I went out yesterday and test drove a VW Jetta Wagon (automatic, 4 cylinder) and really liked it. It reminded me of my old '92 BMW 325. Also drove a Mazda P5 and the ride seemed kinda bouncy. Anyway, I think I'll just go with the Forester again since it served me well before and it really suits my lifestyle better-- I need the AWD, cargo space, and towing capacity. I really loved my old car-- even slept in it once when I was it was raining on a camping trip. Not too bad. I'm disappointed with the gas mileage only because I think they could do better. I was getting around 25mpg on the highway, and that is good, but I drive a lot and I really wanted something that has *excellent* gas mileage. The VW's aren't much better, but the Toyota Matrix looks like it will have good mileage. Oh, well. I'm just a penny pincher/conservation freak.
Oh- and in terms of the airbag I want the side airbags that are in the seat, not necessarily the head curtain airbags.
In response to the questions about the accident: What was the major cause of your injuries? -Mostly just the high impact of the wreck due to high speeds. I am guessing my husband's injuries were from the seat belt, but it could have also been the center console. It was amazing- her car stopped where she hit us (in the median), but the energy and impact pushed us all the way from the left lane to the median between the freeway and the feeder, which is on a hill.
Did part of the passenger compartment give way? -(Just from what I remember waking up inside the car....I haven't been back to visit it)The plastic on the inside of the driver door was splintered and shattered, and I had lots of cuts from that. The driver side front tire was pushed in so far that my legs were trapped between it and the center console. There was a hole in the floor there. I think my foot was broken under the accelerator. The windshield shattered and both of our seats broke. My husband's seat was actually reclining at an angle, plus mine had angled in a little. I had a gash in the back of my head, I don't know what from-- the headrest? They had to get both of us out of the passenger door b/c the driver door was trashed. I wonder if side airbags would have kept my pelvis from being broken. I have no idea how my sacrum was shattered- again, I think it was just the high impact.
What happened to the girl and her vehicle? -Her wrist was broken. She got up and walked out of her car right away, somewhat shaken. I think her car is totaled also.
Eventually I will get a post mortem photo of the car and post the URL here, but it will be a while. Thanks for the comforting words.
Well, I am a long time Subaru owner, so is my mom, and so is my brother. Now I am thinking of jumping ship. Why? Subaru only makes AWD vehicles, with all unecessary comforts as standard, pushing the price up. What I REALLY want is a front wheel drive Forester (or station wagon but like the higher Forester), with no air conditioning and electric nothing, and guess what else? Vinyl seats because cloth seats absorb barn smells (we are dairy farmers) and suck up the mess the kids make. I loved my Chaser that I could switch to AWD when needed (which was really seldom even up here in Canada), plus it had no air conditioning and manual windows, etc. Both my mother and my brother agree that the new Subarus may not be for me any longer. Is there no way to get front wheel drive only or the AWD on/off that I had with my Chaser? What about the new wagons? Can they really not be ordered the way I want?
Susannah, I put 60,000 on my '98 Forester L 5 speed before trade in last summer. Got about 21 city and 27 hwy most of the time. To get side airbags you will need to go with the S+ which being heavier than a '98 I would expect ot get even somewhat lower gas mileage. My present car is a 2002 WRX wagon 5 speed which has the side airbags. Its only downside (price is actually lower than a S+ Forester) is 20/27 mileage on premium. (I actually do get the EPA estimate numbers on it fortunately)
Jeff--If you have read this far into this post I will tell you that the back seat in the Forester is not too good for adults but believe it or not, the back seat in my WRX (or any new Impreza wagon) has been more comfortable for the adult passengers who have ridden back there. As to the way the car handles, my '98 L had the narrower taller tires that your S won't have. It can out handle any "sport ute" out there. The S should be better. The L is not a high performance sports car but the way you could corner with it was surprizing.
Ed-- *shakes head* ...I know, I know. I've had this feeling and expressed it before but I know you're right. I just have to remember not to step on any feet here ...the established crew members understandably resent someone like me coming in and giving advice and expressing opinions as if an expert. I'll just work on developing a thicker skin and tiptoeing softly around the regulars. Thanx again, Ed.
Monica-- Wow! That's going to be difficult ...a/c and power windows seem to be becoming more and more common as standard equipment on most vehicles nowadays. And I'll have to defer to the crew members on the subject of fwd Subarus ...I'm under the impression that all Subarus sold in NA are now awd and I have no idea about what's available in the JDM ...are they (fwd) still available there?
Susannah-- I found another mistake in my post over on the "other" board so I'll delete my post over there and re-post it here and point out the error. I did find that the preliminary MPG on the Matrix to be 27/32 MPG on the standard engine with fwd but I'm sure it will be much less on the awd model, especially with the optional 180 hp engine. But since you did express your decision of going with another Forester again, all this is just extraneous garble anyway. *lol*:
Hi Susannah!~ I remember reading the details of your accident on the Forester board after you originally posted it and I'm glad you and your hubby have recovered! ...man, it made me cringe when you posted it again.
But can you define "excellent" in definitive terms? Were you not getting the gas mileage you expected in your old Forester? Yes, I agree that the gas mileage in the Subarus might not be as good as the cars you mentioned in your list but I don't think it would be that far off. Foresters (or Legacy/Outback using the H4 engine) are going to average above 20 MPG using regualar unleaded. The Passat and the Volvo might get marginally better mileage but they recommend premium unleaded to accomplish it. IMHO if I were in your shoes, since the Forester got you out of that accident alive, then I'd personally feel that I'd want to stay with the vehicle that "saved my life" ...it has excellent crash test ratings as portrayed in their recent TV commercial that compares it with the horrible ratings of the Ford Escape.
Of your listed vehicles, I'd personally think that the Passat would come closest to combining safety with realatively good gas mileage. The Passat also has excellent crash rating data and in addition has head curtain side impact protection. Head curtains are now quite common in the European imports. Although some Japanese and domestic cars now have side impact bags, they lack head curtains ...so head curtains are a definite plus in the safety category. The Passat 1.8T will give you "good" gas mileage but not what I would necessarily condider "excellent." I own a Forester and an Audi A4 1.8T (same engine as in the Passat) which are both less than a year old --they both get about the same gas mileage (21-24 MPG on average, combined city/hwy) but, again, the 1.8T requires premium to get that mileage.
The Toyota Matrix sounds interesting. You're right ...saftey data probably won't be out until after introduction. IMO, I believe that the "first-year-glitches" won't be concern with this vehicle because it is using drivetrains/engines which are currently in use by Toyota in the Corolla and Celica and have proven reliability. I also believe it will be produced at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA along with the Pontiac Vibe ...if so, that plant has an excellent reputation of quality control. Personally, *now hold on to your hat* I actually like the styling of Pontiac's version more than I do the Matrix (they are "twinned" vehicles, of course). The Vibe is what the Aztek should have been! ...a quote I heard somewhere. Here are the Vibe's specs (but should be similar to the Matrix's): http://www.pontiac.com/vibe/vibe_specs_popup.html Both are scheduled for introduction in February, I think.
Sounds like you have your heart set on the Matrix but if you can't wait, the Forester, Outback and Passat are the choices I'd consider from your list, if I was in your situation.
Just my $.02, Susannah ...and that's all it's worth. *lol* Good luck and let us know how things progress!
--'rocco
I've did read later that the Matrix/Vibe will be produced at Toyota's Cambridge, Ontario plant and evidently not at the NUMMI plant in California.
hmmmm, is that bigger or smaller than my lawn mower engine?? *sticks tongue in cheek* ...it must get excellent gas mileage, however. Although I have some Japanese heritage, I can't read Japanese nor can I make heads or tails of that web site
If I downloaded the Windows Japanese language support software, would I have better luck?
Some of it is in english. On that gray bar with japanese letters that runs across the top, click about an inch in from the right.
The picture of the I's indicates both FWD and AWD, and yes it is 1.5L. Which is strange, because the entry-level Impreza WRX sedan (all Impreza sedans are called WRX in Japan) is 2.0L.
The problem viewing the SOJ site is that you get all excited with all the neat stuff they get, then reality sets in—this is the USA, and we don't get any (or very little) of it.
Bob-- twin turbos??? ...now this is where I wish I could read Japanese. I went to the B4 page and the entire thing is in Japanese. --the pictures look nice, though. How many HP? Sort of like a Japanese S4?
A Japanese S-4. I think the horsepower is around 280, but I'm not sure. In any case, it's pretty powerful. That engine is also available in the Legacy Touring Wagon GT-B E-tune II too.
Correction: After reading some more, evidently, the Matrix will be built in Canada and the Vibe at NUMMI. Juice can elaborate when he gets back for I see he's been participating on the Matrix board.
Haven't visited this forum since I bought my Forester 3 years ago - I've been too busy enjoying my car! - but it was very helpful then, so I thought I'd try again. Just brought it in for its 26,500 mi oil change and the service manager told me that the front brakes were about 30% worn and that I would need new brakes at the 30K service. My car has been pretty lightly driven - it lives on the street in the city (Boston) and probably 95% of its miles have been highway, heading up to ski - so it seems kind of early for new brakes. Plus at $440 for the 30K service plus $250 for the brakes I have to start saving now! Any thoughts?
P.S. - The only "brake related" problem I have noticed is an occasional pull to the left when I'm slowing down very gradually to a stop - but I have had that problem from the beginning and the dealer has checked it out. Other than that the brakes seem fine to me. But obviously I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Um for about $32+tax + about 2hrs of time you can change em yourself. Also 30% worn seems a bit early to change em out. Although 30K miles is about right for brakes IMHO. My dad's '97 legacy goes through them every 15K or so. Sounds like a snow job from the dealer if you ask me.
Just wanted to thank you all for your input - there's no substitute for experience... and I appreciate you sharing yours.
None of you opined about the appearance of the spoiler? Care to assuage or justify this tinge of buyer's remorse we're feeling? Does it help keep the rear window clean at all?
Actually I did comment on the spoiler - negatively unfortunately. I don't like the looks and I've heard that it doesn't do much for rear clarity, unlike the deflector which works wonderfully IMHO. Sorry.
I thought you were referring to the looks of the dust deflector in your original response - but I certainly appreciate your honesty. We have grappled with this for a week now - whether or not to try and cancel the option - but it may be too late. I really wish I could find one on a white Forester in person... Hopefully it won't look 'tacky' - as I said, we thought it looked sharp on the lot on the black and silver. Pretty bummed that it is totally useless as well; I should have done my homework better. Oh well - I'm sure we'll learn to love the Forester any way! Thanks again!
I have a 98 Forester with 105,000 miles (mostly highway and light off roading). I just had the car in for preventative maint. this week, and the dealer claimed I still have enough pad left to last another 10K-20K miles. It seems really suspicious that they would want to replace a part with 70% of it's life left...
Run that one again..sounds like they are telling you that there is some usful life in the pads albeit small. If you think 10-20 K is not enough..put on new pads. Brakes are your life..
I don't like the looks of the deflector either. ;~) The deflector is super-utilitarian however. I have no personal experience with the spoiler, just passing on 2nd hand info. Hopefully the report was based upon overly high expectations. Anyway, it is such a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things. You certainly shouldn't worry about MY tastes in automotive looks, I've had some very odd looking cars in my day. The only thing that matters is how you feel. I'm certain that you will love your Forester (I offer a free naming service) and you'll decide that the spoiler finishes off the look you were after. Enjoy!!!
Just got a '02 S and delighted, so far (<200 miles - already!). purposely did not order any options other than rear deflector (from other vehicles, agree that they are very effective) as it's installation seemed scary - drilling holes in the body is too intimidating.
I will look at ordering some others like arm rest but am curious what experience anyone's had with the dog guard - is it a permanent install or can it be moved forward if seats are folded? anyone have any good experiences with other products - if so, which & where'd you get them? thnx!
Ask a trusted, handy friend to check out the front brakes (you can e-mail me if you are in the DC area). It takes one minute and you can probably tell without even taking the wheels off how much pad you have left. At 42k miles mine still look new.
Someone asked, so here are my oil change photos and tips and here is my fender flare install. I needed the latter because my wheels have a different offset than stock, it was like a sand blaster on the beach. They look cool, too, to my eyes.
Incentives? Don't hold your breath for rebates, but special financing is available.
Susannah: glad you survived to tell the story. Sounds like an awful collision with very high forces involved. IMO the bigger and heavier Forester would hold up better than a Vibe/Matrix. The S Premium has the side air bags you desire.
Just to prove a point, I rode in Bob's Forester all the way to Philly, in the back seat (just under 2 hours). The person in front of me was short so he was able to move the front seat forward a couple of notches, but I was comfortable. Plenty of foot room under the seats, softer fabric than my 98 L model, and nice big windows and moonroof for a great view.
Just don't put a basketball player behind another basketball player. I'm close to 6", 220 lbs.
If you want a stripped vehicle, see your Toyota dealer. Nothing is standard, they win easily here. The RAV4 doesn't even come with a real rear bumper. It's only FWD, has no floor mats, no A/C, no ABS, no power windows, no power locks, no cargo cover, no mud guards, no fog lights, and I'm sure lots of other things I've left out (or they did, actually).
It's funny because that's usually a negative point! LOL
If you like the Jetta wagon, and want better gas mileage than the Forester, did you look at the VW Jetta wagon with the TDI engine? Gets incredible fuel (diesel) mileage (like 40 to 50 mpg.) Comes with side air bags standard, but no AWD in this country yet. You may have to wait for one since I think they just started coming over with TDI in the wagon. Drive one, you may like it. Good luck.
Good luck finding a stripped-down RAV; I've yet to see a RAV that did not have at least the QO (Quick Order) package (a/c, pw/pl/pm, am/fm/cd/cassette, floor mats). A stripper would likely have to be special-ordered, as it's a low demand, low profit vehicle.
I agree - ignore the Toyota base price in the real world.
Still, you can get a lot, including QO package, AWD and auto trans (if that's your choice), for around $22k sticker, $21k purchase. Not bad at all.
Diesel can be risky, though. It's cheaper in some places, but costs more in others (like near me). It's also harder to find, though at least the extra range helps there, just don't drive around on empty all the time.
In terms of performance, torque is good off the line but they run out of steam sooner than most gas engines would.
30K seems early for brakes, unless perhaps you do a lot of stop and go driving. I'd get a second opinion from a trusted independent mechanic. My dealer talked me into brakes at 65K (including turning the rotors) because the brakes were a little noisy. The old pads came off about 60% worn. The newly turned rotors then warped. I was back for pads and rotors all around 15K later - at the independent shop where I now get all my servicing done. From now on, I'll live with a little noise if the pads and rotors are in good shape. My '99 has 85,000 miles and is going strong.
maggie-- I agree with all thats been said so far about your brakes. 30% worn = 70% remaining ...and they want to sell you a brake job in 3,500 miles?? It sounds to me like if you have 30% left @ 26,500 miles then you should be able to go at least that many more miles until you need to consider new brakes. Yes, IMO, don't let them do it if you even choose to take it back to that dealer for your 30K service.
juice-- But can you even find a RAV4 strippped like that? A co-worker tried to have a dealer locate a relatively stripped RAV4 and they told him that none are coming in with as few options that he wanted. They wouldn't even let him factory order one. They told him: "Toyotas can't be factory ordered ...you've got to choose from what's available in the region." Now, I don't know if what they were telling him was the truth or just b.s. but I've heard that from other Toyota shoppers ...but maybe (again), it's just a "west coast thing." So he went to the Subaru store and factory ordered an Outback Limited with the exact options he wanted ...*lol*, Toyota loses a customer to Subaru! --way-to-go, SoA!
We have been pleased with our 98 forester S 5 speed but it has had a few replacements. This was actually one of the very first Foresters produced (we bought July 5 or so 1997 in Canada). So far we have had new alloy wheels(first set were getting white tracks all over them early on...we now have separate Forester L wheels for winter tires); a rear wheel bearing; new battery; new rear pads at 50,000Km's (stuck slider). Now at 82,000 Km's we have just replaced the front rotors and pads and since the brakes still pulsed discovered I need to replace the rear rotors (big chunks out of them). Since the rear pads were showing increased (and uneven) wear, I decided to replace the pads as well.
While replacing the spark plugs (not exactly easy to reach!), I noticed that there is some oil seepage around the head gasket. It doesn't appear significant...really just a little area where you can see some dirt buildup sticking to the oil film there(can be seen on each side). I use a semi-synthetic oil. I know that boxer engines are more prone to oil leaks here due to the way the oil sits on the gaskets. I also know that synthetic oils penetrate seals easier. Should I be pushing the dealer for a head gasket job (still 18,000KM;s on the powertrain warranty) or is this par for the course with boxers? I would hate to have the dealer do an inferior job and then have problems after warranty.
Hi again, Jeff-- ya know, I too wondered initially whether "something" would be needed to keep debris off the rear window because in my old 4Runner, I had a terrible time with the rear window mucking up in the rain. Even though the 4Runner had a rear wiper, it wasn't really effective ...just seemed to smear the mud around as it was top-mounted. In the Forester, I am really happy with the way the rear window wiper is working. The intermittent mode seems to keep the window clear enough for my purposes ...plus, it is bottom-mounted for much more effective cleaning. Plus, you can always put it on the continuous-swipe mode to keep the glass clear when it really gets bad. So, IMO, I think you made the right decision in opting out of the spoiler. I didn't want to say anything before, but personally, I really don't like the "tacked-on" look of that spoiler. As far as dust goes, when the weather was better, I really didn't notice any more dust accumulating on the rear of the vehicle than on any other van or suv even when navigating down a dirt road ...actually to my surprise; but maybe I'm not as particular as some. My suggestion would be to see how it goes for awhile without the deflector and if you aren't satisfied, then you can always add it on later.
power windows, especially on drivers door on my 2001 forester are noisy-is this normal; they work fine. accelerator pedal felt ratitchety and notchy after abour 5000 miles, i cured this by rerouting the acceleratorcable off the factory positioners and u p higher. like silk now. last thing-is synthetic oil ok; i changed oil at 9000 miles to mobile -1 so i could extend drain intervakls to 6000 miles without guilt. II just LOVE driving it in the rain-wait till it snows. Such confidence=my mercedes is scary in wet weather by contrast although the diesel engine makes a wonderful noise.
mike-- Can you describe exactly what you did to reposition the accelerator cable? My accelerator pedal just seems to sensitive thus accentuating the "drivetrain lash" that I'm continually complaining about. TIA
I had been planning on getting the new CR-V. Test drove an automatic a few weeks ago and liked it (except for a few things that bugged me but I thought I could live with). I've been waiting since then for a 5-speed to appear so I could test drive that. This past weekend, I test drove a Forester "just to see." Well, I loved it and now plan on getting a Forester.
I like what the Premium level offers (side air bags) but not crazy about the colors so I'm going for the S level.
Questions: Anyone here from Massachusetts and can recommend a dealer? What should I expect for prices?
I originally passed on getting a Subaru because I know of several people who have 5-speeds that have had problems with the clutch (a 99 Impreza with the clutch dying at 60,000 doesn't make me feel that good). Do you think that the buzz that there are problems with Subaru's clutches is true?
It sounds like she was patient (her old Subie still going) and could order a car from the factory, so that's what I think she should do.
Though you could add Ford to the list - the base Escape is 2WD, the seats are half vinyl, and it has no ABS or much else. The base CR-V is also 2WD and the seats are half vinyl.
Tup: consider going back to dino oil, perhaps even a higher weight. Synthetic does indeed find those leaks sooner. See if that helps.
scholli: they've made running changes to the clutch to improve them, at least that's what I've heard.
scholli, I did basically the same as you, test drove the CRV (auto only) and Foresters 5speed on the same day, then bought the Subie last week. The clutch (and transmission) on the new ones is much smoother than my '96 Subie OBS, but whether that will be a problem later on with my '96, or whether the '02 will be better I don't know, but the new one feels better. Keep in mind that clutch life depends a lot on how you drive, and I'm sure there are Honda owners who have had poor clutch life too.
Eric and juice-- So you can factory order a RAV4? I thought that sounded kind of strange when I had people tell me that they couldn't. All I know for sure is that one particular dealer here in my area has told two co-workers of mine that they could not factory order a car from that dealership. So it sounds to me like it's the policy of that particular dealership and not a ToA (?) policy. But yeah, I can't understand why a dealership would not let a customer order a vehicle if they absolutely insisted.
And Monica stated on another board that she wanted a vehicle that was "Entirely and built in Japan or Germany without North American parts" which she could use on a dairy farm so I guess that eliminates the Escape ...but *heh* Audis and BMWs come with vinyl seats (leatherette) but I can't imagine them being used on the farm! I think she should just forget about factory vinyl seats and just have them retrofitted later ...either that or put plastic seat covers over the cloth.
I got it for $200 over invoice, with no additional fees (doc/pdi/handling) but I had to argue about it with the dealer. The invoice price included $225 for advertising so it was $225 more than Edmunds invoice figure. I've seen them sell for less on the internet (at Fitzgeralds in the Wash. DC area), but I don't live there so I did the best I could without a major hassle. I'm really happy with the car so far, by the way (except I've read in Consumers Reports, the Tire Rack, and here that the tires don't do well in snow.)
Hey all. Just recently began reading the board again. I read and posted earlier in the year when my wife and I were looking at the 2001 Blue Ridge Edition, which in the end we couldn't get. This time around we're much more stable and are looking at the 2002 L Auto. Now my question is what does MSRP mean (MSRP is $29395 on carclick.com and on subaru.ca) How does or should it affect my offer or the amount of a 'good deal' I'm getting? So far estimates went as high as $29700 with tire tax and prep incl. to the lowest price of $28395 destination charge incl. I also took the advice of some postings and emailed a number of dealerships in the Montreal area. I've received one call back so far. Advice and help greatly appreciated from all.
I'm looking at purchasing a Thule 840 roof 'basket' to carry luggage, etc on my 99 Forester .... anyone used one of these or have any other suggestions. Need a little more room occasionally for trips --- I have no local dealers so will probably order online -- suggestions? Thanks ... Larry
'rocco: Yes, you can factory order a RAV4, outfitted the way you want it, but many dealers don't seem to want to do this, so they tell buyers that it can't be done.
And I have reason to believe that some dealers take your order, then they watch the incoming regional allotments, choose one that may be close to what you ordered, then tell you the factory must have slipped up - still want it?
And I've heard of two cases where the order was 'lost'. One of these potential buyers has waited 7.5 months thus far. (Typical wait is around 90 days.)
My wife and I are leaning towards purchasing a 2002 Forester L w/ auto (my wife's choice). And we've found a local dealer that will sell any model special ordered for 2% over invoice (which doesn't sound totally unfair).
We'll probably skip most of the options, but I thought I'd ask if anyone wants to make a case for buying any of them--particularly:
Stereo Upgrade: Is the basic stereo good enough or should I shell out a little more money? And more importantly, should I bother with Subaru even if I want a better stereo?
Security System: Should I go through Subaru (what does their system do?) or should I be looking for an after market brand? If it is the latter, can anyone recommend a good and inexpensive system that prevents both auto and stereo theft (so it should probably sound an alarm when glass is broken)?
Comments
I'm disappointed with the gas mileage only because I think they could do better. I was getting around 25mpg on the highway, and that is good, but I drive a lot and I really wanted something that has *excellent* gas mileage. The VW's aren't much better, but the Toyota Matrix looks like it will have good mileage. Oh, well. I'm just a penny pincher/conservation freak.
Oh- and in terms of the airbag I want the side airbags that are in the seat, not necessarily the head curtain airbags.
In response to the questions about the accident:
What was the major cause of your injuries?
-Mostly just the high impact of the wreck due to high speeds. I am guessing my husband's injuries were from the seat belt, but it could have also been the center console. It was amazing- her car stopped where she hit us (in the median), but the energy and impact pushed us all the way from the left lane to the median between the freeway and the feeder, which is on a hill.
Did part of the passenger compartment give way?
-(Just from what I remember waking up inside the car....I haven't been back to visit it)The plastic on the inside of the driver door was splintered and shattered, and I had lots of cuts from that. The driver side front tire was pushed in so far that my legs were trapped between it and the center console. There was a hole in the floor there. I think my foot was broken under the accelerator. The windshield shattered and both of our seats broke. My husband's seat was actually reclining at an angle, plus mine had angled in a little. I had a gash in the back of my head, I don't know what from-- the headrest?
They had to get both of us out of the passenger door b/c the driver door was trashed.
I wonder if side airbags would have kept my pelvis from being broken. I have no idea how my sacrum was shattered- again, I think it was just the high impact.
What happened to the girl and her vehicle?
-Her wrist was broken. She got up and walked out of her car right away, somewhat shaken. I think her car is totaled also.
Eventually I will get a post mortem photo of the car and post the URL here, but it will be a while.
Thanks for the comforting words.
Susannah
Jeff--If you have read this far into this post I will tell you that the back seat in the Forester is not too good for adults but believe it or not, the back seat in my WRX (or any new Impreza wagon) has been more comfortable for the adult passengers who have ridden back there. As to the way the car handles, my '98 L had the narrower taller tires that your S won't have. It can out handle any "sport ute" out there. The S should be better. The L is not a high performance sports car but the way you could corner with it was surprizing.
TWRX
Monica-- Wow! That's going to be difficult ...a/c and power windows seem to be becoming more and more common as standard equipment on most vehicles nowadays. And I'll have to defer to the crew members on the subject of fwd Subarus ...I'm under the impression that all Subarus sold in NA are now awd and I have no idea about what's available in the JDM ...are they (fwd) still available there?
Susannah-- I found another mistake in my post over on the "other" board so I'll delete my post over there and re-post it here and point out the error. I did find that the preliminary MPG on the Matrix to be 27/32 MPG on the standard engine with fwd but I'm sure it will be much less on the awd model, especially with the optional 180 hp engine. But since you did express your decision of going with another Forester again, all this is just extraneous garble anyway. *lol*:
Hi Susannah!~ I remember reading the details of your accident on the Forester board after you originally posted it and I'm glad you and your hubby have recovered! ...man, it made me cringe when you posted it again.
But can you define "excellent" in definitive terms? Were you not getting the gas mileage you expected in your old Forester? Yes, I agree that the gas mileage in the Subarus might not be as good as the cars you mentioned in your list but I don't think it would be that far off. Foresters (or Legacy/Outback using the H4 engine) are going to average above 20 MPG using regualar unleaded. The Passat and the Volvo might get marginally better mileage but they recommend premium unleaded to accomplish it. IMHO if I were in your shoes, since the Forester got you out of that accident alive, then I'd personally feel that I'd want to stay with the vehicle that "saved my life" ...it has excellent crash test ratings as portrayed in their recent TV commercial that compares it with the horrible ratings of the Ford Escape.
Of your listed vehicles, I'd personally think that the Passat would come closest to combining safety with realatively good gas mileage. The Passat also has excellent crash rating data and in addition has head curtain side impact protection. Head curtains are now quite common in the European imports. Although some Japanese and domestic cars now have side impact bags, they lack head curtains ...so head curtains are a definite plus in the safety category. The Passat 1.8T will give you "good" gas mileage but not what I would necessarily condider "excellent." I own a Forester and an Audi A4 1.8T (same engine as in the Passat) which are both less than a year old --they both get about the same gas mileage (21-24 MPG on average, combined city/hwy) but, again, the 1.8T requires premium to get that mileage.
The Toyota Matrix sounds interesting. You're right ...saftey data probably won't be out until after introduction. IMO, I believe that the "first-year-glitches" won't be concern with this vehicle because it is using drivetrains/engines which are currently in use by Toyota in the Corolla and Celica and have proven reliability. I also believe it will be produced at the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA along with the Pontiac Vibe ...if so, that plant has an excellent reputation of quality control. Personally, *now hold on to your hat* I actually like the styling of Pontiac's version more than I do the Matrix (they are "twinned" vehicles, of course). The Vibe is what the Aztek should have been! ...a quote I heard somewhere. Here are the Vibe's specs (but should be similar to the Matrix's): http://www.pontiac.com/vibe/vibe_specs_popup.html
Both are scheduled for introduction in February, I think.
Sounds like you have your heart set on the Matrix but if you can't wait, the Forester, Outback and Passat are the choices I'd consider from your list, if I was in your situation.
Just my $.02, Susannah ...and that's all it's worth. *lol* Good luck and let us know how things progress!
--'rocco
I've did read later that the Matrix/Vibe will be produced at Toyota's Cambridge, Ontario plant and evidently not at the NUMMI plant in California.
--'rocco
Bob
--'rocco
http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/sportswagon/index.html
The second tab from the right should give you the wagon lineup. It's the "I's" model.
Bob
If I downloaded the Windows Japanese language support software, would I have better luck?
--'rocco
Some of it is in english. On that gray bar with japanese letters that runs across the top, click about an inch in from the right.
The picture of the I's indicates both FWD and AWD, and yes it is 1.5L. Which is strange, because the entry-level Impreza WRX sedan (all Impreza sedans are called WRX in Japan) is 2.0L.
Bob
--'rocco
Bob
--'rocco
Bob
--'rocco
Bob
Heh, I guess we are turning this board into an instant messenger :-P
--'rocco
Bob
--'rocco
P.S. - The only "brake related" problem I have noticed is an occasional pull to the left when I'm slowing down very gradually to a stop - but I have had that problem from the beginning and the dealer has checked it out. Other than that the brakes seem fine to me. But obviously I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Thanks for your help!
-mike
None of you opined about the appearance of the spoiler? Care to assuage or justify this tinge of buyer's remorse we're feeling? Does it help keep the rear window clean at all?
Thanks!
Ross
Ross
(<200 miles - already!). purposely did not order any options other than rear deflector (from other vehicles, agree that they are very effective) as it's installation seemed scary - drilling holes in the body is too intimidating.
I will look at ordering some others like arm rest but am curious what experience anyone's had with the dog guard - is it a permanent install or can it be moved forward if seats are folded? anyone have any good experiences with other products - if so, which & where'd you get them? thnx!
Someone asked, so here are my oil change photos and tips and here is my fender flare install. I needed the latter because my wheels have a different offset than stock, it was like a sand blaster on the beach. They look cool, too, to my eyes.
Incentives? Don't hold your breath for rebates, but special financing is available.
Susannah: glad you survived to tell the story. Sounds like an awful collision with very high forces involved. IMO the bigger and heavier Forester would hold up better than a Vibe/Matrix. The S Premium has the side air bags you desire.
Just to prove a point, I rode in Bob's Forester all the way to Philly, in the back seat (just under 2 hours). The person in front of me was short so he was able to move the front seat forward a couple of notches, but I was comfortable. Plenty of foot room under the seats, softer fabric than my 98 L model, and nice big windows and moonroof for a great view.
Just don't put a basketball player behind another basketball player. I'm close to 6", 220 lbs.
If you want a stripped vehicle, see your Toyota dealer. Nothing is standard, they win easily here. The RAV4 doesn't even come with a real rear bumper. It's only FWD, has no floor mats, no A/C, no ABS, no power windows, no power locks, no cargo cover, no mud guards, no fog lights, and I'm sure lots of other things I've left out (or they did, actually).
It's funny because that's usually a negative point! LOL
-juice
Good luck.
I agree - ignore the Toyota base price in the real world.
Still, you can get a lot, including QO package, AWD and auto trans (if that's your choice), for around $22k sticker, $21k purchase. Not bad at all.
In terms of performance, torque is good off the line but they run out of steam sooner than most gas engines would.
-juice
John
juice-- But can you even find a RAV4 strippped like that? A co-worker tried to have a dealer locate a relatively stripped RAV4 and they told him that none are coming in with as few options that he wanted. They wouldn't even let him factory order one. They told him: "Toyotas can't be factory ordered ...you've got to choose from what's available in the region." Now, I don't know if what they were telling him was the truth or just b.s. but I've heard that from other Toyota shoppers ...but maybe (again), it's just a "west coast thing." So he went to the Subaru store and factory ordered an Outback Limited with the exact options he wanted ...*lol*, Toyota loses a customer to Subaru! --way-to-go, SoA!
--'rocco
While replacing the spark plugs (not exactly easy to reach!), I noticed that there is some oil seepage around the head gasket. It doesn't appear significant...really just a little area where you can see some dirt buildup sticking to the oil film there(can be seen on each side). I use a semi-synthetic oil. I know that boxer engines are more prone to oil leaks here due to the way the oil sits on the gaskets. I also know that synthetic oils penetrate seals easier. Should I be pushing the dealer for a head gasket job (still 18,000KM;s on the powertrain warranty) or is this par for the course with boxers? I would hate to have the dealer do an inferior job and then have problems after warranty.
--'rocco
--'rocco
I like what the Premium level offers (side air bags) but not crazy about the colors so I'm going for the S level.
Questions: Anyone here from Massachusetts and can recommend a dealer? What should I expect for prices?
I originally passed on getting a Subaru because I know of several people who have 5-speeds that have had problems with the clutch (a 99 Impreza with the clutch dying at 60,000 doesn't make me feel that good). Do you think that the buzz that there are problems with Subaru's clutches is true?
Though you could add Ford to the list - the base Escape is 2WD, the seats are half vinyl, and it has no ABS or much else. The base CR-V is also 2WD and the seats are half vinyl.
Tup: consider going back to dino oil, perhaps even a higher weight. Synthetic does indeed find those leaks sooner. See if that helps.
scholli: they've made running changes to the clutch to improve them, at least that's what I've heard.
-juice
What kind of deal did you get on the Subie that you just bought?
And Monica stated on another board that she wanted a vehicle that was "Entirely and built in Japan or Germany without North American parts" which she could use on a dairy farm so I guess that eliminates the Escape ...but *heh* Audis and BMWs come with vinyl seats (leatherette) but I can't imagine them being used on the farm! I think she should just forget about factory vinyl seats and just have them retrofitted later ...either that or put plastic seat covers over the cloth.
--'rocco
The invoice price included $225 for advertising so it was $225 more than Edmunds invoice figure.
I've seen them sell for less on the internet (at Fitzgeralds in the Wash. DC area), but I don't live there so I did the best I could without a major hassle. I'm really happy with the car so far, by the way (except I've read in Consumers Reports, the Tire Rack, and here that the tires don't do well in snow.)
This time around we're much more stable and are looking at the 2002 L Auto. Now my question is what does MSRP mean (MSRP is $29395 on carclick.com and on subaru.ca) How does or should it affect my offer or the amount of a 'good deal' I'm getting? So far estimates went as high as $29700 with tire tax and prep incl. to the lowest price of $28395 destination charge incl. I also took the advice of some postings and emailed a number of dealerships in the Montreal area. I've received one call back so far. Advice and help greatly appreciated from all.
Forester .... anyone used one of these or have any other suggestions.
Need a little more room occasionally for trips ---
I have no local dealers so will probably order online -- suggestions?
Thanks ...
Larry
And I have reason to believe that some dealers take your order, then they watch the incoming regional allotments, choose one that may be close to what you ordered, then tell you the factory must have slipped up - still want it?
And I've heard of two cases where the order was 'lost'. One of these potential buyers has waited 7.5 months thus far. (Typical wait is around 90 days.)
So, yes, you can factory order...
--rocco
We'll probably skip most of the options, but I thought I'd ask if anyone wants to make a case for buying any of them--particularly:
Stereo Upgrade: Is the basic stereo good enough or should I shell out a little more money? And more importantly, should I bother with Subaru even if I want a better stereo?
Security System: Should I go through Subaru (what does their system do?) or should I be looking for an after market brand? If it is the latter, can anyone recommend a good and inexpensive system that prevents both auto and stereo theft (so it should probably sound an alarm when glass is broken)?
Any other almost-must have options?
Thanks in advance,
Paul