A rearward folding 3rd row (like the Odyssey's) will be tough for an AWD vehicle because of the space the rear differential/axle requires. If you made a forward facing 3rd row, it has to be thinner, less comfortable, and smaller. Always a trade-off :-).
I think an auto magazine once suggested that Subaru should be in the minivan market with an AWD minivan. That would definitely be nice! It can't be small though (at least Odyssey size, probably), as smaller minivans have historically not done well in the N.American market.
The Rendezvous topic has been pretty dead for the last few days for obvious reasons. Feel free to post your honest impressions of the vehicle in there if you wish; no need to soften the plus and minuses if you don't wish to ;-) BTW, was it a Versatrak version that you rented?
Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
While I'm not suprised at the news of Subaru designing a larger SUV based on the Legacy chassis, I'm not sure if that will be a Forester. Maybe it's the Grand Forester we've been talking about for some time. I'd sure be disappointed if FHI decided to end the Impreza-chassis based approach anytime soon.
That sounds good actually. Impreza-derived for the younger demographic, and Legacy-derived for the older demographic who want more room and luxury? I guess we'll see in a bit.
Well, 1615 miles later, my l-o-n-g weekend (5 days total) trip to Mississippi was a success. The Stubby was great, although I was disappointed in the Yoko tire performance in wet conditions. We had seriously heavy rains for long periods of time thru the FL panhandle, AL and MS on the way up and on the return trip. The Stubby tended to hydroplane fairly easily (and frequently).
This was particularly distressing as I live in FL (and today a tropical storm passed thru, dumping several inches of rain in the area) so wet weather is a frequent occurance.
Interestingly enough, I only saw 3 other Foresters the whole trip, and the first one I saw was almost the mirror image of mine, a '02 S Blue Ridge Pearl with a Thule cartopper (mine is a '01 and I also had a Thule cartopper. It fits just fine on the factory racks, btw). It was weird, and I was also glad I decided on the '01, I like the cladding color better. Then on the return trip, we stopped to get gas, and a green L Forester pulled in directly behind me. I felt this kind of strange camaraderie, so I had to comment on our mutual Stubby-ness. She liked mine better (colorwise).
I also talked to many people who wanted to know how I liked the Forester. They (Foresters) seem to be a bit of a curiosity.
I averaged 24.61 mpg, with a high of 31.1 and a low of 20.4. I've now topped 4K total miles.
Luckily, I pulled up farther than usual (closer to the house) last night, as a tree in the neighbor's yard split apart in the wind. The Stubby would have been mushed had it been in it's normal spot.
I have a set of Geolander H/T (P215/60R16 94H) tires on my Subaru. I have noticed uneven wear on the outer part of the rear tires. I had the tires aligned and balanced and purchased new Yokohama tires for the rear. After 7,000 miles, it's happening again.
I'm wondering if this could be related to the tires? I'm also following up with Subaru. Has anyone else had this kind of a problem? Other than this, I the car has been great (35,000 miles so far...).
I have had no problems thus far (22,000 km ~13,500 miles). What pressure are you using? The uneven wear could be a result of under inflation especially if you drive in a "sporting manor". I'm using 31-32 rear with light load.
welcome back.......i too like the original odysey as i find the new one too big, bulky & inefficient. as i don't need a 7-passenger-all-the-time vehicle, the old odysey makes more sense as it doesn't punish you as much fuel-consumption-wise.......have you seen the honda stream?.....a 7 passenger civic-based vehicle....even more fuel efficient than the original odysey (40 mpg hwy). there is even a 4wd version in japan (they get all the good stuff!) a 4wd stream with "outbacked" styling would be the perfect vehicle for me.
almost forgot, juice.....subaru is marketing (in japan, of course) a version of GM's opel zafira mini-mini-van called the traviq.....no word if it has subaru's all-wheel-drive system....this too would be a good fit for me.
Yes, Drew, it had Versatrak. Felt like FWD to me, though, with the requisite understeer.
I reviewed Automotive News, and they specifically mention the "Impreza-based Forester" getting redesigned. So at least they think it'll stay on Impreza mechanicals. I hope the press heard it was getting the rear suspension from the Outback and then mistook that for a platform swap. That would mean we get the best of both worlds - light weight with better packaging.
I don't like the Traviq in its current form. I'd like to see Subaru have at it with a boxer engine, AWD, longitunidally mounted drivetrain, and indy rear suspension. Then I'd consider one.
Right now, honestly, I'd just pick a minivan.
But then I'd give up the chance to drive in the Pine Barrens, like we did on Saturday. We drove on "unimproved roads", which means loose sand, sometimes deep, with some challenging portions of mud and a few water crossings (there was always an easier bypass if you prefer that). We did about 20+ miles overall, and had quite a good time.
The Forester was great. A little wide, believe it or not, so the trees were scraping up against both sides. The Outback Sport in front of me fared better in this regard.
We had two BRATs and an old hatchback, too, and those 4WD models did very well. An XT6 got stuck once in deep sand, and another time after a water crossing flooded his intake. It was wild - we pulled the plugs and cranked the starter and water actually shot out of the cylinders. Believe it or not, we actually got him up and running again!
I'll share pictures after I upload them, but it was a hoot. I did a nice water crossing myself, a couple actually, as did Lark in his black Forester. The plastic cover under the engine helped a LOT. Skid plates would have been even better, as I hit bottom once or twice (no big deal, though).
I did cross one of the mud pits, but not the deepest ones that stuck even a huge Monty that was with us and had mud tires. A BRAT actually crossed successfully after several attempts, once he learned to avoid the ruts.
Any how, we had a blast and Sandy is now filthy, filthy. Though the trails are light-to-medium, I'm sure this is more than 99.9% of SUV owners ever do, and the Foresters managed nicely.
Check out my Pine Barrens album. Great photos galore. Who says you can't take a Subie off road? Check out photos 16 and 32 to get an idea of what a Forester can do!
Yeah, as a result of the Pine Barrens run I better know what the Forester can and cannot do. I made most all the runs that juice made save one or two - one in particular where I came in a little hot, had the steering wheel jerk (yes I know the proper thumbs technique) and decided to let the car follow its course around one of the bypasses. Not knowing how the Forester would hold up through the water hazard, I wimped out and let juice run through first on the morning run. (After all, he has been our guinea pig for a lot of things to do with and to our Foresters ;-). ) Sure enough it went through fine and I followed suit in the afternoon.
All in all a great venue to show the versatility and fun factor of our little square Subarus. It was also good that so many people got out and had a diversion, however brief, from the tragic events of last week.
We just picked up our second Subaru last night, an Aspen White Forester S+ (auto). So now, my 2000 OB has another Subie to keep it company. I tried to get the wife to look at the Saturn L-series and Toyota Prius just as a basis of comparison. She had no interest. After last winter's snow and driving the OB a couple of times in the mess, she only wanted a vehicle with AWD. I know, I know..."traitor to the Crew", right? Actually, I just wanted her to be convinced that whatever car she chose, would be the one she would be happy with 8-10 years down the road. Ron
A while back I mentioned how my 2001 L (AT) has a small audible click when depressing the brake for the first time after starting up the car. Well, I took the Subie in for its 7500 mile check up yesterday and mentioned that to the service guy. For what it's worth (have no idea how trustworthy this particular mechanic was), he said it's the ABS braking system self-test. It checked out OK and they couldn't find anything at all wrong with the braking system, so I'm not worried about it.
A couple other things I want to ask all you other Forester owners. It's been wet here in Wisconsin lately, and I've noticed that the insides of the windows seem to collect a lot of moisture. The defroster doesn't seem to help much with it either. When I have time I'm going to get some Windex and wash the inside of the windshield and see if that helps. Anyone else notice this or have any tips on how to avoid it?
Second, what's the recommended schedule for tire rotation? I noticed that they rotated my tires for the first time with yesterday's 7500 mile service. At first I was miffed b/c I thought (from checking www.my.subaru.com's maintenance schedule) that tire rotation wasn't listed under the 7500 mile checkup, but with a little further checking I discovered tire rotation isn't listed ON ANY of the maintenance schedule entries. I know this board has talked about that but I couldn't find any of the threads quickly.
Still loving the Subie and looking forward to my first winter driving with AWD!
Actually, Ron, it's a good thing. She'll have no regrets. I'm sure she'll love her Forester.
Steve: I think Subaru may be leaving that schedule up to the tire manufacturer. 7500 miles sounds right to me. Reminds me - I'm overdue.
You can use the A/C compressor to remove humidity from the inside of the vehicle. Even with the temp on heat, it still functions to remove the humid air, and the windows won't fog. I cycle it on for just a minute or two, that's usually enough.
Steve- Juice is exactly right regarding the AC. In fact, the defroster setting in most cars automatically engages the AC to aid in removing moisture from the windows. Also, I read somewhere that it was a good idea to run the AC for several minutes at least once a month just to keep it functioning properly.
Ed -- Sounds like you guys had a blast. I enjoyed seeing a black Forester S blasting through the water!
Ron -- Congrats!
Steve -- I'd still clean the windows using an alcohol-based cleaner (ammonia tends to streak). The cleaner the window, the less stuff there is on it for moisture to cling to.
Thanks, Ken. The OCD in me is gonna have to get out there and polish like crazy this weekend to get the scratches out of each flank (3M by hand). It's tough enough to do to Subaru black paint with ordinary wear and tear. Couple of scratches on the plastic C pillars to contend with, too. Anyway, even if they don't come out 100% I can either try a professional or content myself with the fact that I was "makin' it look mean!" (Movie line, anyone?)
That's so funny, Ed, I noticed the same thing. The driver's C-pillar took some serious abuse. Looks OK now, though. I guess it's the farthest out on that side.
I think what you're hearing is the relay for the shift interlock. It's there so you can't shift into gear without the brake peddle being depressed. Mine does the same thing. Totaly normal.
Some of you answered a few of my questions back in December 1999 when I bought a 2000 Forester L in beautiful SilverThorn. I have loved that car and cared for it for 20 months - until last Thursday when, without a moment's anticipation - I found myself in a horrible accident on the freeway, which left my Subaru a total loss and myself, fortunatly, able to walk away virtually unscathed.
As a result,I have two sets of questions for any of you who are willing to help me think things through.
First, what happened was that another vehicle and I bumped into each other (in each other's blind spots) at about 65 mph. I lost control of the steering: I could not regain control of the car and ended up veering left across the left lane and crashing into the center divider, before bouncing off and coming to rest in the center shoulder facing the wrong way. Although I am grateful that the car protected me on impact, I wonder why I could not regain control after the other car and I bumped together (and i'm unclear who bumped who. Neither of us was making a lane change, but there was a gravel truck spewing chunks of gravel onto our windshields just in front, and it took place two mornings after last week's horrifying events). What does it mean that I lost control or that the car lost control? I was braking - but not too much - as I was on the freeway. Thoughts about what happened, and how to drive under such suddenly terrifying conditions are appreciated.
Second - I want to get another Subaru - but i'm not sure whether to replace the Forester with another (the new model probably, as second hand 2000 5 speed Ls are hard to find where I live in the Bay Area) - or whether to go for the Impreza 2.5 or the OBS. My budget is limited to what the insurance is giving me plus a little bit more - so I'm not sure I can get a new vehicle again, although the 2.9 financing is an option. I loved the Forester but I'm thinking of getting a model that travels lower to the ground. Those of you with experience of more than one model please speak up or refer me to earlier posts (I have been scanning this board, and OBS too).
But I'd say that the Trooper if maintained will get you about 50K-100K more miles, mostly because its more heavy duty components than the subies. The TOD on the trooper works similar to the AWD of the subaru, except it has a RWD bias rather than a front wheel bias. I'm both a subaru and trooper owner and love em both. Trooper for trips, towing, hauling, off-roading. Subaru for around town, spirited driving, light off-roadings, etc.
Since my wife and I own a 2000 OB Wagon and we just bought a Forester plus we also test drove the OB sedan, I'll share my thoughts (for what it's worth). Both the OB wagon and OB sedan have a longer wheelbase than the Forester. This means a bit more road stability and more comfortable ride than the Forester. Sitting in the driver's seat and driving the OB sedan compared to our OB wagon was amazingly similar. If I hadn't looked in the back mirror, I could have sworn I was driving my OB wagon. The sedan has a very smooth and refined ride. When driving, it also "feels" heavier than the Forester. Keep in mind though, I believe the standover height of all 3 vehicles is the same IIRC. If you're looking for an AWD vehicle lower to the ground, you may want to check out the Legacy sedan. My sister-in-law owns a 2000 L and she loves it. AND, it seems to have a bit more "pep" than the OB. Again, sorry to hear about your accident but glad to hear that you were not injured. Ron
My wife and I just bought a 1999 Subaru Forester S with manual transmission. The car has 30,000 miles and is still under bumper-to-bumper warranty until January, plus powertrain two years after that. When we bought the car we were shown repair records that indicated that the rear crank seal had been replaced to repair an oil leak, the clutch had been replaced, the water pump had been replaced, and the brake rotors were recut. I thought that was a lot of work at the time (my 5-yr. Impreza had never been the Subaru doctor), but we bought the car anyway...what else could go wrong, right? Plus, it's covered. Well, after 450 miles, 5 quarts of oil, and a failed inspection, two cylinder heads are being replaced by Subaru (sounds close to a engine rebuild to me). Subaru dealer gave us a nice rental car free of charge, and we should have our Forester back in a couple day/weeks! Should we cut our losses and dump this car? Or just figure...nothing else could go wrong, right?
Rachel, Glad to hear you weren't badly hurt (I'll bet you're still shaking though). Here are my two shillings worth: The Forester is a super car (I love mine too), but it has a bit more body roll than an Outback (and much more than a standard Legacy). The Imprezas are also very flat and stable in turns, although the OB Sport feels more like an Outback in that respect. So, if stability is a concern, but you want loads of cargo space, the Legacy wagon would seem an excellent (and affordable) choice. I wish I had some sage advice about "why" you lost control, but in similar experiences I was always too busy praying to take notes. My guess is that, like most of us, you simply over-corrected. When your vehicle starts to take off in a direction you don't intend, the natural inclination is to correct it NOW, AND HARD! Unfortunately, inertia comes around in its own sweet time and by the time it does, the steering wheel has probably been turned 30 degrees more than needed, which sends you off in another unintended direction (and perhaps sideways as well). My first experience with that came when I was 19 and hit a patch of black-ice. Seconds later (seemed like hours) I was facing south in the north-bound lane; big trucks on both sides of me. Reacting to the unexpected is, I guess, the name of the game. Actually, Its precisely because anything can happen on the road that I drive Subarus, and only Subarus.
I'm sorry to hear about your accident. That must have been a terrifying experience.
As to why you couldn't regain control, that's hard to say. At highway speeds, even small disturbances (like the bump) can be amplified due to the speed and send you flying off in one direction. As mentioned earlier, over-correction can be a culprit, but it all happens so quickly that it's often hard to do anything. Don't feel bad about it -- even trained professional drivers can't recover from accidents.
Try shopping around the dealers. I also live in the Bay area and have seen lots of inventory building up at Carlsen Subaru and Santa Cruz Subaru. Auto sales have slowed considerably recently so you should be able to swing a decent deal.
I've driven other Subaru models and each one delivers a different experience. The Legacys (OB, L and GT) are on one end of the spectrum being bigger, smoother and plush. The Imprezas are spartan, but much more nimble and peppy. The Forester falls in between the two.
I am considering buying a Forester '01 or '02. I live in New Brunswick , Canada where we get lots of snow and icy roads during our long winter season. To be on the safe side, most people put winter tires instead of the all seasons ones.
Which tires would you recommend for winter and which tires would be the best for the rest of the year.
Thanks and keep up the good work.
JC
PS How do you get the cute little flag next to your name?
I own a used '98 Forester S with remote keylock fob. Last night, it wouldn't unlock the doors. I got into the car with the key, but the system was still armed and, therefore, I couldn't start the car. After waiting a considerable amount of time (and several interim tries) the fob blinked rapidly and suddenly everything worked fine. What does this mean??? Is the battery on its last legs??? Is there some secret way to actually start the car in this situation??? What's a person to do??? Thanks for your help.
I have a 98 Forester and I live in Fernie, BC where we get alot of snow as well. Snow tires are not required if you have an all wheel drive vehicle, but they can help. I bought my car used and it came with snow tires. My opinion is that they are not absolutely required but do aid in very icy conditions. My old Subaru had normal all seasons and I was never in a bind where I absolutely needed snow tires. And we get alot of snow here as well, usually around 2 meters a year.
If you don't have a manual you should get one. My '01 manual says:
"Emergency disarming If you cannot disarm the system using the transmitter (i.e. the transmitter is lost, broken or the transmitter battery is too weak), you can disarm the system without using the transmitter. To disarm the system: 1. Unlock the door with the key and then open the door. 2. The alarm will sound. 3. Insert the key into the ignition switch and cycle it from the "LOCK" to the "ON" position three (3) times within 5 seconds."
Interesting. The factory alarm unit on my 98 Forester stopped working at around 25K miles. I would stand right next to my vehicle with a transmitter with fresh batteries and it would work only some of the time.
The dealer verfied the concern and replaced the head unit under warranty. I'm now at 61K miles and the problem is coming back.
I'm suspecting there's something with the factory alarm head unit.
Well, my '01 Forester L MT is 1 year old and I thought I would share my thoughts. My wife's '01 S+ AT is only 10 months old, but has a few more miles on it than mine, 8.5K vs. 8K (I drive my truck sometimes, and we use hers as the "family" vehicle), and since I drive hers often, those thoughts are included. Patti, there are some "survey" results included, for free, if you care to use them.
The bottom line is that I/we _still_ like these vehicles. I tend to get bored with vehicles but our Foresters still intrigue me. I love the engineering. I get the biggest kick out of how the gas overflow drain goes out _through_ the mud flap!
The AWD is seamless and works exactly as advertised, although I like the balance afforded by my 50/50 split better. We both have had a comfortable N.E. Winter under our belt, not to mention street-flooding torrential rains, and rave about the balance and control. We will both demand AWD from now on.
My wife never complains about anything with her Forester, and, well, that is unusual. Her heated seats are GREAT and that is an option she thought she would never use. I wish I had them in my L. She loves the Moonroof.
I feel my L is the better value, but hers is the better vehicle overall. I _still_ would not pay the money for an S+ though, and she would do it again in a heartbeat. I'm the Engineer and she is the bean-counter, so go figure.
I have averaged about 21 MPG in mixed driving, with the spread being 19 to 23, she has averaged about 19.5, with the spread being 17 to 21. Neither of us drive slow so we aren't complaining. We also have crappy oxygenated fuel here in MA so that doesn't help.
We have both been back to the dealer once. I asked about what seemed to me to be a "rough" throw-out bearing in the clutch actuation that wasn't there when new, and she had a slightly crooked steering wheel. They aligned her vehicle (4 wheel), and told me my roughness, which they _could_ feel, "was normal", after calling for factory assistance. I was mostly concerned that it get documented for the future, so we both came away pleased. The fewer times anyone touches my vehicle the better.
There are a few things I would change. I would like a couple more inches of legroom, even if it was at the expense of the back seat, which never gets used in my Forester. I would like the pedals to be a bit farther apart also. This always reminds me that it is a "small" vehicle, and makes me wonder if I am just too big for it. The couple of more inches of legroom would probably solve this complaint as my legs would be straighter to the pedals.
I would like more power, specifically more torque. This is more noticeable to me with my wife's AT. These vehicles are sprightly but my MT is much more so. I admire the torque curve they have designed into the H4, but I still want more. My wife says that if I only drove hers it would be much less of a concern, that it is the switching back and forth that makes it stick out. Perhaps a 5 speed AT would lessen the difference. We would both buy an H6 if available, neither would buy a turbo 4.
The syncros in the MT seem "sluggish". I never grind but I "catch a tooth" way too often, usually going into 3rd gear from 2nd. It is also difficult to get into reverse when cold, not the outside temperature, just the vehicle. Even in Summer, first-use of the day is difficult. I am going to change the trans fluid to Mobil 1 gear oil when I get a chance, and see if that fixes both problems. I sometimes wish I had the AT, so an AT with the H6 and a 45/55 split would serve me well.
The cup holder is flimsy and blocks access when open. Seems like an afterthought. I feel like I am going to break it every time I touch it.
That's basically it. I have added the "weathershields" to keep the rain out of my lap, and I want to add the 18mm rear bar to kill some of the understeer and lean, make the handling less "pedestrian", but so far so good. We both feel like we got good value and would do it again.
Here's the survey part. We find the Forester to be a "stranger magnet". We have never had so many people stop and ask us about our vehicles. There have been about 12 to 15 people doing this. This is not a gigantic amount but this is New England, people just don't come up and start talking to you! This vehicle makes it happen, and while there is always a danger using small sample statistics, there have definitely been some very consistent trends.
- No one thought of it as a wagon, everyone thought of it as an SUV, a small SUV. My wife had a very nice 70 something gentleman follow her into a convenience store parking lot just to ask about her Forester. He was driving an old Legacy wagon with ~150K miles on it. He said it ran like the day it was new, and he is having a hard time parting with it... but he _really_ likes the Forester. My wife said his car was immaculate, but she was betting he would be soon parting with it. He thought it was a "great looking SUV".
- Everyone commented about liking SUVs but said most were just too big with bad fuel mileage. No one was disappointed when told low to mid 20s.
- Almost everyone asked about a "V6", conditioning has made folks think "6" vs. "4", not power characteristics.
- Most cringed when told of price differences. Most thought $20K for an L was great, but $25K for a loaded S+ was out of their shopping range.
- All loved all the standard features, especially those leaning towards the L, all loved the warrantee.
- All knew a little something about AWD, Subaru ads are being watched. All listened intently when told of real AWD vs. AWD-only-after-something-first-slips. This is certainly of interest here in MA, almost everyone asked about snow and ice performance.
So, if it were my business, I would offer the H6 across the board, and not make people buy an "L.L. Forester" to get it, or even the S+. Price is important. I would market it as a small SUV, maybe an suv , with all weather dependability due to real, honest to god, AWD. I would play on the AWD in All Weather Dependability. These folks wanted the same things my wife and I want, so if you build it, they will come.
While waiting for more recommendations, check out the Tires, tires, tires discussion too. (btw, 2 years ago this day I was touring the Botanic Garden at Edmunstun ).
And your flag gets "changed" once you logout and back in, as you've probably noticed. Steve Host Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Thanks for the tip on tires. Hey, coincidence the Botanic Gardens is 2 miles from my home. Hope you enjoyed your visit. BTW also looking for the messages on towing capacity (theory and actual experiences) on the Forester. I guess I would like to know if I could tow a pontoon (approx 2,000 lbs total w/ trailer no brakes) for 25 miles max. Apparently the pamphlet says 2,000 lbs but the owner manual says 2,000lbs but with brakes on the trailer.
Heavy duty SUV, heavy duty gas bills. I guess you get what you pay for, in a way. If your Trooper gets 16-18mpg, a Forester will probably get you 23-25mpg or so. Trooper has acres of room, so you might miss that. Both are reliable and if taken care of, should last a decade or more.
JC: I've pulled about 1500 lbs or so with my Forester, and it pulls OK. With that load it feels like a 2.0l, less peppy. Stopping is rather deliberate, so I can see how trailer brakes would help. If not, at least allow longer following distances.
Rachel: first of all, glad to hear you could walk away. Any high speed, total-loss accident is life-threatening.
I have a question about the impact. You said you were in each others' blind spot, but were you slightly ahead or behind the other driver?
If you are behind, and hit, generally you will understeer, and the vehicle has a natural tendency to correct itself, as long as the impact is not too violent. My guess is the other car was slightly behind you.
If you are ahead and get hit in the rear corner, you are forced into an immediate and nearly impossible to control oversteer situation. Your tail comes out from under you and even a pro would likely not have caught that kind of slide.
In fact, this is how police officers in pursuit stop runaway cars - hit them in the rear corner so they lose control.
Honestly, I don't think a BMW M3 would have done any better. A more nimble car helps some, but probably not enough to prevent the accident. A taller SUV would probably have rolled if it got sideways - it could have been much worse.
One thing that may help is stability control. My guess is such a system would apply a single brake - outside rear, to bring the car back in line.
A longer wheelbase may help a little, and more weight may help some, at least on the initial impact, though it could hurt later.
Know that you probably could not have done anything different, and your lil' Subie gave its life to protect you, may it RIP.
I want to thank you for the help in pricing the forester.I went to locol dealer who was giving me hard time in beginning and got better price.But I decided on the liberty instead.Cost more and not great mileage I know but I drove it and love it got it off lot same day.
Congrats, then. I test drove a Liberty and liked it. In fact, it's my favotire truck-based SUV in the class, so I can see the appeal. It's also the best selling small SUV right now, car or truck.
FWIW, to control oversteer, a front wheel brake is utilised. It depends on the system, of course. Some are more advanced than others and have the ability to use more than brake + work under manual braking (with your foot on the pedal) too.
Juice, you are exactly right. The other driver was just behind me and hit me/I hit her/we collided on my middle to rear driver's side. When I went down to the tow yard to see the car a few days ago I was shocked to see how relatively minor the body damage was back there compared with the total loss situation up front.
Anyhow - I am very grateful that the Soob gave its life for me - and grateful to hear that there was really nothing I could do to save the car or prevent the headlong into the center divider. This kind of message board contact helps tremendously - as I would otherwise doubtless be blaming myself or harping endlessly on the question of what could I have done differently?
Now I have to decide which model to get as a replacement - and I'm leaning towards the OBS 5 speed - can't really explain why, cause I really loved the Forester, but perhaps I'm feeling, "I did that. Let's give this one a try."
I'm glad you have been able to get some closure on your accident - very important for your long-term well being. I've thought about the same thing. If I had to replace Rufus, what would I get. I originally was looking at the OBS but it seemed really cheap compared to the Forester. The new generation OBS seems vastly improved, however, I would give it *very* serious consideration. Be sure to let us know what you decide.
Comments
I think an auto magazine once suggested that Subaru should be in the minivan market with an AWD minivan. That would definitely be nice! It can't be small though (at least Odyssey size, probably), as smaller minivans have historically not done well in the N.American market.
The Rendezvous topic has been pretty dead for the last few days for obvious reasons. Feel free to post your honest impressions of the vehicle in there if you wish; no need to soften the plus and minuses if you don't wish to ;-) BTW, was it a Versatrak version that you rented?
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
While I'm not suprised at the news of Subaru designing a larger SUV based on the Legacy chassis, I'm not sure if that will be a Forester. Maybe it's the Grand Forester we've been talking about for some time. I'd sure be disappointed if FHI decided to end the Impreza-chassis based approach anytime soon.
Ken
This was particularly distressing as I live in FL (and today a tropical storm passed thru, dumping several inches of rain in the area) so wet weather is a frequent occurance.
Interestingly enough, I only saw 3 other Foresters the whole trip, and the first one I saw was almost the mirror image of mine, a '02 S Blue Ridge Pearl with a Thule cartopper (mine is a '01 and I also had a Thule cartopper. It fits just fine on the factory racks, btw). It was weird, and I was also glad I decided on the '01, I like the cladding color better. Then on the return trip, we stopped to get gas, and a green L Forester pulled in directly behind me. I felt this kind of strange camaraderie, so I had to comment on our mutual Stubby-ness. She liked mine better (colorwise).
I also talked to many people who wanted to know how I liked the Forester. They (Foresters) seem to be a bit of a curiosity.
I averaged 24.61 mpg, with a high of 31.1 and a low of 20.4. I've now topped 4K total miles.
Luckily, I pulled up farther than usual (closer to the house) last night, as a tree in the neighbor's yard split apart in the wind. The Stubby would have been mushed had it been in it's normal spot.
aj
I'm wondering if this could be related to the tires? I'm also following up with Subaru. Has anyone else had this kind of a problem? Other than this, I the car has been great (35,000 miles so far...).
Please reply to csm66@att.net.
Thanks, Chris
Ross
there is even a 4wd version in japan (they get all the good stuff!) a 4wd stream with "outbacked" styling would be the perfect vehicle for me.
I reviewed Automotive News, and they specifically mention the "Impreza-based Forester" getting redesigned. So at least they think it'll stay on Impreza mechanicals. I hope the press heard it was getting the rear suspension from the Outback and then mistook that for a platform swap. That would mean we get the best of both worlds - light weight with better packaging.
I don't like the Traviq in its current form. I'd like to see Subaru have at it with a boxer engine, AWD, longitunidally mounted drivetrain, and indy rear suspension. Then I'd consider one.
Right now, honestly, I'd just pick a minivan.
But then I'd give up the chance to drive in the Pine Barrens, like we did on Saturday. We drove on "unimproved roads", which means loose sand, sometimes deep, with some challenging portions of mud and a few water crossings (there was always an easier bypass if you prefer that). We did about 20+ miles overall, and had quite a good time.
The Forester was great. A little wide, believe it or not, so the trees were scraping up against both sides. The Outback Sport in front of me fared better in this regard.
We had two BRATs and an old hatchback, too, and those 4WD models did very well. An XT6 got stuck once in deep sand, and another time after a water crossing flooded his intake. It was wild - we pulled the plugs and cranked the starter and water actually shot out of the cylinders. Believe it or not, we actually got him up and running again!
I'll share pictures after I upload them, but it was a hoot. I did a nice water crossing myself, a couple actually, as did Lark in his black Forester. The plastic cover under the engine helped a LOT. Skid plates would have been even better, as I hit bottom once or twice (no big deal, though).
I did cross one of the mud pits, but not the deepest ones that stuck even a huge Monty that was with us and had mud tires. A BRAT actually crossed successfully after several attempts, once he learned to avoid the ruts.
Any how, we had a blast and Sandy is now filthy, filthy. Though the trails are light-to-medium, I'm sure this is more than 99.9% of SUV owners ever do, and the Foresters managed nicely.
I love AWD!
-juice
-juice
All in all a great venue to show the versatility and fun factor of our little square Subarus. It was also good that so many people got out and had a diversion, however brief, from the tragic events of last week.
Ed
I tried to get the wife to look at the Saturn L-series and Toyota Prius just as a basis of comparison. She had no interest. After last winter's snow and driving the OB a couple of times in the mess, she only wanted a vehicle with AWD.
I know, I know..."traitor to the Crew", right? Actually, I just wanted her to be convinced that whatever car she chose, would be the one she would be happy with 8-10 years down the road.
Ron
A couple other things I want to ask all you other Forester owners. It's been wet here in Wisconsin lately, and I've noticed that the insides of the windows seem to collect a lot of moisture. The defroster doesn't seem to help much with it either. When I have time I'm going to get some Windex and wash the inside of the windshield and see if that helps. Anyone else notice this or have any tips on how to avoid it?
Second, what's the recommended schedule for tire rotation? I noticed that they rotated my tires for the first time with yesterday's 7500 mile service. At first I was miffed b/c I thought (from checking www.my.subaru.com's maintenance schedule) that tire rotation wasn't listed under the 7500 mile checkup, but with a little further checking I discovered tire rotation isn't listed ON ANY of the maintenance schedule entries. I know this board has talked about that but I couldn't find any of the threads quickly.
Still loving the Subie and looking forward to my first winter driving with AWD!
Steve
Steve: I think Subaru may be leaving that schedule up to the tire manufacturer. 7500 miles sounds right to me. Reminds me - I'm overdue.
You can use the A/C compressor to remove humidity from the inside of the vehicle. Even with the temp on heat, it still functions to remove the humid air, and the windows won't fog. I cycle it on for just a minute or two, that's usually enough.
-juice
-Frank P.
Ron -- Congrats!
Steve -- I'd still clean the windows using an alcohol-based cleaner (ammonia tends to streak). The cleaner the window, the less stuff there is on it for moisture to cling to.
Ken
Ed
-juice
I think what you're hearing is the relay for the shift interlock. It's there so you can't shift into gear without the brake peddle being depressed. Mine does the same thing. Totaly normal.
Chuck
"Slapshot". Great line; great movie; one of my all time favorites!
Len
Ed
Bob
Len
Some of you answered a few of my questions back in December 1999 when I bought a 2000 Forester L in beautiful SilverThorn. I have loved that car and cared for it for 20 months - until last Thursday when, without a moment's anticipation - I found myself in a horrible accident on the freeway, which left my Subaru a total loss and myself, fortunatly, able to walk away virtually unscathed.
As a result,I have two sets of questions for any of you who are willing to help me think things through.
First, what happened was that another vehicle and I bumped into each other (in each other's blind spots) at about 65 mph. I lost control of the steering: I could not regain control of the car and ended up veering left across the left lane and crashing into the center divider, before bouncing off and coming to rest in the center shoulder facing the wrong way. Although I am grateful that the car protected me on impact, I wonder why I could not regain control after the other car and I bumped together (and i'm unclear who bumped who. Neither of us was making a lane change, but there was a gravel truck spewing chunks of gravel onto our windshields just in front, and it took place two mornings after last week's horrifying events). What does it mean that I lost control or that the car lost control? I was braking - but not too much - as I was on the freeway. Thoughts about what happened, and how to drive under such suddenly terrifying conditions are appreciated.
Second - I want to get another Subaru - but i'm not sure whether to replace the Forester with another (the new model probably, as second hand 2000 5 speed Ls are hard to find where I live in the Bay Area) - or whether to go for the Impreza 2.5 or the OBS. My budget is limited to what the insurance is giving me plus a little bit more - so I'm not sure I can get a new vehicle again, although the 2.9 financing is an option. I loved the Forester but I'm thinking of getting a model that travels lower to the ground. Those of you with experience of more than one model please speak up or refer me to earlier posts (I have been scanning this board, and OBS too).
Thank you very much in advance for your thoughts.
Best wishes,
rachel
-mike
Both the OB wagon and OB sedan have a longer wheelbase than the Forester. This means a bit more road stability and more comfortable ride than the Forester. Sitting in the driver's seat and driving the OB sedan compared to our OB wagon was amazingly similar. If I hadn't looked in the back mirror, I could have sworn I was driving my OB wagon. The sedan has a very smooth and refined ride. When driving, it also "feels" heavier than the Forester.
Keep in mind though, I believe the standover height of all 3 vehicles is the same IIRC. If you're looking for an AWD vehicle lower to the ground, you may want to check out the Legacy sedan. My sister-in-law owns a 2000 L and she loves it. AND, it seems to have a bit more "pep" than the OB.
Again, sorry to hear about your accident but glad to hear that you were not injured.
Ron
I too have a noticeable jerk in my Forester, but if I scrunch down in the seat I'm not quite as noticable.
Dave Peterson
Glad to hear you weren't badly hurt (I'll bet you're still shaking though). Here are my two shillings worth: The Forester is a super car (I love mine too), but it has a bit more body roll than an Outback (and much more than a standard Legacy). The Imprezas are also very flat and stable in turns, although the OB Sport feels more like an Outback in that respect. So, if stability is a concern, but you want loads of cargo space, the Legacy wagon would seem an excellent (and affordable) choice. I wish I had some sage advice about "why" you lost control, but in similar experiences I was always too busy praying to take notes. My guess is that, like most of us, you simply over-corrected. When your vehicle starts to take off in a direction you don't intend, the natural inclination is to correct it NOW, AND HARD! Unfortunately, inertia comes around in its own sweet time and by the time it does, the steering wheel has probably been turned 30 degrees more than needed, which sends you off in another unintended direction (and perhaps sideways as well). My first experience with that came when I was 19 and hit a patch of black-ice. Seconds later (seemed like hours) I was facing south in the north-bound lane; big trucks on both sides of me. Reacting to the unexpected is, I guess, the name of the game. Actually, Its precisely because anything can happen on the road that I drive Subarus, and only Subarus.
I'm sorry to hear about your accident. That must have been a terrifying experience.
As to why you couldn't regain control, that's hard to say. At highway speeds, even small disturbances (like the bump) can be amplified due to the speed and send you flying off in one direction. As mentioned earlier, over-correction can be a culprit, but it all happens so quickly that it's often hard to do anything. Don't feel bad about it -- even trained professional drivers can't recover from accidents.
Try shopping around the dealers. I also live in the Bay area and have seen lots of inventory building up at Carlsen Subaru and Santa Cruz Subaru. Auto sales have slowed considerably recently so you should be able to swing a decent deal.
I've driven other Subaru models and each one delivers a different experience. The Legacys (OB, L and GT) are on one end of the spectrum being bigger, smoother and plush. The Imprezas are spartan, but much more nimble and peppy. The Forester falls in between the two.
Ken
I live in New Brunswick , Canada where we get lots of snow and icy roads during our long winter season. To be on the safe side, most people put winter tires instead of the all seasons ones.
Which tires would you recommend for winter and which tires would be the best for the rest of the year.
Thanks and keep up the good work.
JC
PS How do you get the cute little flag next to your name?
Stephen
"Emergency disarming
If you cannot disarm the system using the transmitter (i.e. the transmitter
is lost, broken or the transmitter battery is too weak), you can
disarm the system without using the transmitter.
To disarm the system:
1. Unlock the door with the key and then open the door.
2. The alarm will sound.
3. Insert the key into the ignition switch and cycle it from the "LOCK" to the "ON" position three (3) times within 5 seconds."
Regards,
Frank
The dealer verfied the concern and replaced the head unit under warranty. I'm now at 61K miles and the problem is coming back.
I'm suspecting there's something with the factory alarm head unit.
Anyone else experience the same?
Ken
The bottom line is that I/we _still_ like these vehicles. I tend to get bored with vehicles but our Foresters still intrigue me. I love the engineering. I get the biggest kick out of how the gas overflow drain goes out _through_ the mud flap!
The AWD is seamless and works exactly as advertised, although I like the balance afforded by my 50/50 split better. We both have had a comfortable N.E. Winter under our belt, not to mention street-flooding torrential rains, and rave about the balance and control. We will both demand AWD from now on.
My wife never complains about anything with her Forester, and, well, that is unusual. Her heated seats are GREAT and that is an option she thought she would never use. I wish I had them in my L. She loves the Moonroof.
I feel my L is the better value, but hers is the better vehicle overall. I _still_ would not pay the money for an S+ though, and she would do it again in a heartbeat. I'm the Engineer and she is the bean-counter, so go figure.
I have averaged about 21 MPG in mixed driving, with the spread being 19 to 23, she has averaged about 19.5, with the spread being 17 to 21. Neither of us drive slow so we aren't complaining. We also have crappy oxygenated fuel here in MA so that doesn't help.
We have both been back to the dealer once. I asked about what seemed to me to be a "rough" throw-out bearing in the clutch actuation that wasn't there when new, and she had a slightly crooked steering wheel. They aligned her vehicle (4 wheel), and told me my roughness, which they _could_ feel, "was normal", after calling for factory assistance. I was mostly concerned that it get documented for the future, so we both came away pleased. The fewer times anyone touches my vehicle the better.
There are a few things I would change. I would like a couple more inches of legroom, even if it was at the expense of the back seat, which never gets used in my Forester. I would like the pedals to be a bit farther apart also. This always reminds me that it is a "small" vehicle, and makes me wonder if I am just too big for it. The couple of more inches of legroom would probably solve this complaint as my legs would be straighter to the pedals.
I would like more power, specifically more torque. This is more noticeable to me with my wife's AT. These vehicles are sprightly but my MT is much more so. I admire the torque curve they have designed into the H4, but I still want more. My wife says that if I only drove hers it would be much less of a concern, that it is the switching back and forth that makes it stick out. Perhaps a 5 speed AT would lessen the difference. We would both buy an H6 if available, neither would buy a turbo 4.
The syncros in the MT seem "sluggish". I never grind but I "catch a tooth" way too often, usually going into 3rd gear from 2nd. It is also difficult to get into reverse when cold, not the outside temperature, just the vehicle. Even in Summer, first-use of the day is difficult. I am going to change the trans fluid to Mobil 1 gear oil when I get a chance, and see if that fixes both problems. I sometimes wish I had the AT, so an AT with the H6 and a 45/55 split would serve me well.
The cup holder is flimsy and blocks access when open. Seems like an afterthought. I feel like I am going to break it every time I touch it.
That's basically it. I have added the "weathershields" to keep the rain out of my lap, and I want to add the 18mm rear bar to kill some of the understeer and lean, make the handling less "pedestrian", but so far so good. We both feel like we got good value and would do it again.
Here's the survey part. We find the Forester to be a "stranger magnet". We have never had so many people stop and ask us about our vehicles. There have been about 12 to 15 people doing this. This is not a gigantic amount but this is New England, people just don't come up and start talking to you! This vehicle makes it happen, and while there is always a danger using small sample statistics, there have definitely been some very consistent trends.
- No one thought of it as a wagon, everyone thought of it as an SUV, a small SUV. My wife had a very nice 70 something gentleman follow her into a convenience store parking lot just to ask about her Forester. He was driving an old Legacy wagon with ~150K miles on it. He said it ran like the day it was new, and he is having a hard time parting with it... but he _really_ likes the Forester. My wife said his car was immaculate, but she was betting he would be soon parting with it. He thought it was a "great looking SUV".
- Everyone commented about liking SUVs but said most were just too big with bad fuel mileage. No one was disappointed when told low to mid 20s.
- Almost everyone asked about a "V6", conditioning has made folks think "6" vs. "4", not power characteristics.
- Most cringed when told of price differences. Most thought $20K for an L was great, but $25K for a loaded S+ was out of their shopping range.
- All loved all the standard features, especially those leaning towards the L, all loved the warrantee.
- All knew a little something about AWD, Subaru ads are being watched. All listened intently when told of real AWD vs. AWD-only-after-something-first-slips. This is certainly of interest here in MA, almost everyone asked about snow and ice performance.
So, if it were my business, I would offer the H6 across the board, and not make people buy an "L.L. Forester" to get it, or even the S+. Price is important. I would market it as a small SUV, maybe an suv
Regards,
cub reporter Frank
And your flag gets "changed" once you logout and back in, as you've probably noticed.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
BTW also looking for the messages on towing capacity (theory and actual experiences) on the Forester. I guess I would like to know if I could tow a pontoon (approx 2,000 lbs total w/ trailer no brakes) for 25 miles max. Apparently the pamphlet says 2,000 lbs but the owner manual says 2,000lbs but with brakes on the trailer.
Thanks
JC
-mike
Heavy duty SUV, heavy duty gas bills. I guess you get what you pay for, in a way. If your Trooper gets 16-18mpg, a Forester will probably get you 23-25mpg or so. Trooper has acres of room, so you might miss that. Both are reliable and if taken care of, should last a decade or more.
JC: I've pulled about 1500 lbs or so with my Forester, and it pulls OK. With that load it feels like a 2.0l, less peppy. Stopping is rather deliberate, so I can see how trailer brakes would help. If not, at least allow longer following distances.
Rachel: first of all, glad to hear you could walk away. Any high speed, total-loss accident is life-threatening.
I have a question about the impact. You said you were in each others' blind spot, but were you slightly ahead or behind the other driver?
If you are behind, and hit, generally you will understeer, and the vehicle has a natural tendency to correct itself, as long as the impact is not too violent. My guess is the other car was slightly behind you.
If you are ahead and get hit in the rear corner, you are forced into an immediate and nearly impossible to control oversteer situation. Your tail comes out from under you and even a pro would likely not have caught that kind of slide.
In fact, this is how police officers in pursuit stop runaway cars - hit them in the rear corner so they lose control.
Honestly, I don't think a BMW M3 would have done any better. A more nimble car helps some, but probably not enough to prevent the accident. A taller SUV would probably have rolled if it got sideways - it could have been much worse.
One thing that may help is stability control. My guess is such a system would apply a single brake - outside rear, to bring the car back in line.
A longer wheelbase may help a little, and more weight may help some, at least on the initial impact, though it could hurt later.
Know that you probably could not have done anything different, and your lil' Subie gave its life to protect you, may it RIP.
-juice
-juice
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/45992/article.html
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Well, check out a Legacy L, as well as the ones you mention.
-juice
Juice, you are exactly right. The other driver was just behind me and hit me/I hit her/we collided on my middle to rear driver's side. When I went down to the tow yard to see the car a few days ago I was shocked to see how relatively minor the body damage was back there compared with the total loss situation up front.
Anyhow - I am very grateful that the Soob gave its life for me - and grateful to hear that there was really nothing I could do to save the car or prevent the headlong into the center divider. This kind of message board contact helps tremendously - as I would otherwise doubtless be blaming myself or harping endlessly on the question of what could I have done differently?
Now I have to decide which model to get as a replacement - and I'm leaning towards the OBS 5 speed - can't really explain why, cause I really loved the Forester, but perhaps I'm feeling, "I did that. Let's give this one a try."
Thank you all again, and best wishes,
Rachel
Ross