not enough...not anything really, just having fun with all you jokester's out there in the great ethereal internet plane...
That's too bad because I was looking into being a soulless, forum trolling, corporate whore, shill and I was going to use your pay as a bargaining baseline. Oh well...
"That's too bad because I was looking into being a soulless, forum trolling, corporate whore, shill and I was going to use your pay as a bargaining baseline. Oh well..."
I'm suspecting you are well on your way as you'll probably have a few more weeks to perfect the technique before they deliver the lambda you've been waiting since mid-March for, if the order has even been placed of course.
kidding, just kidding...is this where I ask the host to get us back on topic???
"Looks are a matter of taste, and only fools argue about that, right? Now performance, ride, handling, mileage, etc. are not matters of taste."
I would have to argue though, that it is rude to subject others to the ugly styling of your vehicle when most of the time, all you see yourself is the interior. We should all be driving the vehicle that looks the best to the majority so as not to offend those we drive around. We therefore need to make the decision as to which looks the best and worst.
I would have to argue though, that it is rude to subject others to the ugly styling of your vehicle when most of the time, all you see yourself is the interior. We should all be driving the vehicle that looks the best to the majority so as not to offend those we drive around. We therefore need to make the decision as to which looks the best and worst.
That is, perhaps, the most absurd statement I have ever seen.
It's not the most absurd I've seen. Better absurdity mining in politics and religion! I suspect that dnash was kidding, but if he wasn't, then this should enter the absurdity contest for this forum..
I don't like leather, never felt the need to have my seat heated (maybe cooled, but not heated!), standard wheels are fine with me, I use Mapquest over a navigation system, if I need a camera to reverse, then I need to get another car!, fold-down DVDs are a waste unless you only have one kid, so I'll guess I'll get off cheap.
What I'm interested in is space, safety, MPG, handling, ride, climate control for all rows, storage places, reliability, and price.
"I would have to argue though, that it is rude to subject others to the ugly styling of your vehicle when most of the time, all you see yourself is the interior. We should all be driving the vehicle that looks the best to the majority so as not to offend those we drive around. We therefore need to make the decision as to which looks the best and worst."
I think the author meant to use the word "I" instead of "we", or maybe it just doesn't make any sense.
So far as I know only Communist countries allowed the majority to decide what was or wasn't offensive (looking) to others. And look what great cars they produced... :surprise:
I mean, I feel similar about the Pontiac Aztec, but I would never say so in a public forum. Oops... And in any case I defend the Aztec's owner's choice as right for him/her.
Yes, I was kidding, but some of the reactions that people have to other's opinions of looks (or power, or amenities) would make you think that something like this is in place.
I just tested the CX-9 awd, Acadia awd, MKX fwd, and Edge awd. I have a particular uphill onramp that I use to compare performance. I'll list the results and you can draw your own conclusions.
My old 2003 Yukon XL Denali speed at top 80 mph. Wife's 2007 Mazda 6S auto -- 80 mph 2007 Toyota Prius -- 65 mph MKX fwd -- 77 mph Edge awd -- 76 mph CX-9 awd -- 75 mph Acadia awd -- 70 mph
The wife and I both bought Mazdas. She bought the 6S 5 door and I bought the CX-9.
The performance was the only thing I can comment on objectively. The rest is a mixture of needs, wants, and personal preferences.
That was a very hard choice. In my case the Lincoln dealer also sells Mazda. I had already eliminated GMC because the Acadia drove like a bus and had about the same performance as a school bus. I really liked the Lincoln, it has a nice light feel, it performs well, and it has a nice ride without being sloppy. The CX-9 GT is even sportier in feel, performs comparably, but has a pretty harsh ride. The ride doesn't bother me and I liked some of the tech stuff that wasn't available in the Lincoln. Namely Bluetooth and the advanced keyless system. The Lincoln just didn't offer anything to justify the additional $9,000.
Early indications are that the advanced keyless system is going to be one of those things like my first TV remote, color TV, AC equipped car, iPod, etc. In the future, I probably won't even consider a car without the feature. So far I'm very happy with the CX-9.
I don't like leather, never felt the need to have my seat heated (maybe cooled, but not heated!), Gotta have the leather- stays so much cleaner than some cloth and smells better. And heated seats are just a toy I like to have- but don't we all have one option we just want?
standard wheels are fine with me, I use Mapquest over a navigation system, if I need a camera to reverse, then I need to get another car!, fold-down DVDs are a waste unless you only have one kid, so I'll guess I'll get off cheap.
totally agree. Navigation systems bring down resale value and are expensive fixes. Fold down DVDs? Why? Spend 800-1800 extra when I can (and did) go to best buy and get two 10" monitors for 100 a piece? Don't think so! Backup camera and wheels? waste of time! And If I really feel the urge, theres a thing called aftermarket. In many cases, it's not the cars that are expensive-it's the TOYS. One option that I do recommend is the remote car starter. I don't get cold very easily, but I'm hot in no time. Cooling the car before you get in is a great luxury.
I still like fabric seats. Leather gets cold in the winter, really hot in the summer, and takes more maintenance to keep it from cracking and looking worn in the long run. With a good fabric, you just vacuum and wash out any stains...my opinion....
That's why i like heated/ cooled leather. It's the one option I willingly pay for. Cracking leather-some is worse than others. Honda leather-sorry to offend any one but IT SUCKS. But in older dodge Caravans (8-10 years old) leather is GREAT with wear. Not exactly sure about oother model years. I do know the Montego's leather holds up pretty wel- so maybe it would in the 500/ FS, too. Chrysler has that new YES essntials fabric. I''ve heard that's good at reppeling odor and stains.
To another question: I was on Ford's website and noticed something: You can have a detailed look at the 2009 Flex, but see nothing more than a picture of the 2008 Taurus X. What's up with that? You can see a future hot product, but not an essential product in Ford's near future lineup.
The CX-9 GT model has 19" wheels. 19 inch wheels. Real Plus! And if you really want em, You can get19-20's on Enclave. I've heard a lot of great stuff about the Enclave. But truthfully, nothing that much greater than the Acadia. I even like the Acadia's styling better. It's really fresh and Bold.
I agree. I insisted on leather on my last eight cars. Of course with leather you have to have seat heaters in winter, and they are still sticky in summer, unless you have seat coolers. Leather also wears faster than most modern seat fabrics and it needs more maintenance.
But then I got suede seats and they were so much better. I cannot understand why they are practically unavailable. My latest car now has cloth (with heaters too). To each his or her own, but I will never go back to leather.
My family consists of me, my wife and our 2 children - ages 11 and 6. We have a 2001 Chrysler Town & Country minivan. Most of the time it is just the 4 of us, but occasionally, we haul a few friends & family members. We do not do a lot of cargo hauling.
The minvan has been very good - seating capacity wise. It has been very easy to pickup a few extra passengers - comfortable for the 3rd row passengers, and now flipping or folding seats to get back there.
Looking at some of the CUVs, they certainly do look and feel a sportier that my minivan. We have mostly focused on the Mazda CX9 and the Acadia/Enclave. But I have to say that I am having some sepration anxiety from the minivan.
The 2nd row captains chairs of the Acadia/Enclave seem more comfortable to me - maybe becuase they are closer to the minivan configuration - compared to the 2nd row bench seat of the CX9. But the Mazda CX9 seems to ride/driver smoother. I am having a hard time choosing.
I see Ford has priced it, and it is only a bit more than the outgoing FS. However, considering it has the 3.5 engine, the tiny price increase may be a bargain.
But what's with that clumsy throwback big old seamed airbag cover on a 2008??? That look was fine in my 1998 Ranger, but even the little Mazda2 now has no airbag seams. The VW Golf got rid of all the dash seams as long ago as the 1999 model. More and more people are beginning to notice these details. Ford just has to do better and the sooner the better.
We have some very passionate people here in this thread. Glad to see folks are having a sense of humor about it.
I'll say this, if you have to ask what you get going from $30k to $40k, then stick with the $30k model. Obviously those things are not a priority for you, else you would have been looking for them in the first place!
It's simply choosing between a little more comfort, and a little more performance (though the choice definitely won't be easy!). The CX-9 is the sportier of the two, and handles a little better. But the Acadia/ Enclave has more space and comfort for about the same size, and still perform well. So if you are not wanting to move far from your minivan, go Acadia. But if you want sporty, go with the CX-9. They will both be priced about the same, so that probably won't be an issue.
It was smart of Ford to keep the price about the same, but this increase puts the TX very close to other competitors, such as Outlook. I think the FS had going for it it's bargain price. And who knows- there might be a lot of discounts like there are on the FS right now. But this price enclosure will make people really take a look at the product. Because bargain pricing is no longer an offered plus-for now.
"It's simply choosing between a little more comfort..."
hence the point of a CUV,
"and a little more performance..."
oxymoron, you don't buy a CUV for performance.
and if the mazda folks were serious about performance they'd get rid of the 20" boat anchors they call wheels. It astounds me they'd do that under the zoom zoom pretense, no it doesn't they want to make money(rightly so) as 20" wheels means "performance" to most buyers.
More performance relative to each other, not to a Corvette. The CX-9 definitely has less body roll and is more stiffly sprung (than the Lambdas). Additionally, the 20" wheels allow for a shorter sidewall tire, which contributes to better handling.
I think we're all aware that you don't buy a CUV to perform similarly to a sports car. However, their performance levels are different, relative to each other.
But what most people don't know is that the larger wheel's increase in unsprung weight actually inhibits better performance, increases braking distances, choppier ride due to lower sidewall, etc., etc...
Hence most people thinking that more is always better. The "dub" generation is the group that really missed the boat on this and illustrates the point best actually. It's all about the visual bling with no real gain in "performance" implied or otherwise.
If the 20's w/tires on the CX actually weighed less than the 19's w/ tires then you might have an argument in terms of unsprung weight only as choppy ride would still apply but I'm pretty sure mazda didn't go to the effort to make that happen.
"More performance relative to each other, not to a Corvette"
But if you hang out around here long enough you'll find that people are hoping gm will drop the ls-2, why stop there how about the crate 502 in the lambda platform to make a CUV that does compete with the vette and haul 7 doing it, are perfectly willing to accept 12mpg and will call it progress... because what we have out there now just isn't enough...
I'll concede that the majority of wheel 'upgrades' are mostly cosmetic. I would guess that only the true, high performance cars have wheel upgrades for performance reasons (larger, yet lighter). A larger wheel, if heavier than the smaller wheel, will probably only offer an advantage during steady state cornering, on a relatively smooth surface.
I would also assert that the majority of the people here have no desire to see/buy a V-8 in the lambdas. There will always be a few, but $4/gal gas will trim that number even further. Doesn't GM have a hybrid V-8 in some trucks? That might be interesting...
As a side note, saw a blurb on the news tonight that full-size SUV sales are up 6% (not sure what time period), probably due to the great 'deals' you can get on them.
"A larger wheel, if heavier than the smaller wheel, will probably only offer an advantage during steady state cornering, on a relatively smooth surface."
and ANY advantage would be lost in braking...I know I wouldn't want that...
"As a side note, saw a blurb on the news tonight that full-size SUV sales are up 6% (not sure what time period), probably due to the great 'deals' you can get on them."
Or possibly the fact that the CUV's don't offer enough of an advantage yet to compel people to give up on their behemoths that play to their image of success, safety and subtlety. (I'll concede to the towing crowd, but other than that the MAJORITY of SUV's will never see dirt... it's just like the dubs, it's all image...
I am also tryign to weigh the importance of a dealer located cloer versus a dealer located further. The CX9 and the Enclave, in my opinion, compete pretty well with each other - a lot of similar features. I like the "feel" of the CX9 a little bit better, but I like the 2nd row captains chairs of the Enclave.
But I am also trying to consider the importance, or not, of going with a GMC/Buick dealer who is 5-minutes from my hosue, versus the Mazda dealer who is 30-40 minutes away. I don't go to the dealer very often, but when I have to go, closer seems to work out better.
I am trying to figure out how much weight to give dealer location in my comparison.
To me, the big issue with dubs is cost - tire cost. 20s will almost always have both shorter tread life and higher (sometime 2X higher) replacement cost. My co-worker was stunned to have to pay $200 per tire for 18" on her RX after 25k miles, after being used to $100 per and 40k life. Hate to think about the first new set of 20s.
It's can be hard to compare MSRP on these vehicles...maybe not on the new ones because dealers usually stick to the MSRP initially, but after 6 months to a year, the domestics CUV will all start getting cheaper due to incentives, rebates, end-of-year closeouts, etc..., so unless you HAVE to buy right now, the best thing is to do your road tests now, figure out for sure what you want, and then wait until Nov-Dec to buy. You will probably be able to buy the loaded Acadia going for $40K today for at least $5K less.
In the past, larger tire diameters seemed to be mostly limited to stickier tires, which have far shorter lives and generally cost more. Now that more and more vehicles are coming with larger wheels, regular all-season tires are more readily available in larger diameters. A quick search on www.tirerack.com shows a good set of Goodyear tires for the CX-9 GT for $163 each. Several years ago they would have been even more expensive. In contrast, my 1999 Camry's 14" tires have become more expensive because nearly all new cars come with larger diameter wheels than that now.
...but that's nearly the same as a comparable set of 16" tires for my Intrepid. My point is just that as more vehicles use larger diameter wheels, price will decrease.
I didn't pay that much for the tires on my Intrepid. :P
Each vehicle in this comparison has 17" wheels or bigger now. Alot of people seem to like the look of larger wheels, myself included, as long as they don't make the ride to harsh. Many people do not think of the long term cost though. Atleast there are valid all-season tires available in these larger sizes now.
I'm hooked on the Hyundai Veracruz, but am just having troubles with finding the color combinations. My question is...has ANYONE seen the black leather interior (SE)? I've ONLY seen gray interior. I'd like black on black, but I literally can't find it anywhere (I live in San Diego, but have been to/called dealers in San Diego, Orange County, LA, Riverside). Does this combo exist?
I want VCruz, SE trim, w/ the P & L package (no dvd) black/black.
Comments
not enough...not anything really, just having fun with all you jokester's out there in the great ethereal internet plane...
That's too bad because I was looking into being a soulless, forum trolling, corporate whore, shill and I was going to use your pay as a bargaining baseline. Oh well...
I'm suspecting you are well on your way as you'll probably have a few more weeks to perfect the technique before they deliver the lambda you've been waiting since mid-March for, if the order has even been placed of course.
kidding, just kidding...is this where I ask the host to get us back on topic???
Yes, let's please get back on topic. We don't want to scare off the noobs and lurkers.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I would have to argue though, that it is rude to subject others to the ugly styling of your vehicle when most of the time, all you see yourself is the interior. We should all be driving the vehicle that looks the best to the majority so as not to offend those we drive around. We therefore need to make the decision as to which looks the best and worst.
That is, perhaps, the most absurd statement I have ever seen.
I'm calling the contest off!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
What I'm interested in is space, safety, MPG, handling, ride, climate control for all rows, storage places, reliability, and price.
I think the author meant to use the word "I" instead of "we", or maybe it just doesn't make any sense.
So far as I know only Communist countries allowed the majority to decide what was or wasn't offensive (looking) to others. And look what great cars they produced... :surprise:
I mean, I feel similar about the Pontiac Aztec, but I would never say so in a public forum. Oops... And in any case I defend the Aztec's owner's choice as right for him/her.
I have a particular uphill onramp that I use to compare performance. I'll list the results and you can draw your own conclusions.
My old 2003 Yukon XL Denali speed at top 80 mph.
Wife's 2007 Mazda 6S auto -- 80 mph
2007 Toyota Prius -- 65 mph
MKX fwd -- 77 mph
Edge awd -- 76 mph
CX-9 awd -- 75 mph
Acadia awd -- 70 mph
The wife and I both bought Mazdas. She bought the 6S 5 door and I bought the CX-9.
The performance was the only thing I can comment on objectively. The rest is a mixture of needs, wants, and personal preferences.
Early indications are that the advanced keyless system is going to be one of those things like my first TV remote, color TV, AC equipped car, iPod, etc. In the future, I probably won't even consider a car without the feature. So far I'm very happy with the CX-9.
Gotta have the leather- stays so much cleaner than some cloth and smells better. And heated seats are just a toy I like to have- but don't we all have one option we just want?
standard wheels are fine with me, I use Mapquest over a navigation system, if I need a camera to reverse, then I need to get another car!, fold-down DVDs are a waste unless you only have one kid, so I'll guess I'll get off cheap.
totally agree. Navigation systems bring down resale value and are expensive fixes. Fold down DVDs? Why? Spend 800-1800 extra when I can (and did) go to best buy and get two 10" monitors for 100 a piece? Don't think so! Backup camera and wheels? waste of time! And If I really feel the urge, theres a thing called aftermarket.
In many cases, it's not the cars that are expensive-it's the TOYS. One option that I do recommend is the remote car starter. I don't get cold very easily, but I'm hot in no time. Cooling the car before you get in is a great luxury.
To another question:
I was on Ford's website and noticed something: You can have a detailed look at the 2009 Flex, but see nothing more than a picture of the 2008 Taurus X. What's up with that? You can see a future hot product, but not an essential product in Ford's near future lineup.
Whoosh! That was the sound of his sarcasm going right over your head/ :P
19 inch wheels. Real Plus!
And if you really want em, You can get19-20's on Enclave.
I've heard a lot of great stuff about the Enclave. But truthfully, nothing that much greater than the Acadia. I even like the Acadia's styling better. It's really fresh and Bold.
But then I got suede seats and they were so much better. I cannot understand why they are practically unavailable. My latest car now has cloth (with heaters too). To each his or her own, but I will never go back to leather.
The minvan has been very good - seating capacity wise. It has been very easy to pickup a few extra passengers - comfortable for the 3rd row passengers, and now flipping or folding seats to get back there.
Looking at some of the CUVs, they certainly do look and feel a sportier that my minivan. We have mostly focused on the Mazda CX9 and the Acadia/Enclave. But I have to say that I am having some sepration anxiety from the minivan.
The 2nd row captains chairs of the Acadia/Enclave seem more comfortable to me - maybe becuase they are closer to the minivan configuration - compared to the 2nd row bench seat of the CX9. But the Mazda CX9 seems to ride/driver smoother. I am having a hard time choosing.
But what's with that clumsy throwback big old seamed airbag cover on a 2008??? That look was fine in my 1998 Ranger, but even the little Mazda2 now has no airbag seams. The VW Golf got rid of all the dash seams as long ago as the 1999 model. More and more people are beginning to notice these details. Ford just has to do better and the sooner the better.
Leather vs Cloth Seats
I have one car with (hot) black leather seats and one with (now dirty) cloth and much prefer the cloth (although the cloth ones aren't heated).
I'll say this, if you have to ask what you get going from $30k to $40k, then stick with the $30k model. Obviously those things are not a priority for you, else you would have been looking for them in the first place!
Not true in my case...I just don't like to waste $$ for options I don't want or will never use.
It was smart of Ford to keep the price about the same, but this increase puts the TX very close to other competitors, such as Outlook. I think the FS had going for it it's bargain price. And who knows- there might be a lot of discounts like there are on the FS right now. But this price enclosure will make people really take a look at the product. Because bargain pricing is no longer an offered plus-for now.
hence the point of a CUV,
"and a little more performance..."
oxymoron, you don't buy a CUV for performance.
and if the mazda folks were serious about performance they'd get rid of the 20" boat anchors they call wheels. It astounds me they'd do that under the zoom zoom pretense, no it doesn't they want to make money(rightly so) as 20" wheels means "performance" to most buyers.
sorry, I just don't get it as usual...
oxymoron, you don't buy a CUV for performance. "
More performance relative to each other, not to a Corvette. The CX-9 definitely has less body roll and is more stiffly sprung (than the Lambdas). Additionally, the 20" wheels allow for a shorter sidewall tire, which contributes to better handling.
I think we're all aware that you don't buy a CUV to perform similarly to a sports car. However, their performance levels are different, relative to each other.
Hence most people thinking that more is always better. The "dub" generation is the group that really missed the boat on this and illustrates the point best actually. It's all about the visual bling with no real gain in "performance" implied or otherwise.
If the 20's w/tires on the CX actually weighed less than the 19's w/ tires then you might have an argument in terms of unsprung weight only as choppy ride would still apply but I'm pretty sure mazda didn't go to the effort to make that happen.
"More performance relative to each other, not to a Corvette"
But if you hang out around here long enough you'll find that people are hoping gm will drop the ls-2, why stop there how about the crate 502 in the lambda platform to make a CUV that does compete with the vette and haul 7 doing it, are perfectly willing to accept 12mpg and will call it progress... because what we have out there now just isn't enough...
I would also assert that the majority of the people here have no desire to see/buy a V-8 in the lambdas. There will always be a few, but $4/gal gas will trim that number even further. Doesn't GM have a hybrid V-8 in some trucks? That might be interesting...
As a side note, saw a blurb on the news tonight that full-size SUV sales are up 6% (not sure what time period), probably due to the great 'deals' you can get on them.
Mark
and ANY advantage would be lost in braking...I know I wouldn't want that...
"As a side note, saw a blurb on the news tonight that full-size SUV sales are up 6% (not sure what time period), probably due to the great 'deals' you can get on them."
Or possibly the fact that the CUV's don't offer enough of an advantage yet to compel people to give up on their behemoths that play to their image of success, safety and subtlety. (I'll concede to the towing crowd, but other than that the MAJORITY of SUV's will never see dirt... it's just like the dubs, it's all image...
But I am also trying to consider the importance, or not, of going with a GMC/Buick dealer who is 5-minutes from my hosue, versus the Mazda dealer who is 30-40 minutes away. I don't go to the dealer very often, but when I have to go, closer seems to work out better.
I am trying to figure out how much weight to give dealer location in my comparison.
Each vehicle in this comparison has 17" wheels or bigger now. Alot of people seem to like the look of larger wheels, myself included, as long as they don't make the ride to harsh. Many people do not think of the long term cost though. Atleast there are valid all-season tires available in these larger sizes now.
I'm hooked on the Hyundai Veracruz, but am just having troubles with finding the color combinations. My question is...has ANYONE seen the black leather interior (SE)? I've ONLY seen gray interior. I'd like black on black, but I literally can't find it anywhere (I live in San Diego, but have been to/called dealers in San Diego, Orange County, LA, Riverside). Does this combo exist?
I want VCruz, SE trim, w/ the P & L package (no dvd) black/black.
Thanks!