Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Anyway, if my NYC suburb is an accurate reflection of the changing tastes of the affluent, the Range Rover is now the favorite expensive SUV. I'm seeing fewer Escalades than I was a couple of years ago. Successful plumbing contractors still drive 'em, but the Wall St. investment banker types have fallen in love with the RR.
I notice lots of kids are drooling over RRs too, and some of the younger trust funders around here actually get one (or the keys to their moms)
Caddy needs to keep up the progress with its cars. Don't stop now, as the competition jumps ahead all the time.
I keep my GM vehicles for 10 years on average, not 3. My friends on the east coast have had mixed results with ALL makes, including my friend who's '00 Accord went :lemon: :lemon: :lemon: on him at only 130k. Another friend bought a '98 Accord coupe w/ 120k on it that she HAD to have for 8 grand, even though I showed her an ad for a '97 Acura coupe (same car, essentially) w/65k miles for $6,800, and she lost the tranny 2 MONTHS LATER (private buy, sorry Charlie). They aren't posting here, and neither are your friends, I believe. MOST of the people here SEEM to have an unremarkable experience w/ GM, not great, but not TERRIBLE. YOU seem to be the only one that cries the blues over GM here.
I had a beautiful 1979 Buick Electra Park Avenue isn Charcoal Grey Firemist with a silver top and "Oyster" leather interior and the chrome factory wheels. It also had that excellent 403 V-8. I had absolutely no problems with that car. Unfortunately, I totalled it in an accident in 1989
pletko:
Take for instance, the last four cars my parents have had. 2 Lesabres and two Park Avenues. All four were top-trim "Ultra" or "Limited" models. They are/were indestructible and lasted 18 and 17 years, plus 12 on the current Park Ave and 8 on the current LeSabre. Very little work done on the Last two(the first two cost more to maintain, but the idea that they fall apart after 3-4 years... 18 years is a good run for any car.)
laurasdada:
In my 25 years of car buying, I had never bought a domestic 'till my '99 Chrysler 300M. Really enjoyed that car. While not as well built or as completely reliable as my Japaneese fleet, I really have nothing bad to say about it. But, I wasn't going to keep it past 70,000 miles
displacedtexan:
My Mom's 1978 Olds 98 was also very reliable. I don't recall my Dad grousing about any mechanical problems
I don't see any BAD comments about TERRIBLE products here, do you?
The new issue of Motor Trend arrived in the mail and our eyes were instantly attracted to this story that just went live on motortrend.com. The MT crew has learned that the supercharged V8 slated for use in the next-gen Cadillac CTS-V will be none other than a "detuned" version of the 7.0L LS7 powerplant debuting in the Corvette Blue Devil, or rather, Corvette Z07. The MT editors expect the version used in the CTS-V to produce about 600 horsepower, or around 100 horses short of what the Z07 will produce.
I do know that the emission systems out now to meet todays regs are very expensive.
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/12686/2007-mercedes-benz-e320-bluetec.html
I could only speculate on any other diesel availability here – but if BMW decides to bring their 335d to the US, I’d probably at least test drive one.
And I have seen no credible reports that GM \ Caddy will market a diesel anytime soon.
- Ray
Torque addict . . .
PS
Cadillac will have to do better than the last diesel they offered.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/01/autos/diesels/
One quote:
"Neither Ford nor GM has any plans to try again with diesel passenger cars or SUVs for their home market. It wouldn't be cost-effective for them, a Ford spokesman said, because Ford cars available in Europe as diesels aren't sold here. And the market is too small for them to develop U.S.-only diesels."
The Bluetec system meets today's emmission regs. Well it will starting January '08.
Issue is that the tier 2 BIN 5 requirements are todays standards. It is the next set of standards that will require a breakthru in diesel emission technology. sure the makers can always figure something out to meet them but at what cost? Mercedes can probably get away with adding another couple thousand but few others can do it.
but then again engineers are very creative and breakthrus will probably come.
A Caddy SRX with that nice 2.9L diesel would be a sweet ride in my book.
If synthetic fuel can be made out of coal at a cost a $1 per gallon (~$40 to $45 per barrel), I don't see the current prices for gasoline staying high too long.
Like I said good for you, my experience has been different. And my friends aren't posting on here because unlike you and I, they have a life, did you ever think of that?
All one has to do is look at GM's history or compare any of their cars today to the competition and we can see the type of crap they've passed onto us:
Many of their cars still have TERRIBLE FIT AND FINISH
TERRIBLE RESALE VALUE
PIPE DREAM LIKE ECOLOGY TECH- : FlexFuel. Where is FlexFuel available? In MIchigan, and that's the only state it's available? What about the other states? Oh and this type of fuel costs more than what we're currently using... Why not go with a tried and true technology--HYBRID. But oh, they can't do that, cause those darn [non-permissible content removed] invented it :sick: . And they can't let those [non-permissible content removed] upstage them. They've been upstaging them for over 30 years now. Get used to it GM. And don't tell me this isn't their mentality, cause I"ve seen this blatant racism from GM broadcasted on national television.
TERRIBLE LACK OF ATTENTION TO DETAILS.. Their idea of detail is putting the seat belt anchor onto the driver and passenger seats (yeah, real cute GM : :sick: )
Terrible weight balancing. ( I know, bcause I just recently rented a Chevrolet Impala which besides having terrible weight balancing, sounded like it had a roaring lion in the trunk (exhaust system) RIDICULOUS.
Thirsty engines compared to the competition
No innovation or innovation that doesn't keep up with the competition, it just copies it
And what do you have to say about the other blogger on here that claims unless you buy a Cadillac don't spend your money on GM. Their mid grade stuff isn't worth anyone's money. He's right on the mark.
Standard of the World is the biggest joke. Cadillac doesn't know the first thing about making a world class automobile.
Companies that make world class automobiles can COMPETE effectively. GM hasn't been able to do that in the U.S.A. market for DECADES.. Quite frankly, I don't really think they care about winning over the U.S.A. market anymore. The U.S.A. market is merely their test track.
It really is sad, because they produce beautiful stuff in other countries. I've seen it and touched it with my own two eyes and hands
http://www.e85refueling.com/
You also mention rental cars as your basis for grading. I rented a 2005 Camry in Victoria BC. It was OK but no better than the Malibu I got a couple months before in Hawaii. The Malibu had more usable trunk space and felt roomier in the front. Both got decent mileage. Neither one handled or would keep up with the Passat diesel I owned at that time.
If resale is such a big issue buy a used vehicle and bypass the loss. If you think you can trade a Honda after a year and get a good price you are not very realistic.
http://e85prices.com/
You obviously haven't seen my '04 Ranier or '04 K3500
TERRIBLE RESALE VALUE
That is a fallacy that compares original MSRP to values 3-5 years later. The fact of the matter is that most Japanese cars sell at or near MSRP (with good reason), while most GM products sell at or below DEALER INVOICE (again, because of perception, with good reason). If you compare 5 yr old prices vs. what was actually paid, resale becomes MUCH closer.
My 78 Olds diesel ran OK for the time period that I owned it. The turbohydramatic 200 transmission was in the process of falling apart about the time that I traded it in. I think some of the weight saving schemes that GM used in the late 70's into the mid-80's were not good engineering.
Now if Caddy brings that dandy V6 diesel they will be in good shape. Ready to compete with MB & BMW.
Had you been paying attention to my previous post I stated E85 was available in Michigan only with a question mark at the end of the sentence. That would have made it apparent to anyone, that it wasn't a statement of fact. However I did know that E85 is of limited availability. It's available in the MidWest only
So if the fuel is only 15-20% less, you're actually spending more per month on fuel - which increases the profits. There's a a reason Bush and the rest of Congress is all for E85 - it increases profits.
A bit off. More like 25%.
EPA fuel-economy estimates for flex-fuel models reveal that E85 reduces gas mileage by 21 to 31 percent during city driving and 20 to 34 percent while on the highway.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center-article_104/
Just one year ago E85 cost a bit more than gas. Now that it is cheaper and seems to be getting cheaper in the long run it has a pretty good chance of becoming a viable fuel source.
Also, most of the E85 vehicles to date are big trucks and things like the Crown Vic. They suffer even more because most drivers whomp on the gas harder to compensate for the noticeably poorer HP and torque. So you get a small compounding effect in real driving unless you drive like a grandmother.
2007 GMC Sierra Classic(1500) 2wd
Gas: 14/19
E85: 11/14
21% less city, 25% less highway
2008 Grand Marquis
Gas: 15/23(18 avg)
E85: 11/16(13avg)
27% less city, 30% less highway.
It's an enormous effect for most vehicles. Basically your highway mileage goes down to what your city is and your city drops into the near single digits.
The EPA is factoring E85 as $2.10 a gallon, which is horribly unrealistic. $2.75 is closer to reality.
http://e85prices.com/
If you are in a green state/area, you are essentially paying nearly gasoline prices. Which means more cost to drive per year. (though it does pollute less and is much more renewable).
The environuts love E85 as it pollutes less. The megacorps love it because it makes them more money. And our politicians are all for it as it makes them look good either way.
Too bad it's coming out of my pocket.
I went to the epa website and it list only nine 2008's so far but they most all have about a 25% decrease in fuel economy over the gas version. For some reason the worse case is 30% (old Crown Vic and Grand Marquis) and that is the one you picked as your example! What a coincidence!! The others seem to be almost exactly 25/26%. BUT we will have to see how others change as they get added. I am really interested in the Impala sized vehicles.
The only regular sized/volume car they list is the Avenger and it is about a 25% decrease so I would look for the same on all mid and smaller vehicles. Surely no "massive" decrease.
Yes, at this time E85 is not a better deal cost wize but give it a couple years it will become more cost effective.
Which ones are those? The finish is comparable with most others. Maybe you are still thinking about 10-15 years-ago?
"All one has to do is look at GM's history or compare any of their cars today to the competition and we can see the type of crap they've passed onto us:"
Yes, but it was no different than comparable domestic vehicles at that time. Yes, most did have poor fit and finish at real close inspection, but those cars held up pretty well and I still see them on the road.
"Terrible weight balancing. ( I know, bcause I just recently rented a Chevrolet Impala which besides having terrible weight balancing, sounded like it had a roaring lion in the trunk (exhaust system) RIDICULOUS."
Weight balancing. The Impala is a big car and in general weight balancing is really only an issue with a sports car. The Impala and like cars are no different from each other as far as balancing. For any large car weight balancing is probably the lowest priority. I have read quite a few reviews on cars of this size including the Impala and weight balancing after driving never came up.
"Thirsty engines compared to the competition."
GM as a whole has pretty good mileage compared to the competition. I don't have the figures but I did see an article last year that showed GM vehicles over-all to be vary competitive in mileage, especially their trucks. They also had the best mileage for a domestic brand. If you have any information on mileage versus the competition I would be curious to read it.
"FlexFuel. Where is FlexFuel available? In Michigan, and that's the only state it's available?"
As mentioned there are many places in the midwest where one can get this corn based fuel. There are several manufactures that offer these corn burners with Ford being a big one as well. I personally don't find this type of flex fuel very good other than helping the environment. The fuel is better for performance but even though it is less money, the fuel mileage is not quite as good so in reality it somewhat evens out, if that. I like the idea of the fuel for environmental reseasons but it has ended up costing the rest of us a lot of money in our food bills because of the high corn prices and the products made with corn. Have you priced a cob of corn recently? One used to be able to get one for about 10 cents each, now I have seen them for 50 cents. The farm animals eat the corn as well making a big shortage.
"Why not go with a tried and true technology--HYBRID. But oh, they can't."
They are developing the hydrogen fuel cell right now with BMW and Chrysler. Both the Chevy Volt and BMW 7 series have a model being tested right now. According to recent reports Chevy will have the Volt on the market no later than 2012, maybe before. The hybrids on the market are not true hybrids because they still have a gas engine.
"No innovation or innovation that doesn't keep up with the competition, it just copies it."
What things have they been copying? GM is known as an innovator and has developed many things that others are now using such as: night vision, stability control, traction control,daytime running lights, remote starting, anti-lock brakes, radio control on the steering wheel, to name a few. They had air bags available in the early 1970's, but there was little interest so it was dropped. GM was also one of the first to offer satellite navigation, satelite radio, mp3 radio plug-ins, auto dimming rearview mirrors, side heated mirrors, tire air monitoring warning, child safety locks in the rear doors, inside child safety trunk releases, rust proofing from the factory on all models, among other offerings.
You are really pushing the bs today media. I knew of at least four people who had the ill fated gas engine turned diesel. They didn't sound anything close to a semi-tractor diesel. They were pretty much the same loudness as any other diesel based car at that time, and some actually lasted a real long time.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I fail to see how Hybrids aren't all that as you claim. Combined street/hwy driving is 55mph. Can you imagine what stellar mpg you'd get with all freeway driving??
I'm too lazy to find a source, but I think hybrids' hwy mileage is typically less than city since in city the gas engine has more opportunity to shut down, and you gain from regenerative braking.
I thought it's exactly because a car has a gas engine that it is a hybrid.
I see quite a few Caddy's of all years & models on the road. But then again, I may be noticing them more because I started looking at this thread...
I still don't see them as becoming standard of the world any time soon. I think their goal is to focus on the mid-luxury segment, not the high end. When they step up to the high end plate then MAYBE they can be cosnidered. But even then it'll take time because some of the others (Merc, Bimmer, Audi & Lexus) have a head start in that area.
I fail to see how Hybrids aren't all that as you claim. Combined street/hwy driving is 55mph. Can you imagine what stellar mpg you'd get with all freeway driving??
Not that I'm for E85, but I just want to note that hybrids aren't that much of a deal either, but people are still flocking to the Prius...
I did not write the above. wrong commenter. BUT Hybrids are a way of getting better efficiency out of an engine/vehicle. All motors are not 100% efficient and gas engines are very inefficient. Energy loss to heat, inefficient power/fuel usage, etc. Also energy is lost to to vehicle items like air drag, tire resistance, braking. All gas/battery hybrids do is capture some of that lost energy.
But this takes more stuff to get it. Batteries are heavy, take up space, etc. braing regen systems are costly and add weight. I have nothing against hybrids but make sure the cost benefit is really there. Now that there are rebates on the Prius and gas is over $3.50/gallon, whoops it is under $3.25 again, then it may be a cost effective way of saving money. It is also a way of reducing emmisions so we can take that into account.
Prius is the only hybrid that really sells in volume. Honda just cancelled their Accord hybrid(probably did not sell because it was on a V6 and those who care about their gas mileage enough to pay for it want a very high MPG vehicle and therfore a 4). A lot of Prius sales are to those who can afford to and want to appear green.
And actually hybrids do very little for highway, at least not the system Toyota uses. They are only useful where there is a lot of braking to charge the battery. If all highway not a lot of savings.
If you look at a vehicle like the Honda hythat is not totally compromised for fuel efficiency the delta is not that much. For $31,000 you get 28/35 which is an improvement over the 20/29 but from the publics viewpoint not worth buying.
My understanding from reading several other sources that true hybrids do not have gas engines. The more that I think about it I am not really sure what is a true hybrid.
But the combined 55 MPG rating is probably about 10 MPGs over what one should expect.