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Comments
-juice
If anything I would be concerned about getting the grease removed to prevent any smell from the grease burning off.
Ken
-juice
Bummer to lose those. Maybe they removed them for aesthetics?
I do know that the new roof rails are aluminum, while my '98 were steel.
-juice
98 Forester L
I started out expecting a CRV and wound up buying the 03 X Forester.
Thanks for your feedback. I called my insurance company and got some quotes for insurance. The base Outback with auto will cost me $150 more a year than my present car. The XS Forester with auto will cost $300 more a year to insure.
Too bad I just can't hit lotto and buy the H6 VDC...
A friend told me that Hertz does rent Subarus so I am going to call them tomorrow and find out what they have and see about renting one for a weekend.
I showed some folks at work the IIHS crash test results and they were very favorably impressed.
The worst thing I have heard about the Subaru's came from a friend who said that they were not "chick magnets". LOL
I was in the same boat just a couple of months ago and ultimately decided to get a 2003 Forester X 5spd. I wanted a car that would seat two adults comfortably (firm seats/good lumbar), excellent safety, excellent range (for an AWD vehicle), usable interior space for larger objects, less than 20K ( w/o tax and after negotiating) and something fun,fun,fun to drive. In a nutshell, a fun,fun,fun-to-drive AWD station wagon under 20K. Given these boards, I also expected the car to be a higher maintenance item vs my experiences I mention below.
I've driven Honda products and continue to own a 2000 Accord 5spd. My wife and I are not motor geeks, routinely go thousands of miles beyond basic maintenance deadlines such as oil and fluid changes and completely skip those 30K, 60K, etc. suggested maintenance stops that cost hundreds. In short, we neglect our vehicles inside and out.
Our biggest unscheduled repair bills to date have been related to an oil pan and manifold (?) gasket repair (<$150> on the '93 Accord. Our '89 Civic had 135K, '93 Accord had 176K at trade-in for the X, and 2000 Accord has currently 50K. As far as clutch replacement goes, the '89 at 110K and '93 was still original. I'm also married, no children. So there's our baseline.
My assumption is you're interested in the CRV-EX 5spd vs. the Forester X 5spd. If you're interested in usable space (utility), longevity/reliability with a minimum amount of effort on the part of the owner and of course (passive/collision) safety , then I'd probably go with the CRV. You'll also get the sunroof, 6cd changer and that picnic table int the back. Of course, this car should also cost about $1700 more than the Forester X 5spd given the CRV's current demand.
If you're interested in active safety (full-time AWD and lower-center-of-gravity (less likely to roll in emergency maneuver)), better passive safety (head airbags), better fuel mileage (21/27 vs 21/25) with greater range between fill-ups (~380 vs 429 miles), cheaper price (without tax, my X was about 19,800 vs 21600 for the CRV), and finally roof accessibily (roof-rack closer to ground ('cause I'm not that tall)) and fun-to-drive factor, then the Forester is for you.
If you're interested in the XS, then I'm not sure what I'd recommend.
Frankly, after the "new-ness" has worn off, I just want the car to work and absolutely not be a hassle. What constitutes a hassle? Visiting the dealer for service items not at all related to routine maintenance. And after three Hondas, the baseline has been established for the my X. So far, it's doing well.
I'll say well because I'm having the same rotten-egg smell others have talked about on this site (and frankly, I think the "bad gas" explanation is bogus as no other car I've driven as rentals(Cheverolets, Fords, Suzukis, Mitsubishis,DMX's and Hondasa)for month-long periods (1K miles/month) and fueled at the same stations have NOT had this problem))as well as a shimmy in the steering wheel that I'm sure is related to wheel balancing even though the local Subaru dealership has balanced and rotated them once and on the second visit for the same issue it was explained to me that it was normal. So, off I go to another Subaru dealership to see if they can't fix the challenging items on a car with less than 6K on the odometer.
Both issues are more of an annoyance, but we're not exactly off to a stellar start because I've been to a dealership now twice and expect to be at one more in the next couple of weeks. That will be a total of two more visits than I experienced with the Hondas in the past ~13 years (remember the gaskets (3-1=2)), again, for issues not related to routine maintenance.
Now some will step in and say I'm just a "one-off" or I'm unlucky and that you may be just as likely to have problems with Hondas - and that is absolutely true. Statistically though, if you rank Japanese brands...
I continue to enjoy owning the X and I'm hopeful in the long-run these problems will be fixed. But it's also the long-run that will determine whether I can recommend this car to anyone. Given my experiences, I'm open ...
Definitely rent one if you can, before buying. What a great idea.
They may not attract materialistic, shallow, fickle females, but do you even want to? I picked up my wife in a scooter on our first date. 125cc Honda Elite, hang on good lookin'!
That rotten egg smell was, in my case, eau de Subaru, or what I like to call "Subaru New Car Stench". It's the undercoating applied at the factory, burning off parts of the exhaust. Mine took months to go away. Washing the undercarriage helped, FWIW.
Not to minimize your experience, but statistically Consumer Reports put Subaru and Toyota on top, ahead of Honda. That's today. I happen to think that Hondas have gone down hill a bit, you'll notice the Civic is only rated "Average" in reliability and has already suffered a whopping 6 recalls.
Honda also had 24000 tranny failures (per an Automotive News article I read), though at least they extended the warranty and covered those.
The CR-V is still much better than average, but the new one had a couple of hiccups - seats that rocked in their base (even after a TSB fix), noisy brakes, other driveline noises (steering), etc.
Subaru is definitely not perfect, but both Honda and Subaru are better than average. Noone is having stalling engines or fires, or anything as bad as some other sport/cutes.
In fact reading these boards can be a bad thing - with tens of thousands of these things on the road, you're bound to have more than a few bad experiences. In fact, people with a problem are likely to seek out help at this Town Hall, if you think about it.
-juice
98 Forester L
Thanks
S.Donadio@snet.com
I also own a 98 Forester and I notice that the rear motor will squeek for a short time if it hasn't been used in a long time. Since I live in CA, I can go 6 months without rain.
My guess is that the oil dries up a bit from disuse and a few revolutions helps to re-lube the internals.
Try letting it run for a few minutes. Does that make it quieter?
Ken
For what it worth, I cannot get three car seats in the back of our Forester S.
That may have been it. I went out today and sprayed some silicone on the shaft and bushing. It's quiet again. If I hear it again I'll lube it up again. The motor is working fine. It was just that annoying squeak I wanted to get rid of.
Update on the CEL: It hasn't come back on. Maybe the seal on the gas cap is wearing. I always turn it several clicks to make sure it's tight. Maybe four years of that has worn the seal.
I'd like to know about a seven passenger Subaru. Is it supposed to be a bigger Forester? We're thinking our next vehicle might be a 4Runner but if Subaru comes out with a bigger SUV, we will definitely give it a look. We were always Toyota/Honda people, until we bought our Subaru. We feel Honda has dropped a notch. Based on our experience with our Forester, it's Subaru and Toyota now.
About a week ago (after leaving the dealer) I topped off the tank with just over 6 gallons of BP 89 octane. Although the knock/pinging was still present, I did notice that it was not as loud as previously. Gas mileage for this tankfull increased to 23.1 mpg althought half of the miles were strictly highway miles running at 70 - 75 mph.
Over the weekend, the wife and I went on a 300+ mile trip. I took the opportunity to run the tank down and filled up with 13.2 gallons of Shell 87 octane. The result was no pinging and no rotten egg smell.
I am encouraged with these early results. I'll continue to monitor the mileage over the next few tankfulls now that we are back to our normal driving pattern (mostly city). I'll give another update after a few fillups.
Ron
Go ahead and use lithium grease (but not WD40).
donadio: I don't see a link between the oil leak and the tranny (?), but I bet any engine oil leak is caused by the front main seals. Go ahead and change the timing belt while you're at it, they are in the same place and the labor is paid for.
If it's leaking gear oil, that's a different story. I have heard of cases where local Jiffy Lubes drained the tranny gear oil instead of the engine oil, since both drain plugs are at the bottom, and the engine oil plug is sort of behind that plastic cover. You sure that oil place didn't screw up?
We all anxiously await Subaru's 7 seater. Until a couple of months ago, it was going to go on a GM platform. Plans changed, now it'll be Subaru exclusive (whew!). But at this point it's all speculation, since it'll be based on the next Outback chassis, probably extended a few inches.
Ron: glad to hear it, thanks for keeping us posted.
-juice
Yuki sits in my parents' garage -- it was quite a trick getting them to do that. I'll be picking her up in a few weeks (I flew back to NM). My wife and I are quitting NM to move back to FL. We will revel once more in the glories of North-central Florida: green and shady; sweating in the Swamp watching Gator football (though that is not so glorious at the moment), and the outdoor life on the oak-shaded and pine-scented trails (look out Apalachicola, White Springs, Paynes Pairie, Ocala,Withlacoochee, Croom, Gran Canyon, Balm-Boyette, Morris Bridge Road, Myakka, etc, etc.)
And hey - you've just doubled the Subaru population in Florida! LOL
Actually, Subaru's market share in the sun belt is just 0.4%, compared to 6% in snowy Vermont!
-juice
So, from Tampa to Cocoa -- you've seen the dark secret of Florida then (pronounced FLOR'da, by the way; that's the rural, native way of saying it), that Florida is farms and cattle between the suburban coastal margins. Pick-ups, cowboy boots, and wide open spaces.
And yes, Florida is a good place to speed. I used to travel between Naples and G'ville on a regular basis (every two weeks like clock-work) and I did it at a high rate of speed. All it took was a steady hand, a keen eye, and a song in my heart. No tickets, hardly a close call.
Speaking of danger, keep your head down, Juice.
-juice (ducking and walking diagonally in DC)
But Flor'da for me is flat out, flat boring. And humidity and bugs and jumping frogs sticking to your windows and swampy things rebelling at being paved over.
33.5 m.p.g.: Is that the new record here on this board? Could only happen in flat Flor'da.....
You bet - Subarus are not chick magnets. Mind you, from the perspective of 44 and a long time happily married, this seems like a good idea.
My wife reminds me that I first took her out in a 1974 Mitsubishi Galant Station Wagon. The fact that it was lime green/yellow with non adjustable tombstone backed, front seats, has stuck in her memory. She swears that it was an awful car, although I was rather fond of it (it had four wheels and ran most of the time so met the essential pre-requisites for student transport).
However, the key point about the Galant was that my dog was happy in it. She even approved of Judy by climbing on to her lap - a rare occurrence. One other girlfriend went by the way-side when the dog climbed over the front seat, over the back seat and sat in the luggage area, studiously looking out the rear window. The dog had taste.
Judy has just wandered by and pointed out that, for her part, she never went out with any bloke with a chick magnet, considering them offensive. Maybe they are selectively magnetic. If so, I guess I've been lucky.
Cheers
Graham
I've only been there once in '98 Drove down in my Rodeo. The roads were great smooth and flat, but boring as all get-up. I did however make it from FLL to Tampa and back in 8.5hrs. The weather was way way too hot and humid for me even in January.
-mike
*If* you like the ocean, boating, water sports (no, not that kind), these areas are now very nice, and do not at all fit the stereotype of Florida as one big old folks home. Hot, yes, but that they be more from the influx of gorgeous women, latin and otherwise.
Of course, we can't vote and the roads are boring.
The dog had taste... LOL!
Florida is fun, just get out of Disney La La Land once in a while. We over-dosed on Orlando, that's why we ended up driving to Cocoa Beach - twice!
But Tampa is fun, what's it called, Ybor City, something like that? Key Biscane, lots of interesting places if you get away from the tourist traps.
-juice
Hot and humid, oh, yes! Boring? Boring is in the eye of the beholder: flat straight roads, yes. But if you know where you're going -- lots of places to get lost on purpose. And fishing, hunting, sand roads, hills in the interier. Dark forests. Wide prairies. The perfect little small towns, like those mentioned -- or Lakeland, an exquisite little college town; or Leesburg, a postcard quality downtown where there's music playing on hidden speakers. There's the Old South, and modern chrome and glass cities. And there is a great mix of cultures - grits and cornbread, hot sauce and deviled crabs, a Latin tradition going back more than a hundred years.
And a great place to own a Subaru: those sand roads, those back roads to lakes and winding black-water rivers, to forests and sinkholes. And blinding rain in the summer -- crack of doom storms that turn the horizon black, with white storm-birds circling before them.
Anyway. FLOR'da, my old new home. When I was a kid, I went to sleep listening to the frogs screaming and the cars speeding to and from the beach bars.
We've done FLor'da. Anyone here up to composing an ode to New Jersey as a Forester state? Or any other home territory?
Vermont wins in terms of market share: 6% are Subies. Average is 1.1% nationwide, just 0.4% in the sun belt.
Other big states are Montana and Alaska (5%), and then a bunch of states with 4%, including Colorado.
-juice
Conversely, the worst tank I've gotten was 21mpg -- it always happens after an ECU reset.
Ken
Your percentages are for Subies in general, are there any stats for Foresters in particular, per state or region?
If anything, I would expect the numbers to swell even more towards the snow belt and northeastern states, because the WRX is popular in SoCal and Florida due to its performance.
-juice
How can anyone live without fall colors, the smell and warmth of a wood stove,ice on the cove, a fresh snowfall under a full moon, sailing under a reef in Penobscot Bay ? .......The poetry goes on and on.
And, don't tell anyone .
Bless us.
Don
And in the place of nativity, Tampa Bay, well...how can you live a good life if you haven't run your boat up river before dawn when the temperature drops below freezing and fish for snook? The bitter wind in your face, the outboard screaming...the fire on the river strand to warm your hands...the satisfying plunk! of the jig hitting the glass smooth water, working it, working it, working it...and the strike! Man, feel it pull, fighting, fighting, fighting...and you see the dull flash of the fish in the dark water...and you get it closer...and you pull it up to the sand and you put you hand on it, cold as ice and so alive, silver muscle and that bright eye... Or stalking the canal banks and throwing a castnet over a bunch of tilopia -- I got about thirty pounds in one throw once.
And picking Brazilian holly at Christmas. And playing football at the Christmas picnic. Sitting with Uncle Bill -- everyone has an Uncle Bill, don't they? listening to the snook fishing secrets, the sure-fire places and baits. How about water sking in December? Just don't fall...and the hypothermia fades as you dry out and the sun warms you.
Steve, Host
There are a lot of Subarus here in NJ. Methuselah, my neighbor across the street, drives an early 90's Legacy wagon, and he's been driving it for years. Lots of Subarus in Hoboken, especially Outbacks and Legacy's.
I wonder if Tony Soprano secretly wishes for a Forester, instead of his Suburban?
Bob
-mike
PS: We kept freaking out the luxury car people @ the last NY Auto Show cause Hypov and I kept throwing Tree Killa into the trunk of them and asking "How many do you think we can fit in there" the reps loved that!
Steve
Uncle Bill? Let's see, that's William, Guilherme in Portuguese. Yes, I have one, guess everyone indeed does have an Uncle Bill.
The whole NE was over-represented in the break down per state that I saw, all 2-5%. MN was up there too.
I wish I had saved the link now. It seems to make everyone curious.
-juice
Steve, Host
-juice
My Uncle Bill, my Godfather, passed away in Vero Beach, Florida, this past September.
Uncle Bills, Daves owning Foresters; you have hit on something.
Steve