When i drive mine, i attrract femails-interesting, they will have little to do with me otherwise; by the way, what is the earliest sign of wheel bearing failure?
Scott -- I've always kept my tires inflated with at least 32 psi. I have 63K miles on my Forester and the bearings are fine. The nearby dealer actually recommends 38psi.
I am a man ( at least, the last time I looked) and I drive a Forester. I was going to buy a Legacy GT, but when the salesperson suggested I also drive the Forester, I was hooked. The handling was too much fun!
I too had a REAR wheel bearing failure. I keep my tires inflaced to 33 pounds all around. Why not? The owner's manual says to use 36 pounds with full load in the rear. It recommends 29 pounds in front regardless of load. So, if higher inflation was the cause of the wheel bearing failure, the FRONT bearing should have failed.
Blaming the customer is an art form that is practiced by many dealers. "You must not know how to drive a stick, that's why the clutch failed." Believe that and you are out $750. If they can make the customer feel gulity, she or he may just go away and not stick the dealership with the less profitable business of warranty repair where the manufacturer sets rates well below what they can charge the customer for other work.
I didn't experience that ploy, but I have had my share of "sunshine treatments" and stalls:
"Well, leave it for the day and we'll see what we can do." LATER: "Sorry, we can't duplicate the problem [of course, we didn't even start the engine since you left it]."
"It's really not much of a problem, but if it still does it in a month, bring it back and we'll see what we can do [which is tell you that you still have 12,000 miles under the warranty, so don't worry -- we don't since we think you will forget about it and then you will have to pay]."
"They ALL have it." [It's a design problem and you were so stupid, you didn't notice it during your ten minute test drive -- of course, our engineers didn't notice it in hundreds of hours of pre-production testing.]"
FYI - If your dealer states they cannot duplicate a problem, do not just walk away from the situation. Make sure you test drive with the technician so they know exactly what you are talking about. All dealers should do this prior to giving a "no problem found" diagnosis. It's your right to ask to ride with them.
If you are dealing with an intermitant problem, make note of how/when it happens - cold vs. warm, hills, etc. Then, advise the dealership of your findings and ask them to arrange a test drive during those circumstances.
Always call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 if you are unhappy with the results. We can at least keep track of the complaint and look for trends.
And - - -if you are told "they all do that", ask for a ride in a comparable vehicle to feel more assured about that response.
Considering stone protection for the new Forester, has anyone had experiences with either the plastic hood deflector as opposed to the vinyl full front end cover? Is one better for windshield protection? Any problems with paint rubbing off with the "bra"?
I agree that the customer should be persistent. I should have made clear that the ploys I was describing were NOT a complaint about my Subaru dealership that generally has treated me quite well, but experiences that I have had in the past.
My Forester came with the plastic hood deflector. I have not had any stone chips on the hood or windshield, but there are a few on the side of the fenders where there is no protection, so I guess it does work. My mileage has been OK, so I don't think there is much of a penalty.
As others have reported, the glass on Subarus seems to be quite soft. My windshield has a sandblasted appearance at 55,000 miles, not unlike that of my son's car's at 150,000. I don't drive off-road, and rarely on dirt roads. Also, an ice scraper that I used on 2 other vehicles without problem, scratched several of the windows on the Forester. So, protection seems like a good idea.
I have never used a hood bra, but I hear that if you have one, you MUST remove it periodically and thoroughly clean underneath. Otherwise mildew may form and cause problems. The only negative of the plastic deflector has been a little extra effort cleaning the front of the hood.
I'd say neither is very good for windshield protection. The Forester's windshield is very upright so any stones that are big enough to cause damage end up hitting it anyway. I had a front hood deflector and noticed that all it did was send stones on a higher trajectory than without it.
The great visibility is a trade off for more windshield chips.
Appreciate the comments on the plastic hood deflector regarding stones. How about airborne projectiles of a squishier variety?
I've noticed that the Forester's nice upright windshield is a bug magnet! When I drove to South Dakota last May, I had to make extra stops about once an hour to scrape off the casualties.
So, for those who've tried the plastic hood deflector - do you find that it reduces insect impacts?
Yes, the hood deflector does reduce the number of insect impacts. The impacts that do occur seem to happen higher up on the windshield.
I don't know if Subaru has redesigned the hood deflector, but the one I bought for my 98 Forester caused the side mirrors to vibrate when I hit speeds of 80mph.
That, combined with the need to remove it whenever I detailed my vehicle led me to just take it off permanently.
I own sweveral mercedes and belong to the mercedes club-no factory types will participate on our technical descussion fourm so we can only help one another solve odd problems. So good to have that faqctory support-cannot wait to buy another forester for my sweetheart so she can be safe this winter.
If i use synthetic oil-ie mobile 1 in my forester, can i safely extend severe service drail interval to 7500 miles?? also can i use ordinary antifreeze ie prestone or equivilent in cooling system or do i need subaru collant? The Mercedes antifreeze is different from us antifreeze in ph and other parameters so i am asking this question for subarues. I adore my forrester and want only the best for it.
Thanks to all who responded to my questions on men in Foresters. Your help was most appreciated and he says this is no longer an issue for him. Now he wonders if it's a good idea to get the 2002 or wait for the redesign in the 2003's (due out around February, according to our dealer.) He thought you all might have some good equally good advice. --Susan
If you have the option, you might want to wait to take a look at the '03 Forester. Personally, I never buy a model at the end of its product cycle because it drives me crazy to make payments on an "outdated" model. That said, the current Forester has been around for a few years and has most of the bugs worked out of it. It's a seasoned veteran and very popular with owners.
I'm going to be buying a new car next year and the Forester is on my short list. I'm curious to see what improvements will be made in the redesign. I would wait so you know your options.
I'd definitely wait, unless of course your hubby is perfectly happy with the current model. My sense is that there will be some very worthwhile upgrades, and if you buy now, may regret it later when the new model debuts.
As to what's going to be new? Not sure yet; my assumption is that it will be a tad larger, with increased rear passenger room. You can also count on a host of new upgrades and detail improvements.
I'd certainly wait. If, once you see the new vehicle, and you don't like the changes, I'm sure there will be some '01 leftovers that can be had at an excellent price.
Patti, our Edmunds/SOA rep, has indicated some info on the new Forester will be coming shortly. So I'd stay turned...
Oil change intervals should not be determined by their type, but by the contamination level of the oil. While it's true that synthetics can go longer before breaking down, 7500 miles is just a general rule of thumb. Driving conditions and oil properties are what determine when you should change the oil.
Ideally, you would check your oil periodically by having an oil analysis done but for most people that's overkill. One quick way to determine if it's time to change oil is to look at the color of the oil on the dipstick. When the oil begins to loose it's translucent apperance, it's probably time to change.
I tend to agree with the majority opinion. Unless there is a compelling reason, I would suggest waiting for the '03 Forester. I really like my '01, but I think the new model will have some significant improvements without being too much larger. I doubt that the new one will be very buggy as it will probably be evolutionary based upon the much stronger new Impreza - even safer and a bit roomier. $0.02Cn
Look at the changes that occured during the model changeovers for the 1999-2000 Legacy and the 2001-2002 Impreza, and I think you'll want to wait. The new cars are much stiffer and more refined. They added content and made them safer and bigger.
The only catch is weight, which they've been gaining. That's about it, so I'd wait and then choose from a 2003 or a left over 2002.
I'm male and love my Forester. If it attracts attention from females rather than males, better still!
Mike: I would change the differential oil to check it. It takes a 1/2" drive and lots of torque, but get it loose and drain the oil. The drain plug is magnetic, so look for metal shavings on it. If so, your LSD is probably toast, so get it fixed under warranty. If not, it was not the differential.
I had posted several weeks ago about the annoying brake squeel and growling sounds our 99 Forester makes and questioned if the help to Legacy owners of adding a brake shim would be extened to Forester owners as well. You had mention that you would get back on the following Monday but that was several weeks ago. Any answer would be appreciated.
If you're gonna wait, be prepared to wait some more! Subarus tend to have quite a price curve on new models. Maybe your dealer is willing to offer X-dollars over invoice on the new Forester so you can preorder, but if he wants sticker, hold off for a few months until the sizzle cools.
To be the first on the block with a new car is often the expensive route... Dealers bank on pent up demand—hence ADMs. I've already seen it with the new '02 Honda CRV.
I think I heard somewhere, I think here, that the AWD differ between Auto vs Manual. Think that in auto the AWD is split 90/10 while the manual is 50/50. Is this true? If so, how is the clutch on the Subarus? Heard they take some time to get use to. I currently drive a Toyota with manual.
The manual trans has a 50/50 split and employs a viscous coupling. When either axle slips, the fluid in the VC heats up and thickens, locking the two axles together temporarily, and sending power to the axle with grip. It's purely mechanical and very robust, plus it's sealed and maintenance-free.
The auto is different. It starts with most power being sent to the front axle, 90/10 or 80/20 depending on who you ask. Any how, it has sensors in the pedals and g-force sensors to predict when slip will occur, and can proactively adjust that split. So when you hit the gas, it'll send more power to the rear, to prevent wheel spin. It's really only 90/10 when you are cruising.
S models and above add a limited slip rear differential, which acts in the same way the VC does, but from side to side on the rear axle.
In practice, both are very effective in the snow and in light off road situations. The rear LSD is even better, but my 5 speed Forester L is great even without it. The manual tranny, IMO, feels more neutral, while my dad's automatic feels a little more like a FWD car does.
The major controls are relatively light, including the clutch. It's very easy to drive; I actually have to adjust my habits when I drive my wife's 626, which has a stiffer clutch pedal. My Miata is closer to the Forester than it is to the 626.
IMHO the 4EAT is a better system because it not only takes into account the slippage, but also is more pro-active because it uses weight sensors to move the torque around as well. For instance on a hard launch it will transfer more power to the rear due to the weight being shifted to the back, and the reverse on stops. It's just a more advanced system. For performance on dry, I'd go with the MT due to the better acceleration of MTs and the more RWD feel. For average person and snow driving I'd go with the AT AWD system.
I prefer the manual because of the "feel". I prefer RWD vs. FWD.
But you could argue that the auto system is more sophisticated, and I'd agree.
I'd say pick the tranny depending upon which transmission style better suits your needs, not based on the type of AWD system, since both are effective.
Well, if you have a bum knee and commute bumper-to-bumper every day for an hour, your needs would be better served by an automatic. If you tow and off road, an auto has advantages, too.
OTOH, if gas mileage is a high priority, as is purchase price, and you like the control manual gear selection gives you, plus the sporty feel, then get a 5 speed all the way.
Our 02 Forrester S now has 4500 miles with no problems.My wife commutes 55 miles daily in the wet state of Washington and loves the car. We are going to the mountains in several weeks and it may be snowing.What is the correct procedure regarding tire chains? Front,rear all four? My other question is, can the moonroof be partially open in the rain (we are smokers)? Great site,great car. Steve/Gini
I beleive the auto tranny at start off is set for a 50/50 power split and after reaching the required speed or when the auto goes into 3rd it releases into a 90/10 front/rear ratio. This is whats in my 99 L manual. This release is the clacking sound that many auto tranny owners question and think something is amiss with the tranny but its just the clutch pack releasing itself.
Patti posted a while back that the AT never locks in at 50/50 but it does make some sense. My XT6 chirps the front wheels on startoff, but my dad's legacy L never does, similar power, my dad has smaller tires so he should be able to chirp em before the XT6 does.
Thanks, Hugo. I'd heard about that 50/50 split in 1-2-R but didn't realize it was documented in the owner's manual.
Steve/Gini: use cable chains instead of the thick chains. Clearance is limited to the strut towers. I would use them on all four, and only when there is snow on the ground.
I'm not sure if there are rain gutters in the moonroof, but probably.
The owner's manual for the 01 Forester very definitely says "put the the chains on the front wheels only". Section 8-14 if you want to reference the specific part of the manual.
I know. The rear strut tower does have very limited clearance, about 1/2" or so, but cable chains ought to fit. I think this is why they say front only.
But if you're going down a steep hill and only have traction on the front tires, you'll spin out quicker than you can say "oops!"
do any tire manufacturers make good snow tires for L and S model Foresters? that could remedy and possible problems or damage that chains might do. the only drawback is that it could get expensive since you would need to get four snow tires. just a thought.
Yes there are a number of good snow tires available for the Forester, and yes you do need 4 of them, but you should always use 4 on any car! Remember, in the snow it is at least as important to be able to steer and stop as is is to be able to go. In many jurisdictions it is illegal to have snow tires on one axle only and I believe most manufacturers recommend against it.
I live in the mountains and have been considering a Forester. I would like to get an auto tranny but am concerned about going through them too fast (went through two in one year in an old Nissan pickup, then switched to manuals). Do any of you have one that you drive up steep grades at freeway speeds on a regular basis? My commute takes me from 6,000 feet to sea level and back every day on interstates as well as mountain roads.
Thanks for the info. Also for the info on chains - they (or true snow tires) are required at times where I live.
I haven't heard of any problems with them. We've got two Subies ('01 Forester/18K and '96 Impreza Outback/85K) with automatics, and have had absolutely no problems.
Comments
Ken
I too had a REAR wheel bearing failure. I keep my tires inflaced to 33 pounds all around. Why not? The owner's manual says to use 36 pounds with full load in the rear. It recommends 29 pounds in front regardless of load. So, if higher inflation was the cause of the wheel bearing failure, the FRONT bearing should have failed.
Blaming the customer is an art form that is practiced by many dealers. "You must not know how to drive a stick, that's why the clutch failed." Believe that and you are out $750. If they can make the customer feel gulity, she or he may just go away and not stick the dealership with the less profitable business of warranty repair where the manufacturer sets rates well below what they can charge the customer for other work.
I didn't experience that ploy, but I have had my share of "sunshine treatments" and stalls:
"Well, leave it for the day and we'll see what we can do." LATER: "Sorry, we can't duplicate the problem [of course, we didn't even start the engine since you left it]."
"It's really not much of a problem, but if it still does it in a month, bring it back and we'll see what we can do [which is tell you that you still have 12,000 miles under the warranty, so don't worry -- we don't since we think you will forget about it and then you will have to pay]."
"They ALL have it." [It's a design problem and you were so stupid, you didn't notice it during your ten minute test drive -- of course, our engineers didn't notice it in hundreds of hours of pre-production testing.]"
If you are dealing with an intermitant problem, make note of how/when it happens - cold vs. warm, hills, etc. Then, advise the dealership of your findings and ask them to arrange a test drive during those circumstances.
Always call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 if you are unhappy with the results. We can at least keep track of the complaint and look for trends.
And - - -if you are told "they all do that", ask for a ride in a comparable vehicle to feel more assured about that response.
Have a great Sunday!
Patti
My wife is a gravel truck groupie!
Thanks,
Alan G.
Fact is that the Forester is the only Subaru I could own because I need the headroom... and I don't have a bouffant hairdo.
Regards,
Frank, a Massachusetts MAN
As others have reported, the glass on Subarus seems to be quite soft. My windshield has a sandblasted appearance at 55,000 miles, not unlike that of my son's car's at 150,000. I don't drive off-road, and rarely on dirt roads. Also, an ice scraper that I used on 2 other vehicles without problem, scratched several of the windows on the Forester. So, protection seems like a good idea.
I have never used a hood bra, but I hear that if you have one, you MUST remove it periodically and thoroughly clean underneath. Otherwise mildew may form and cause problems. The only negative of the plastic deflector has been a little extra effort cleaning the front of the hood.
I'd say neither is very good for windshield protection. The Forester's windshield is very upright so any stones that are big enough to cause damage end up hitting it anyway. I had a front hood deflector and noticed that all it did was send stones on a higher trajectory than without it.
The great visibility is a trade off for more windshield chips.
Ken
I've noticed that the Forester's nice upright windshield is a bug magnet! When I drove to South Dakota last May, I had to make extra stops about once an hour to scrape off the casualties.
So, for those who've tried the plastic hood deflector - do you find that it reduces insect impacts?
Cheers,
Scott
Yes, the hood deflector does reduce the number of insect impacts. The impacts that do occur seem to happen higher up on the windshield.
I don't know if Subaru has redesigned the hood deflector, but the one I bought for my 98 Forester caused the side mirrors to vibrate when I hit speeds of 80mph.
That, combined with the need to remove it whenever I detailed my vehicle led me to just take it off permanently.
Ken
--Susan
If you have the option, you might want to wait to take a look at the '03 Forester. Personally, I never buy a model at the end of its product cycle because it drives me crazy to make payments on an "outdated" model. That said, the current Forester has been around for a few years and has most of the bugs worked out of it. It's a seasoned veteran and very popular with owners.
I'm going to be buying a new car next year and the Forester is on my short list. I'm curious to see what improvements will be made in the redesign. I would wait so you know your options.
As to what's going to be new? Not sure yet; my assumption is that it will be a tad larger, with increased rear passenger room. You can also count on a host of new upgrades and detail improvements.
I'd certainly wait. If, once you see the new vehicle, and you don't like the changes, I'm sure there will be some '01 leftovers that can be had at an excellent price.
Patti, our Edmunds/SOA rep, has indicated some info on the new Forester will be coming shortly. So I'd stay turned...
Bob
Greg
BTW - notice I said "most".
Ideally, you would check your oil periodically by having an oil analysis done but for most people that's overkill. One quick way to determine if it's time to change oil is to look at the color of the oil on the dipstick. When the oil begins to loose it's translucent apperance, it's probably time to change.
Ken
Ross
The only catch is weight, which they've been gaining. That's about it, so I'd wait and then choose from a 2003 or a left over 2002.
I'm male and love my Forester. If it attracts attention from females rather than males, better still!
Mike: I would change the differential oil to check it. It takes a 1/2" drive and lots of torque, but get it loose and drain the oil. The drain plug is magnetic, so look for metal shavings on it. If so, your LSD is probably toast, so get it fixed under warranty. If not, it was not the differential.
-juice
Leo
Ross
Thanks for the reply. I can't find the tire size for the Forester. Do you know what the tire size the L and S models? Thanks.
Leo
I agree - get all four aligned. Subies are tricky to get right even when you do all four.
-juice
Bob
-juice
Leo
-mike
The auto is different. It starts with most power being sent to the front axle, 90/10 or 80/20 depending on who you ask. Any how, it has sensors in the pedals and g-force sensors to predict when slip will occur, and can proactively adjust that split. So when you hit the gas, it'll send more power to the rear, to prevent wheel spin. It's really only 90/10 when you are cruising.
S models and above add a limited slip rear differential, which acts in the same way the VC does, but from side to side on the rear axle.
In practice, both are very effective in the snow and in light off road situations. The rear LSD is even better, but my 5 speed Forester L is great even without it. The manual tranny, IMO, feels more neutral, while my dad's automatic feels a little more like a FWD car does.
The major controls are relatively light, including the clutch. It's very easy to drive; I actually have to adjust my habits when I drive my wife's 626, which has a stiffer clutch pedal. My Miata is closer to the Forester than it is to the 626.
-juice
Leo
-mike
I prefer the manual because of the "feel". I prefer RWD vs. FWD.
But you could argue that the auto system is more sophisticated, and I'd agree.
I'd say pick the tranny depending upon which transmission style better suits your needs, not based on the type of AWD system, since both are effective.
-juice
Leo
OTOH, if gas mileage is a high priority, as is purchase price, and you like the control manual gear selection gives you, plus the sporty feel, then get a 5 speed all the way.
-juice
BTW, I seen mentioned here about Foresters having trouble with their rear wheel bearings? What signs would that give you if you're having a problem?
Leo
-juice
We are going to the mountains in several weeks and it may be snowing.What is the correct procedure regarding tire chains? Front,rear all four?
My other question is, can the moonroof be partially open in the rain (we are smokers)?
Great site,great car.
Steve/Gini
Bob
Patti posted a while back that the AT never locks in at 50/50 but it does make some sense. My XT6 chirps the front wheels on startoff, but my dad's legacy L never does, similar power, my dad has smaller tires so he should be able to chirp em before the XT6 does.
-mike
Steve/Gini: use cable chains instead of the thick chains. Clearance is limited to the strut towers. I would use them on all four, and only when there is snow on the ground.
I'm not sure if there are rain gutters in the moonroof, but probably.
-juice
But if you're going down a steep hill and only have traction on the front tires, you'll spin out quicker than you can say "oops!"
-juice
Leo
Ross
Thanks for the info. Also for the info on chains - they (or true snow tires) are required at times where I live.
Bob