Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Steve, Host
The maintenance schedule is there but, it won't provide costs.
Steve, Host
I will make this forum my new home. I had been hanging around the 4Runner and Pathfinder forums -had come close to purchasing a Pathfinder SE (dealers here in Miami were giving excellent pricing and financing at the time - unlike Toyota and even Honda), but after a reality check, the Pathy just doesn't hold good resale value and the fuel mileage is horrible. The 4Runner was just way too pricey (dealers not willing to come down on price), so I just went back to my original choice from early 2002, the CR-V. By the way, do you guys call your CR-V a truck?
in New York). I was quoted list price on a
new 03 CR-V Ex, but the salesman said that the
dealership was offering, through themselves,
0% financing for up to 5 years.
So, my questions are....
Is MSRP the norm?
And, if so, how can they afford to absorb the 0%?
Like the vehicle.
Steve
In any case, I have a favorite dealer that offers a free loaner vehicle if you need one, and is friendly and easy to deal with. Even the sales people are easy to deal with. I use the Honda Ownerlink and the Owner's Manual to understand what Honda recommends be done, and then talk to the dealer. I do the simple things myself, like the air filters and wiper blades with parts I order over the internet, and let the dealer do the messy and difficult things.
I was hoping to get the seat TSB taken care of during the service, but their computer was down and they said they had never heard of the seat rock TSB.
Overall, I've been very satisfied with the car.
I do rinse it off regularly at the local quarter car wash. I wouldn't think the high pressure hose would force water inside unless I stood there for a really long time. Which, I don't.
Anyone have any similar problems?
Icdchess - MSRP is a little high, but not unrealistic for a first offer. In most areas, CR-Vs are going for $500-1000 off MSRP.
Icvci - Clean it up and see if it happens again. Is it possible that water from the top of the door jamb dripped down the window into that spot?
Steve
Then spray a tad on all the hinges in the doors and hatch, and then the bushings in the sway bars. Odds are you'll quiet a couple of those squeeks. Good luck.
-juice
Anyone put after market floor mats in their V? I'm wondering why Honda chose to cut out the section on the left side of the drivers side mat. Sure, there is a pad there but, why not just cover it all up with the mat? Seems like it'll just wear out the carpet instead of a replaceable mat.
I wish there was a dead-pedal.
Can anybody out there give me a good reason to go with the Honda--or vice versa? You don't have to write an argumentative essay--just give me your gut-reaction.
But the longevity and value ring in my ears. I just can't get over its looks. It's boxy. I like the style of the OBW much more. But we've test-driven both a couple times, and the CRV is winning by a narrow margin.
If you don't need the extra room, or really like the high seating position, get the one that you feel is more satisfying to drive.
The base Outback has the all-weather package, which includes heated seats, mirrors, and wiper de-icers, plus a rear limited slip diffy, and the AWD is full-time. So if snow fall is heavy in your area, it's a good choice. Those are things the CR-V does not offer, so it's hard to compare them directly.
The Legacy L now comes with the Special Edition package standard - that includes a dual moonroof on the wagon plus 16" alloy rims and 55 series tires that are very sporting. It's an amazing value - ABS with 4 disc brakes, CD, AWD, cruise, keyless, power everything, 2 moonroofs, 16" alloys for under $20k.
fitzmall.com has the Legacy L/SE wagon with automatic for $19,779 including freight, and 5 speeds are even cheaper. The base Outback wagons with automatic start at $20,792.
The CR-V EX MSRPs for $22,740, and with discounts of $500-1000 off MSRP, you're gonna spend more, probably about $22 grand. It has a moonroof and the base Outback doesn't, but the L/SE does.
But you could add an aftermarket moonroof to the Outback and still spend less money. It cost us $900 on our 2002 Legacy L, so that would put the base Outback with an aftermarket moonroof at $21.7k.
In other words cheaper, plus you'd have the heated seats and some other extras.
We test drove a CR-V EX but decided the Legacy L was a better value. After adding aftermarket moonroof and alloys, I'm still under $19k overall.
-juice
Anyway, thanks for the input.
The Honda may or may not last longer, I think at that age, and over 100k miles, maintenance and care mean everything. Honda's warranty is kind of short, but consider an extended warranty regardless of what you buy.
A buddy just vacationed in Oregon and said it was beautiful, you're lucky to live in such a scenic area. DC is one big swamp that was back-filled! At least the monuments are nice and the Smithsonian is free. :-)
The CR-V will be fine for the snow duty you're considering. Good luck shopping and enjoy whatever you choose.
-juice
Colors.
That's it. It was pretty pricey too. Otherwise you really can't go wrong. Subies are extremely reliable. I really would have liked the heated wipers. But, that back seat was just too cramped.
My favorite color for the car is Eternal Blue, but then I noticed that it ONLY comes with black interior. So I checked out the interior at the dealer and found that the black is sooooo black.
I really prefer the saddle interior because it is light and airy, but unfortunately it's not an option with the blue exterior. I'm concerned about the heat generated from a black interior (I live in Southern California), as well as the upkeep (dust and dirt seem to show up more on black.) Also, and this is a female thing, I always check my back seat before getting into my car and was wondering how well one is able to see back there at night, especially when the interior is so dark already.
Thanks.
Also, if you slide the rear seat all the way back, you can barely fit a stroller in the cargo hold. With our Legacy we can easily fit a stroller and still have enough room left to do a quick diaper change (with a rain shelter).
The CR-V is much taller and will fit boxy items better, but the Legacy/Outback has a larger cargo floor. They're just shaped differently.
FWIW, Black is impossible to keep looking clean.
-juice
I haven't put a stroller in the back yet
but, is the problem width or depth?
I would think there would be enough depth, unless strollers have gotten a lot bigger.
http://www.hondacars.com/images/banners/2003/cr-v/interior_galler- y/photo_03_large.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/- VEHICLE/2003/Honda/100194921/005178-E.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/- VEHICLE/2002/Subaru/100002730/009932-E.jpg
seats
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/- VEHICLE/2002/Subaru/100002730/009958-E.jpg
Passenger Volume (cu. ft., mfr.) 106.0 95.9
Maximum Cargo Volume (cu. ft.) 72.0 68.6
Headroom (Front, in.) 38.9 38.5
Headroom (Second-Row, in.) 39.1 37.2
Legroom (Front, in.) 41.3 43.3
Legroom (Second-Row, in.) 39.4 34.3
Shoulder Room (Front, in.) 56.9 53.9
Shoulder Room (Second-Row, in.) 56.5 53.6
Hiproom (Front, in.) 54.5 51.3
Hiproom (Second-Row, in.) 53.5 51.9
According to Honda's site you have two more inches of legroom up front and five less in back. So, even if they moved the front back two inches, I'd have three more in back. Personally, I found the backseat of the Outback difficult to get in and out of.
According the numbers above the CR-V is roomier everywhere but up front.
Our baby's Graco travel system stroller easily fits in the rear. There is a TON of room left for other stuff.
I also like the fact the the rear seats in the CR-V are elevated so rear seat occupants can see over my head. It's really nice back there. Wish my dad had had one when I was a kid!
As for leg room, in the CR-V you sort of feel like you're on a bar stool vs. a chair. But I didn't have room to stretch my legs forward all the way. Oddly this wasn't a problem on the driver side, only on the passenger side. But even the driver side didn't have a dead pedal.
Numbers don't tell the whole story - I could not stretch my legs in the passenger seat of the CR-V. We were shopping for a car for road trips, and to me it just wasn't comfortable, while the Legacy was. There were other factors, too, like range, but that was key for us.
I guess you could modify the seat track, then I'm sure it would be fine. FWIW, very tall folks have modified the front seat tracks on Outbacks to go back even farther.
Kids are usually in the back so to me rear legroom isn't nearly as important, and adults fit just fine IMO. You're right about it being harder to get into - our Forester is much easier due to the seat height, you just slide in. You sit down into the rear seat of the Legacy.
I had a back sprain last year and the Forester was far less painful to crawl in and out of.
Stadium seating rocks.
-juice
Someone in the Escape vs. Liberty vs. Sante Fe vs. Forester vs. CR-V thread took a tape measure, and from the back of the rear headrest to the window, the Forester measured 7" longer. Something like that. Clearly the Subies prioritize cargo space, maybe becaus they expect to carry kids in the back seat.
Kudos to Honda for making the rear seat slide forward on this new generation. But we bought one of those rubber liners for the cargo floor (ever change a diaper and get, um, wet?), so I'm not sure how that would cover the whole cargo floor with the seats pushed forward.
-juice
Aren't you folding the stroller first? I haven't tried just rolling it in there. The back is plenty big for a diaper change.
Damn Honda, why isn't there a dead pedal? An even bigger question is why the floor mat doesn't cover the area where the dead pedal should be.
I'm never a passenger. My 5'4" wife is, she has more than enough room up front.
Juice, how are the anchors arranged in the Forester and Legacy? I have always admired Subarus and may consider one when we replace the Accord.
I've had a few hondas before the V, but my only issue is I don't trust the AWD system lasting 100K miles. Subaru's probably got 4WD down better then Honda. Of course, I would never keep any 4WD for many years/miles. All that drive train stuff is big $$$ to fix, probably more then the book value of the car.
We were shopping for my wife, so I sat in the passenger's seat while she test drove. Later I drove it for fun - nice engine by the way.
Any how, I suggest you take your family with you on the test drive. I bet if you're 5'6" and have 3 lanky teenagers that play basketball, you'll end up with a CR-V for sure.
Subies have had the tether anchors in the upper back since 1999 IIRC, and LATCH on its full line up by MY2003. Doesn't the new CR-V have the LATCH system too? I bet it does.
To me, the ideal Honda would combine features from the CR-V and Element. Start with a CR-V, and hide a full size spare so it's not hung on the door, and no major damage in bumper bashes. Gimme the Element's wipe clean interior, and maybe the extroverted styling, and definitely the bigger rims and tires. 5 seat capacity and payload from the CR-V, interior flexibility from the Element.
Or take the opposite approach. Start with the Element, add more payload and capacity for a 5th passenger. Then just add those seat with the seat belts built-in like the Sebring and Sierra offer, so you don't have to remove your seat belt to let the kids out.
Any how, we might get something bigger next time so it'll be Pilot vs. the big 2005 Subaru SUW, or maybe even a minivan (yikes!).
-juice
edit: Joey - the problem with the EPA is that they measure cargo to the roof, when it would block your view. CR-V is tall so that kind of overstates it's usefullness. Unless you haul sod like Gator Greg did! LOL
Slide the back seats forward, there's more room. Tumble one, or both of them for even more room.
Personally, I like the fact that a La-Z-Boy recliner can (and has) fit in the back of the V. A 36" TV in it's box also fits in the back. Then there is the mountain bikes standing up with their wheels still on thing. Gimme height.
Plus, combined with the stadium elevation effect, the extra headroom makes the back seats very comfortable for adults.
No more strollers? Lucky duck. We just started using a double stroller.
The sliding rear seat in the CR-V are very nifty. Let me ask, though, does anyone have a rubber liner for the cargo floor? How does that work, when you slide the seat forward, doesn't that leave part of the cargo floor unprotected? Also, does Honda sell an OE liner, or did you get something like MacNeil offers? Maybe someone could design one that has a flap that folds over to further protect the cargo floor when the seats move forward (vendor opportunity!).
I love boxy shapes, too, I've hauled an oversize washer dryer in my Forester, hatch closed, in the box! :-)
A little extra height is good, but it can also be too tall IMO - like the 4Runner. You have to climb in to those, lift infant carriers a long way, and use running boards, which then soil your pants when you get out.
The Forester is at an ideal height for me, in fact a group representing handicapped persons gave it an award for just that. The CR-V seems to have an easy step-in height too. The 4Runner is a bit tall, the Legacy a bit low. But there are other trade-offs - the cargo lift over height for the Legacy is the lowest and most accessible.
-juice
My favorite Civic cargo story. I pull up to Circuit City. The guys look at the car and the 32" TV in it's box and tell me they don't think it'll fit. It fit. So did the box with the disassembled stand, my tool box, two empty 5 gallon water jugs, my wife and myself. They just stood their amazed. And, it averages 38mpg.
I love hatchbacks.
I don't know about a cargo liner juice. Good question. I'm pretty sure they don't make a special one for the CR-V.
Double stroller? Eeeek. Our first is due 2/15 and I can't wait. Everything is in the V and ready to go. I have to agree with robmarch and his car seat assessment. We went to the local fire station to have a certified tech check the fit of the baby seat. It was really nice to get on the seat and put my knee into it with out having to be a contortionist.
I've owned only one vehicle with a trunk, never again.
What are you doing on-line, you should be sleeping right now!
Be a sport and help the wife out as much as possible. Good luck.
-juice
I don't know how either handles the rear seat movement.
Sleep? I'm in Michigan, it's 11:30 am and I've been at "work" for 3 hours. I'm trying to get her to rest! Of course I'll help her! What kind of husband wouldn't?
That cargo liner really covers the sides up to the window? Sounds cool. What happened to Handaparts.com anyway? I was looking to see what that liner looked like.
-juice