Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

p0926 · July 2004

FYI the 7-speaker stereo was also standard in the 04 FXTs.

-Frank

mckeown · July 2004

My remark was to point out that the Sub-woofer in the 7 speaker package was now in the rear cargo area. I don't remember seeing it there on the 04XT. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would like to get that subwoofer alone instead of the one under the seat. (personal preference).
What I also forgot to mention was that ALL MODELS now get the cabin filter standard. They also say they are 1 inch higher.....than what? Parking my 04 next to an 05, I didn't see any difference in height.

p0926 · July 2004

Well I guess I should have said that the 7-speaker stereo including 'rear' subwoofer was also standard in the 04 FXTs.

-Frank

rsay777 · July 2004

I'm thinking about replacing the coolant in the radiator/engine now that two years has gone by on the 03X. Is it possible to get it right doing this at home. Does this require flushing the radiator? any tips are appreciated ie mixture ratio antifreeze brand, type etc etc. Thanks in advance. Bob L.

jms02050 · July 2004

Can anyone tell me if the climate control issues have been addressed in the 2005's?

c_hunter · July 2004

Typically most cars want a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water (and ideally it should be purified or distilled water, not tap water which can potentially contain all sorts of minerals). The antifreeze bottle will tell you what temperature you can go down to based on the ratio (all the coolant does is to depress the freezing point of the mixture).

How many miles on the car? I did a flush and replace on my previous Outback at 30000 miles, as per the maintenance schedule. Looking at the old coolant afterwards, however, I believe the coolant was fine and could have easily held out to 60000 miles -- it was extremely clean and the color looked good. So next time I will check/test a sample of coolant before undertaking a flush and refill.

Craig

once_for_all · July 2004

I haven't heard whether it works, but I do know that the specs on the '05 are different (it has a 7 speed fan, so we know the controls are different) according to the SOA specs on their web site.

John

edunnett · July 2004

Bob,

It's great that you want to do the flush/fill at home. You will save $60 and learn something new about your car. Very admirable :-) Any repair manual will tell you to do roughly the same procedure, which you can also find great descriptions of by doing a google search for: "do it yourself cooling system drain flush refill". Make sure you have prepared and have a way to bring your old anti-freeze to a recycling center. I use old plastic gallon jugs like you'd get if you bought water or milk in a plastic container. You may have trouble finding a coolant recycling center in your area, you may have to call around a bit to service stations and ask them where you can bring it.

I always have no trouble finding the coolant drain cock on the radiator (looks like a plastic turn-knob at the bottom of the radiator) but have yet to find my coolant drain bolt on the engine. I'd love to hear from anyone who has found that drain bold and can take a photo and send it to me!

Elissa

edunnett · July 2004

Forgot to add this little tidbit:

As for the refill, I don't see a good description on line of "burping" the system during the refill. That involves :

1) with engine off and heat knob turned on and the bleeder bolt on the engine open, fill the radiator with coolant until the fluid coming out of the bleeder bolt runs out with no bubbles.

2) When you've filled it up, run the engine with the radiator cap off until the upper radiator hose gets hot. Squeeze air out by squeezing the upper radiator hose - you will see bubbles come up through the top of the radiator cap opening. Continue to add more coolant while the engine is running and you continue burping it until it's full and no more air bubbles come up.

3) Turn the engine off and allow it to cool. Check for leaks and check the level again just to be sure.

Elissa

subearu · July 2004

That is the method my dealer used to do the coolant change on my '00 Outback last year.

Don't forget step #4 - put the radiator cap back on ;-)

-Brian

ateixeira · July 2004

Bob: I just drained and filled mine twice, at 30k and then at 60k miles. The fluid was still clean and green, FWIW. I did not do a complete flush, though.

At the bottom of the radiator you'll see a plastic screw on the passenger side to make it easy, at least on my '98. Make sure it's not hot!

Elissa: I have a pic but it's at work, and I'm off for the next two weeks. Look for the black screw on the passenger side, you should be able to find it.

-juice

rsay777 · July 2004

I'm under the impression that in addition to the cooling and antifreeze properties of the liquid in the radiator, it also acts as a lubricant for the water pump and also anti corrosive agent especially important for aluminum block engines.

So, is it more important to pay attention the length of time or the mileage between flush/fill? Bob L.

suydam · July 2004

After another bout with the dreaded Check Engine Light, and lagging performance that showed something was wrong, it seems that this time the knock sensor was bad. On our '99 Forester we have now replaced the O2 sensor and now the knock sensor as well as the coil pack. This is starting to run into money for us. I do not recall ever having to replace items like this on previous cars. Are they relatively recent, or is this a problem with Subarus? How many sensors are there? It costs about $200 to replace one. What more can I look forward to? We're fast becoming disenchanted with this car, not the least because the Check Engine Light is such a headache to detect the particular problem.

pon1 · July 2004

My 2000 Forester L had all of these and now belongs to someone else.

I think we had it real bad (at least 2 CEL incidents/year), but I also believe from the number of posts that the early model Foresters were generally bad for CEL and related sensor issues (I was told the coil died because of corrosion, but I cant verify this...). It's an annoyance under warranty that quickly becomes a money pit after warranty, and doesnt seem to ever stop once it starts (at least in my experience in 4 years and 100,000 km of ownership).

Maybe the techies can comment on if there is any good reason why failures may continue to affect indiv cars after sensors have been replaced, and if there is any preventative maintenance we can do.

Of immediate importance to me - any comments on the next gen Foresters (03-), particularly the FXT as I have promised wife that CELs will not happen any more (or this will be the last Sube in our garage).

JP

p0926 · July 2004

I had 2 CELs in the first 10k of ownership of my 01 Forester but they were both for the same thing, a bad O2 sensor (apparently there was a bad batch built so the replacement also failed). However, after that initial problem, everything was fine until I traded it at 65k. Well I did have one other CEL but that was because I didn't tighten the gas cap sufficiently (once tightened, it went away after a day or two). My 04 FXT now has 12,5k and has been perfect thus far.

-Frank

leo2633 · July 2004

JP,

My 2001 Forester S now has about 94K miles. So far, it has had 4 O2 sensors replaced, the coil pack, ignition wires, spark plugs (wires and plugs went bad shortly after I had already replaced them at 60K, due to the bad coil pack, according to the dealer), catalytic converter, wheel bearing and head gasket. The clutch was replaced (due to "judder") 4 times. Some items were replaced under warranty, and some out-of-warranty costs were shared with Subaru as a show of "good faith", which was much appreciated. However, I've laid out the cash for one of the clutches, the wheel bearing and the catalytic converter. Even when the items were covered under warranty, the inconvenience also came at a cost, as you already know.

We also owned a 2002 Outback, which was bought new, and had even worse problems, and was replcaed at 16K miles with an '03 Outback. Except for one clutch replaced at 7K due to "judder", the '03 has been great so far (knock on wood).

We've decided that we'll probably give Subaru one more try for our next new vehicle. However, that will depend on what else goes wrong between now and then.

Len

pon1 · July 2004

Len, I thinks we had this same conversation a few months back, our Foresters had/have near-identical historys (inc the head gaskets). I was trying to generate answers to the previous poster's question on CELs and I was wondering how newer cars were performing. One of the reasons we are going with the FXT is I assume that it's motor and associated electronic gizmos are very different from the N/A 2.5l which I have to some degree lost faith in after a short lived Leg GT and four years with the Forester L. I have not heard anything scary yet about the Sti-derived 2.5T, which should be overengineered for the FXT application. Still love subies, though I come under presssure to look at something else from a reliability standpoint from the wider family (who love Toyotas, as boring as they are they seem to go forever without issue). JP

lark6 · July 2004

I have had the head gaskets fail on my '00, and I have also had three rear wheel bearings fail. Subaru has made good on all and I've had no failures since. I do feel a little uneasy about the requirement to add coolant conditioner with every cooling system flush. It seems to me that the head gasket repair should be sufficient enough not to require what amounts to a can of stop-leak being added each time.

I have never had a CEL appear (watch me jinx myself on this) in over 4 1/2 years and 67K miles of ownership, nor have I had a knock sensor or coil pack fail. I did have the oxygen sensor replaced under recall notice, but it had not failed.

One of the reasons we are going with the FXT is I assume that it's motor and associated electronic gizmos are very different from the N/A 2.5l....I have not heard anything scary yet about the Sti-derived 2.5T, which should be overengineered for the FXT application.

That's another factor in my choice of a Forester XT, but it's not the primary factor. Honestly I've been pretty happy with my '00; I just want the added oomph from the XT - I can't deny it!

Ed

pon1 · July 2004

Ed - of course more scoot is the real reason - to be honest I want to own something a little wild right now since next time around hybrids will be mainstream, and gas will cost more than beer. JP

ozman62 · July 2004

from the other end of the bell curve. My '98 L hasn't thrown a CEL in the 70K km I've owned it for. It's at 135K km now, and I was thinking that maybe it was burned out.. except it illuminates each time I start the car. FWIW, the previous owners records indicated that the clutch had been changed under warrantee at ~ 25K km, replacement is still good, though exhibits occasional shudder if I'm sloppy on an engagement. When I bought the car at 65K km, the left rear bearing was howling, I chiselled the guy down, then got it repaired under warrantee. Hee, hee. No problems since that weren't self-inflicted, save for the overhead clock burning out, a good excuse for a trip to the Subaru graveyard. I really like my Forester, but I do keep a pretty close eye on that 'ol temperature gauge.
My 2 cents, Owen

a_l_hubcaps · July 2004

My parents just put a down payment on a new 2004 Forester X. It's white with the dark gray interior. Accessories are: auto-dimming mirror, rear bumper protector and armrest. We'll be picking up the car tomorrow.

It seems like the Forester has a pretty good reputation overall. Are there any particular issues we should watch out for?

By the way, other vehicles we looked at were the Mitsu Outlander (hard to get safety features, buzzy engine), Pontiac Vibe (A/C doesn't blow cold) and Subaru Impreza (too expensive for what you get). The Forester was the most expensive of all of these, but it's also bigger and has more safety features. Hopefully it will be a little more reliable than our 1995 Windstar GL, which we've had for 10 years, 84,000 miles...and 2 head gasket jobs.

-Andrew L

edunnett · July 2004

Len,
Oh my gosh! That's a load of work done on one car! My '01 Forester S also had a decent amount of warranty work: first gear and syncho, rear diff, axle seals, water pump, oil pump, leaking piston seals... I sold it at 54K because I had bad feelings about the 5/60 warranty expiration approaching. Everything had been covered up to that point.

Your catalytic converter - when did that go? You know it's covered up to 80K right? The EPA mandates that the cat and other "major emissions components" be warranteed by the factory for 80K miles.

Either way, you are more patient then me at still buying Subarus, that's a world of bad experience! I've had one wonderful Subaru - '84 GL that I sold when it hit 200K miles and one dink - the '01 Forester S that I dumped at 54K. Just hoping my '04 Forester XT turns out to be more like the first one!

elissa

leo2633 · July 2004

elissa,

My catalytic converter was replaced a few months ago at about 90K miles, and cost me nearly $600.00. Despite the troubles I've had with this car, I hate to admit that I still love it. It has the best balance of what I need in a vehicle. With all the problems it HAS had, it has never left me stranded (unlike our '02 Outback did on several occasions). I just wish it was nearly as trouble free as my '92 Sentra. 240K trouble free miles and counting.

I figure that I've made up for all those Subaru owners that have had zero problems with their vehicles, and that the law of averages has to be on my side when I buy my next Subaru.

Len

joybell · July 2004

you will never get the quality you got yesterday. That goes for just about everything, like a pair of gloves, farm feed mixing equipment, screen doors, hibachis, tents, duct tape, plastic food wrap, freezer bags and work boots, being among the items I bought recently that are inferior in quality compared to what I have been used to.

schrack · July 2004

I'm getting the adjustments down on my "new" 2001 Forester and still have the sun in my eyes when I move my visor to the side. Does anyone know of any replacement visors that give more shade to short drivers while keeping the seat not too high? As well, is there any adjustment to the steering wheel besides moving it up and down? I was hoping to level it out a bit more so the wheel lay flatter than its near vertical position now. Any possibilities? ~ Susan

mckeown · July 2004

Len, I have now owned 7 Subaru's form a 78DL 2dr to the current 04 Forester XS 5sp. I did have an 02 Forester MT for 2yrs 11 months with 58k. It was the most troublesome car I ever owned (search the forum) 7 front oxygen sensors, 1 rear, popping while shifting (mild backfire), clutch shutter, various leaks, constant CEL's, and the worst piston slap the region rep ever heard, still slapping a hr later, but still would not authorize a repair for. That was the last straw. But call me any name you want, I had such good service from my previous Suby's, and the Forester still fits out needs, I traded (1st time I ever traded a car) it for a new 04 XS. It is a completely different vehicle. It has the same drive train, but it is wholly different, better by far. Hard to believe it should be the same. As my wife said, the 02 must have been built on a Friday the 13th by other than Subaru workers. PS..Best mileage on the 02 was 28.8, the worst tank on the 04 has been 27.4 , best being 34.2 last week from NJ to Hartford....60-65, no A/C. This is the car I expected to purchase 3 yrs ago.
My $.02

p0926 · July 2004

Michael- I'm impressed. I think you've got the new record. That car is definitely a keeper!

-Frank

leo2633 · July 2004

Michael,

Sounds like you got the car I expected to purchase, also!

Len

schrack · July 2004

I'm getting the adjustments down on my "new" 2001 Forester and still have the sun in my eyes when I move my visor to the side. Does anyone know of any replacement visors that give more shade to short drivers while keeping the seat not too high? As well, is there any adjustment to the steering wheel besides moving it up and down? I was hoping to level it out a bit more so the wheel lay flatter than its near vertical position now. Any possibilities? ~ Susan

ezshift5 · July 2004

...all: 34 MPG. Head and shoulders above the rest. '05 FX MT currently heading the short list for sucking up my Naval Reserve savings

...best, ez

ateixeira · July 2004

suydam: some joke that the best fix for a check engine light is a small piece of black electrical tape - to cover it! OBD2 is so strict that often they're triggered for something minor that doesn't affect driveability.

The catch? In MD, at least, you'll fail the biannual emissions inspection.

Andrew: welcome, nice to see a familiar face from another thread. Remember the alloy wheel thread from a while back?

Guess they'll love the steel wheels, I know you prefer those.

34.2 mpg?! Down hill the whole way? WOW!

While no vehicle is perfect, what I can say for Subaru is that they have stepped up to the plate with each issue I've seen reported here since I joined in 1999.

Clutch chatter? Many have new clutches, even though the issue didn't seem to affect longevity.

Head gaskets? 8/100 warranty extension plus they treat it for free, can't complain about that.

Wheel bearings? Again, covered under warranty plus they changed the design in 2003 and the problem is now rare.

Check engine lights? O2 sensors replaced for free, plus make sure you had that recall performed if yours was affected, that made them less sensitive.

You read the past 20 posts and might get scared but IMO Subaru does stand behind their product.

-juice

p0926 · July 2004

Susan- You might be able to buy a clip-on visor extension. Try a auto parts store or Wally World. Although I'm curious why you don't want a higher seating position. And sorry but the steering wheel's only adjustment is for tilt. However, if there was another adjustment, it would undoubtedly be telescoping which still wouldn't do you any good as I gather you're seeking more of a bus-like angle? If so, I can't say you'll get much support for that point of view :-)

Sorry I couldn't give you much in the way of good news.

-Frank

leo2633 · July 2004

I agree with juice about Subaru standing behind their product, to a point. Under warranty, no problem. Recently out of warranty, not usually a problem. However, if you had all of the last 4 issues juice mentioned (clutch, head gaskets, wheel bearings and check engine lights leading to faulty oxygen sensors, coil packs and catalytic converters, as in my case), you would not be happy to have to take the car in for repairs, even if it was covered under warranty. You'd be even LESS happy if you had to pay out of pocket for any of them, again, as in the case of my Forester. Then, if you had a car so bad that it had to be replaced within 7 months and 16K miles (like our '02 Outback), you'd probably be even more jaded than I am.

With all that said, however, I'll still likely buy another Subaru, since I feel that their vehicles offer the best combination of the features I want and need in a vehicle.

Len

suydam · July 2004

I agree with Len. Rather than pretending it's not a problem or not a big deal, I would like to focus on why it happens in some cars and not others. I know lots of folks have Subarus and are very happy with them. I want to be happy with mine. I see on the Nissan Maxima board the same thing -- some people are having inordinate amounts of CEL and sensor problems, others, like myself (so far anyway!!) have none. I'd like automakers to address why this happens, and if there is any kind of preventive maintenance we can do once it does? Or do we just have bad luck? I think it's important to address this fact because people like us WANT to like our Subarus if only we weren't spending so much money and time on them! We like them because other things that have gone wrong in other cars have not -- no battery, starter or muffler problems, for example, and because they fit our needs as a vehicle in ways that other cars don't.

edunnett · July 2004

Friday I had my honda to a shop to have the cooling fan motor switch replaced (the OEM switch was frozen on the radiator and I couldn't remove it). The shop replaced the switch and says they tested the system for proper operation and all was good. However, my temp gauge shot up to nearly red zone after I got about 5 miles away from the shop. I had it towed back to the shop and verified my suspicion after the engine had cooled: there was no coolant in the reservoir tank or up to the top of the radiator. I suspect they didn't fill it up at all after draining it for the switch replacement. The system holds 5 quarts and the radiator consumes about 3 of those quarts so I assume I'd driven 7 miles at 40% of system capacity. I just want to know if anyone else would be concerned about engine or radiator damage given that it was so low and likely has lots of air in the system now. I think I drove too short a time and didn't let the engine get hot enough to really do a number but I'm debating how much hell to give this shop (which is extremely reputable in my area) on Monday when they return to work. Any thoughts?

Also, I have drained and refilled the radiator several times in the last couple weeks but have not drained the engine of coolant (I have trouble finding and accessing the drain bolt). Anyone know how much the coolant circulates between the radiator and the engine? I'm wondering if I still need to drain the engine of coolant or if it's cycled through enough that it's all clean-ish.

Thanks!
Elissa

p0926 · July 2004

I don't know if Subarus are more susceptible than other makes to CELs but they're certainly not Subaru specific. I've had several rental cars with the CEL on. From what I gather, by far the leading culprit of CELs is not tightening the gas cap sufficiently.

-Frank

edunnett · July 2004

yup, my husband's dodge popped up with the CEL just before we wanted to sell it. i told him first off, "make sure you tightened the gas cap" then he took it to the shop that just serviced it who saw it was throwing an evap code and THEY tightened the gas cap, took it to a more sophisticated shop, THEY tightened the gas cap... still the CEL... So they ran a diagnostic of the whole system, cost us a couple hundred dollars and guess what - the gas cap was damaged. No wonder, with all that tightening! so we got a $300 gas cap and had no more CEL.
*sigh*
elissa

asplundh · July 2004

I just read that jd power rated Subaru service as below average. I would definitely agree with this rating after being told many times that my break squeal problem is "normal" on my 02 Forester L.

a_l_hubcaps · July 2004

ateixeira-

Wheels: Yes, ours has the steel wheels. The full-face design makes them look a lot like alloys...I can't imagine why anyone would want to pay extra for the alloys on this car, which look basically the same.

We have the car now and we haven't found any initial defects, so that's a good start (better than either of our last two new cars). The build quality seems pretty good. Also, I was surprised to see that the engine is fairly accessible and not covered up by a big plastic thing -- I hate it when they make it hard to get at anything under the hood.

-Andrew L

pon1 · July 2004

Anyone any experience with alternatives to the OEM Forester dog barrier. I had one in my 2000 Forester, I need a different one for the forthcoming FXT as it has the moon roof. However, I would like something that doesnt involve drilling into the roof liner, can be used with the cargo cover and can be removed more easily. The new OEM 05 Legacy and OB have these features, but I believe the recent Forester design is unchanged from 2000. I was even thinking about a nylon mesh barrier as the rear seats/headrests will likely keep the dog from hitting us in the event of an accident, the barrier is simply to keep him from trying to jump over.

JP

lfdal · July 2004

They changed the design for the 03 Foresters - one for moon roof, one for no moon roof. No drilling required - pop out two pins in the headliner, screw in two brackets where the pins were, and you're done. You do still lose the cargo cover however. I moved the one from my 03XS to 04 XT with no problems - just reinstalled the original pins and I was done. If you leave the roof brackets in place, it uninstalls / reinstalls in about 5 minutes.

My wife's 03 OBW dog grate lets her keep the cargo cover, which is a good thing. On the other hand, I think the Forester's will take more of an impact since its firmly anchored in the cargo cover's receivers.
I like having it in the back when I'm hauling stuff with the seat backs up, since it will take a good hit before anything comes sailing at the back of my head.

HTH

Larry

pon1 · July 2004

Thanks. Sounds better than the pre 03 roof mounting design, which consisted of two large ugly L brackets that attached to the roof through the headliner and to the barrier using screws. Looked like an afterthought Friday afternoon solution.

How far down do the new roof brackets protude as the old ones if left in place with the barrier removed restricted cargo capacity, when loading large items with the seats down.

I have to say between 1998 and 2005 they could have come up with a quick release design that allows the barrier and cargo cover to work together. How many Sube wagon owners have dogs, must be a large %.....

307web · July 2004

Remote start could be good for dog owners.

You would be able to leave a dog inside with the engine running and A/C on while you make a quick errand without locking your keys inside or worrying about theft.

leo2633 · July 2004

Or, just get a pit bull and stop worrying about theft!

Len

luvmuhforester · July 2004

Hi all, my Java Pearl Black 2004 Forester 2.5XS is now 7 days old and I am so glad that I chose to buy it after my 97 Dodge Stratus died. This Subie drives great, maneuvers the turns very well and pretty much comfortable. I am waiting to try out the AWD and the cold weather package in the New England snow.
However, after driving a few American cars in the past, i guess there are some small features that could be improved - one, the power buttons could be slicker, two, automatic door locks - while in motion it would be nicer to have the car doors automatically locked and three,(I guess a minor thing but those who spend some time sitting idle in a parking lot while waiting for their partners (who are shopping for example) will understand)the radio turns off along with the ignition.
Other than these, I am loving every moment behind the wheel, a little tough at times, since my wife loves to drive it as well

c_hunter · July 2004

Just turn the key to the ACC position and the radio will be powered. Actually, that's they way every car I have owned (foreign and American) has worked. I guess I'm not sure what you are describing.

Craig

bluesubie · July 2004

My aftermarket alarm has the auto lock at a certain rpm feature. My parents' Lincoln has that as well as the radio and power outlet having power at all times. Even without the key. Haven't seen that on a Japanese car.

Luvmuh - In the Edmunds Subaru Crew section there is a thread for Suggestions for Subaru that Subaru of America montiors, fyi.

Congrats!

-Dennis

luvmuhforester · July 2004

Hi Craig,
You did get my point about the radio power and you are also quite correct about turning the key to ACC to keep the radio on. However, I drove a Chevy Malibu for a month and it had this nice feature - the radio was on even if I turned off the ignition - I guess I just got used to it.
Happy driving!

grahampeters · July 2004

G'day

I found myself in a hire car recently that allowed the radio to be switched bak on for one hour with the ignition off. A sensible compromise preventing the battery going flat. Any longer than that and you relaly should have found a motel!

Cheers

Graham

leo2633 · July 2004

Good one, Graham!

Len

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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