Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Got a link?

    I see some from back in January, like this one from the Christian Science Monitor:

    Scientists are puzzled, but the phenomenon seems to fit the latest global-warming models

    (and thanks for the diversion from the Poinsettia Bowl - TCU has all the stats going for them. :sick: )
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Be safe this Christmas. Let someone else test the thickness of the ICE... These people were lucky..

    http://www.newsminer.com/photos/2008/dec/22/6380/
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,424
    "...I'd dump my 10 year old Quest for $4000..."

    The only trouble is what could you replace it with for $4000? Many people who are driving around old clunkers are doing so because they can't afford anything else. Take all the clunkers off the road and you would price those folks out of the market.

    Still, if I could get $4K for my 24 year-old Ford I could probably afford to upgrade to a nice 15 year-old one. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    This suggests strong climate connections and feedbacks among sea, ice, and air in the Southern Ocean that are poorly understood.

    And then the article goes on to make predictions based on that, and say that's what the IPCC's model predicts! LOL! :D

    If nothing else this shows the arrogance of scientists, and the pressure they are under to make some sort of statement, show some progress, and vie for preeminence in thier field of Climatology . I guess it's better for them to "hand in crap supported by carefully chosen data" and survive professionally for another 20 years, rather than admit they are many decades away from knowing all the variables and their relative impacts on the climate.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    When they went from WINTER, SPRING SUMMER or FALL, actually the predictive value falls down when they try to turn it (climate change ) into rocket science, when rocket science it is NOT !! :D
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,424
    As I was sitting here worried that Santa was destined to drown with the polar bears I heard a story that really brought me down.

    It seems the surgeon general has determined that Santa Claus is "too fat" and therefore a bad example to children. I know that some of you will say this is just more politically correct nonsense but just think how many kids might be planning to become obese, dress in funny clothes and do break-ins on multiple homes all because of this bad example. :mad:

    Worst of all, HE SMOKES A PIPE!!!!!!. (unless he has a doctor's note to smoke that medical wacky weed, in which case, never mind.) ;)

    MERRY CHRISTMAS.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Greenpeace saves Santa. Too bad they are warping little minds with mindless drivel.

    This would be a Funny clip if it was not such a big lie:

    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/12/21/greenpeace-climate-cha- nge-ad-north-pole-melting-santa-rescued
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Wait till they assess methane gas/carbon offset taxes for each fat polar bear.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,424
    "...if it was not such a big lie..."

    I liked to dramatic-heroic music. Truth is they would probably throw santa overboard when they found out how much methane his flatulent reindeer are emitting.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Now let's say that the creationist's friends in the news media label everyone who disagrees as a "denier" and dismisses everything they have to say.

    Old Farmer, your post referenced above still has the alarmists stumped. Not one reply or reference to this post from any of them. I guess they folded their tents and went home. Great post. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The first, on May 21, headed "Climate change threat to Alpine ski resorts" , reported that the entire Alpine "winter sports industry" could soon "grind to a halt for lack of snow". The second, on December 19, headed "The Alps have best snow conditions in a generation" , reported that this winter's Alpine snowfalls "look set to beat all records by New Year's Day".

    Easily one of the most important stories of 2008 has been all the evidence suggesting that this may be looked back on as the year when there was a turning point in the great worldwide panic over man-made global warming. Just when politicians in Europe and America have been adopting the most costly and damaging measures politicians have ever proposed, to combat this supposed menace, the tide has turned in three significant respects.

    First, all over the world, temperatures have been dropping in a way wholly unpredicted by all those computer models which have been used as the main drivers of the scare. Last winter, as temperatures plummeted, many parts of the world had snowfalls on a scale not seen for decades. This winter, with the whole of Canada and half the US under snow, looks likely to be even worse. After several years flatlining, global temperatures have dropped sharply enough to cancel out much of their net rise in the 20th century.

    Ever shriller and more frantic has become the insistence of the warmists, cheered on by their army of media groupies such as the BBC, that the last 10 years have been the "hottest in history" and that the North Pole would soon be ice-free – as the poles remain defiantly icebound and those polar bears fail to drown. All those hysterical predictions that we are seeing more droughts and hurricanes than ever before have infuriatingly failed to materialise.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/3982101/2008-was- -the-year-man-made-global-warming-was-disproved.html

    Well Big AL it was worth a try. And you got a $100 million for doing absolutely nothing over the last 7 years. A feat many televangelist would be hard pressed to beat.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The Obama folks could not be seriously thinking Gore would accept a $208,000 government position after marketing global warming at 14.3 M a year?
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,424
    "...Well Big Al it was worth a try..."

    I wonder, in a few years, when it finally sinks in to the heads of the masses that they have been the victims of a scam that makes Maddoff's Ponzi scheme look pale in comparison, who will take the blame?

    Will the public rail against the media that spread the lies to get better ratings? Will there be a backlash against the grant whore enviro groups and scientists? Or will they demand the heads of the gutless politicians who sold the economy down the river to get a few votes.

    My guess is they will find some way to blame it on Bush. :sick:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My guess is they will find some way to blame it on Bush

    You are probably right. And he was one of the few that did not grab onto the carbon credit taxing scheme and run with it.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "You have to think that global warming denialist Matt Drudge must be getting desperate when he touts a column by Christopher "White asbestos is harmless" Booker arguing that winter has disproved man-made global warming:"

    Study the graph and you too can be a Climate Data Analyst. :shades:

    Deltoid
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I love this chart:

    image

    Shows a definite warming trend. Something is making the air warmer.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Looking at the air temp chart raises questions. Why if the ocean is 80% of the contribution to global temperatures, is it not included in the graph. It gets back to temperature gauge placement.

    I hate to get all logical on Booker, but none of this has anything to do with a disproof of AGW. Even if you accept his premise that we can't afford to reduce emissions, it does not follow that emissions are not causing warming.

    Nor does his argument prove that man is the major cause of the changes in Climate. My contention is now and has been since day one. If man is the cause of climate change, that change would be going up in a linear fashion. I think it is safe to say we have created more GHG this year than last around the globe. And more last year than the year before. Yet the global temperatures are not going all up as would be logical.

    Even if the scientist have made a case for the Global Temperatures rising over the last 28 years. It is not in step with the rise in man made GHG. Leading me to believe as others do, that we are a very insignificant part of Climate Change.

    I think the desperation is on the part of the CC followers. They have no practical solution to cutting GHG. Yet they burn tons of carbon flying around the world having parties, conferences, concerts etc, trying to get the masses to buy into their theory. What can the masses do. You think the billions of Chinese and Indians are going to cut back their progress after a hundred years of watching the rest of the World living it up. Do you think Americans will buy into more than a pittance of cutting back on what they produce in the course of trying to survive in a hostile economy. I am just too much of a Pragmatist to buy into this whole idea.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I like this one as it shows the truth just the plain truth. Not some optimized chart that cherry picked the dates to make the case for GW/CC.

    image
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,424
    "...Something is making the air warmer..."

    Yeah, like the fact that the thermometer is now hanging in front of a sky-scraper instead of uncle Jeb's barn like it was in 1920.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    That is correct. It is well known in urban planning circles about the climate change (in the vicinity of high rise to sky-scrapers) effect on the local temperatures and weather. It can be on the order of 30 degrees more.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is all part of a grand plan to control the masses. Making people feel guilty has been used forever to gain political power. Gore tried during the 1990s and failed. There is new hope with a liberal Congress and President to get their way. Push all the little people into high rise apartments and let them go to work on a stinking bus. Force the rest of US into a Yugo sized piece of crap car. All done by GUILT. To save the planet. For what? Is my question. If it is not for the enjoyment of man what good is the planet? There is NOTHING enjoyable about driving a Yugo cross country to visit the Grand Canyon.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary, PLEASE, can a few of the DRAMATICS be reduced here?

    Yugo? Really? Are they even for sale anymore? If there ANYONE out there saying "drive the smallest car available?" No. Drive the least polluting car that makes sense for your family and fits your budget and needs.

    "Push all the little people into high rise apartments?" Is anyone anywhere doing that? That was an urban restructuring plan from the 1960s. No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore.

    "Stinking Bus?" Have you ridden a city bus in a major city LATELY? I have - in San Fran and in Phoenix. And in neither case was the bus "stinky."

    And the "Grand Canyon" is not nearly as "Grand" as it used to be. Pollution has diminished the views. I was there in March 2008.

    So let's not get silly. "Control the masses" is ridiculous as a statement and totally misaligned with American public policy.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    It is hardly dramatics !!

    I want a turbo diesel SUV that gets 30-40 mpg!! THEY STILL do not let them in!!!!! However they allow flex fuel E85 suv's that gets 25% less than the like model gassers 20 mpg or 15 mpg or less !!! The numbers belie the realities !!!

    ..."No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore. "...

    Well a lot of it is policy !!! It is literally improbable to build a single family house in this municipality. Do you want to build a 500 unit condo/apt complex, high rise low rise? It is almost no problem !!! What do you think has greater impacts a family of 4 or 500 familes of 4?

    Indeed it has been the opposing views that has served as the reality tests/counter points for some of these uncorrelated hypothesis', aka dogmas.

    I just saw a PBS program (Private Foundation sponsored) on "Swimming the Hudson River" . While I am sure it was unintentional, it was not a good graphic or commentary on the effects of the 300 year NYC experiences !!! Seems like they could sent NYC to the moon so to speak and it would still take the surrounding areas 100s of years to heal. Emotionally, it was depressing to watch.

    We went to GC, AZ in the late Aug- mid Sep time frame. It was absolutely GLORIOUS, sans the ride there. It rained literally cats and dogs (4 inches in 6 hours) all the way from Las Vegas, NV, but when it was time to take the 22 passenger plane ride, God did the Moses routine and the weather factors coalesced into some of the most spectacular views !! It was a very bumpy ride (even the two pilots held onto their hand rails), but totally spectacular !!
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Something is making the air warmer.

    Something is making the continents move too. ;) That chart that you posted is just one of a bunch of temperature spikes up and down on the chart gagrice posted. It fits the natural pattern of the past thousands of years.

    If you want to know what controls the temperature of the Earth, just consider the differences in night temp, cloudy day temperature, and then temp. in the sun. The sun's energy is the main effect on any planet in the solar system.

    To put things in perspective for you, you claim all the man-made GHG's over a century are part of a 1C rise in temperature. When the sun sets or rises the temperature changes 20C within hours.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    can a few of the DRAMATICS be reduced here?

    I think three exclamation points qualify as well!!! :P

    On the sea and carbon dioxide:

    "The worries begin at the surface, where an atmosphere newly laden with man-made carbon dioxide interacts with the briny. The sea has thus become more acidic, making life difficult, if not impossible, for marine organisms with calcium-carbonate shells or skeletons."

    The Economist
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,424
    "...Yugo?...Are they even for sale any more?...the least polluting car that makes sense for your family and fits your budget..."

    They just stopped production this year. Hurry, there might be a few left. With all the taxes you and your friends are proposing, we'll be lucky if we can even afford a Yugo.

    "...No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore..."

    No one is preaching it because it was a disaster from a human standpoint. Just because no one advocates stuffing people 12 to a room doesn't mean it won't be necessary if you take away all other options.

    "...Stinking bus? Have you ridden a city bus in a major city LATELY?..."

    I think he was referring to the passengers, not the bus itself. On the other hand, I've read reports by "advocates" who say having school children ride on a school bus for an hour is causing a dramitic rise in asthma. I for one don't want to see people flopping on the ground like fish out of water.

    "...And the "Grand Canyon" is not nearly as "Grand" as it use to be..."

    I can't speak on that since I've never been there but how can the Grand Canyon be more polluted now with our cleaner cars and our manufacturing base moved to China than it was in the early 60's when cars didn't even have PCV valves? Are you sure that folks aren't confusing naturally occurring haze from moisture in the air with pollution? In a dry climate like that a little humidity could make a dramatic change in visibility,

    "..."Control the masses" is ridiculous..."

    Controlling the population is the basis for exerting power with any ruling elite from the Romans to the Communists. Some do it through terror, some do it through nationalism and some do it through guilt (don't you want to save the planet?). But make no mistake, those who crave power will seek to control your behavior.

    I once took a course in graduate school on community organizing. The professor stressed controlling the people in a neighborhood as the basis for accomplishing your goals. Control was so important in his mind that it was OK to make up lies in order to get people all riled up and driven to action.

    I asked him if he thought a cause loses it's moral standing if it is based on lies. He answered that every great movement in history was based on lies and I should "grow up".

    I guess I still haven't grown up. :(

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."I once took a course in graduate school on community organizing. The professor stressed controlling the people in a neighborhood as the basis for accomplishing your goals. Control was so important in his mind that it was OK to make up lies in order to get people all riled up and driven to action.

    I asked him if he thought a cause loses it's moral standing if it is based on lies. He answered that every great movement in history was based on lies and I should "grow up".

    I guess I still haven't grown up. "...

    It is truly part of the foundations; since before the republic was born (circa 1776). It seems that in his quest to beat John Adams for the US presidency, one of the founding fathers, the (romanticist) penner of THE CONSTITUTION no less, Thomas Jefferson engaged political press" smear a cists" to pen lies, innuendos, etc. against another founding father mover and shaker, John Adams, President and father of John Q. Adams, another US president. Seems it worked, as Adams' (the elder) second term BID was superceded by Thomas Jefferson's first term election. :blush: This was the "aristocratic" ilk triumph over the so called "common man" ilk. It was the triumph of those that ADVOCATED war with FRANCE over peace with the same. The advocates of war actually benefitted FROM the peace. The principle that will be hard to over come is Sun Tzu's or attributed to him anyway: ... "No country, has ever benefitted from a protracted war".... app 4 BCE.

    Me thinks the global warm a cists views will be treated by history as one of the rallying mechanisms of du jour. It will be seen as a quaint concept in 50 to 100 years.... that is if the Frenchmen's Notradomus and the Mayan Civiliations 2012 predictions do not come true. Of course we will be able to gauge this by the rapture of folks like Pastor John Hagee ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    how can the Grand Canyon be more polluted now with our cleaner cars and our manufacturing base moved to China than it was in the early 60's when cars didn't even have PCV valves?

    I was up there bright and early in the morning a year ago June. It was absolutely beautiful. By the time we left it was getting polluted by dozens of stinky buses loaded down with tourists from all the high rises in Phoenix and the other large cities. :sick: A little secret. Get there before 8 AM and the gates are open and no money changers on duty. Though I have a lifetime National Park Pass.

    larsb wrote: No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore.

    You can google Urban Sprawl and every major environmentalist group is lamenting the suburbs. Wanting to jam US as close together to take advantage of mass transit. Well, It just ain't healthy in my opinion. There is plenty of land if the enviro whackos don't get their way and stop all development. These well meaning people believe that keeping everyone close and tidy will protect the surrounding environment. That may be so. The problems created by jamming folks together in cities seems to far outweigh the damage to the surrounding area when people spread out a bit. Plant a few trees in the neighborhood. Quite frankly I don't understand how a human being can wake up in the morning and look out his window at the brick wall 10' from his window and not want to commit harry carry. Maybe it is just me. I like looking out my bedroom window and seeing the snowcapped San Jacinto mountain 63 air miles from my patio. Our air may not be clear as it was at the dawn of Creation, but 63 miles is not too shabby to be able to see most days.

    Now if we could just clean up the dead zone caused by over fertilizing corn for ethanol, we will have accomplished something GOOD.
  • SSIEMSSSIEMS Member Posts: 10
    I sure wish I could come up with as good of scam as global warming. I could brain wash a bunch of people guilty consistence to send me lots of money that I could keep half of and use the other half to brain wash more to send more money. I could be a real fat cat like all of these rich proponents of global warming.Any one can phony up a chart to try to prove there point, remember there once was a man that stated there is a fool born every day and when you look at whats taken for truth today you have to say he was wrong there must be at least 100 born every day these days. There also was a person who said If you tell a lie enough times there are enough people that take every thing at face value that to them it will soon be the truth.well I don't take things at face value I question every thing and I don't take sides until l know where the real truth lies.In stead of listening to all the babel and taking it for the gospel truth, just go to your state weather service and look at the record temp charts you will find most record high temps still stand and that they occurred in the late 30's into the 50's.next thing we will here is that global warming is going to cause another ice age and there are idiots that will believe it.Let's put a few more of the temperature recording sensors over top of ac units or a few feet from an incinerator may be we can get a better idea of what our temp are really doing!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I still think man-made climate change is a con

    Spending billions on trying to reduce carbon emissions is one giant con that is depriving third world countries of vital funds to tackle famine, HIV and other diseases, Sammy Wilson said.

    The DUP minister has been heavily criticised by environmentalists for claiming that ongoing climatic shifts are down to nature and not mankind.

    But while acknowledging his views on global warming may not be popular, the East Antrim MP said he was not prepared to be bullied by eco fundamentalists.

    “I’ll not be stopped saying what I believe needs to be said about climate change,” he said.

    most of the people who shout about climate change have not read one article about it

    “I think in 20 years’ time we will look back at this whole climate change debate and ask ourselves how on earth were we ever conned into spending the billions of pounds which are going into this without any kind of rigorous examination of the background, the science, the implications of it all. Because there is now a degree of hysteria about it, fairly unformed hysteria I’ve got to say as well.


    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/environment/environment-minister-sammy-wi- lson-i-still-think-manmade-climate-change-is-a-con-14123972.html

    It is good to see that not all politicians are giving in to the ECO Bullies in the GW Cult.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Church of England’s Church Commissioners have gone green, investing £150 million with former US Vice-President Al Gore’s environmentally minded investment firm, Generation Investment Management.

    Wait till the parishioners find out it is just another Ponzi scheme. Madoff and Gore, both Flim Flam men.

    http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/news/?NewsID=3568
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,424
    "...Madoff and Gore, both Flim Flam men..."

    And yet people begged to give their money away to BOTH of them. :cry:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Is anybody catching the DEAD of winter COLD 120th Tournament of Roses Bowl Parade !? :P It looks to be a COLD 57 degrees. :surprise: A little news flash indicated the Hawaiian participants experienced the most massive decrease in temperature. I guess wearing the hula skirts might need under armour. Life is tough on the road :blush: SoCA surfers just wear a tee shirt under their Tommy Bahama's aloha shirts ;)
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Happy New Year Ruking, and everyone else. Yes I'm watching the parade, getting ready for the Rose Bowl Game. I'm a PSU alumni, and we love JoePa.

    Anyway I could also use a little GW. I'm finding my new house gets some of that "melting arctic ice" on the inside of the sliders and some windows. Last night it was a balmy 8F when I went out at 7:30pm and ended up below 0F. I've already burned most of my 2 cords of wood that I bought, and am saving 1/4 cord in case we get an ice-storm. I just got done snow-blowing 6" last night, and I'm sure we'll have snow right into April. So with snow starting in Nov and ending in April, I don't see any signs of GW, whether natural or man-made. And neither does the rest of the nation, who have just put up with a cold and snowy Dec.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Prius sales have plummeted, and it's economy of ownership at current gas prices is certainly questionable..In Venice , Fl the local Toy dealer is discounting the low-end Prius to 23,676 and the low-Camry 5-spd manual to 14,495. That's a 9,181 spread, sure buys a alot of gas and maybe the Prius would pay for itself if you ran it to 150K miles.. That is if the battery pack and the all the electronic goodies are lifetime items..Slim chance of that happening...

    Just a little thought for the diehard Global Warming whachos...Buy a nice gas burning car and find another topic to enhance your daily life, for Mother Nature will take care of the climate, she's always there and has the situation under control..

    Meanwhile, my polluting Mustang GT Bullitt and my Pontiac GPGT will continue to run happily while you worry needlessly about the planet, I ain't worrying!!!! Maybe turtles, manatees or Scrub-jays need your assistance and you could probably chit-chat on their level...
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    It is easy to demostrate the Prius makes sense at the same price as the Corolla/Civic. That being true, a Corolla/Civic diesel (app 1,000 premium) makes absolute no brainer sense and gets 56 mpg! As you know the diesel is not available here, but world wide. Back to your statement: however a 9.2k premium is a social statement !! I am ok with folks paying for social statements !!

    So for example a Honda Civic (gasser) gets a range of 38-42 mpg during a everyday commute. It gets (this winter) 34 mpg in the "winter". Winter mpg (decrease- minus) is mainly caused by a winterized boutique designer blend/s of RUG.

    Prius for the sake of argument gets 45 mpg.

    So 150,000 miles/38/45= 3947 gals/3333 gals= 614 gals saved.* 1.80 =$1,105. At the time ( 04) the "social statement " premium was 12, 436 - 1,105 = $11,331 @ $1.80 per gal/ 6,295 gals of fuel * 38 mpg= 239,210 miles of commuting.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    The Prius is like driving a tin-can. It is a toy that rides like a grocery-cart.

    On the other hand, I get up to 56 MPG on my car while sitting on leather seats in air-condisioned bliss on a highway trip. I even get German roadcar handling. Lifetime fuel cost/mile is $0.05 over 100,000 miles. (Yes, I track every drop of fuel ever pumped into my tank)

    A Prius cannot match that on its best day.... and when those $2000 batteries need replacing, it aint worth much in resale value.

    My vehicle is so clean that I could sit in a closed garage with my engine idling and not die (minimal carbonMonoxide emmissions) With the right fuel, my exhaust smells like popcorn.

    Who can guess what kind of fuel my vehicle consumes?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Gummi Bears? :)

    Sounds pretty cheap. I've put in 5,829 gallons in my ten year old minivan (through 124,837 miles - haven't updated the spreadsheet with the last 5k).

    I just track miles and gallons though. I figure gas has cost me about .16 a mile over the decade.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Close.... My car consumes "oil" for fuel.... virtually any oil will do.
    Although I usually run standard Diesel fuel, I could also run biodiesel (made from vegatable-oil).

    There are some folks with Diesel engines that get free fuel from local resturants who are GLAD to get rid of used cooking oil.

    The only "drawback" I have with a diesel engine is that the durn thing is SOOOO efficent, that it does not make much heat in the winter. (very little fuel wasted as residual heat).... but I can just bundle up, turn on the heated seats, and stay warm knowing that I am getting over 650 miles per tank of fuel :D
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My wife has a mild case of asthma so no diesels for us thank you.

    You may be interested in What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    It was nice of you to suggest a different forum for bpeebles but I also think his post was very appropriate for this forum as well.

    An engine that runs that clean is certainly of some interest here and has to have some effect or whether or not automobiles are a major cause of global warming, don't you think?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Actually, I already follow most of the diesel forums. :D
    Thanks houdini1 for the support... you understood my point. One needs to measure "emmissions per mile" to get a proper picture of any vehicle emmissions. Any vehicle that uses less fuel per mile must, by definition, be putting out less emmissions. A Prius has those batteries to dispose of. Any battery is considerd hazzardus waste. (Did you see Sundays report about 100s of people dying due to lead-recycling from batterys?)

    Closer to the subject again...

    I just saw on the news that the sea-ice is covering more square miles than it has in 28 years. As an addemdum to that, it was reported that no measurable increase in average global temparture has been seen in 6 years.

    I just wish I had written down their sources to the above 2 bits of info.... I know some folks here like to see the source of data. I do recall that the second report was from someone in Hawaii.

    I know that on a recient episode of "Deadliest Catch"... the ship got unexpectly cought in ice. The skipper declared that he has not seen the ice come this far south in about 30 years. (Perhaps that somwhat confirms the 1st report I mention above.)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Clean diesel? Is that a bit like clean coal? :P

    I was just making the point that there's not just "one drawback" to diesel. Particulates are a big issue.

    I've seen some ice coverage news not long ago too, Bpeebles. The thickness was an issue (thinner ice won't last the summer or something like that).
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Good intelligent posters who can think for themselves are always needed on this forum. I hope you stick around. ;)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,424
    "...that sea-ice is covering more square miles than it has in 28 years..."

    Don't worry the CC cultists have an answer for that. It seems that this new ice is the "wrong kind" of ice and is prone to melting away.

    Now, how these folks know what kind of ice was there in 1979, I don't know. Maybe it was certified organic ice which has a different chemistry than this new modern ice. :confuse:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    They probably have core samples going back decades that show the thickness too. The stories are reporting satellite observations. Seems like there should be some older data out there too.

    "Why were predictions so wrong? Researchers had expected the newer sea ice, which is thinner, to be less resilient and melt easier. Instead, the thinner ice had less snow cover to insulate it from the bitterly cold air, and therefore grew much faster than expected, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center."

    Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979 (Daily Tech)

    In other matters, it appears there is a difference in terminology:

    "According to the National Academy of Sciences, the phrase climate change encompasses changes in temperature, precipitation and wind lasting for an extended period of time. While global warming refers to an increase in the temperature at the atmosphere near the earth's surface."

    Climate Change versus Global Warming (Muncie Green)
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    So now you understand why it's Climate Change not just Global Warming. Anything changes - ever - and it's our fault. Neat, but a tad contrived, (it must be if I can see through it; or perhaps thirty four years working for big oil endows one with a certain scepticism ? And also a tremendous respect for that industry, I have to say).

    Would welcome a little GW right now; it's chilly here and Russia is playing silly beggars with natural gas supplies. :)
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2009-01-01-mammothimpact_N.htm

    I really think that whether GW (or Climate Change or whatever the vogue word of the day is) is 1%, 10%, or 25% contribution by man, that we spend our energy and resources on the more important threats to the environment.

    As theorized in that article, these impacts set fire to the entire continent of North America! We need to have our scientiic resources focused on these planet-killer threats, not running around trying to figure out the small part man has in putting CO2 in the air. Or how to stop a 1C increase! There aren't many resources right now focused on detecting or stopping these sorts of comet/asteroid collisions.

    To me spending money on GW is like worrying about what is causing a skin-rash, when you really should be focusing on preventing a heart-attack. But since we have some sort of "religious" subconcious-psych-issue going with "man is bad", and "we must repent for sins against nature", we spend time worrying about the less important issues.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    1C increase is sort of like talking about extending a wheelbase one inch. It can make a lot of difference in how the car rides and handles, even thought it seems like a "small" number.

    Skin rashes can be fatal too. :)
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