Very glad to see that you are okay. Geocities does not allow external linking of the images, which is why you cannot embed them in your messages.
Your wife hitting her head on the window makes a strong case for side impact head protection curtains, especially for lower and smaller vehicles. The side impact airbag probably didn't deploy since the damage wasn't closer to the doors. At that high of a speed, it is very fortunate that he didn't impact your side doors as there is relatively little crumple space between the doors and the occupants.
Take care, Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
You should call us so a Rep. can check out what the dealer has been finding. Then, they can get the dealer to talk to our tech. folks to try and resolve this once and for all.
I'm sorry you had so many problems, but I'm sure we can help.
Daniell: you must have great hearing! Well, glad to hear it's normal, then.
Sweet, Dom. Keep us posted?
Holy Cow, Norm! Glad you were OK. That looks like a pretty severe collision! I'm glad the Forester absorbed the punishment and you were both relatively unscathed.
From the looks of it, you were moving forward at a fare pace and that may be why the front air bags deployed.
Dale: careful because oil can deteriorate rubber. Use lithium grease instead.
Thanks for the well wishes. We had just entered the intersection, so I was going maybe 10-15 mph. Fortunately for us (besides being in a Forester), an EMT happened to be jogging by, as well as several witnesses to the incident, so the other driver was cited. They were also carrying insurance, thank goodness. I think the front air bags deployed because of the force delivered to the engine compartment, where the sensors are located, despite the fact that it was primarily a side impact.
What Drew says about the side impact bags makes me wonder what would have happened had they hit the passenger door -- would the side bag not have deployed high enough to protect the head? I have not been able to find out much about how the side bag deploys in the Forester.
Glad you and your wife are OK. It is reassuring to hear/see a Forester do so well in protecting you in such a nasty accident. Your wife's concussion does make me wish Foresters had a side impact head protection curtains. It's really the only thing I wish my Forester had. (SOA are you listening!)
It seems to me that the side airbags SHOULD have deployed. Aren't they triggered by the same sensors as the front bags? If they have separate side sensors, the type of impact in this case should have deployed them. I cannot help but wonder if the concussion could have been avoided had they deployed.
My wife had a similar accident about 15 years ago where her head hit and shattered the side window. Our old Saab had no airbags, but it did have side impact beams and a structure designed to protect the occupant, similar to what Subaru uses. The car was totaled. The impact was hard enough to crush the rear wheel on the opposite side of the car, but it just avoided rolling over.
Her injuries included a concussion that rendered her momentarily unconscious and a gash that required 47 stitches and caused permanent, but fortunately, superficial, nerve damage. You have to be very careful with such injuries. Be sure to follow up with your doctor.
Subaru is now the only make of vehicle in a reasonable price range that I feel safe in with respect to accident injury.
Glad you're ok. I remember you started a thread here at Edmunds back in Oct 2000, asking for comparison of Forester vs 4Runner. It's kind of ironic that it was 4Runner that hit your beautiful Forester. Let's hope that everything goes well with the insurance settlements.
Like all the other good folks here, I am glad you and your wife did not suffer more. I pray that her neck pain is not long term. Considering the Toyo was doing ~50 mph, the damage is less than expected. Interestingly, a gentleman in the VDC forum just explained a similar situation. He was hit broadside in the driver's door. He walked away from the impact with some scratches and bruises. Wound up purchasing another VDC! However, the side airbag did not deploy. Hmmm.
Kate - Good memory; yup, it is ironic, isn't it. I still don't regret my decision.
Rochcom - I agree with you -- they should have deployed, but unfortunately, juice is right -- they are different sensors. The reason I know that is if you look in the owner's manual, there are diagrams showing when the side air bags will not deploy, and one of them depicts exactly my situtation, a forward-side (non-door) impact. My wife has already seen an orthopedist for the neck pain and will be seeing a neurologist for the headaches.
Again, thanks all for the well wishes. Be careful out there!
Side impact airbags are indeed controlled by different sensors; contrary to popular belief, the sensors actually deploy the airbags based on G-forces. Since the impact was far away from the doors, this is probably why they didn't deploy. Subaru's side impact airbags currently do not offer any head protection.
Mercedes-Benz's head protection curtains are connected to different sensors than the side impact thorax/torso airbags, so it is possible to have the head protection curtain deploy, but not the side impact airbag. I'm not sure if this is the case for all manufacturers.
Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I have 23000 miles on my Forester L 5mt. I drive to the Catskill Mountains in New York from New Jersey every weekend putting on about 400 miles. I have done 32 mpg once but pretty routinely average 26-28 mpg on a tank of gas. One tip I read was to get into 5th gear as quickly as possible which I do. Soneone else told me that I can damage the engine by having it lug in high gear below the recommended speed which is 40 I believe. On downhill stretches I will go to 5th as low as 30. I of course shift down on any upgrade. Can anybody comment on this?
Lugging is the key. Keeping the RPM above 2,000 and preferably around 3,000 is a good idea unless you are cruising on a flat road and not pulling a load (full vehicle) or going up hill. It is probably a good idea to wind it out now and then to 4,000 RPM or better just to blow out the carbon and maybe have some fun. A good book to read is "Drive It Forever". Lots of tips on both taking care of your care and getting good mileage.
I went to a dealership today and for all intents and purposes bought a 2001 Subaru Outback wagon. I had thought about getting a Forester but this is a little bigger and I thought I should get it. I got it for dealer invoice though I still have to officially sign off on the paperwork. They wanted to sell me some extras but I told them I would decide tomorrow. Do you think they are worth it?
They want to sell me an Extended Subaru warranty for $799. It is through Subaru and will extend the warranty period from three to six years. My first impulse was not to get it but what does anyone else think. They also want to sell me rust protection ($299), environmental paint protection ($199) and leather protection($199) from Armor All. My inital impulse is to get the rust protection but pass on the rest. I do live in Central New York which is the snow capital.
To secretariat, Buy the warranty only if you think you will keep the car beyond the factory warranty period. Then it is worth it! You do not need rust protection, leather protection or paint protection. They are already on the car from the factory. Take care of the leather with regular leather care products.
secretariat: I might go for the extended warranty (which may be negotiable) for the peace of mind, especially if it is transferrable to the next buyer.
The other items? High profit for the dealership. Take a look at older Subarus in your home area. Are they fading or rusting? Probably not. I'd save my money ($700).
Secretariat: I have the Subaru "Gold Plus" extended warranty, and, so far, at just over 45,000 miles, it has only been useful once, saving me just under $200 for a pretty minor repair. I don't regret getting it, but the jury definitely remains out -- for another 15,000 miles -- on whether it'll actually pay for itself. As for the other items, well, I don't live in the snowbelt and don't have leather upholstery, so I'm no expert, but to me, most of that stuff sounds pretty unnecessary and the prices sound quite heavily padded.
Canadian Forester Sport: Yeah, I like that grill a lot more than the current grills on U.S. Foresters, which I think have too much toothy-looking chrome. (I'm fond of my '98 Forester's businesslike grill, too.) Judging from others' positive comments on it, I think that grill ought to be offered as a U.S. option!
Norm: Sorry about the Forester damage and y'all's injuries, but glad it wasn't at all worse. The collision sounds quite nasty.
The Extended subaru warranty, get the GOLD subaru warranty. There is a difference. The gold is just like the bumper to bumper one that comes from the factory. The extended is less than full B to B.
My brake pads aren't worn yet but I am noticing longer stopping distances and a little fadding in the feel of the brake peddels. I read that the factory pads are organic not semi metallic. Anyone has any suggestions as to what material brake pads I should be looking for? semi mettalic, carbon, mettalic, etc. Manufacture names? Thanks a bunch in advance.
I agree - rust proofing, leather protection, etc. are not really necessary. But with the Subaru plan (Added Security), I know we pay claims on them so some folks are getting benefit from them.
We use semi-metallic pads at the factory. The differences from what I see - more metallic content=some noise on occasion. Semi- metallic, some noise on occasion - Organic - quieter, but not long lasting. Mercedes and some other high end cars use organics, but if you talk to some owners, they are not happy with replacement frequency.
Just going by the photo's I don't think the side bags would have deployed. The sensor looks for basically a T-bone type impact. Since it looks like the bulk of the impact was to the front quarter panel, it probably absorbed most of the hit there and there weren't enough g-forces to deploy the side bags.
I'm glad you folks are not more seriously injured and that the other driver was cited. Please give your wife my warm wishes for a quick recovery!
for the info on the break pads. I'll check on their wear today as I am about to rotate my tires. Semi Mettalic, that explains those screeching stops on cold buffalo winter mornings. I was wondering why organic pads would screech...
On a separate note, let me comment on the subaru door lock design...Damn those things are hard to pick!!! Good Job Subaru!! I locked my keys in the car earlier this morning after I stoped by Pepboys to pick up some Valvoline Synpower motoroil and a new jack, called a professional lock service, the service tech took over half an hour to get the door opened. He was amazed at how difficult it was to get to the lock cable. Even his manual said "very stiff lock mechanism". He also told me that he could pick the GM and Ford locks in less than a minute!!!
It's pretty easy to slim-jim subarus due to the frame-less windows. Although here in NYC, they'll just steel the whole car even if they just want the radio.
Hank: 32mpg is fantastic. Generally, you do not want the engine under 2000rpm, where it's not really making any torque, in case you need acceleration. For long downhills, you may want engine braking so as not to bake the brakes.
But as long as you more or less follow those guidelines, and get that kind of mileage, wow! I'm averaging 25mpg and my best is "just" 30.4.
Frank still holds the record, at 33.4 IIRC.
Patricia: Subaru applies an undercoating from the factory. They actually recommend against any additional rust protection packages. Not to mention they stink, literally. The sulfur smell as it burns off is nasty.
Ditto the paint protection, since the panels are mostly double galvanized steel. Just use a good wax.
I'm not a big Armor All fan, so I'd just get Lexol. It's considered a far superior product and costs a whopping $8 or so per bottle.
The warranty is your call. $800 is a good price, most quotes I hear of are in the $1000 range.
My 2000 Forester has 23000 miles on it in 18 months and already the carpet on the left foot rest has worn through. Has anyone else had this problem? Is this a warranty issue?
Love my car but don't feel the carpeting lives up to Suburu's quality standards at all.
Are you sure a Sube can be slim jimmed even though it has fram less windows? I was told that you can't since the lock cable is only accessible from the outside through a little hole about the size of a half dollar, that's what made the tech's job so hard. He had plenty of slim jims and didnt' use a single one of them.
I know what you are talking about for NYC. Lived there for a good part of my short life. Some one actually tried to slim jim my dad's Nissan in June, ended up bending a metal strip inside the door but couldn't get it opened. I think most manufacturers have built in features that make slim jimming or other wise opening door without a key more difficult. At least they try to increase the time it takes to break the lock.
Juice- Sorry but the best I've gotten was 30.4mpg. Hank's 32mpg is the record for one tank AFAIK. Wonder if my 27.5mpg avg (20K miles) is still the record?
No problem. I locked my keys in the Forester once. Don't ask .. I felt like an idiot. After my efforts to slide a coat hanger between the window and the rubber gasket failed,(that rubber is tough stuff)I had to call a locksmith. It took him 20 mins. to get there, 15 mins to fill out the paper work, and 5 seconds to open the door with a slim jim. He put a wood block wedge between the bottom seal and the window slipped the bar in and presto! So .. yep you sure can get into a Soob with a slim jim. - hutch
Well the one I speak of, basically is used to pry the window away from the car, and then you stick a sort of long metal rod into the car, and unlock the doors via power locks or lift/pull/push manual locks.
I think J Bars and Slim Jims are the same thing. A thin piece of metal that is slipped between the window and the outer sheet metal of the door. They hook the lock mechanism and pull it which unlocks to door.
Paisan .. I think your refering to a crow bar You're correct about the Pros. - hutch
I am thinking about getting Subaru's powered subwoofer, the one that goes under the driver's seat. Is this prewired? What bout mounts? Is installation easy?
Also, the Clarion PSW160 subwoofer is similar, but not exactly the same. How easy is that to install?
The sub is prewired for power and sound. You're good to go.
I imagine any non-stock speakers will be a bit more work. The key, I guess, is the mounting. You may have to manufacture your own bracket, but I imagine that's not too hard.
I have a Clarion PSW160 underseat subwoofer in my '01 Forester S. I had it installed by a stereo shop, but it doesn't appear to be too difficult. It mounts to the carpet with the supplied slip nuts and has all the wiring harnesses you need. I had an aftermarket headunit installed, so the ability to hook up to the factory headunit wasn't important to me. However, the wiring allows hookup to any headunit. By the way, it sounds great! Regarding best recorded fuel economy, I've gotten as high as 32.72 MPG on one tank. Although this was unusually high, I've gotten 32 even, as well as several tanks in the 31-plus-change region. My average is in the 29 MPG range, mostly highway driving. My car has the 5 speed stick shift.
I have it on my '00 Outback. It was factory installed and they put it under the passenger seat. I'm not sure if it goes there for all Subies or because I have a power driver seat. Sound is pretty decent, but the factory setting volume was to low. Fortunately, the sound is adjustable.
I mentioned before that I used to own Saabs. About 15 years ago, a Saab engineer wrote a paper on the 1-3-5 driving method. (Sorry, but I cannot remember the name of the author or paper). In it, he cited research that showed that lugging did not cause engine damage.
This method involves skipping second and fourth when shifting up through the gears. It is designed to save gasoline. The only time these gears are used is when going up a hill or pulling a heavy load.
I haven't heard much about this method lately, but I had used it for several years without damaging my car. I still usually skip 4th gear most of the time, except when accelerating up a hill. I would be concerned, however, if the lugging became severe.
Comments
Your wife hitting her head on the window makes a strong case for side impact head protection curtains, especially for lower and smaller vehicles. The side impact airbag probably didn't deploy since the damage wasn't closer to the doors. At that high of a speed, it is very fortunate that he didn't impact your side doors as there is relatively little crumple space between the doors and the occupants.
Take care,
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I'm sorry you had so many problems, but I'm sure we can help.
Patti
Patti
Sweet, Dom. Keep us posted?
Holy Cow, Norm! Glad you were OK. That looks like a pretty severe collision! I'm glad the Forester absorbed the punishment and you were both relatively unscathed.
From the looks of it, you were moving forward at a fare pace and that may be why the front air bags deployed.
Dale: careful because oil can deteriorate rubber. Use lithium grease instead.
-juice
Sorry about the pic; I think this link will work:
Accident pics
Thanks for the well wishes. We had just entered the intersection, so I was going maybe 10-15 mph. Fortunately for us (besides being in a Forester), an EMT happened to be jogging by, as well as several witnesses to the incident, so the other driver was cited. They were also carrying insurance, thank goodness. I think the front air bags deployed because of the force delivered to the engine compartment, where the sensors are located, despite the fact that it was primarily a side impact.
What Drew says about the side impact bags makes me wonder what would have happened had they hit the passenger door -- would the side bag not have deployed high enough to protect the head? I have not been able to find out much about how the side bag deploys in the Forester.
Side curtain bags would be a nice addition. VW will offer them, so it's not unheard of in this price range. I think Saturn will, too.
-juice
My wife had a similar accident about 15 years ago where her head hit and shattered the side window. Our old Saab had no airbags, but it did have side impact beams and a structure designed to protect the occupant, similar to what Subaru uses. The car was totaled. The impact was hard enough to crush the rear wheel on the opposite side of the car, but it just avoided rolling over.
Her injuries included a concussion that rendered her momentarily unconscious and a gash that required 47 stitches and caused permanent, but fortunately, superficial, nerve damage. You have to be very careful with such injuries. Be sure to follow up with your doctor.
Subaru is now the only make of vehicle in a reasonable price range that I feel safe in with respect to accident injury.
The fact that the Forester spun around may have been why they didn't deploy. The energy dispersed, thankfully.
The bottom line is you both walked away from a rather violent collision. That little Subie is going to heaven.
-juice
Ken
Greg
Greg
Rochcom - I agree with you -- they should have deployed, but unfortunately, juice is right -- they are different sensors. The reason I know that is if you look in the owner's manual, there are diagrams showing when the side air bags will not deploy, and one of them depicts exactly my situtation, a forward-side (non-door) impact. My wife has already seen an orthopedist for the neck pain and will be seeing a neurologist for the headaches.
Again, thanks all for the well wishes. Be careful out there!
Mercedes-Benz's head protection curtains are connected to different sensors than the side impact thorax/torso airbags, so it is possible to have the head protection curtain deploy, but not the side impact airbag. I'm not sure if this is the case for all manufacturers.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
-juice
I have done 32 mpg once but pretty routinely average 26-28 mpg on a tank of gas. One tip I read was to get into 5th gear as quickly as possible which I do. Soneone else told me that I can damage the engine by having it lug in high gear below the recommended speed which is 40 I believe. On downhill stretches I will go to 5th as low as 30. I of course shift down on any upgrade. Can anybody comment on this?
bit
Funny how you go from speed when you are young to mpg as you get older!
They want to sell me an Extended Subaru warranty for $799. It is through Subaru and will extend the warranty period from three to six years. My first impulse was not to get it but what does anyone else think. They also want to sell me rust protection ($299), environmental paint protection ($199) and leather protection($199) from Armor All. My inital impulse is to get the rust protection but pass on the rest. I do live in Central New York which is the snow capital.
I would appreciate any thoughts anyone may have.
Buy the warranty only if you think you will keep the car beyond the factory warranty period. Then it is worth it! You do not need rust protection, leather protection or paint protection. They are already on the car from the factory. Take care of the leather with regular leather care products.
The other items? High profit for the dealership. Take a look at older Subarus in your home area. Are they fading or rusting? Probably not. I'd save my money ($700).
Canadian Forester Sport: Yeah, I like that grill a lot more than the current grills on U.S. Foresters, which I think have too much toothy-looking chrome. (I'm fond of my '98 Forester's businesslike grill, too.) Judging from others' positive comments on it, I think that grill ought to be offered as a U.S. option!
Norm: Sorry about the Forester damage and y'all's injuries, but glad it wasn't at all worse. The collision sounds quite nasty.
-mike
Mike
Patti
Patti
I'm glad you folks are not more seriously injured and that the other driver was cited. Please give your wife my warm wishes for a quick recovery!
Patti
On a separate note, let me comment on the subaru door lock design...Damn those things are hard to pick!!! Good Job Subaru!! I locked my keys in the car earlier this morning after I stoped by Pepboys to pick up some Valvoline Synpower motoroil and a new jack, called a professional lock service, the service tech took over half an hour to get the door opened. He was amazed at how difficult it was to get to the lock cable. Even his manual said "very stiff lock mechanism". He also told me that he could pick the GM and Ford locks in less than a minute!!!
-mike
But as long as you more or less follow those guidelines, and get that kind of mileage, wow! I'm averaging 25mpg and my best is "just" 30.4.
Frank still holds the record, at 33.4 IIRC.
Patricia: Subaru applies an undercoating from the factory. They actually recommend against any additional rust protection packages. Not to mention they stink, literally. The sulfur smell as it burns off is nasty.
Ditto the paint protection, since the panels are mostly double galvanized steel. Just use a good wax.
I'm not a big Armor All fan, so I'd just get Lexol. It's considered a far superior product and costs a whopping $8 or so per bottle.
The warranty is your call. $800 is a good price, most quotes I hear of are in the $1000 range.
-juice
Love my car but don't feel the carpeting lives up to Suburu's quality standards at all.
I know what you are talking about for NYC. Lived there for a good part of my short life. Some one actually tried to slim jim my dad's Nissan in June, ended up bending a metal strip inside the door but couldn't get it opened. I think most manufacturers have built in features that make slim jimming or other wise opening door without a key more difficult. At least they try to increase the time it takes to break the lock.
I've heard of thieves so good they know where to drill to kill an alarm battery.
-juice
-Frank P.
So .. yep you sure can get into a Soob with a slim jim.
- hutch
-mike
-mike
Paisan .. I think your refering to a crow bar
You're correct about the Pros.
- hutch
Also, the Clarion PSW160 subwoofer is similar, but not exactly the same. How easy is that to install?
-Steven-
P.S. - To Secretariat - nice screen name!
I imagine any non-stock speakers will be a bit more work. The key, I guess, is the mounting. You may have to manufacture your own bracket, but I imagine that's not too hard.
-juice
I imagine it is much the same on a Forester.
bit
Thanks.
Regarding best recorded fuel economy, I've gotten as high as 32.72 MPG on one tank. Although this was unusually high, I've gotten 32 even, as well as several tanks in the 31-plus-change region. My average is in the 29 MPG range, mostly highway driving. My car has the 5 speed stick shift.
Len
Coincidence?
So I've avoided their products since then.
Lexol is big with the Miata.net folks. They swear by it.
-juice
This method involves skipping second and fourth when shifting up through the gears. It is designed to save gasoline. The only time these gears are used is when going up a hill or pulling a heavy load.
I haven't heard much about this method lately, but I had used it for several years without damaging my car. I still usually skip 4th gear most of the time, except when accelerating up a hill. I would be concerned, however, if the lugging became severe.