Paid list ($21,070) minus $1,500 rebate and 2.9% financing.
I wanted the gray interior and ended up with beige as the car had been swapped with another dealer > 250 miles away. I'm pretty sure I forgot to specify the gray interior to the salesman. Called the wife to see if she cared as she liked the gray also. She didn't care. Maybe the beige will be a degree cooler in the hot sun.
All the local dealer had on his lot were LX in gray, black and one velvet blue.
Getting one from another dealer allowed me to skip the paint protection and fabric treatment that EVERY new car on the lot is tagged with that adds $800.
Traded in a Sedona EX 51K miles and received about what Edmund's states trade in value is. Trade in is still not pretty on Kia's.
If KIA was not offering the $1,500 rebate plus the 2.9% financing, I doubt that I would have done this deal.
Really looking to get out of the very heavy Sedona and into something smaller and a bit better mileage. My average on the Sedona was about 19mpg, best ever was 22mpg on long trips.
The Sedona was also having a recurring stalling problem that the dealer couldn't quite nail down other than replacing the air mass sensor once and later re-seating connections to the air mass sensor. It did seem to solve the problem for a 5 month stretch at a time. I didn't want to be paying shop rates after the warranty expired for someone to figure it out.
I drove the LX twice when I did my test drives. It seemed very well mannered and handled very well. I'm not sure about the EX and the 17" Michelin tires. It seems a bit more twitchy and seems to need more attention to keep it tracking compared to the 16" tires on the LX.
Bumps are a little sharper compared to the Sedona, but it doesn't wallow and feels less tippy than the Sedona.
I was getting a very intense two toned whistle with the sun roof open when driving home, but there was a pretty good cross wind and it didn't happen later driving a different direction. The sun roof seems farther back on the roof than most.
Agree - many different factors, including space, can affect a vehicle's sound system. I expect the manufacturer to take all this into consideration when designing the sound system.
Disagree - "The Rondo has loads of head room and space on the inside whereas the Sedona is more compact...just nowhere near the interior space of the Rondo." WHAT?!
The Sedona is a minivan; the Rondo is a small wagon / crossover / whatever you wanna call it. There's really no arguing that the Sedona has much more interior space than the Rondo. I have no idea how the interior space affects a sound system, but facts are facts: the Sedona is much larger inside than the Rondo. Granted, the Rondo is packaged very well -- I was impressed they squeezed in a 3rd row seat, and more impressed that I could live back there for a couple hours if I needed to (I'm 5'9"). But Rondo is still way smaller inside than ANY minivan.
Price: $16,751 ($1,099 under invoice) + $750 cash back + 2.9% financing. (Invoice = $17,850) I used Jim Bragg’s “fighting Chance” methodology to get this deal. I faxed 20 dealers within 850 miles requesting their best price on a popularly equipped vehicle. Got six responses back mostly from small dealerships needing to make their sales quotas for the quarter. Once I had the best deal, I called the dealer and put down a deposit via a credit card until I could get to them. The finance manager admitted he was losing $600+ on the deal immediately, but would make $300 on this if he got his numbers.
Edmunds numbers are correct as to invoice price and various prices for options. However, Kia throws in a $350 charge on the invoice for “regional marketing allowance”. This is the old “group advertising” charge and you usually can’t get away from it.
When I started the process, I first waited for the last week of the quarter. Then I went to Costco affiliated dealers and got their prices. They ranged from $75 to $200 over invoice. I then ran a check on CarsDirect.com to see what the average going price was (averaged at invoice). I now had a trading range for the vehicle and a comparison. The next step was to start the “fax attack” and sit back for results. Three offers were at invoice, one offer at about $700 below invoice, and the offer I took, which was $1,099 under invoice. What this process does is to smoke out the “under the radar” factory-dealer incentives. To be effective though, it needs to be done at the end of the month or better yet, at the end of the quarter when the dealers are hungry.
I applaud you for the work you've done on getting the lowest price that you could. Sounds like you got a really good deal. Myself, I believe the dealer itself has a lot to do with the buying experience, not just the price. Everyone likes to save a bit of money and I would probably had gotten a little better price by going to a bigger town dealer (a lot further away) but having the experience of traveling 30+ miles for service and warranty work is a real pain. I know you can take you car to any KIA dealer but take my word for it, the dealer you purchased your car from is apt to bend over a little more for his own customers. On my old Sportage, a loner car, special fast service when ordering parts and the overall treatment was 100 times better than the Suzuki I just traded in and traveled that 30+ miles so I could get the best deal.
You don't have to take your Kia back to the selling dealer for service or warranty work. Any authorized Kia dealer can, and will, perform the work. This is specifically stated in the warranty booklet. I have done this a number of times, and never had a single problem with obtaining warranty repairs. Generally, the Service Department at a Hyundai or Kia dealership could care less where you bought your car. They're reimbursed by Kia, not the dealership.
...and I said that in my response. I'm saying that a personal relationship with a local dealer where you bought the car can give perks that you won't see elsewhere. I've gotten appointments when service was full for other people. Loaner cars for the day when not authorized. Parts located from other dealers when most people would have to wait days for the part from a distribution center. I'm just saying price isn't the only thing that matters when buying.
I'm new here but lurked quite a lot while I vacillated between the Mazda5 and the Rondo.
I just came out of a 2003 Mazda Protege5 that I loved. Great exterior size, great handling although it coulda used more power. My two kids are doing nothing but growing. Watching them struggle in and out of the rear doors was painful for me. But I'm getting waaaaay too old to sit that low in a car. My tired old knees complained every time I got in and out.
Ogled the Mazda5 when they first came out. And I was firmly convinced I'd simply replace my current Mazda with that Mazda......
Then the Rondo came out. And I was impressed.
The more I examined it, these things leapt out at me - Useful for me - - waaaay more comfortable seats - slightly wider - slightly shorter - a huge PLUS living in Toronto - better safety features like Traction Control - better all-round visibility - better sensation of power - didn't struggle up small hills when I was alone in the car and just trying it out!! - more up-front storage spots - sunroof is situated better for my driving position - less claustropohobic up-front seating area - more room in the footwell - more room behind the third row of seats
Better for my kids - - higher rear seat cushions - rear arm rests are in the doors, not on the seats only - rear glass goes all the way into the doors - rear HVAC is off the centre console with some degree of adjustment - not a wimpy under-the-front-seat plastic duct
The buying experience started out great. I was in the car leasing business for 13 years and called the owner of the dealership to get an idea of pricing. He suggested a great markup in the neighbourhood of what I would have paid in my fleet leasing days. The owner told the manager about my upcoming call. Went over to do the deal.
Fortunately I'd called other dealers to get bare costs. This clown agreed to the markup the owner suggested but kept moving it up by $400 when he'd be in the leasing screen on his computer. I'd catch it and tell him to put it back to the agreed-upon amount. He'd agree. Then he'd put the $400 into another area on the screen's lease worksheet.
Ran the numbers on my HP when I got in. Yep. He yanked it up by the $400 again.
Returned to pick up the car. "Suggested" we go back over the numbers. Some mealy-mouthed nonsense about, "Well - you WATCHED me enter the numbers....."
I finally leave with my car - four hours later. All of it spent watching him like a hawk on the +/- $400 he kept moving around and small "calculation errors" in the ancillary fees.
Needless to say, retail car salespeople are not exactly divinity students. You can imagine I edited this last statement over and over again - I just didn't want to sound too crazed. It's funny - the other managers at this owner's other dealerships are all straight arrows when it comes to pricing - it's just this guy was a .......
As far as the cool stuff goes - I love the car. The Rondo exhibits pleasant handling (the great handling was the only thing I LOVED about the Mazda5) and is SO comfortable! No more stiff neck or pins and needles in my right shin. Great visibility. And quiet!
Smith Kia of Bellingham/Burlington, WA. I dealt directly with the finance manager on this. A word of caution though, he needed numbers, so I doubt that you will get a similar deal until the end or the month or end of the quarter.
Am I ever envious of you guys in the States. Here in Canada, it's almost unheard of getting a car for under invoice price. I ordered my Rondo for about $600 under MSRP or a grand over invoice. As far as I know, that's about as good as it gets for a new model car at this time of year with no rebates or incentives being offered (there's the $500 grad program, but I'm way too long in the tooth to qualify for that ).
I live near the border and I've read about how to purchase a car in the States and potentially save thousands of dollars, but I just didn't have the time (or patience) to go through the hassle.
I am 35 miles south of Seattle right next to Puyallup. The dealer was Smith Kia of Bellingham. They also have a lot south of there in Burlington. Better to buy at Burlington because the sales tax is less in that county.
I bought my Rondo at Kia Autosport in Albany, GA. I was lucky because the owner needed two cars to make an Incentive and it was the last day of the month. I had a price and I stuck to it. The owner followed me out to my car and made another offer which I turned down. At around 10:30 that evening he finally gave in and met my price and then I asked for him to toss in dark window tinting, which he did.
I have done this with Toyota and Hyundai in the past for a corolla and an elantra respectively and they would not meet or even come close to my price.
That's the way to do it, however I just don't like to haggle with auto salesman and I chose the "fax attack" method instead. Although I got a good deal, I think there was more savings to be had. I reviewed Kia's first quarter results on their web site (which were impressive) and I can't help thinking they had some real dealer-factory incentives in play here to get to those numbers.
Well, we decided that we do want to buy a Rondo , but boy, is it frustrating dealing with the dealers!
I signed up for on-line price quotes, but none of the dealers would quote a price--they all want me to show up at their dealership. Grrr. I finally fussed at them via e-mail, and 1 offered an LX 6-cylinder with 3rd seat and convenience group for 19,052, and one offered an unspecified Rondo for 18, 995. But I haven't been there yet, so I don't know what tricky little extra fees they are going to try to tack on.
And the dealer closest to me that I did go to (and I brought all my consumerreports and edmunds.com downloads)only offered me $400 off of MSRP, even after I told him that I wouldn't discuss the MSRP, that I was only willing to discuss a price based on the dealer invoice.
Double Grrr. :mad:
Needless, to say, I walked out. (Nicely--I shook hands with him and told him truthfully that I'd gotten a much better price at a dealer an hour away.) He's had that Rondo on his lot for 4 months now, you'd think he would have been happy to get rid of it.
So--am I doing something wrong, is this just part of the gmae I hafta play? :confuse:
I think it depends on where you live. I too see some of the deals people say they got, and shake my head. The dealers in my area were not willing to go too far below sticker. I finally got the dealer to take $200 off the sticker and then he came up $500 on my trade, probably did it that way to make it look as if I had more equity on my trade. (more attractive to the lender)After the rebate and special financing I feel like I got a pretty good deal.
If you don't feel like getting dealers to compete with each other (for example, I walked into one and handed them a copy of a quote from another dealer, they have no choice but to beat it), you can just spend the $50 or so and get a BJ's (or similar) membership. I know for a fact that with BJ's auto, if you request a quote thru them, the BJ's member price is basically invoice, just MAKE SURE you talk to the BJ's contact person at the dealer and insist on that price, they HAVE to give it to you.
Wow, 2 replies already? That was quick. Thanks, guys!
Sorry, I haven't heard of BJ's? Are they in Western Pennsylvania? Do Costco and Sam's Club have the same deal?
And I did show the dealer the e-mail from the hour-away-dealer offering a better price, and he said, "If you can get it for that price, take it, we can't sell it to you for less than what we offered you."
I'm just worried that my husband and I will rearrange our work schedules to get out to this other dealer, and they will try to rip us off and not stick to their e-mail offer.
Yeah Costco should have a similar deal, but at least with BJ's not every dealer participates so you'd have to check. I would probably get the far-away dealer to give you the VIN of the *exact* car you are talking about that they have on their lot, and make sure its right. Tell them you definitely want that exact car, but that you are only driving out there for that exact car and if they don't have it, you're buying from the local place. Get them to hold it for you, get the financing set, and get an offer in writing for that VIN with all the details worked out so you just have to go there & sign & get the keys.
Yesterday I helped a friend purchase a 2007 Kia Rondo EX V6. Her Rondo had the premium package ($1200) and the leather package ($1000). The MSRP with those options was $22,995. The invoice is $21395. The purchase price was $20,800, which is $595 below invoice. We got this price without the $750 rebate that we did not qualify for because we did not finance the car through Kia Financial Services. By the way, we live in the Chicago-land area.
The Kia Rondo seems like a very interesting option compared to buying a large minivan. Does anybody know, if the second row would be able to accomodate a booster seat, regular car seat, and an infant car seat. I don't feel like the 3rd row would be safe for car seats and small chidren. Appreciate any feedback.
The 3rd row doesn't have any of the rings and clips that the 2nd row has and is not made for car seats. The second row has 4 small buttons showing exactly where the "D" rings are located and also has the small bars in the back of the seats for the straps and clips that go over the top of the seat.
Thanks for your quick response Do you know if the second row is wide enough to accomodate 3 car seats? From the pictures, the 2nd row middle seat appears very narrow.
Go to fighting chance.com and use the fax attack method they recommend. Frankly, most dealers won't deal at this time of the quarter. You either have to hit them in the last week of the month or the last week of the quarter. From the amount of advertising in the Seattle market, Kia really wants to sell cars.
The 2nd row is 48 inches wide. The 4 buttons at the bottom of the seat-backs indicate there's only 4 "D" rings for 2 car seats, BUT, there's 3 small bars (for the over the top straps) built into the backs of the seat indicating you can have 3 car seats on the second row. So maybe the middle car seat would share the center "D" rings with the outside seats.
Those "D" rings are for child seats that use the LATCH system. According to the manual: "LATCH lower anchors are only to be used with the left and right rear outboard seating positions. Never attempt to attach an LATCH equipped seat in the center seating position. You may damage the anchors or the anchors may fail and break in a collision."
In summary, the number of child seats that you can have in the 2nd row:
1) Up to two LATCH child seats
2) Up to three child seats that use the tether-anchor system (the tether attaches to hook holders behind the 2nd row seats)
3) Up to three regular child seats that don't use the above two methods
4) A combination of the above three methods
This also depends on how bulky the child seats are--it might be impossible to fit three in the 2nd row if they are too bulky.
Well, the dealer that had the supposedly good offer emailed me with a "Whoops, my sales manager gave me the wrong price, and we have the EX not the LX, so it's $2000 more than I quoted."
If you go back and read my original posting I strongly suggested people use "Fightingchance.com" fax attack principal. It won me $1,099 under invoice. Send the fax to all dealers within reasonable driving range in the last week of the month or better yet, the last week in the quarter. I sent out 20 and got back 6 and 2 were worth considering. If there is a Costco near you, they usually arrange for $75 to $200 over invoice. If you are thinking Saturn, be prepared to pay MSRP and no dickering on anything.
It was several years ago (end of the SL, I think), when the local Saturn dealer had many low mileage (thirty or forty miles) used cars on the lot at discount. Not sure if that is still going on. Maybe when the Ion gets replaced.
I tried the Costco in our area, and they say that they can't find a local Kia dealer who will consider Costco's competitive rates, and do I want to try another make/model.
I tried Sam's Club, and the dealer associated with them is supposed to get back to me with a quote within 48 hours. What do you want to bet he will say, "When can you come in?" without giving me a quote??
Sigh...
What I can't understand is, it's not like Kias are flying off the lots around here--the one we test-drove has been on the lot for 4 months now, and it only had 45 miles on it (12 driven by us), so it's not like it's getting a lot of test drives, either. I would have thought the dealer would be happy to get rid of it!
>...I tried Sam's Club, and the dealer associated with them is supposed to get back to me with a quote within 48 hours. What do you want to bet he will say, "When can you come in?" without giving me a quote?? [Gill] I guess I would see if I could find the nearest Dealer. How far are you willing to travel to find something?
>...What I can't understand is, it's not like Kias are flying off the lots around here--the one we test-drove has been on the lot for 4 months now, and it only had 45 miles on it (12 driven by us), so it's not like it's getting a lot of test drives, either. I would have thought the dealer would be happy to get rid of it! [Gill] Well, they are flying off the lots in the Seattle market. Usually, there is a two month reserve built into the invoice for flooring. Some manufactureres hide it and some come out and list it on the invoice as "allowance for financial reserve" or something like that.
How far away have you looked so far? If you are in an area with little competition, you're probably not going to make any progress unless you look farther away. I live within 15 minutes of 3 Kia dealers, and didn't get a good price from any of them until I got a quote from a place in Philly that is around an hour away.
I think what it comes down to is that the price on the window sticker is there for people who are happy going to the nearest place, picking out a car, and paying sticker. If you want to get a price better than MSRP or than their standard "lowest possible price" if you say you're not happy with that, you need to do some haggling. Not a lot, but definitely some.
It doesn't matter whether you're willing to drive 2+ hrs to buy a car (though you might need to be), send an email/fax to all those places, saying you got a quote for $x and are looking for a better price, and will only drive all the way to their lot if they can quote you with a significantly lower price and can guarantee they have the exact car you're looking for. Some places won't (not can't, won't) do that, so you have to try a half dozen at least. Eventually someone will, then you take that written quote to your local place who has it in stock, hand it to the sales manager and say "I will buy this car right now if you can beat this price, otherwise I am leaving and will buy it from the other dealer". Don't sit down, don't give them your trade-in's keys, wander around the showroom, leave your coat on, etc. until you get a dollar amount, but be clear to them that you will sign right now if the price is right. If the sales manager beats/matches the price (or comes within $100 or whatever), great, otherwise say "thanks anyway" and turn around and walk out to your car. The sales manager already knows whether they can really match/beat the price, and will quickly change their mind unless the sale will really be a loss for them. If they don't, you know not to go back to that dealer.
I have only contacted 4 dealers--1 local, 1 40 minutes away, and 2 an hour away. I got an email from one that was an hour away, saying she had exactly the car I wanted (she listed the model, options, etc), and offering it for $19053, which was $1200 less than the local dealer's offer. So I brought the email to the local dealer, he didn't budge, and I left.
And the hour-away dealer is now saying that her manager made a mistake and that the car is actually $1300 more than she'd originally said. (Gee, I'm glad I didn't drive out there!)
So I will take your advice, and extend my search further out. I just wish these dealers weren't so darn dishonest! :mad:
You can probably extend your search into Ohio & other states too, just double-check with the taxes... I live in DE and if I bought in PA, I would pay tax as if I bought it in DE. A similar thing would probably work for OH (though I think PA's taxes are about the worst anyway). I'd give you the name of the guy I got mine from, but you probably don't want to drive 6 hrs except as a last resort (though its probably worth it if you would really save $1200).
Ooh, things might be getting better! The Greensburg dealer (the one an hour away) emailed me offering the Rondo LX V6 with convenience package and third row seat for 19,691 plus tax and plates. I can check out the Sam's Club dealer, and even email some Chicago dealers (I have family there), since I read a couple of pages back that someone got a good (under dealer invoice!) deal there, and see if I can get some competition going here.
Wish me luck! (lots and lots of luck--I don't seem to have the stomach for this!)
Littlepebble, could you possibly post the name of the dealership where your friend purchased her car? Although I am in Pittsburgh, I have family in the Chicago area, and it's certainly reasonable for me to take a train or bus there, and drive a new car back!
>...Is Kia giving the Seattle dealers more incentives? [Gill] I don't know, but in my case, the dealer had two lots and both are in semi rural towns. The finance manager admitted to me that they were loosing over $600 on my deal, but if they made their "numbers", they would make $300. Each dealer has different numbers to meet, so it is hard to say why my deal went through and others don't. I made my purchase on the last day of the quarter which made a difference. I also noticed that the lot was full of cars, but few rondos and a delivery semi just rolled in with more stock. It seems there was some sales pressure on the dealer.
Today I received this email was from Monroeville (PA) Kia:
"Great news we just got in a 3-row seating LX/V6 Rondo with cloth interior. I will honor the penney over invoice sale for one day only even though this sale has ended. My sales manager will only do this deal for you today. I really don't want to see you travel all the way to Chicago.
This is best I can do on the Rondo for 60mths and 72mths for qualifying customers.
M.S.R.P = $20,665 INVOICE = $19,938 REBATE = $750 APR = 3.9% @ 60MTHS PAYMENTS = $385 TOTAL FINANCED = $20,999.78 INCLUDES TAXES AND PLATES --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------- M.S.R.P = $20,665 INVOICE = $19,938 REBATE = $750 APR = 5.50% @ 72MTHS PAYMENTS = $343 TOTAL FINANCED = $20,999.78 INCLUDES TAXES AND PLATES"
My reply was this:
Hi, (nameless dealer),
According to both consumerreports.com and edmunds.com, the invoice prices are as follows:
Base invoice: $17,795 Destination charge $ 600 Third row seat $ 425 ______________________________ Total $18,820
That's $1,118 lower than what you are calling "invoice price"--and that's not even taking the $534 dealer holdback into consideration.
Could you please tell me where that extra $1,118 came from?
Also, as I mentioned before, in order to get to Monroeville, my husband and I have to to take time off work to get out there; that has to be arranged in advance. If your manager is only offering this "deal" for a few hours, then I think we would be better off going to Chicago! Better that than risking losing my job--I am only allowed to leave early for documented emergencies.
Sincerely, Taximom5
Now--question for you guys out in edmunds.com-land:
Am I doing something wrong? Or are my expectations too high? I've NEVER had this much trouble getting a decent offer from a dealer before. I've always marched in with my dealer invoice sheets, and the dealer would offer me a car for a few hundred dollars over the REAL (ahem) invoice. I've always bought Hondas, whose PA dealers are notorious for commanding close to MSRP prices, too.
You are leaving out the $350 "regional marketing" charge; this is advertising expense. Also, they may be nocking you for flooring as well. Vehicles in the Seattle market with a 3rd row seat arn't moving given the loss of cargo room and the cost.
You did a good job of challenging the dealer on pricing, keep in touch so we know how he answered the question.
I've been watching this thread for awhile, but only for interest as I'm not in the position as to where I needed to save every dollar I could when buying my wife's Rondo. I just wanted a close-by dealer (10 miles) and one that I've worked with before (we had a 2002 Sportage from them). Our dealer knocked off $1000 from the sticker, $1000 more than Kelly's Blue Book had for our trade-in and a $750 rebate, plus we took advantage of the 3.9% financing. So I was happy.
Anyway, back to your question. You say there was a $1,118.00 difference in price in what you wanted and what they offered, but just maybe the 3 LX/V6's that came into the dealer all had the Premium package (Infinity Stereo/Power Sunroof) which I paid $1200 but dealer price could be about $1,118. He can't give that away and has to tack something on to the price quoted. Just a thought.
I thought edmunds.com and consumerreports.com said that we shouldn't let the dealer tack on advertising costs, as that is their cost of doing business?
Thanks for the pat on the back, I'm so frustrated by these dealers , I really need all the encouragement I can get!!!
Comments
Paid list ($21,070) minus $1,500 rebate and 2.9% financing.
I wanted the gray interior and ended up with beige as the car had been swapped with another dealer > 250 miles away. I'm pretty sure I forgot to specify the gray interior to the salesman. Called the wife to see if she cared as she liked the gray also. She didn't care. Maybe the beige will be a degree cooler in the hot sun.
All the local dealer had on his lot were LX in gray, black and one velvet blue.
Getting one from another dealer allowed me to skip the paint protection and fabric treatment that EVERY new car on the lot is tagged with that adds $800.
Traded in a Sedona EX 51K miles and received about what Edmund's states trade in value is. Trade in is still not pretty on Kia's.
If KIA was not offering the $1,500 rebate plus the 2.9% financing, I doubt that I would have done this deal.
Really looking to get out of the very heavy Sedona and into something smaller and a bit better mileage. My average on the Sedona was about 19mpg, best ever was 22mpg on long trips.
The Sedona was also having a recurring stalling problem that the dealer couldn't quite nail down other than replacing the air mass sensor once and later re-seating connections to the air mass sensor. It did seem to solve the problem for a 5 month stretch at a time. I didn't want to be paying shop rates after the warranty expired for someone to figure it out.
I drove the LX twice when I did my test drives. It seemed very well mannered and handled very well. I'm not sure about the EX and the 17" Michelin tires. It seems a bit more twitchy and seems to need more attention to keep it tracking compared to the 16" tires on the LX.
Bumps are a little sharper compared to the Sedona, but it doesn't wallow and feels less tippy than the Sedona.
I was getting a very intense two toned whistle with the sun roof open when driving home, but there was a pretty good cross wind and it didn't happen later driving a different direction. The sun roof seems farther back on the roof than most.
Nice pics. Pics showing tinted windows were great too. I'm considering tint, but will see what summer brings here in Philly.
Disagree - "The Rondo has loads of head room and space on the inside whereas the Sedona is more compact...just nowhere near the interior space of the Rondo."
WHAT?!
The Sedona is a minivan; the Rondo is a small wagon / crossover / whatever you wanna call it. There's really no arguing that the Sedona has much more interior space than the Rondo. I have no idea how the interior space affects a sound system, but facts are facts: the Sedona is much larger inside than the Rondo. Granted, the Rondo is packaged very well -- I was impressed they squeezed in a 3rd row seat, and more impressed that I could live back there for a couple hours if I needed to (I'm 5'9"). But Rondo is still way smaller inside than ANY minivan.
Price: $16,751 ($1,099 under invoice) + $750 cash back + 2.9% financing. (Invoice = $17,850)
I used Jim Bragg’s “fighting Chance” methodology to get this deal. I faxed 20 dealers within 850 miles requesting their best price on a popularly equipped vehicle. Got six responses back mostly from small dealerships needing to make their sales quotas for the quarter. Once I had the best deal, I called the dealer and put down a deposit via a credit card until I could get to them. The finance manager admitted he was losing $600+ on the deal immediately, but would make $300 on this if he got his numbers.
Edmunds numbers are correct as to invoice price and various prices for options. However, Kia throws in a $350 charge on the invoice for “regional marketing allowance”. This is the old “group advertising” charge and you usually can’t get away from it.
When I started the process, I first waited for the last week of the quarter. Then I went to Costco affiliated dealers and got their prices. They ranged from $75 to $200 over invoice. I then ran a check on CarsDirect.com to see what the average going price was (averaged at invoice). I now had a trading range for the vehicle and a comparison. The next step was to start the “fax attack” and sit back for results. Three offers were at invoice, one offer at about $700 below invoice, and the offer I took, which was $1,099 under invoice. What this process does is to smoke out the “under the radar” factory-dealer incentives. To be effective though, it needs to be done at the end of the month or better yet, at the end of the quarter when the dealers are hungry.
I applaud you for the work you've done on getting the lowest price that you could. Sounds like you got a really good deal. Myself, I believe the dealer itself has a lot to do with the buying experience, not just the price. Everyone likes to save a bit of money and I would probably had gotten a little better price by going to a bigger town dealer (a lot further away) but having the experience of traveling 30+ miles for service and warranty work is a real pain. I know you can take you car to any KIA dealer but take my word for it, the dealer you purchased your car from is apt to bend over a little more for his own customers. On my old Sportage, a loner car, special fast service when ordering parts and the overall treatment was 100 times better than the Suzuki I just traded in and traveled that 30+ miles so I could get the best deal.
I'm new here but lurked quite a lot while I vacillated between the Mazda5 and the Rondo.
I just came out of a 2003 Mazda Protege5 that I loved.
Great exterior size, great handling although it coulda used more power.
My two kids are doing nothing but growing.
Watching them struggle in and out of the rear doors was painful for me.
But I'm getting waaaaay too old to sit that low in a car.
My tired old knees complained every time I got in and out.
Ogled the Mazda5 when they first came out.
And I was firmly convinced I'd simply replace my current Mazda with that Mazda......
Then the Rondo came out.
And I was impressed.
The more I examined it, these things leapt out at me -
Useful for me -
- waaaay more comfortable seats
- slightly wider
- slightly shorter - a huge PLUS living in Toronto
- better safety features like Traction Control
- better all-round visibility
- better sensation of power - didn't struggle up small hills when I was alone in the car and just trying it out!!
- more up-front storage spots
- sunroof is situated better for my driving position
- less claustropohobic up-front seating area
- more room in the footwell
- more room behind the third row of seats
Better for my kids -
- higher rear seat cushions
- rear arm rests are in the doors, not on the seats only
- rear glass goes all the way into the doors
- rear HVAC is off the centre console with some degree of adjustment - not a wimpy under-the-front-seat plastic duct
The buying experience started out great.
I was in the car leasing business for 13 years and called the owner of the dealership to get an idea of pricing.
He suggested a great markup in the neighbourhood of what I would have paid in my fleet leasing days.
The owner told the manager about my upcoming call.
Went over to do the deal.
Fortunately I'd called other dealers to get bare costs.
This clown agreed to the markup the owner suggested but kept moving it up by $400 when he'd be in the leasing screen on his computer.
I'd catch it and tell him to put it back to the agreed-upon amount.
He'd agree.
Then he'd put the $400 into another area on the screen's lease worksheet.
Ran the numbers on my HP when I got in.
Yep.
He yanked it up by the $400 again.
Returned to pick up the car.
"Suggested" we go back over the numbers.
Some mealy-mouthed nonsense about, "Well - you WATCHED me enter the numbers....."
I finally leave with my car - four hours later.
All of it spent watching him like a hawk on the +/- $400 he kept moving around and small "calculation errors" in the ancillary fees.
Needless to say, retail car salespeople are not exactly divinity students.
You can imagine I edited this last statement over and over again - I just didn't want to sound too crazed.
It's funny - the other managers at this owner's other dealerships are all straight arrows when it comes to pricing - it's just this guy was a .......
As far as the cool stuff goes - I love the car.
The Rondo exhibits pleasant handling (the great handling was the only thing I LOVED about the Mazda5) and is SO comfortable!
No more stiff neck or pins and needles in my right shin.
Great visibility.
And quiet!
Howard
I live near the border and I've read about how to purchase a car in the States and potentially save thousands of dollars, but I just didn't have the time (or patience) to go through the hassle.
I bought my Rondo at Kia Autosport in Albany, GA. I was lucky because the owner needed two cars to make an Incentive and it was the last day of the month. I had a price and I stuck to it. The owner followed me out to my car and made another offer which I turned down. At around 10:30 that evening he finally gave in and met my price and then I asked for him to toss in dark window tinting, which he did.
I have done this with Toyota and Hyundai in the past for a corolla and an elantra respectively and they would not meet or even come close to my price.
I signed up for on-line price quotes, but none of the dealers would quote a price--they all want me to show up at their dealership. Grrr. I finally fussed at them via e-mail, and 1 offered an LX 6-cylinder with 3rd seat and convenience group for 19,052, and one offered an unspecified Rondo for 18, 995. But I haven't been there yet, so I don't know what tricky little extra fees they are going to try to tack on.
And the dealer closest to me that I did go to (and I brought all my consumerreports and edmunds.com downloads)only offered me $400 off of MSRP, even after I told him that I wouldn't discuss the MSRP, that I was only willing to discuss a price based on the dealer invoice.
Double Grrr. :mad:
Needless, to say, I walked out. (Nicely--I shook hands with him and told him truthfully that I'd gotten a much better price at a dealer an hour away.) He's had that Rondo on his lot for 4 months now, you'd think he would have been happy to get rid of it.
So--am I doing something wrong, is this just part of the gmae I hafta play? :confuse:
Anyone have any advice?
Sorry, I haven't heard of BJ's? Are they in Western Pennsylvania? Do Costco and Sam's Club have the same deal?
And I did show the dealer the e-mail from the hour-away-dealer offering a better price, and he said, "If you can get it for that price, take it, we can't sell it to you for less than what we offered you."
I'm just worried that my husband and I will rearrange our work schedules to get out to this other dealer, and they will try to rip us off and not stick to their e-mail offer.
(Sigh) Saturn is getting more appealing...
Do you know if the second row is wide enough to accomodate 3 car seats? From the pictures, the 2nd row middle seat appears very narrow.
In summary, the number of child seats that you can have in the 2nd row:
1) Up to two LATCH child seats
2) Up to three child seats that use the tether-anchor system (the tether attaches to hook holders behind the 2nd row seats)
3) Up to three regular child seats that don't use the above two methods
4) A combination of the above three methods
This also depends on how bulky the child seats are--it might be impossible to fit three in the 2nd row if they are too bulky.
I HATE these bait-and-switch tactics.
Saturn is looking better and better....
I tried Sam's Club, and the dealer associated with them is supposed to get back to me with a quote within 48 hours. What do you want to bet he will say, "When can you come in?" without giving me a quote??
Sigh...
What I can't understand is, it's not like Kias are flying off the lots around here--the one we test-drove has been on the lot for 4 months now, and it only had 45 miles on it (12 driven by us), so it's not like it's getting a lot of test drives, either. I would have thought the dealer would be happy to get rid of it!
[Gill] I guess I would see if I could find the nearest Dealer. How far are you willing to travel to find something?
>...What I can't understand is, it's not like Kias are flying off the lots around here--the one we test-drove has been on the lot for 4 months now, and it only had 45 miles on it (12 driven by us), so it's not like it's getting a lot of test drives, either. I would have thought the dealer would be happy to get rid of it!
[Gill] Well, they are flying off the lots in the Seattle market. Usually, there is a two month reserve built into the invoice for flooring. Some manufactureres hide it and some come out and list it on the invoice as "allowance for financial reserve" or something like that.
Darn, wish we were closer to Seattle (we're in Pittsburgh)!
I think what it comes down to is that the price on the window sticker is there for people who are happy going to the nearest place, picking out a car, and paying sticker. If you want to get a price better than MSRP or than their standard "lowest possible price" if you say you're not happy with that, you need to do some haggling. Not a lot, but definitely some.
It doesn't matter whether you're willing to drive 2+ hrs to buy a car (though you might need to be), send an email/fax to all those places, saying you got a quote for $x and are looking for a better price, and will only drive all the way to their lot if they can quote you with a significantly lower price and can guarantee they have the exact car you're looking for. Some places won't (not can't, won't) do that, so you have to try a half dozen at least. Eventually someone will, then you take that written quote to your local place who has it in stock, hand it to the sales manager and say "I will buy this car right now if you can beat this price, otherwise I am leaving and will buy it from the other dealer". Don't sit down, don't give them your trade-in's keys, wander around the showroom, leave your coat on, etc. until you get a dollar amount, but be clear to them that you will sign right now if the price is right. If the sales manager beats/matches the price (or comes within $100 or whatever), great, otherwise say "thanks anyway" and turn around and walk out to your car. The sales manager already knows whether they can really match/beat the price, and will quickly change their mind unless the sale will really be a loss for them. If they don't, you know not to go back to that dealer.
I have only contacted 4 dealers--1 local, 1 40 minutes away, and 2 an hour away. I got an email from one that was an hour away, saying she had exactly the car I wanted (she listed the model, options, etc), and offering it for $19053, which was $1200 less than the local dealer's offer. So I brought the email to the local dealer, he didn't budge, and I left.
And the hour-away dealer is now saying that her manager made a mistake and that the car is actually $1300 more than she'd originally said. (Gee, I'm glad I didn't drive out there!)
So I will take your advice, and extend my search further out. I just wish these dealers weren't so darn dishonest! :mad:
Wish me luck! (lots and lots of luck--I don't seem to have the stomach for this!)
Thanks!
[Gill] I don't know, but in my case, the dealer had two lots and both are in semi rural towns. The finance manager admitted to me that they were loosing over $600 on my deal, but if they made their "numbers", they would make $300. Each dealer has different numbers to meet, so it is hard to say why my deal went through and others don't. I made my purchase on the last day of the quarter which made a difference. I also noticed that the lot was full of cars, but few rondos and a delivery semi just rolled in with more stock. It seems there was some sales pressure on the dealer.
"Great news we just got in a 3-row seating LX/V6 Rondo with cloth interior. I will honor the penney over invoice sale for one day only even though this sale has ended. My sales manager will only do this deal for you today. I really don't want to see you travel all the way to Chicago.
This is best I can do on the Rondo for 60mths and 72mths for qualifying customers.
M.S.R.P = $20,665
INVOICE = $19,938
REBATE = $750
APR = 3.9% @ 60MTHS
PAYMENTS = $385
TOTAL FINANCED = $20,999.78 INCLUDES TAXES AND PLATES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------
M.S.R.P = $20,665
INVOICE = $19,938
REBATE = $750
APR = 5.50% @ 72MTHS
PAYMENTS = $343
TOTAL FINANCED = $20,999.78 INCLUDES TAXES AND PLATES"
My reply was this:
Hi, (nameless dealer),
According to both consumerreports.com and edmunds.com, the invoice prices are as follows:
Base invoice: $17,795
Destination charge $ 600
Third row seat $ 425
______________________________
Total $18,820
That's $1,118 lower than what you are calling "invoice price"--and that's not even taking the $534 dealer holdback into consideration.
Could you please tell me where that extra $1,118 came from?
Also, as I mentioned before, in order to get to Monroeville, my husband and I have to to take time off work to get out there; that has to be arranged in advance.
If your manager is only offering this "deal" for a few hours, then I think we would be better off going to Chicago! Better that than risking losing my job--I am only allowed to leave early for documented emergencies.
Sincerely,
Taximom5
Now--question for you guys out in edmunds.com-land:
Am I doing something wrong? Or are my expectations too high? I've NEVER had this much trouble getting a decent offer from a dealer before. I've always marched in with my dealer invoice sheets, and the dealer would offer me a car for a few hundred dollars over the REAL (ahem) invoice. I've always bought Hondas, whose PA dealers are notorious for commanding close to MSRP prices, too.
:confuse:
You did a good job of challenging the dealer on pricing, keep in touch so we know how he answered the question.
I've been watching this thread for awhile, but only for interest as I'm not in the position as to where I needed to save every dollar I could when buying my wife's Rondo. I just wanted a close-by dealer (10 miles) and one that I've worked with before (we had a 2002 Sportage from them). Our dealer knocked off $1000 from the sticker, $1000 more than Kelly's Blue Book had for our trade-in and a $750 rebate, plus we took advantage of the 3.9% financing. So I was happy.
Anyway, back to your question. You say there was a $1,118.00 difference in price in what you wanted and what they offered, but just maybe the 3 LX/V6's that came into the dealer all had the Premium package (Infinity Stereo/Power Sunroof) which I paid $1200 but dealer price could be about $1,118. He can't give that away and has to tack something on to the price quoted. Just a thought.
Thanks for the pat on the back, I'm so frustrated by these dealers , I really need all the encouragement I can get!!!