of the nice things about the element is the washable interior. Having a dog, hauling cement bags, flowers, etc, I will not have to worry about getting the interior dirty as I can simply wipe it off. Didnt mean to stir things up. To me, the Outback wagon is a better deal right now than even the Forester X because it includes cold weather package and limited slip. Uggghhhh! Someone shoot me!

dnestr · May 2004

If you like so much the heated seats then don't get a Forester with leather (if it's available for XS). Last winter (it was an extreme cold day) I compared the heating time with other XT in a top package. So mine was doing this twice quicker. My sensations could be subjective though.

suydam · May 2004

Just to give you more headaches, have you looked at the Ford Focus wagon? It seems gas mileage is important to you, and the Forester's will not be as good as that of a small wagon like the Focus or Mazda Protege5. We drove a diesel version in Europe that was very nice. The tradeoff is handling and all-weather capability. How much do those things matter? Are you moving up from the Golf because of size -- you need more cargo room? Or just time for a change?

p0926 · May 2004

ballistic · May 2004

He must be hallucinating again. No way his Forester can get to the same speed as Jack's!

Juice probably drives his X half again faster than Jack drives his XT...

purduealum91 · May 2004

The Golf diesel has been unreal. I used to own a 97 outback sport, so I am familiar with Soobs. LOVE THE AWD and missed it greatly. A local dealer will go as low as $18999. Not as great as Fitz, but by the time I add airfare, etc., $18999 for the Outback is a MAJOR steal. The outback has more features than the Forester X.

nygreg · May 2004

I hope you recover quickly. I have an 01 OB with 65K miles with the painted cladding. It is holding up very well so I don't think the unpainted vs. painted is an issue.

Greg

purduealum91 · May 2004

The Golf diesel has been unreal. I used to own a 97 outback sport, so I am familiar with Soobs. LOVE THE AWD and missed it greatly. A local dealer will go as low as $18999. Not as great as Fitz, but by the time I add airfare, etc., $18999 for the Outback is a MAJOR steal. The outback has more features than the Forester X.

lfdal · May 2004

If you do much highway driving you might want to consider the plastic shielding that can be applied at the dealer's before the car ever catches its first chip. The product I went with is called Autobahnd. I've made numerous highway trips and have no marks on my paint.

In lieu of that you might want to get the hood deflector. Very inexpensive ($55 or so) and I think the dealer would install it cheap if you're getting it with the car.

The Autobahnd has an expensive list price, but is all dealer profit - I ended up paying about 40% of his first price, with very little negotiation.

HTH

Larry

joybell · May 2004

is the perfect vehicle for a country veterinarian. Our vet just bought one a couple of months ago. He did look at my Forester first, but couldn't fit his vet supplies box between the rear wheel wells. The Element can be hosed out which is a big plus for a large animal vet, and the doors open in such a way to allow him easy access to his supplies. However, on the down side, it does not look safe for side impacts! This "baby hummer" does ride like a truck, unlike a Subaru that rides like a car and works like a truck. It is sort of disappointing that not one of the 8 large animal vets at our local clinic has a Subaru anymore.

joybell · May 2004

looks like a running shoe.

ateixeira · May 2004

Len: now that's just mean. ;-)

quark9: go for the XS, I'm just suffering from XT Envy and like to tease JB on occasion.

The XS has the LSD, side air bags that protect your head, and most importantly, much better tires (H-rated, AA for tracion and heat resistance) than what is available in the size for the CR-V. In fact one rumor has Honda going to a 16" rim next year on the EX models.

Focus wagon with the PZEV 2.3l shouldn't be a bad choice, IMO.

-juice

ballistic · May 2004

The Baja looks like a running shoe.

No way. I've seen some ugly running shoes in my day, but none quite that bad...

paisan · May 2004

Just remember to tell your vet, that it can only carry 675lbs which includes, driver, fuel, and cargo....

-mike

paisan · May 2004

Running shoe? Take a look at the M Coupe if you want to see a sneaker!

-mike

jazz · May 2004

Okay, I know I'm taking up space here for no reason other than to gush, but I have to share this with people who will understand...

I just bought my Forester three weeks ago (XS PP AT). Today was the first time I got a chance to use it to run errands. Now, I'm not hauling appliances in it, or shrubs and landscaping materials, but I loved my car today. I loaded the dog's crate in the back, anchored it to the cargo hooks, folded down the seats (so easy!) so I could keep an eye on her, and took her to the vet. Then I ran errands for a couple of hours. The dog was happy in the back looking out the windows, the rest of the space was great for picking up the dry cleaning and the other packages along the way. No cramming things in like I used to with the Civic - as a matter of fact, once the dog's crate was in the back seat of the Civic, there was never an option to do any other errands --- the car was already full!

It's a beautiful day here today - the roof was open (worth every penny I paid for that moonroof!), the tunes were playing, and I was one happy new car owner!

Okay, gushing session over....for now ;-)

bonbon · May 2004

I am buying a Forester this week and we are considering putting in a navigation system. We have to meet with the manager on monday because the salesperson didnt have the info about it. Does anyone know about the navigation system subaru would install ? Does anyone have it?
Thanks

edunnett · May 2004

bonbon - no clue on the navigation system sorry. and congrats on the upcoming purchase! just wishing i'd known this before i got my subie last month (but finding out as we're buying hubby a honda this month) try not to pay more than invoice for the car - you can get quotes at or close to invoice in writing from dealerships in your area by going to cars.com and such. carsdirect.com is usually about $200 over invoice. print out these quotes for negotiating. congrats and good luck! - elissa

edunnett · May 2004

I've been wondering... When I bought my '93 MT Honda Civic - no break-in period. When I bought my '01 MT Forester - no break-in period mentioned to me. When I bought my '04 AT Forester I am told all about break in period. Now my husband is buying a '04 AT CR-V and no break in period. Whats' up with the breakin? Why do only some cars need it? Is it dependent on tranny type? What does Honda do that requires to owner breakin and why can't all auto makers do that? Any help clarifying this would be appreciated!
Elissa

cmuniz · May 2004

Elissa - This is somewhat controversial and there are many opinions as you will soon find out. Generally newer cars don't require as stringent a break-in routine as the older cars require. I was told when I bought my 2004 XT and my 02 Highlander that the most important thing is to vary the speed during the first 1,000 miles or so and take it easy on the brakes. This is so that the valves and rings seat properly and the brake pads start to wear evenly. There doesn't seem to be any problems reving the engine beyond 4,000 rpm from time to time. What you don't want to do is take it off the lot, set in on cruise control for the first 500 miles and slam on the brakes any time you stop. Other than that most anything else is ok. Also, most new cars don't require an oil change until a minimum of 3,000 or sometimes 7,500 miles. Having said that many people feel that it doesn't hurt to change the oil at 1,000 and baby the vehicle for the first 1,000 mi. I'm sure other will chime in with their routines.

p0926 · May 2004

Even automotive experts can't agree on whether the break-in period is necessary in today's new cars with their close tolerance engines. IMO most people (and that includes manufacturers) who recommend a break-in period nowadays are really just erring on the side of caution figuring that it certainly won't hurt and can possibly help. Of course part of this group is the "that's the way we've always done it" crowd :-)

-Frank P

paisan · May 2004

Any navigation in your forester would be Dealer installed aftermarket system NOT Subaru installed.

-mike

bonbon · May 2004

Yes I realize it will be dealer installed but I was wondering if anyone else here has done this for a Forester and if so how they like it. Also if anyone knows which navigation systems are good and which arent I would appreciate any info I can get before I buy this

Thank you!

ballistic · May 2004

My personal recommendation is to skip the overpriced dedicated vehicle-installed nav systems in favor of something like the highly-rated Garmin iQue 3600. Available at about $500 and highly portable, so that it can easily be moved to and used in anything you drive, including rental cars and boats. It has voice prompts, autorouting, comes with a CD that provides detailed maps of the entire USA, and even does double duty as a PalmPilot. The only important capability lacking in the current version is wireless Internet connectivity. I'm waiting to buy until one comes out with that.

jeg · May 2004

In deciding between the Maxima and Forester, I have to say that I have been influenced by the great enthusiasm of the Forester people. I found a 2002 Forester yesterday that I think fits the bill in most ways. However, a couple of things I've noticed in the 2001 and 2002s that I've test-driven are wind noise and squeaky brakes. Do these features come standard with all Foresters or are they something specific to the cars I'm driving? The various salespeople said they didn't know why the brakes were squeaking. Do all Forester brakes squeak or do the brakes need to be replaced? The mileage on the cars ranged from 35,000 to 50,000 miles. Also, there's no way to reduce wind noise, is there?

Thanks,
JEG

edunnett · May 2004

Wind noise: My '01 Forester didn't make any wind noise. That was one of the reasons that I purchased it. However my spanking new '04 happens to have a wind noise problem that the test drive vehicle did not - could be specific to individual car. The '01 even had a moon roof which could add some drag and noise. It did begin making wind noise shortly after I bumped one of the side view mirrors, creating a very very small nick in the front part, thus creating wind noise. Maybe your test drive cars have similar little body damage? If you find such a cause for the wind noise, I suggest deducting cost to repair/replace the part from the kelly blue book value of the car in 'good' condition (forget what the dealer is asking for it - you should offer fair market minus defects). Side view mirror if electronic will cost about $300 to replace. Any damaged panel I figure costs $500 to repair.

Squeaky brakes: I can't find in my owners manual the recommended interval for brake pad replacement but the inspection of brakes is every 15K. Usually a slight squeal when you first apply the brake is the indicator that the pads need to be replaced. However, sometimes brand new brake pads make some noise as they 'settle in'. The thing about buying from a dealer is you do not have access to the vehicle history so you can't tell what that squeaking is all about. I'd say, call your local service station, get a price on a brake job including resurfacing the rotors (just for precaution ;-), new pads, changing the fluids, etc... and deduct that amount from the retail blue book value for the car then offer your dealer your new cheaper offer for the car with the reason that the brakes need work - maybe the previous owner traded it in when they did because they didn't feel like paying for the 45K mile service for themselves - assume it hasn't been done and use that as leverage for purchase price. 45K mile service includes inspecting the following and replacing/repairing where necessary: steering and suspension, clutch, all brake components, axle and boots and joints, replace engine oil and filter, and throw in a tire rotation there too.

stever · May 2004

There may be some helpful info over in Navigation / GPS Systems too.

Steve, Host

lindamac · May 2004

Found a 2003 Forester with two features that are very important to me: leather seats and sunroof (I see some call them moonroof).

HOWEVER...one problem...I don't like the colour (it's white). I asked if it could be painted, and the pre-owned sales guy initially scoffed at the idea, but when I called back later he said that they do repaint the vehicles at a cost of about $1100 US.

Anybody out there with experience in this? Do the paint jobs make the car look exactly like a vehicle painted at the Factory? or...is it a thinner looking paint and prone to problems?

c_hunter · May 2004

lindamac: an aftermarket paint job will never be as good as the factory paint for only $1100. You should look for a car in the color of your choice and not waste money on repainting.

re: the wind noise, if it's coming from the gusset seal (near the mirror) and you can affect the noise by pressing on the window glass and/or gasket in that area, then it can be fixed by adjusting the angle of the gusset or replacing it. Here's what I did for my wife's 03 XS:

http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/gusset/

Craig

ltjoe · May 2004

Hi everyone, been a while since I have been able to read or post a message, but I'm all caught up now : ).

After going to the Tire Rack web site, Im curious about the OE tires on my '04 Forester. After reading the reviews which range from a couple of people who love them, to most who hate them, I'm seriously considering switching them before the winter.

Has anyone trashed the Yoko Geolander G900's before they wore out?

I have Bridgestone Turanza LS-T's on my wife's Odyssey, and am considering LS-H's for my Forester.

Also, has anyone gone up a size, and if so how did it work out. I was thinking maybe 225 instead of 215.

Again Thanks in advance everyone.
Joe

paisan · May 2004

For $1100 that's funny. I wouldn't trust a paint job for less than $5000, even then it may not be as good as OEM.

-mike

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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