Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

ballistic · May 2004

ALthough I plan to purchase dedicated snow tires just to be ready for anything, the OEM Geloanders performed superbly in our 1-foot-plus-ice accumulation, up and down very hilly terrain last winter. I really couldn't have asked for more.

tidester · May 2004

Since you've been away we've added Ask Connor at The Tire Rack to our discussions. He's quite helpful and you might pay him a visit!

tidester, host

jtm4 · May 2004

The "check engine" light came on in my '98 Forester due to a loose gas cap. Now, I went to Auto Zone and had them check and clear the light. Shortly after I went to get my state inspection and there were no codes on the cpu. My question is, how many miles before the cpu resets and displays codes? I have 15 days to go back and have the Forester re inspected. I've put about 130 miles on the Forester since the reset. Thanks.

Jim

c_hunter · May 2004

The Geos on my wife's 03 Forester XS have been great in all conditions and are wearing very well at 30,000 miles (still a LOT of tread left). I would not put too much money on the customer reviews from TireRack. People love/hate many tires that I have had the exact opposite experience with.

Also, the Geos on the 03-04 Forester are a new design for the Forester. Unless the comments pertain to that specific version of the Geo, they're not even relevant.

Craig

p0926 · May 2004

Jim- I'm confused. I thought that codes were a bad thing and that a properly running engine wouldn't have any. It sounds like you're saying that the inspection station can tell that you reset your ECU and are therefore suspicious that you're trying to hide something?

For future reference, if the CEL is caused by an insufficiently tightened gas cap, it will normally reset by itself within a couple of days.

-Frank P

edunnett · May 2004

Just payed $400 for my husband's truck to be evaluated when his 'check engine' light came on. When he first got the light I told him to check his gas cap for tightness, he cranked it on tighter then brought it to the service station that just performed the 60k service day before, they picked up an evap code, cranked the gas cap tighter and reset the code. Next day the light came on again. We took it someplace else, paid $300 for the eval to tell us that it was a 'gross fuel leak' and the gas cap in particular. It was sufficiently tight at that point but damaged ;-) So we have a new gas cap now, passing CA smog inspection and an empty wallet. By clearing the code spitting out the check engine light, if the thing causing the code isn't fixed, it will come on again after a bit of driving (for us that was about 1 hour). The fact that it was cleared at all is not a problem.

edunnett · May 2004

I have a lot of wind noise on my drivers side on my '04 forester that I've been trying to pin point the cause - side mirror, window seal, etc. Your posting intrigued me. Did you go to your dealer first to ask about warranty covering the wind noise? Was there water leaking as well? The wind noise I'm getting is driving me nuts and wasn't a problem in my test drive vehicle so I'm wondering if I can get the dealer to pay if only I can figure out what's causing the noise in the first place. When I put a thin towel over the window before closing the door the noise goes away but I can't drive for long like that ;-)

jtm4 · May 2004

Frank P, when I explained the situation to the inspection station they told me, "no problem, just drive it around a while and the codes will reset." They understood the situation. They explained that the codes(cpu)are what passes or fails the car. I've had the same CEL before and let it reset on its own. I only had AUTO ZONE reset the CEL because I had some free time to get the inspection and couldn't wait for the CEL to clear. It had been on for three days. I just wasn't aware of the time(mileage)it took for the cpu to reset. Live and learn.

Jim

mckeown · May 2004

During an inspection, where a state uses the ECM for emissions testing, The ECM (ALL OBDII by Federal Design) keep track of driving 'cycles'. These MUST be set to Completed (Not Set of Incomplete are the opposite). These are various types of driving conditions under which the engine and emissions have stayed within the Federal Emissions Standards (for the US). Sometimes a trip of 1-2 hrs after a reset will set these, other times I haven't seen them set to complete for a week of so of driving. There are 5-7 conditions depending on the vehicle class/type.

This also discourages owners and garages from doing a reset just before an inspection. Even most generic OBDII diagnostic equipment display these.

These are on ALL OBDII vehicles.....Toyota's, Subaru's, Ford's. GM, Mopar.....etc

suydam · May 2004

I would think the Turanza LS-H's wouldn't be what you would want for a Forester; I have them on my Maxima. The LS-T's have a longer warranty I think. I just got Firestone Affinity for mine. The OE Geos (yes, prior to '03) were awful and buckled on all 4 tires at 25,000 miles. Then I had MIchelins which were fine but only lasted 45,000 miles.

c_hunter · May 2004

There were no water leaks in our case, just noise that was easy to pinpoint (pressing on the gusset seal and glass made the noise come and go). I probably could have gotten it covered under warranty, but my experience is that dealers are not always skilled at these kinds of things (they would have to have experienced and fixed the issue before to really know what to do). So, I ordered the part and installed it myself. For $45, it was the easiest "fix" in my mind. I already was doing maintenance on the car that day, and was adding a moonroof wind deflector.

If you can pinpoint the noise, it will help the dealer immensely. From there, it will depend on how good they are at fixing these things. If they tell you it's normal, then call Subaru of America and start a case. It definitely is not normal. Replacing the gusset made a huge difference in our car, it was much quieter afterwards. It was really driving my wife nuts.

I think this is a universal problem with the way Subaru designs the seals for their frameless windows, and the problem varies from car to car. My 2000 Outback never had this problem. My 2003 WRX does not have this problem. My 2002 Outback only makes the noise if the window has been rolled down and then back up while driving). And our 2003 Forester made the noise from the beginning. So it could be something that varies with the tolerances of vehicle assembly. Nothing would make me happier than to see this problem fixed on the 05 Legacys, so I will be very interested to look at the design of their window and gusset seals.

Craig

Kirstie_H · May 2004

A newspaper reporter is looking for someone who has financed a new car for longer than 60 months and is still paying for it. Please send your daytime contact info to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, May 19, 2004.
Thanks!
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

jsmith1 · May 2004

I'm a day or so away from taking delivery on a '04 XS automatic. The dealer is strongly recommending a 6yr / 60K warranty for $920 with a $50 deductible (available for $850 w $500 deductible, or $1150 with $0 deductible).

He is also suggesting that I get the maintenance plan for 3 yr / 36k, for $800.

Is there any value in buying either of these? Are these prices fixed, or can they be negotiated? Thanks

c_hunter · May 2004

First of all, you should probably "pass" on anything recommended by the dealer!! Some people do like to get the extended warranty, but I never do (and have never regretted the decision). If you do get a warranty, be sure it is offered through Subaru and not a third party. Also, the prices are negotiable and you can even purchase them online.

Finally, you do not have to buy the extended warranty until just before the basic 3 year /36,000 mile warranty expires. So don't feel rushed. You can always decide later on, and perhaps have a better idea if you will even really want or need it.

$800 for 3/36 maintenance is really high. My wife's Forester probably only cost about $200-250 to maintain over 30,000 miles, and that includes the 30,000 mile service (did it myself but paid for parts). You're looking at about 5 oil changes and tire rotations in 36,000 miles and the 30,000 service (which includes many other items). Based on what most dealers charge for all that, it all should only cost $400-600 tops.

Craig

p0926 · May 2004

Michael- Thanks for the informative post on ECM testing and codes.

Elissa- That was one expensive CEL! Also, concur with what Craig said regarding pinpointing the noise. Unless you can do that you stand almost zero chance of the service dept fixing it.

Hosts- I certainly hope that there are no Subaru owners with 72-month loans! The crew is much smarter than that :-)

jsmith- re extended warranties: Ditto what Craig said.

-Frank P

stever · May 2004

That's why it would be newsworthy!

Steve, Host

ltjoe · May 2004

Thank You Craig,Tidester,Ballistic and Suydam for your help. I will use the link and maybe will hold off on dumping the Geolandar's.

Thanks again everyone : )
Joe

once_for_all · May 2004

I purchased a Subaru Gold Plus 6yr/80k with $50 deductible for $870. You have wiggle room on those prices.

John

elleng · May 2004

I got a 5 year 100k mile gold plan for 849.00. So yes things are negotiable.

edunnett · May 2004

So, when I press on the gusset I get no change in noise really. It's pressing on the WINDOW itself that seems to reduce the noise. Is that what your wife's car had going on too? I have searched for breezes near the window and detect none. Maybe it's just a bad gasket/seal around the whole window? Or do you contend that the gusset at a bad angle could cause the whole window to be windy noisey? I"m not really sure how to "pin point" it. :-(
Thanks soooo much for yours and FRanks comments already. c_hunter - where did you buy the gusset and did it come with instructiosn?
thanks!!!
elissa

c_hunter · May 2004

On my wife's car, pressing on the glass *near* the gusset made the most difference. The leak was on the outside so pressing the glass outward sealed it up. Alternately, you can use electrical tape to seal up the gusset/glass interface inside and out, and that will also aid in diagnosis (it did for me).

I bought the new gusset from Liberty Subaru online (you can email parts@libertysubaru.com). The part did not come with instructions, but it was very easy to figure out how it worked just by looking. You have to pull off the interior door panel, but that's the worst of it. You could probably use my pictures to aid in the installation.

I bought a new one because the opening was too wide and there was no way to adjust the angle and fix the problem. You may be able to fix your problem by just adjusting the angle, if the gusset is in fact the problem.

Craig

edunnett · May 2004

Hey! Guess what?!?! Check this out! I guess I'm not the only one:
http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/whatsNew.jsp
Apparently in April this year, Subaru released a doc/tsb sort of thing on correcting the gusset wind noise. Also noticed it was a proble on '90 and '92 legacys. Guess I'll be going to my dealer after this document arrives at my doorstep. Hooray! Thanks everyone! -elissa

c_hunter · May 2004

Cool, that will really help!

eps105 · May 2004

Hey all, I just bought a "professional installation" hands-free car kit for my cell phone, and I am going to try to install it myself in my 2003 Forester XS.

Does anyone have any experience as to where I can easily access an always-live 12V line (hot when ignition off) and an ignition switched 12V line?

The installation also requires securing a small control module and a loudspeaker under the dashboard. Any suggestions on good places to secure them and/or tips on drilling screws into the floor pan?

Finally, does anyone know of the factory Subaru radio for the XS (6-CD + cassette) has the ability to accept external audio inputs and/or external muting control? I'm probably not going to attempt to tap into the radio, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks!!
Elliot

jtm4 · May 2004

Well, I drove my Forester for a little over 200 miles to reset any codes in the ECU. I took it back for inspection and it passed. I'm not sure if it takes 200 miles to reset the codes but It's a good baseline for anyone who has the same inconvenience in the future. I know I should have let the ECU reset itself, for the loose gas cap, but I didn't have time to wait for the CEL to turn off. I wound up waiting anyway. Like I said before, live and learn.

Kirstie_H · May 2004

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

c_hunter · May 2004

On my WRX, I was able to tap into the fuse panel. One unused fuse had constant 12V (it was for a rear power outlet on a wagon, but I have a sedan). I used the radio fuse to get a switched 12V. If you have a multitester, you can figure out which blade of the fuse is "after" the fuse (this is the one you want). Then, you can make a fuse tap out of thin brass that clips over the appropriate fuse blade. Wires can be soldered to this tap, and you can use electrical tape or heat shrink tubing to insulate any exposed metal.

Alternately, if you can get to the radio or clock, both of those harnesses contain constant and switched 12V lines. The radio harness has plenty of spare juice, but I would not want to draw too much current from the clock lines.

Craig

psfod3 · May 2004

I have a 03 Forester with 49000 miles when I apply the brakes when the car is going over 65mph I sometimes get alot of shake in the steering wheel. I assume the roters are warped. All the dealers in my area (N.J.) want around $225 for pads and resurfacing the discs. This seems a bit high. Is there anything out of the norm on subaru brakes that should concern me if I choose to just let my local repair shop do the brakes for half the price.

c_hunter · May 2004

Nope, the brakes are pretty standard. Just make sure they use good quality pads, perhaps even the OEM pads. Many people run into problems with aftermarket pads, they may make too much dust, wear down quickly, etc...

I've always had good luck with the Subaru OEM pads.

BTW, rotors are not that expensive either -- you could potentially buy new rotors instead of having the old ones turned.

If you do get the rotors turned, try to find a shop with an on-car lathe, it does a much better job. If they have to take the rotors off to use a standard lathe, you may as well just install new rotors.

Craig

edunnett · May 2004

I just got a price quote for my husbands truck to have discs resurfaced and pads replaced. Resurfacing the rotors should be around $100 but that reduces the thickness of the rotors and makes them more prone to future warping. If you plan to keep the car beyond the next 20K miles, maybe replacing the rotors is the way to go. On my husbands truck they say the rotors don't cost much at $80 each (labor not included). To replace the two front rotors and brake pads with labor it would cost me about $350. I like your $225 price quote much better! :-)

rochcom · May 2004

I had the check engine light come on a few days ago. Since I am always very careful about tightening the gas cap, I assumed it was some other problem. I went to the dealer where I was told that it was an exhaust gas recirculation problem, probably a bad valve. They charged $36 (1/2 hour) labor to diagnose and wanted another hour and $72 to fix. I did not have time, but since I am scheduled for other service on Monday, told them to do it then. Yesterday, the light reset itself. I realized that I had lent the car to my son, who had filled the tank. Hmmmmm.

I have the Turanza LS/Ts on my '98 S and they have been great. 31,000 miles and less than 1/2 worn. Excellent rain traction and better in snow than any tire I have ever had except Nokian dedicated snow tires. They seem a little squirmy when new because of very deep tread, but feel much better in time. They increase steering effort a little.

once_for_all · May 2004

up my XS today. 409.6 miles, 15.063 gallons, 27.19 mpg on MT. 80/20 highway city.

John

samiam_68 · May 2004

What it costs to fill up an Expedition or a Hummer.... probably need a home equity loan.

sarakay · May 2004

I just got back from taking my new Forester XS on its first road trip and am so pleased with it. The journey was from the flatlands of NJ to the hills of western PA and back. It did great on the hills and there was plenty of power for merging in on the interstates. I'm very impressed with the ride - if any of you folks have bumped along on the patches and potholes of PA's route 80, you know what I mean!

On the way back I calced my mileage. Did 50 miles on two-laners and 325 miles on interstates, and got 30.5 miles per gallon. That's much better than I expected, especially with the auto transmission.

BTW gas in rural western PA was $2.069 for regular; here in central NJ it is $1.939. I think the difference is in the amount of state tax.

Sara

ateixeira · May 2004

We got 26.5 mpg going to the beach. Our friends drove a Suburban and while they didn't calculate mileage they spent a full $80 to fill up the tank, ouch!

My brakes are totally quiet, original pads at 62k miles. If those squeek it might be the pads are glazed. You can have them scuffed and then re-do the break-in, but I'd have the seller do that before I bought the vehicle.

As for re-painting? That's hard to do well. Expensive if done properly. For a 2003, you might as well buy a new 2004, which are being discounted since the '05s are on the way. I bet in the long run it'll cost you less to go with a 2004.

-juice

c_hunter · May 2004

I do know what PA roads are like! Thanks for the report, sounds like you made a good choice!

Craig

kens · May 2004

Nice find. The website requires an account to view the documents, however. Would you care to provide a synposis of what it reads?

Ken

edunnett · May 2004

The site does require a login and a subscription to view docs on line. Or you can purchase docs one by one for delivery by mail. I'm waiting for the doc to arrive by mail. I will let y'all know what I find about window gussets then. :-)
e

psfod3 · May 2004

I have a 03' Forester with 49,000 miles and the original tires. At this point If I had to use my spare tire, and did not want to be concerned with any problems due to one tire being bigger than the others, till I got my tire fixed, it would make sense to just disconnect the AWD system. Is there any easy way to do this and turn it back to AWD after getting the flat fixed.

dcm61 · May 2004

If you have a manual transmission, you can't disconect the AWD. With automatics, you place a fuse (any amperage) in the FWD fuse holder which I believe is inside the fuse box that's under the hood beside the washer tank.

DaveM

dnestr · May 2004

I can't believe my ears! If it's so easy, why don't they put this option as a saloon button right in the factory? Some thrifty people of the forum will appreciate their new MPG in this case :-)

lfdal · May 2004

As I recall, this is generally regarded as not a good idea for other than short term purposes. It seems to me that we had a discussion about it quite a while back on the forum.

Subaru does mention it in the owner's manual, but doesn't recommend running if FWD for longer than necessary - Mike / Juice / anyone else smarter than me (wait, not that many people) want to go into the technical issues re stress on the differentials, altered handling characteristics, etc?

Larry

paisan · May 2004

Essentially you'll burn up your center diffy if you run it in FWD mode for extended periods of time. The design is not such that it's meant to put 100% power to the front wheels at all times. Also you will get worse milage than if you have it in AWD mode. (similar to if you pulled the spark plug wires on 2 cylinders)

-mike

tazereli · May 2004

I think the fuel mileage thing is a moot point since I believe the auto foresters put about 90% of the engines power to the front wheels anyway (under ideal conditions). If I am just blowing smoke please correct me.

Kyle

dnestr · May 2004

Thanks alot Mike. It's brief and to the point as usual. But as far as I know the electronically managed clutch distributes engine power among axles on AT models. It follows that the removed fuse = skidding of the rear wheels when all the power is going to the front wheels. Is this a correct guess?

joseph50 · May 2004

2001S.
Had an annoying buzzing noise coming from behind my left ear while I drove.
Something in the pillar? Seat belt mechanism? My window or the one behind it?
It took a couple days, but found it, lower than I expected. It was that plastic popout access plate above the speaker in the rear door. Apparently some warping of the plastic prevents a tight seal.
Occasional taking it off and firm replacement takes care of things. Ah, quiet riding again.

samiam_68 · May 2004

Back to the drawing board I went.... and this is what I came up with (Version 3):

http://www.geocities.com/samiam_68/SubaruCCS/SSC_Fix.htm

I will not quit until this thing is perfect or until Subaru gets a fix of their own ;-)

paisan · May 2004

I think the fuel mileage thing is a moot point since I believe the auto foresters put about 90% of the engines power to the front wheels anyway (under ideal conditions). If I am just blowing smoke please correct me.

Kyle

Actually it's 80/20 initial split and goes up to 50/50 depending on load, acceleration, etc. Depending on your driving style you may have closer to 50/50 on a regular basis. I know that with my heavy right pedal action, my cars do not see 80/20 often.

-mike

paisan · May 2004

Thanks alot Mike. It's brief and to the point as usual. But as far as I know the electronically managed clutch distributes engine power among axles on AT models. It follows that the removed fuse = skidding of the rear wheels when all the power is going to the front wheels. Is this a correct guess?

Essentially the electronically controlled clutches will vary power to the driveshafts, not the axles, so you get a F/R split. By putting in the fuse it pulls the clutches off and sends 100% power to the front wheels, tricking the computer into thinking the rears are skidding sorta. By having the clutches not engaging or fully engaging (not sure which way it works) it puts extra stresses on the system that it wasn't designed to have for extended periods of time.

-mike

lark6 · May 2004

Actually it's 80/20 initial split and goes up to 50/50 depending on load, acceleration, etc. Depending on your driving style you may have closer to 50/50 on a regular basis. I know that with my heavy right pedal action, my cars do not see 80/20 often.

Never thought about it that way, Mike. I guess I shouldn't be so insistent on wanting to see VTD in AT equipped Foresters!

Ed

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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