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And as far as performance is concerned, I don't care if Caddy had a 1000 hp, Autobahn eating monster with a 6-speed manual, sport suspension and a big fat whale tail a la 911 Porsche, if it is sharing a showroom floor with a Front wheel drive DTS sporting wire wheels, a landau roof and curb feelers, with some greasy slimeball salesman named "Slick rick" trying to sell me a car with an AARP discount, I still wouldn't go near a Caddy dealer.
And a line of pickup truck based SUV's that were enrolled in a "Pimp my Ride" workshop is not how you "One-up" the competiton... Last I checked, Benz, BMW and Audi weren't scrambling to build an EXT fighter...
Sorry, Cadillac will always be the "Standard of GM"... A Standard given by those who have never experienced what a real luxury performance BRAND brings to the table. It's more than just one or two cars mixed in with a bunch of duds.
I guess everybody dislikes something and "anythings" bone is with GM.
Rocky
What's wrong with AARP discounts. I've used them since 50. I'll bet if I stop at the BMW dealer they'll find an equivalent--maybe GARP discount oder Deutsche ARP.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Bentley is now owned by Volkswagen, and is not the same thing as a Rolls anymore. Bentley does have two E's.
Rocky
Rocky
btw Which Nissan are you looking at?
I didn't look inside to see if there was a bedpan on the front seat though... :P
Your crazy man. :P
Rocky
Rocky
GM can't control the dealers who add the junk, but they can make it clear that they don't support such image-killing accessories.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Why? because, like Lincoln, the Cadillac marque still represents a stodgy, elderly, and pedestrian line of cars. And if it ain't cars, it's the over the top, gaudy, "blingbling" schoolbuses that have attracted the Rap artists and sportfigures of the country. Sure, there are V-series cars, but even those don't break the mold that Caddy has formed over the years.
BOT, Seriously though, when you guys are defending Cadillac and aiming for "Standard of the World", what exactly are you aiming for? Standard of what World?
Tuetonic Autobahn eating supersedans? I don't think Cadillac there....
Ultra fast, sleek, supercoupes and convertibles like a Qvale Mangusta, Keonsigg (sp?), Bugatti Veryon, Carrera GT, Spyker C8, Mosler M12 Seriously... Caddilac? roflmao
Hard core, offroad monsters softened by the finest leather, latest technological wizardry and amenities? The Escalade wouldn't stand a chance in a real offroading situation...
Superlux cruisers like Rolls, bentley and Maybach?
I don't think Cadillac when I think of ANY of the above criteria. And it is absolutely silly to argue they can be "THE STANDARD" when their is no definition to shoot for in the first place.
If any marque is becoming stodgy, elderly, and pedestrian, it's Lexus.
Germans build one hell of a road car.
If any marque is becoming stodgy, elderly, and pedestrian, it's Lexus.
I could agree with that one, a japanese Buick/Cadillac. Thing is, you get the quality and ergonomic aspects to show for it. Lexus quality is top notch. It's rich, warm and built very well. More of a "Standard" than Caddy... But if you want THE STANDARD, you turn to cars like Audi, Bentley and Rolls.
Although, others will claim that Lexus is THE STANDARD for interior quality...
I'd agree that Lexus is the benchmark for interior quality but not so much design these days. Stepping inside a Lexus is sort of like "been there, done that" these days. They were pretty dazzling when they debuted.
I like to keep my standards grounded in reality, therefore a Rolls or Bentley is out of the question. Anybody can build an awesome car if cost isn't a factor. Mercedes-Benz used to be like this. They'd build the car first and then put a price on it - and people were willing to pay it until Lexus flipped this whole paradigm on its ear. Now, that Mercedes has to build to a cost, it is hobbled in the quality and reliability department. Cadillac can build a car to cost and still remain pretty-much trouble-free.
So MB quality and reliability issues may be a bit exageratted in my experience. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another.
I like to keep my standards grounded in reality, therefore a Rolls or Bentley is out of the question. Anybody can build an awesome car if cost isn't a factor.
Exactly, but if you wanna be THE STANDARD, (whatever the hell that means anyways) you gotta be the end all, be all to the automotive universe. Cost is not factor here.
Heck a Honda Civic could be the Standard of the world because it nails so many segments woth just one car. My S2000 could be a standard because how many 4 cylinder motors out there can hit 9000 RPM's reliably and still get 30mpg. A Kia Rio could be a standard because it is the cheapest brand new car out there.
No, Standard of the world is a brand that all others aspire to. A brand that everyone looks to and says "Ya, I gotta have one of those". A brand that people would give their left nut just to own and treasure. Sorry, but outside the realm of GM fans, Caddy is not a brand that all others in the world look up to and want to emulate. Frankly there are SO many other carmakers out there now that just do the "Standard" thing a heck of a lot better. Have been for a long time.
This isn't the 1950's anymore, that's all.
Is the fastest car the standard? Well, then every car should aspire to be one of those seldom-seen exotics you mentioned. It's pretty sad when only the uber-wealthy can own the car that's the standard. How about race cars? Shoot, funny cars and fuel dragsters are fast. Maybe NASCAR racers?
Is a car that can go anywhere the standard? Well, then the crown belongs to Hummer.
If "Ya, I gotta have one of those!" is the standard, it most definately and truly is Cadillac in my opinion, or if I'm being more sensible - a Buick.
Get outside your "Practical" box Lemko. When you were a kid, didn't you have posters of dream cars on your walls? Mine, a 911 SC, and a Merc Gullwing were my faves. But I also had pics of Countach's, 308GTS and ZR-1 Corvettes. Even nowadays, my recording space I have pics of Aston Martin DB-4's and Porsche Spyders. Heck my desktop here at work has a pair of AMV8's decorating my screen. These were "Standards" in my book. Revolutionary, ahead of their time, forward thinking.
Sorry, I see Caddy's (And Lexus for that matter) as run of the mill, generic transportation with a few perks. Nice cars, but nothing that has the competition shaking in their boots to match or out-do.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/country/acf/newsID/2061110.009/cadillac/cad- illac-sls-at-auto-china-2006
For some reason, I don't think that Cadillac wants to compete with Lexus or BMW. Maybe it is because they feel that they have to price their cars cheaper (after discounts and rebates) than the other luxury brands or maybe they feel that they can't bring in a better car a cheaper price.
Lastly, I just don't get the DTS. Is Cadillac still trying to lure former Oldsmobile buyers? What is the competition for this car, the Avalon? A person under 40 would not be be caught dead in this car.
Seems to me that if you can't even make it in your home country, you've got a problem.
Of course anything is possible given enough time but current dynamics at GM and the market don't bode well for Cadillac making the great strides it would take for Cadillac to become a "world standard", whatever that is.
Gotta go, I smell 1487 coming........
The W126 560SEL was a great car, but today's S550 surpasses it any way you could think of. Sure the outgoing W220 S430 wasn't Mercedes at its best, but this ranting about how badly Mercedes has fallen is just as tired and outdated as people harping about wire wheels and cloth tops on Cadillacs.
You should take a look as the CLS, SL, CL or S-Class, then you'll know that you're living in the past when it comes to Mercedes. The new S and lastest SL have proven (so far with the S) be those very standards that Cadillac doesn't have a chance in hell of matching.
M
Clearly a throwback remark. Very few non-GM lifers aspire to own a Cadilac outside of the Escalade and no one outside of GM pep rally aspires to own a Buick. A Buick is an utter and complete joke compared to a Mercedes, BMW and certain Lexi.
M
Bingo, Cadillac gave up too much ground and this is what they're stuck doing all the time. The new CTS will prove whether or not they can truly answer the challenge presented by a trio of new cars, the G35, IS350 and 335i. No excuses this time this is the car that is supposed to be more than merely "competitive" with this class, it should have them beat in some areas and be fiercely competitive in others. You can't expect them to build a class leader coming from at best the middle of the class which is where the current CTS resides, well actually its towards the back of the class.
For some reason, I don't think that Cadillac wants to compete with Lexus or BMW.
I see what you're saying here, but I disagree. The V-Series models prove they want to been seen as the equal to Mercedes/BMW and the switch to RWD says that also.
The DTS is an antique. Some GM fans will tell you that this car competes with the Lexus LS, Mercedes S and BMW 7-Series, but they live in a fantasy world. When a competitor has twice as many gears in their tranny its time to call it a day. The DTS is to Cadillac what the ES is to Lexus, a throwback, difference is the ES is more up to day technology wise.
M
As Yogi Berra once said, "It ain't over till its over", and in this case, Caddy has more lives than a cat.
Yeah we've heard this (excuse) for years now. It is always wait till next year. Competition moves the game onward and then it is yet again wait till next year.
Seriously though I don't think GM has the funds to make anything special for Cadillac at this point.
M
Not at all, I did just the opposite, I deleted the running boards. Don't care for them. Not functional. But, you're wrong about the Slade having more gagetry than the Navigator. All it has is the big grunt engine, and while we're on that, the 5.4L Triton engine is old and embarrasing? How long has that tired old Northstar been out there unimproved and unrefined? The 5.4L has been brought ont in 2,4 & 3V versions, each more efficient than the last. No, you're right about so much, but not about the Navigator. It's at least as good, in some different ways, albeit, as the Escatahoe.
So being "The Standard of the World" isn't about being the fastest, most expensive, etc, it boils down to more than that. I'm not saying Cadillac, is currently the
"Standard of the World" now but I believe in Rick Wagoner, enough that he will have the Cadillac brand back at the top of the mountain once again within 3 year time frame. He will give me a great product that's great enough to at least confidently argue them as being
"The Standard of the World" brand once again.
Rocky
The Slade, as I proved has more "Gadgetology" then the ExpiGator. You can look away from the 800lb Gorilla but NV, he's still standing their right in front of you pal.
Rocky
P.S. The Northstar has had like 3-4 makeovers in its lifetime. The latest was adding VVT to it in 2005. I do agree GM, needs to add direct injection to it and/or make a brand new Northstar.
As for 8 gears in the Lexus LS460? That alone would frighten me away from the car. It's a darn passenger car, not a semi tractor! If that transmission goes out of warranty, one better take out a second mortgage and repent their sins. Transmission specialists everywhere will be sending their kids to Ivy League schools.
You sound like a GM hater. Do you have a study with data on this or are you living in the past after problems with vehicles in the 80s or 90s?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky