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Comments
hmm, back on topic: I'll probably look at an XT to replace my Outback later this year or early next year. ;-)
-Brian
I can understand manufacturers wanting to make their cars easier and more convienent, but it's come to the point where they're trying to make everything idiot-proof. In my opinion, things shouldn't be idiot-proof, we need some way of weeding them out of the population. Anyway, that's my rant for the day, triggered by yet another clueless SUV driving soccermom on a cellphone.
I have never owned a car with power seats, but when I have rented or borrowed one, I have always found that the controls get away from me -- always overshooting where I want the seat to go. Besides, it is one more thing to break.
Jeff
I once spent an hour lying half in the car working under the dash, listening to an incessant "The door is a jar" while installing aftermarket fog lamps. I finally taped the door switch shut.
Ducktapeguy: Good point on reliability. Do that first, then add bells and whistles.
-brianV
I would pay plenty extra for manual roll-up windows.
To wit the notches in a manually adjusted seat cannot compare to the exact placement of the powered seat. The height and fore and aft tilt while maybe alright manually adjusted for some, will be much more comfortably adjusted with many more incremental positions in a powered seat.
I find your ease at name calling or labeling somewhat perplexing. Isn't use of an automobile by its very nature proof that you don't follow your own advice? Otherwise you'd be walking wherever you wished to go.
On a lighter side , while I rail on about usefulness of a powered seat, most of your other observations are appropriate.
Just my .03
Gene
True, maybe the power seats offer more adjustability, but I didn't think that a quarter of an inch would make that big of difference in driving comfort, you'd have to have a pretty sensitive bottom to notice. Even then, I'm sure they could easily figure out a way to offer infintely adjustable manual seats.
Love all the nice things in my SVX and Trooper. Both have power everything including auto-climate
-mike
If Subaru did make an infinitely adjustable manual seat then fine but until that day comes Subaru turn on the power!!
I don't think all those power options you refer to make driving easier. To the contrary they distract from the true driving experience and make dealing with them harder. Look at the cell phone problems.
A good bumper sticker... Hang up and drive!!
Gene
You asked, here it is.
http://cartalk.cars.com/About/Drive-Now/bumper-sticker.html
I drive a '98 Olds Intrigue which also has climate control. I set the temperature and turn it on auto and forget about it. It keeps me warm in the winter and cool in the summer. The only time I change it is to put the defroster on if the windshield is frosted over in the morning.
Not sure why Subaru has trouble with climate control
-mike
My biggest grips is that the system always seems to be doing something. In my WRX, I can set the fan, temp, and mode once, and drive around for days without an issue. Don't even think about it. In contrast, the auto systems always seem to be in my face, demanding some sort of correction.
Craig
Now if you could just figure out why we can't get more than 22 MPG! And it is broken in now with 65000 miles. Other than that we love the little beast.
windy
-mike
Jim
Well if you're serious just bring your check book and I'll sell you my 1971 VW bus. Oh, and the new engine istallation is almost finished! It'll be ready for camping season in a few days.
Paul
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33- 0184
Bob
da da da daaa da, da da da daaa da.....
-Brian
LOL
Gene
The choices would be:
Impezza WRX wagon,
outback wagon,
forester xs or xt.
What is the 0-60 time for 165 hp 5sp Forester?
Are their any Subaru Clubs iin Southern California?
Does any club do caravanning trips?
Thanks for any input.
Forester 2.5XT.
<< What is the 0-60 time for 165 hp 5sp Forester? >>
9–10 second range.
<< Are their any Subaru Clubs iin Southern California? >>
Check www.nasioc.com or www.i-club.com. They both have chapters across the USA. You can post questions on their web sites.
<< Does any club do caravanning trips? >>
Possibly, but I don't know for sure. Again, check with nasioc or the I-Club.
Bob
Have you taken a Forester on a long trip?
My guess an Outback H-6 would be even more comfortable, but not as good off-road as the Forester (worse angle of approach and departure).
Bob
The car is a great hauler, I buy and rehab houses and I can put lots of stuff in the back and on the roof and it's actually better at this than our Jeep Cherokees were.
Good luck on your search.
Everything went well and the car was comfortable enough for long drives. The heated seats were nice for the cool Appalachian mornings and evenings as well.
Ed
Len
Do any of you find the 165 hp model to have sufficient power for hills, passing merging etc?
Ron
I own a 98 Forester S (5-speed) and I find it has sufficient power for everything you've listed. One of the reasons why I purchased the Forester was that it was really the only mini-ute that had decent power at the time. Even at altitude (5000-6000 ft) the Forester does well with cargo and passengers.
Remember that it's really torque that matters for acceleration and the Forester has very good low-mid range torque of 166 ft-lbs.
I've taken my Forester on 500-1000 mile road trips and I find it very pleasurable to drive. I find the seats comfortable and the ride nicely soaks up any expansion joints. It's really a great all-around vehicle.
Ken
Bob
Ron, my wife and i recently (nov02) purchased the Forester X. so far, we took it on a week-long trip through NM and AZ, and plenty of weekend and 3-day drives around northern NM. next month we are doing a 10 day trip through southern AZ, San Diego and then back to NM through Grand Canyon. it´s nimble and plenty of power at high altitudes (most of northern NM is above 6000ft). as far as cargo hauling, on the week-long trip we used a Yakima 11 cu ft box for all the camping gear. no reason it wouldn´t fit inside but we liked the convenience of having room to sleep in the back.
as to your other choices, my boss has a WRX and loves it, but would like to have more room in the back for stuff on trips, also he is limited to very "nice" gravel roads. another professor i know likes his Outback because of more room to sleep in the back, but it does suffer on rough roads because of overhang and larger wheelbase. also keep in mind that the H4 is the same engine as the Forester but the car is much heavier.
don´t know about caravanning clubs in so CA, but ducktapeguy should know. we´ll try exploring parts of Anza Borrego State Park on our trip. That is a great place!
cheers, tom
I agree that the folks at Dodge keep adding gadgetry instead of improving a transmission that fails more often than not at about 80k. Funny how the warranty is 70k now, it's like they plan it that way!
My dad had a talking car, a 1986 Mercury Cougar. It was amusing the first time, then annoying after that.
I feel the opposite way that Len does. The Forester is a better city car, easier to manuever in tight spots, easier to park, and more fun to point-and-squirt.
But IMO our Legacy is a better highway car for trips. Longer wheelbase, smoother ride, and bigger gas tank means more range. The back seat is roomier if they're not kids back there.
But still, we've taken the Forester up to CT a couple of times, about 7 hours driving each way, and it was fine.
-juice
John
Len (also from NJ)
Power seats: go in the nice-to-have category (but if you have one, make it one with memory).
Mileage: I've always gotten better than the EPA estimates but then I drive pretty conservatively most of the time.
Life expectancy of the clutch: Too many variables to predict how long a clutch will last but the number one reason for failure is driver abuse. With a used car, there's no telling how it was driven so when the clutch will fail is a big unknown.
Speed-sensitive stereo: Personally, I think it's a great invention. I always notice and appreciate it when I drive a GM vehicle (that and the radio automatically going off when you take the key out of the ignition are virtually the only things I appreciate about GM though).
Which Subaru to get: First off, you do realize that you're asking in a somewhat biased forum? In any case, I think it depends on what you value the most. The Outback offers the most people/cargo hauling capacity and is quieter and comes across as slightly more refined. The WRX has the least cargo space but the most oomph and the best handling. The Forester really is a compromise between the two extremes offering decent cargo hauling while retaining fairly sporty handling characteristics. (Hey, sounds like Goldilocks and the three bears!) And has been pointed out, the Forester is best suited of the three for venturing off-road. While the engine and acceleration really are adequate, I do at times, find myself having to downshift to maintain speed on steep mountain climbs but now, with the addition of a turbo, the XT should be approaching perfection as far as I'm concerned.
-Frank P.
Steve, Host
How are the springs, did you finish installing them? I wanna see some pictures! When are you gonna be going to AB? I might be there sometime next month also. If I see your car, I'll stick a piece of ducktape on the winshield so you'll know it's me. And if you see my car, leave a $20 under the wiper so I know you saw me.
Just so I'm not misunderstood, I'm not against progress. I like gadgets as much as the next guy, but when I see some of the useless crap coming from Ford or GM, I just wonder what the hell the engineers are thinking. They can spend all this time and money in making power running boards (like regular running boards on those SUV's weren't useless enough, now they're motorized), automatic fold down rear seats, and voice activated doors. But they still can't make a car that won't be recalled in the first year or one that last beyond warranty. I think the point of my rant (if it had a point) was to concentrate on the important items first, and then add all the useless gadgets. If it were Toyota, they've already proved they can make a decent car, so I'd say if they want to start making everything automated, then good for them.
Thanks for the info.
Is their enough room in the Forester for a 6 footer to sleep with the second row folded?
Now 3 other questions. It's time for the General tires to go! Any recommendations for a tire that's good in rain, we see 1 snow day every other year but lots of "frog drowning rains", we don't off-road, just use it as an around town car. If we take the dog we make road trips so something quiet running is good.
What mileage are most of you replacing timing belts? We're at 62,000 now and my experience most TBs last 90K or more. Is the Subie a non-interference motor like my Miata? or should I just suck it up pay the ?? hundred dollars and do it soon?
Gas consumption has been the only weak point of our Subie. We got rid of a 93 Jeep Chickoree with a 4.0L High Output and it got as good mileage as the Forester! About 20 in town, but only 21-22 Highway. It doesn't matter which of us drive, it stays the same. I cruise at 80 MPH, she cruises at 70 and it might make 1/2 MPG if one of us drives then entire tank. You would think that the RPM dropping from 3000-3100 @80 to 25-2600 at 70 might make some difference.
I appreciate all the help I've gotten on this site.
windy6
my dome light is set in the middle position &
does come on when the doors are open but it is
behind that massive hole in the roof thus set back
to far to provide adequate lighting in the front, not to mention that a baby seat is presently located in the rear seat center position facing backwards (i know - that's my problem) which also limits the light waves from reaching the front of the vechicle to my satisfaction. just a personal gripe.
Tires: Most all season tires will do well for what you're looking for. Look for tires with a traction A or AA rating. Some tires that would fit your needs would be:
Dunlop SP Sport A2
Dunlop SP5000 (that's what I currently use)
Yokohama Avid H4
Timing belt: Recommended replacement is at 105K miles. I'd suggest doing it at 90K. Have the dealer do the accessory belts at the same time since they'll have the front cover off anyway. Also, inspect the water pump while they're in there too.
Gas: That does sound a bit on the low side, but not completely unusual. What tire pressures do you run?
Ken
Hey guys, check this out:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291908527&p=4235998858- - &idx=18
Need to haul lumber home? No problem. I had 4 plywood/OSB sheets on the roof, 4'x8', 3/8" thick each. Had another one cut up inside. The guy at Home Depot wrapped it with plastic wrap, but I'm sure tying it down would have worked just as well.
To be honest I didn't even feel the weight, although there was a lot of noise from the flapping of the plastic.
2004: try this, remove all the head rests. Fold the rear seats flat, then move the front seats forward and fold them back, flush with the 2nd row. Now put an inflatable bed over the whole area. You should be able to sleep there, easily. I fit four pieces of plywood, 12"x8' each, inside, hatch closed, with room to spare. So unless you're 9' tall you should fit. :-)
windy6: was that Cherokee a 4WD model? That's pretty good mileage for a 4.0l.
The timing belt is supposed to be inspected at 90k. I say just change it then while you have the labor paid for, even though it's designed to last 105k.
-juice
-Frank P.