Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

ateixeira · December 2002

Hmm, not snows?

It's great to have tires for different purposes, but I'm not sure my wife would even understand the concept.

-juice

lark6 · December 2002

Mine doesn't, so I don't try to explain.

My likelihood of heavy snows is only slightly greater than yours, juice. I'd have to live up in the Poconos before I'd consider dedicated snow tires. I also figure that it'll be easier to deal with if I forget or get too busy to switch back in the spring or if I trade the car before they wear out.

Ed

ateixeira · December 2002

Cool. You could make the other set a summer tire, and this one an all-season setup.

-juice

lfdal · December 2002

This is a question for the mechanically inclined folks out there with experience on the 2.5l engine. Does anyone have an opinion on what happens when the crankcase gets 5qts instead of the recommended 4.2? My dealership can't seem to find the "F" mark on the stick. This is the second oil change they've done, and I took it back after the first one to have them drain out the extra. Should I repeat the experience? In a perfect world I'd try another dealer, but easier said than done. Also, if I do my own mainetance, does anyone know what Subaru will consider adequate proof I actually did the work myself? The only reason I take it to the dealer is so there's no question about the maintenance having been done.
Any info appreciated.
Thanks
Larry

kens · December 2002

Larry,

Overfilling the crankcase is a big no-no. Not only do you run the risk of the oil spilling out from the filling spout from thermal expansion, you also develop foam in the oil from the rotation of the crank.

I'd seriously question the ability of the dealer if they can't find the "F" mark on the dipstick. Plus, if you know the capacity is 4.2qts, why would you put in anything more than that amount?

Oil changes on the Forester are easy. Just keep a record of receipts for oil and oil filters, keep a log book of when you changed the oil and you should be okay.

Ken

joseph50 · December 2002

Larry's concern triggers a memory of some post two years ago when I got my new Forester. The person said that the proper amount was added for an oil change, and for the first week or so the reading was way above the "Full". (I remember because I noticed that also.) After some driving and the oil darkened from clear, the reading became what is to be expected. That concern was passed of as both normal for, and peculiar to, this vehicle. Maybe I am remembering incorrectly? (I really haven't checked up on this since, as the car just purrs along with no problem.)
Did Larry's dealership guys put in 5 quarts for sure in the first place?

originalbitman · December 2002

I had it happen at a dealer also. That was the last time I had a dealer do an oil change. As Ken said it is an easy DIY project and well worth the effort for piece of mind.

bit

kens · December 2002

Did you read the oil when the engine was cold or warm? The "F" mark is for cold readings. There should be a notch or hole in the dipstick for reading the oil when the engine is warm.

Ken

kullenberg · December 2002

I stopped by the Subaru dealer yesterday, and had a look at the 2003 Forester. I had always felt that I would get a VDC Outback, when I was ready for a new vehicle; what a surprise the Forester was. There is a tremendous amount of content there for the price. I didn't drive it - too soon, but I can't imagine it's much different than the 4 cyl Outback. It may well fit my needs very well. Much easier to get in and out of, than the Outback. All it needs now, is more power; maybe the H6, or a turbo?
Cheers
Pat

lfdal · December 2002

Thanks for the replies folks. Actually, I did an oil change myself at the 2k mark. Partly because when I looked at the filter I saw some oil drops on the bottom, (looked as though the filter had been over-torqued as I had to brace both feet against the driver's tire and pull really hard with a filter wrench to get the old filter off) and partly because I wanted to see what would happen when exactly 4.2qts was added. Surprisingly enough, 4.2 qts puts the level exactly where it should be. BTW, I did check the level with the oil cold. Very cold - after setting overnight and about 20 degrees F ambient. Oil is easily over an inch above the F mark. I emailed the same question to Subaru, but they haven't got back to me yet :<(. The lack of a garage and crawling around outside in the winter is my favorite reason for not doing my own oil changes at this time of the year. Time to break out the woolies and go for it.
Does any one have a favorite oil filter brand? I'll probably stick with the Castrol GTX oil, and have always been partial to Fram filters. I really like Hastings filters, but they're hard to find sometimes. The selfsame dealer also told me that any filter besides Subaru's runs the risk of voiding the warranty. I know Purolator makes the Subaru filter (the one I took off had Subaru, English, Japanese and Purolator on it). I ran that comment past the folks at Fram and they were really, really unhappy that a dealer would say that about their filters. They suggested I might want to file a complaint with the FTC.... but that's more pain than I want to get into right now. Sorry for the long, windy comment. I've some more questions but I'll save them for later. Thanks everyone.
Larry

burnsmr4 · December 2002

I took my Subaru in for the 11,250 oil change, and I brought my own synthetic oil for the dealership to use (no lifts, and no permission to change my own oil at my apartment -- don't pick on me). I asked them if they'd use just 4qts and I'd top it off after they finished. They insisted on using most or all of the 5th quart. Sure enough -- got the car back and, out of the 6qts of synthetic I left for 'em in the front seat, all but the 6th quart had been used.

Since I was making the regular to synthetic switch, were they using most of the 5th quart to flush out the old stuff or what? I had the same experience as ifdal with them insisting on 5qts.

Thanks,
burnsmr4

lspiva · December 2002

Larry,

I have 03 Forester XS. The first oil change (1.8K miles) I performed with a "Fram Tough" oil filter and Penzoil syntetic oil (10W30). 4 months/3K miles later oil is clean as the day I change it. The next oil change, I will do on Christmas Eve with a same oil filter and Mobil 1 syntetic oil (as folks over here recommended). My car parked outside and in a cold mornings it has a smooth start compare to the "old" original factory filed oil. Leo

nygreg · December 2002

The car needs to be "very" level or it will throw off your reading. My OB gets 4.2 quarts, I warm it up, let it cool and check it. Bingo, right on the F mark. This is done in my garage (level). Also, you can order Subaru filters (Purolator) online for $4 each if you buy a case. $4.40 each if less. Therefore, no need to go to another brand and it takes away any warranty questions. BTW, I use Mobil 1 5w-30, but, will probably switch to 10w-30 next go around.

Greg

nygreg · December 2002

is Havoline. That's what my dealer used also.

Greg

oregonboy · December 2002

I'm sure that a garage floor is level enough for oil checking purposes, but generally they are sloped an inch or so towards the door. That way they will have less standing water if you hose them out (or if if rains during construction, prior to enclosing the garage).

Picky, picky, picky.

-James

nygreg · December 2002

kens · December 2002

I've avoided Fram filters based on the results of the following study:

http://minimopar.net/oilfilters.html

I usually use OE Subaru filters or just get the equivalent Purolator filter.

Castrol GTX is supposed to be very good among commercialy available dino-oil. I'd use it if I were sticking to dino. However, I currently use Mobil 1 synthetic.

I don't know why the dealer would use up 5 quarts. Did you ask them? When I am feeling a little rushed for time, I do sometimes add a little oil while the drain plug is undone to help flush out the last little bit.

Ken

nygreg · December 2002

Friend of mine (Audi, VW guy) loves Castrol Syntec. He drives his cars hard and never had a problem.

Greg

kajko · December 2002

as to the question of warranty of serviceable parts, i thought about this when puting in the K&N Filter.

From K&N website:
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, passed in 1975, prohibits a manufacturer from conditioning its warranty of a consumer product upon the consumer using any article or service (other than one provided without charge under the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name, unless expressly authorized by the Federal Trade Commission.

So Larry, unless your dealer gives the filter to you for free... for sure you could go to FTC, which is why the Fram folks suggested it. That law is tricky though, because if the warranty is bumper-to-bumper then technically, Subaru could void the warranty for using wrong wiper-blades.
i admit i haven't read the fine print of the Forester's warranty to see how it deals with serviceable parts.

kens · December 2002

Castrol Syntec offers a good balance between price and performance. One thing to keep in mind is that it's not a "true" synthetic. Syntec is manufactured by refining dino oil. I don't think it makes a difference in our engines, however.

http://www.z28.com/amsoil/important_articles/castrol_mobil_pao.html

Around where I live, Mobil 1 and Syntec are the same price so I just get the pure synthetic stuff.

Ken

texan5 · December 2002

perhaps you should try a different oil brand than pensoil. The fact that your oil is of the same color than brand new indicates that the oil did not do what it was supposed to do -- clean the engine and keep the byproducts of combustion process in suspension. If those are not in your oil then they must be on the walls of your engine block...

texan5

ann365 · December 2002

recently drove my 3-month old xs for the first time at night on the highway, found the low beam set to reveal only approx.50M[150ft.] ahead. does this concur with others experience ?. at 100kmh[60mph]i found this insufficient. high beam not a problem. ann 365

ateixeira · December 2002

I've re-aimed mine so many times that I can't say what the factory setting was. You just don't want it aiming up (above level).

For the oil, the boxer is actually less sensitive than most in-line or vee configurations to overfilled crankcase oil. Don't worry about them using 5 quarts, though 6 would have me concerned.

FWIW, I end up using about 4.5 quarts to get mine full.

Pat: lots of us are anxiously awaiting a new turbo Forester, probably in June? Hopefully a 2.5l light-pressure turbo with about 200hp, as some rumors suggest.

-juice

crashton6 · December 2002

Juice I need to aim my headlights. When I shine my lights on my garage door the left side is higher than the right by a couple of inches. The lights light the road well as is, but I do get a fair share of others flashing their brights at me. Left to right aim seems fine. I looked & can see one adjuster screw on the right side of the headlight when viewed from the top. Looks to me like the horizontal adjuster. For the life of me I can't find the vertical adjuster. Can you help me?

Thanks

Crashton

qbrozen · December 2002

Ugh. Why is it when I buy a car based purely on its reputation for reliability, I have strange problems that I've never had with any other car?

Anyway, that aside, was hoping someone might have a little experience with this problem and narrow it down for me:

Our '98 Forester is acting a bit funky lately. After its fully warmed up, I'll come to a full stop at a light and, when I step on the gas again, it stumbles and tries to stall before catching up with itself and surging forward. I've managed to get the car to do it at will now. I sat in the driveway yesterday after getting back from running around and I held my foot on the brake, kept it in drive, and gave it the slightest bit of gas. It sat there running extremely rough (seems to be right around 800 rpms or so - any more or less and its fine).

So, any thoughts?

Oh, and there was one day when my wife said it wouldn't start, but, after that day, I have been using it every day while she takes my car and I have yet to have a starting issue in the last 2 weeks.

So far I've replaced the fuel filter and that didn't help.

mckeown · December 2002

Rob, sight unseen, unheard AND untouched, my first suggestion is to get an OBDII tool attached and monitor the Mass Air Flow Sensor, Throttle position sensor, Temp sensor and especially the Front O2 sensor. From you description, it can be any of these or even a malfunctioning fuel injector. My gut, and experience, would be the front O2 sensor. I suspect it's become slow to respond to change. All the above will also affect gas mileage. A post long ago on another forum also pointed to the Knock Sensor falsely sensing a knock and retarding the timing to compensate. I hear Autozone will read your OBDII error codes for FREE. Maybe you have a "stored" one or one that does not set the Check Engine Light.....My 2 Cents......

subearu · December 2002

Years ago, my '89 Grand Prix did that to me. I was able to duplicate it to the service techs the same as you described by doing a brake/gas thing. Prior to that, they were not able to diagnose anything since it never triggered a code (pre-obdii I believe). But, with my 'proof' it was determined that the EGR valve was faulty. Back then it was a vacuum operated type, I suspect they're electronically controlled at least somewhat now. Perhaps this is the culprit for your 'ster?

I also wondered if maybe you have some blockage in the fuel injectors or perhaps something other than fuel is in the tank (water?). Some injector cleaner (I use Techron) may help, but it could be as simple as replacing a dirty fuel filter too.

-Brian

rochcom · December 2002

I posted this first item on the maintenance board, but there was no reply -- so:

Has anyone had trouble with the Forester Clock (the old style with the flourescent display)? Mine is getting intermittently dimmer. I could replace it with a time/temperature module I have on hand, but I want to keep things stock because I would like to sell next year and buy a turbo. If anyone has any ideas on what the problem is, it would be appreciated.

Has anyone replaced the Forester brake pads with aftermarket pads? If so, what did you use and how well have they performed and held up? Mine are about 70% worn at 71,000 miles, so I will need replacements soon because of anticipated high mileage accumulation in the next few months.

Headlights: My headlights were aimed very low upon delivery. I reajusted them upwards. US cars are often adjusted so that the center of the low beam hits the ground about 75 feet in front of the car. This is less than one second of driving time at 60 mph/100Kph. Because the orginal Forester has a very sharp upper beam cutoff, the lights can be aimed quite a bit further out without blinding others. The foglights were aimed into the ground, and the dealer re-aimed them during the adjustment period. They are still not very useful, however. Now if we could just get the drivers of most cars with foglights to keep them switched OFF when there is no fog so we don't get blinded by them...

qbrozen · December 2002

I thought about all those things (especially the O2 sensor), mckeown, but shouldn't a bad sensor or a problem with the MAF throw up a CEL? I thought so, which is why I dismissed it. Can you have a code and not a CEL? I didn't know that was possible either.

subearu - fuel was my initial thought, which is why I replaced the filter. Bad gas shouldn't be the problem at this point since we have been through probably 4 or 5 tanks since this problem first surfaced. Plus, I always use injector cleaner with every oil change. A vacuum problem is a definite possibility and one my father suggested I check out. I've just never been good at tracking down vacuum problems.

qbrozen · December 2002

When our Forester needed brakes, I decided to take advantage of Midas's lifetime replacement deal. I priced out just the materials to do the job myself and then found out I could let Midas do all the work for about $20 more than just buying the parts myself (had a coupon). Plus, like I said, its covered for life of the vehicle (well, sort of - more like a discount program me thinks). Anyway, the brakes work fine aside from the first several thousand miles of squeaking. We've put on about 20K miles on them and they still look new.

lakepop · December 2002

qbrozen.....given the symptoms you provided I'm going with
1. MAF sensor
2. throttle position sensor
3. vacuum leak

Now why no CEL...??

Other possible causes ...idle speed control....coolent temp sensor ....EGR(cause of many difficult to solve problems)

FWIW...had a similar problem on a Chevy V8 TPI...the stalling led me to the TPS which was incorrectly set. Setting it to the correct values cleared the problem.

lfdal · December 2002

Anyone out there have a favorite site for ordering "Genuine" Subaru filters and parts? I also need a new pan bolt. The dealer "fixed" mine at the last oil change. Probably when he was torquing it to 200 ft-lbs. I can still get a wrench on it, but it's never going to see a socket again. I thought for sure I was going to pull the car off the jackstands getting that bolt off.

Also, on a totally unrelated subject, has anyone tried the Subaru pet grate for a 03 Forester with a sunroof? I need something but the $134+ non-refundable accessory price tag from the dealer is a little daunting if I don't like it.

Thanks
Larry

mrluther · December 2002

Happy holidays to all!! I just thought I would pass on some info as my 02 reaches the 20k mark..
1. This is still the worst clutch I have ever had, it still shudders like a [non-permissible content removed] when it is damp out and the car is first run in the morning.
2. Has anyone else noticed how easily the body panels dent on this car..ouch!!
3.Thinking of replacing tires and sway bars soon..any info from you guys would be great.
4. I dont know if you all have ever played the ps2 game called gran turismo 3 but it is the best racing sim I have ever seen, there are 8 subarus in the game that you can buy and mod. I got the wrx japan sti model and have modded it up to 485hp and it is so fun driving it in this game. Check it out!!!
Have a safe holiday everyone!!!! Mike in CT.

crashton6 · December 2002

Larry - I've been buying my subaru parts from Liberty Subaru 1-888-SUBY-4WD. They have good prices & provide good service. If your dealer chewed up your drain plug I would ask them to give you another. Their screw up after all. As far as oil filters go Subaru uses a Purolator
filter. You can buy those at most parts stores.
I use the Purolator PureOne filter. It is supposed to be Purolator's premium filter.

Chuck

tidester · December 2002

US cars are often adjusted so that the center of the low beam hits the ground about 75 feet in front of the car. This is less than one second of driving time at 60 mph/100Kph.

That would be a problem only if the beams had no spread. The traditional aiming of headlamps is more or less optimal for both distance viewing and close up as well as being considerate of oncoming traffic. Keeping your headlamp lenses clean will resolve most issues.

tidester, host

mckeown · December 2002

Rob, My '02 Did NOT light the CEL for a recent O2 sensor replaced under warrenty. Also my 1990 Legacy (Albeit not OBDII) didn't light the check engine for a Mass Air Flow Sensor either. There are ranges these sensors are allowed to stay within. Each for different engine loads and speeds. So a sensor could be within it's allowable range but not perform properly for good drivability.
Mike,(mrluther), I replaced the factory 13mm rear sway bar initially with a 17mm since I carry quite a few heavy loads from time to time. I have sinced again replaced it with a 20mm and now I'm satisified with that. I know it's not allowed to "sell" on Edmunds but I still have the 17mm.

qbrozen · December 2002

mckeown... that's the kind of info I was looking for. So I'm thinking O2 sensor now. It was one of my first inclinations, but the lack of a CEL really threw me. How much is a new sensor, folks? At 90K miles, it might be worth it to replace it if it fixes the problem or not.

lakepop - FYI, there is no idle adjustment on these. All computer controlled these days. Really frustrating for those of us who learned on non-computer controlled cars ... but a fact of life nonetheless.

lakepop · December 2002

qbrozen.... OK my bad! I was using my troubleshooting guide and went a little brain dead . Let us know the resolution ...I hope it is the 02 sensor cause its an easy fix! Keep in mind that the 02 sensor is not used in "open loop"
.

rochcom · December 2002

I would agree with you, Tidester, that the aim is OK for some cars, but some have beam patterns that make for very unsafe driving. A relative has a large '94 Chrysler that has always had a real visibility problem. He had not been able to get a good headlight pattern since he bought it, in spite of numererous attempts by the dealer, himself and others. I drove it in the rural area where he lives, an area where deer line the sides of the road at night, and it was truly frightening. He finally went out and got auxillary lights to avoid having an accident.

Old sealed beam lights had the pattern determined by the built-in reflectors and lenses. Now, each car manuafacturer has its own design that is often developed more for cosmetic purposes than performance. This can lead to problems. I have driven many types of cars, and there are very few that, IMHO are safe to drive with low beams at 65 to 70 mph when the headlights are aimed to factory specs.

The sharp upper beam cutoff on Subarus and many European cars allows the lights to be aimed further out without blinding oncoming drivers. That upper cutoff limits scatter in the forward direction, except to the extreme right where it is set up to illuminate road signs.

subkid · December 2002

Hi,

I'd like to hear other people's experiences with sleeping in the car. I'm talking about two adults with some gear around. Can you get reasonable night of sleep? What's better: making bed of the front part of the vehicle or getting back with leveled rear seats?

Basically, what I have in mind are those nights in the mountains when it suddenly drops below freezing mark or bear make the appearance around the camp site (and that's quite common where we usually go).

And, I don't mean to start a war here but how good Forester really is off road. Not climbing a rocks, but taking us places where we start hiking or canoeing, forest roads and stuff.

Thks,

kid

kajko · December 2002

subkid - sleeping in the Forester is better than my wife and i first thought. we followed some suggestions posted here earlier and folded the back seats, took out the headrests from the front seats and made them flat as well. we put our heads where the front seats meet the back seats, with our feet touching the rear door. we filled the front seats with our stuff. you can actually have a good night sleep when slightly diagonal.

as far as "offroad" (IMHO offroad=no previous tracks, i.e. a desert wash), i'd say a stock forester will get you to most places where there is a reasonably non-rocky two track road. i'd shy away from deep mud ruts and hardcore desert driving (boulders, etc.) as well as places where you need to crawl (oh, the low gearing we miss!). for peace of mind, i'd put some protection in place of the plastic under the engine and a diffy protector. also, it wouldn't hurt to do something to the gas tank.
finally, how "good" the forester is off asphalt will depend on your driving skills and risks you are willing to take. check out Subaclub for ideas.

i know, long post, can you tell i'm on vacation?
;-P

xccoachlou · December 2002

Just remember to take someone along who runs slower than you do and is heavier, ("gordurinho"), so you don't have to outrun the bear, just your "friend". lol

Lou, Once and Future Bear Bait

subkid · December 2002

xccoachlou:
didn't I mention it's for me and my wife

)) And it's good for me she's there because otherwise I usually put a brave face and try to ignore the beast. Results, so far so good, but that's a reason smart women are brought to our lives: not to push our lucks for too long

)

Cheers,

kid

rsay777 · December 2002

The back is definitely the way to go for me. The back is a bit short but on the diag will allow some comfortability. The front seats will accommodate small cargo but large stuff like coolers will have to be outside. Not a bad way to go in a pinch. Bob L

entropy5527 · December 2002

I have also had the problem with the Forester falling on it's face when excellerating. I had this twice, total repair bill over $900. The cause--- the quick lube place never got the cover to the air filter back on correctly. The third time it happened I cleaned the sensor with Everclear. Pure GRAIN alcohol. If you try this DO NOT USE ISOPROPYL (Rubbing) Alcohol, as it leaves a residue behind.

I also have the clock problem. I actually just ordered a new one as a replacement.. Cost $47 with shipping. Sounds like a bad design of clock if others are having the same issue.

I also have a gear shift on my 1998 Forester that is squeaking and rattling. not sure what to replace on that one? Anyone seen that before.

Even with the issues, I have had 182,000 pure driving fun miles...

rsay777 · December 2002

Over many years of driving I have come to the realization that it is better to have the dealer do the oil/filter change or do it yourself.

Myself or someone I've known have had:

drain plug loose
oil cap missing or loose
tire presure wrong
oil/grease smugged on carpet or seats
screws lost from air filter housing (lube place would not replace)
bent dipstick
wiper blades installed wrong
oil splashed in engine compartment
deaf ears @ customer service dept.

Bob L.

nygreg · December 2002

Two guys are camping. Along comes a bear and the two guys panic and start to run. The bear begins to chase them. All of a sudden one of the guys stops, drops to the floor and starts putting on his sneakers. The second guy asks what he is doing, since he can't out run the bear anyway. The first guy responds "I don't need to out run the bear, I just need to out run you".

I know, it's bad.

Greg

mjsnd80 · December 2002

That's a good idea!

An annoying thing about those places (I used to do it 15+ years ago) is that they charge the nineteen bucks - then try to upsell you with more fluids, new air cleaner, windshield washer fluid at $3.00 a pint, PCV valves, etc... that your car may (or probably doesn't) need.

But the worst thing about them is their speed! When motor oil drains out of your engine, the last bit to drip, drip, drip is the slowest-moving crud-filled sludge. At a Quik Lube, the stream hardly slows down, and they've got the drain plug hammered back in and they're filling up the oil again to get you out and the next sucker in!

Great advice I got years ago was to change the oil myself, and let it drain for hours. Overnight is fine too. You get the worst of the crud out of the engine; and save the bother of salespeople trying to nickel-and-dime a $20 service stop into a $50 service stop.

= = =

I've got someone on the hook for my car; then I get the Forester XS, five-speed. Yippee!!

kens · December 2002

My biggest beefs with quick lube places is that:

1) They almost never use a crush washer on the drain plug and overtighten the bolt
2) They constantly try and upsell you with unecessary items

I've also noticed that places like Jiffy Lube often charge more if your vehicle is AWD/4x4. There's absolutely no reason why a Subaru should cost more than any other passenger car.

Stay away from quick lube shops. It's just a matter of time until they mess something up.

Ken

rochcom · December 2002

Thanks to qbrozen and entropy5527 for your reponses to them maintenance questions.

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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