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Ford has SYNC, Dodge has MyGig, what is GM working on? :confuse:
To me, that's secondary, though. I'm not shopping for a stereo, I'm shopping for a vehicle. I suppose if you work out of your car (traveling sales) that would matter more, but then I would want something a whole lot more fuel efficient anyway.
Thanks for the update on the Traverse.
Is any reason why? Is it bigger or handles better, or better interior design?
I don't know how CX-9 can better then Lambdas. Today, I think GM lambdas has adventure over others car models. You can choose from the family of four different design vehicles. There're at same time looks like and other hand they're different.
The good move by GM.
Veracruz (43,900)
CX-9 (45,500)
Ouch, I feel for you guys up there. My wife and I finally made our decision, and we bought the CX-9 GT. Final price after taxes, fees, etc was $35.7k. No major options except for roof rack, Sirius radio, and back-up camera built into the visor.
The Enclave was my wife's next favorite. It's a great car, and it's quieter than the CX-9, but she felt it wasn't responsive enough (I guess that issue will be taken care of with the 2009 models--more HP).
My opinion of them is all based on styling right now as I've only sat in them and not driven them. If C&D, MT, Edmunds, and a host of other reviews are to be trusted I'm sure I'll like the CX-9 better after I drive all of them too. Having owned a Mazda6 a couple of years ago I became a big fan of Mazda's vehicles too.
I don't think the Lambdas look bad, I just prefer the styling of the CX-9 to any of the 4. Now if a Lambda comes in several thousand dollars less than a comparably equipped CX-9 then I would definitely buy one. I don't see that happening though.
Same here juice. But I've already decided that pretty much all of the choices in this segment are within a hair of each other anyway. That leaves me to choose one based on my secondary criterium. Lease price and value. Even another Explorer or a Mountaineer aren't off our radar yet as they do everything we want them to do.
I can officially rule the Traverse out now though. I sent the photos to the wife and she hated it. She really liked the new Edge Sport though so who knows what we'll be getting. I did ask her to start narrowing down her requirements though so I can start watching for trends in incentives and lease deals.
No- well not except for the Traverse. That's a real van w/out sliding doors.
According to whom? Discussions aren't limited to the 9 options under the "Learn More" section, last I checked with a host.
I did see that in the paper actually. I believe it was on a Limited model no less, but I haven't seen it anymore. IIRC Subaru makes you opt for the Limited trim to get the rear DVD from the factory. So I'll have to keep an eye out for that one next year.
Another attractive lease was for the XC90. They were offering a decent rate and throwing in their factory twin screen headrest DVD system at no extra charge. I'm pretty sure that's over now though.
And I find the Enclave to be stylish....in a way. It wouldn't be my top pick. But then again, I dont need anything bigger than mid-size. I just need enough room for me, my pup & the boy! :shades:
Though you were long gone! Guess you couldn't stay away from the chaos!
Really we haven't spoken much about small CUVs, and a while back some of us told someone to start a seperate discussion for small utes, as it would better benefit them. So there's nothingwrong with a little small CUV talk here and there, but those who are really interested would be better benefittedthere (if that forum exists- does it?).
There are some comparison small CUV threads, but everyone seems to have landed here. I just assumed it was open season for all CUVs.
Like it or not, It's obvious Buick spent some quality time on this one- time that saved the brand!
I think I heard your faint screams through the snow in the distance...
enjoy.
I'm surprised no one has brought that up yet. I've always felt the new Chevy designs are more evolution than revolution but that's not how they are being reviewed it seems. The mags are almost gushing over the Malibu and I'm sure they'll do the same with the Traverse. IMO they still look like the minivan flops only a bit more rounded and polished. They look good, but they aren't anything really new if you think about it and actually look at them side by side.
Uplander:
Traverse:
Thanks albook. I hope that we will be happy with the Enclave.
Yes, prices here are much higher than in the US and I suspect over time, that the difference will slowly be reduced, probably through a combination of increasing US prices and decreasing Canadian prices.
I noticed recently that GM raised their prices a little bit in the US.
And here in Canada, most automakers have been offering big incentives of cash back and/or low interest financing. For example the Toyota Highlander we looked at, had a $4000 Cash back, PLUS 0.9% financing, PLUS the dealer would knock about $3000 off the msrp. Too bad it didn't suit our particular needs.
And now, Toyota is one of the first to start lowering their retail prices in Canada. For example, a Lexus RX350, was previously priced at $53000 (base) but had $8500 cash back. Now they have eliminated the cash back, and started pricing it at $44500 instead. Although the result is the same, the lower msrp, knocks the heck out of the values in the used car market.
I imagine that other auto companies will be dropping their prices as well.
Good for you...the Enclave is the best styled lambda in my opinion and since it's style/image that's leading people to buy large CUVs vs minivans, than it seems to be working. It used to be that people who didn't want to be "seen" driving a minivan would buy a huge SUV and now it's change to big CUVs.
What's funny to me is that even though in these forums we talk about specs and other logical aspects of a vehicle, it's really just image/style that makes most Americans buy them. The problem I see is that once the big CUV style/image wears off and families are using it on a daily basis and for vacations, I think they're going to get tired of climbing up into it because of the extra ground clearance they really don't need, will get tired of their kids swinging open the huge rear doors into other cars and on their garage walls, will get tired of the small 2nd & 3rd rows (as compared to a minivan) and method to get back into the 3rd row (again as compared to a minivan), and will get tired of loading stuff on the roof because with three rows in use, the big CUVs still only have about 1/2 the cargo room of a minivan, and in general may wonder if the style/image is really worth losing all of the practical benefits and extra featurs of a minivan.
Granted the average American isn't the most logical & practical car buyers, again just look at the popularity of the huge SUVs and it's obvious, but then maybe they're getting smarter and maybe that's why Honda & Toyota are keeping their minivans and even Chrysler's new mid-sized CUV isn't designed to compete with their T&C. Anyway, enough soap-box!
What's funny to me is that even though in these forums we talk about specs and other logical aspects of a vehicle, it's really just image/style that makes most Americans buy them. The problem I see is that once the big CUV style/image wears off and families are using it on a daily basis and for vacations, I think they're going to get tired of climbing up into it because of the extra ground clearance they really don't need, will get tired of their kids swinging open the huge rear doors into other cars and on their garage walls, will get tired of the small 2nd & 3rd rows (as compared to a minivan) and method to get back into the 3rd row (again as compared to a minivan), and will get tired of loading stuff on the roof because with three rows in use, the big CUVs still only have about 1/2 the cargo room of a minivan, and in general may wonder if the style/image is really worth losing all of the practical benefits and extra featurs of a minivan.
Thanks bobw3. You've described our situation pretty well. It's not that we were embarassed to be seen driving a minivan, as we had 6 of them (although I know plenty of people who would be). But, my wife WAS "tired" of the minivan look (station wagon too). I can say that I was a bit tired of it too, except that my practical side really wanted to get a Honda Odyssey. But now that we are getting the Enclave, I am actually excited to be getting something that looks and drives nicer than a minivan. In the future, if CUVs become the next "minivan/soccer mom/grocery getter" vehicle, then they may also become stigmatized. But then, the most successful automakers will come out with something else to satisfy consumer wants. Sometimes the consumer just needs/wants a change.
That's the most sense from this thread in ages. Kudos.
The dreaded M-word!
If anyone spots a Forester in a dealership, please give me a heads-up. I'd like to test drive one ASAP.
Where were you that you could negotiate off MSRP for the Toyota? Here in BC they have been very rigid about sticking to "ACCESS PRICING" even after they were taken to court. My attempts to deal were unsuccessful and two brokers I dealt with said that price reductions were essentially token. Made me walk last year. Has this changed recently?
But I can't agree more with this post. When we priced the VC against the Enclave, the base Enclave came out $5K more than the VC (real world quotes, not MSRP).
And not only did we pocket $5K, but for our trouble, the VC gave us:
- AWD (lockable!)
- Fully Heated High Qualtiy Leather
- Sunroof
- Rear Parking Assist
- As Much or More Front and Second Row Leg and Hip Room (verified on GM Canada website and through sitting in the vehicles - though it is admittedly marginal)
- AND a Five Year Warranty to Boot
What kind of value is all that worth? Hard to say. But most manufacturers seem to be charging $1K+ for leather, $1K+ for Sunroof, $2K + for AWD (GM is $3K!), etc., etc.
The value equation was so compelling given all the above that no matter how we tried we couldn't make a strong argument NOT to buy the VC. Not to mention it's fantastic on its own merits.
Somebody else on one of the boards called the VC "one of the best kept secrets in the current automotive world". We're now two months into ours and are in complete agreement with this.
I will say that mileage has been somewhat dissapointing. 17MPG thus far. But lots of snow lately so that AWD is getting a workout! So that's certainly had an impact.
It's obvious that the Taurus X is more carlike than some other CUVs, but it doesn't make it a non-CUV.
That's a very valid point. The Forester is often referred to as an SUV as is the Volvo XC70. Do either of them look like an SUV? I think not too. Classifying these vehicles is very tricky sometimes.
On a side note grad, what did your aunt (it was your aunt right?) end up buying? And no, I'm not some creepy stalker who follows you around. :surprise:
:P
As to size, the Enclave may be bigger, but I certainly wouldn't call the VC mid-size. Can you provide your definition? Or is it another "anything smaller than a Lambda isn't full size"? What other CUV's are full size? From my viewpoint, I consider any of the vehicles with 3 real rows that could accomodate adults full size. VC qualifies on that score along with Lambdas,CX9, and TX. I think Highlander is the cusp between large and mid.
Temps have been average or above. Hovering around 0 degrees most days (32 farenheit). And we've done 40% hwy / 60% city.
Sit an individual who knows squat about cars and as such has zero bias, into a base Enclave and a VC and ask them which is more "luxurious". If you haven't done this, as my wife and I have, you might be surprised at the answer you get.
We also found the VC more roomy than the CX9 and TX, so if those aren't full size, what is? And as I mentioned earlier, even GM's website acknowledges the VC as having more leg and hip room than the Enclave in the first two rows. The third row in the Enclave has the edge and I can verify that with first hand experience. Having said that though, we've taken some pretty lengthy drives with two adults in the third row of the VC without complaint.
And vad, you'd mentioned comparing pricing with the Acadia as a more fair approach. We did. The base Acadia/Outlook were about $1.5K - $2K more than what we paid for the VC. And the VC had all those advantages I listed in my earlier post and then even more against Acadia/Outlook. Ex. Steering Wheel Audio Controls.
The GM's are great, I just think the VC convincingly separated itself from the pack when I deconstructed all the data in the spreadsheets I created as we shopped.
Rather than call this thread "Crossover Superbowl"...perhaps it might be fair to rename it "Crossover Grey Cup"?
It's crazy someone said VC better than Lexus. Anyway Hyundai will be middle class auto.
Buick is a lux car and always has been so.
VC in same class as a Saturn or Acadia.
Decades of Skyhawks, Skylarks, Century Sedans, and Regals say otherwise to me.