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Also I assure you the 2011 Sonata is definitely faster than the Camry XLE.. and the GDI is very peppy. And if the 0-60 is close, wait until you got to some turns and you would know who is going to win that race, especially if it's the SE. And if you equiped the Camry XLE to have most of the same features as the Sonata Limited, it would come to $29K vs. $25,295. I think you were looking for more of a quiet cruiser type of vehicle though.
i did notice that you were against the Hyundai 4 cyl even before it was available.
we are both old dogs, but i am still able to learn new tricks. :P
No. I think the sonata was built for "greenies", not the genesis. My wife teaches and the youth seem to worship the earth - that's where the "greenies" comment came from.
On the USAA website, I could not get a genesis near 30k OTD or may have considered it. I was also buying safety to protect myself from Tiffannee (with two e's) while she is busy driving and texting her friend asking where she was at (ending her sentence with a preposition, of course)
I, too, am an old dog, but am not afraid of learning new tricks. But staying safe so I can learn scuba is important to me. USAA says talking on the cell phone while driving is as dangerous as driving while impaired. I'll learn my new tricks while staying safe.
On the Genesis, another route to that if you really wanted one would be to get a slightly used one for under your $30k target that would actually have a longer bumper-to-bumper warranty than your Venza.
We weren't interested in anything used and for the warranty, we got a lifetime powertrain warranty. It's probably only at the dealership - I failed to even ask that - but we don't plan on moving anyway. I think it is more likely that toyota will restructure itself under a different name/brand or something when the full effect of the lawsuits hits them. Foreign owned and no union labor? What were they thinking!!
you will have to start that one. :surprise:
Nissan - CVT (they own you if you ever have transmission problems and good luck when you want to sell it AND don't let the IRS make your options packages for you as they are too complex)
Toyota - history of 6 speed transmission issues (I don't see the UA as a problem, but as a government/lawyer issue - again, only me)
Honda - VCM problems
Ford - 6 speed transmission unsure what gear it is to be in
Mazda - didn't really look at them as I once owned an RX-7 and don't want to ever deal with mazda again
Chrysler - speaks for itself. Lifetime warranty? For the car or the company?
Perhaps a "why I did not buy a midsize sedan" OR "what consumers are searching for in a midsize sedan" would be a good idea. As for me, I don't plan to buy anything for at least five more years.
These were issues for ME and my views only, not necessarily anyone elses. As for the transmission - it does indeed have the camry drivetrain. I stated they have a "history" of 6 speed transmission problems. I believe the issues to be resolved and am not worried about it. Again, just my view of it. Not saying I'm right or wrong, but I felt comfortable enough about it to "put my money where my mouth is" on this one.
??? Got a 2010 Fusion (My first Ford, always stayed away from them in the past< but that's another story) and the transmission never seems to hunt or anything. Works as I expect it to, downshifts when I need it, etc...
About the 2011 Sonata, you said in a post earlier today:
"We were rather disappointed. We thought it was cheaply built..."
...but then just a couple hours later, you follow that up with:
"IF the 2011 sonata had a 6 cyl option this year, I genuinely think we may have purchased it"
Gee, the car sure feels cheaply built... but it has a V6, so I'll buy it anyway! Sorry, I'm just having a hard time calculating this. Genuinely - a real hard time.
We had followed the sonata for more than a year. We toured the hyundai plant just south of Montgomery (perhaps someone can find out if it is actually within the city limits and bring this to my attention). We pretty much had our hearts set on a sonata and thus the "attachment" to the sonata. First we'd been "excited" about a new car in quite some time. All the hype. All the ads. Etc. Had the sonata come with a 6 cylinder, we most likely could have or would have overlooked a number of other things we didn't care for (I know... how could you not care for something? Why don't you point out what they are? and I've seen the new sonata and there's nothing someone couldn't care for... etc, etc) For us.. and us alone... the ONLY midsize car we cared for was the toyota camry - and we didn't even plan on looking at a toyota. We had never heard of or seen a venza until we pulled into the toyota dealership. (I'm sure someone would like to know how we didn't know about the venza..etc..etc.. The venza isn't a midsize sedan... Did you know they make them in Kentucky where they still have moonshiners?... etc etc) We put a lot of thought into it over the following week. We COULD have purchased a 2010 6 cyl camry XLE for less than a 2011 sonata limited (I know....how can one compare those 2 cars? they aren't the same years... etc, etc, etc) and the 2011 6 cyl camry XLE for not much more than the 2011 sonata. After looking at and driving the camry, fusion and sonata we ruled out the latter two. After we saw the venza and drove it, we opted to look into it. For a couple thousand more we felt we got a far better vehicle than we could have with a midsize car. It takes us a while to save $30 and thus we didn't want to exceed it. We could have bought a more expensive car, but we set our limit at $30k OTD. (Now the financial experts can point out the benefits of zero percent for five years from toyota, or lease vs. buy or whatever makes you happy). We have no debt and wanted no debt. We wanted the best midsize sedan we could get for $30k or less out the door and believe we got a far superior vehicle for our $30k budget. We are happy (I know we could be happier if we had just followed someone else's advice or if we had just done this or that). Forgive me if I offended anyone's logic or decision making processes, but I just thought I'd share MY experiences with the midsize sedan and why we opted NOT to go that route.
Why I prefer to buy new
I don't think most buyers in this day and age, and especially in the favorite demo of marketers, use the same reasoning you do, but it's still interesting to hear it.
Enjoy your new vehicle!
I'd go with the Sonata; the depreciation hit has really already happened in part, but you still get a brand new car without the worry of who abused it before-hand.
Go test-drive one.
Sonata Article
I used to own a Camry Hybrid, the only time that car was quiet was when it was parked. Even with the engine off and in EV it made noise. It was poorly made, had wind noise, the sunroof stuck, and the seat materiel was thin. Toyota quality? NOT! I have over 13K miles on my 2010 Fusion Sport and I don't have a single complaint about it's quality. It took about a week to find many faults in the Camry, and I was very disappointed in the quality. I really don't see the hype in Toyota, I really don't, not after owning a Prius and a Camry. The only thing I guess is the soft mushy ride that old people like.
The point I was trying to make though is it doesn't take it off the price of the car, you still pay what you pay for the car, it doesn't come off the price of the car, and it wont be until you actually file your taxes that you find out how much you get back with that credit.
In your example, if you got a $7500 tax credit and the max tax you owe was $5000, and with the credit it brought you down to zero tax owed, you only get back the taxes you paid out, so if you paid out $4500, and would have owed $500, you get $4500 back. So in theory it reduces the cost of the car by $4500, but not the $7500 of the tax credit. So it all depends on which tax bracket you are in.
In any case, I still don't see it helping to sell a $40K car the size of a $20K Prius. Not with a Chevy badge on it.
are 19 inch rims available on any of the popular mid size sedans?
I think that in reality I've just outgrown (or perhaps outaged) the midsize vehicle market. And maybe the camry (or venza) is in fact my "crown vic". On the bright side of being over 50 (and always living on yesterday's money instead of tomorrow's) the cost of tires, etc. is insignificant. The 30k limit was an arbitrary number for us (9 months savings). Had we wanted to spend more we certainly would have. But we bought what we both saw as the "vehicle of our wants and needs" and are very happy with the decision.
Enjoyed the forum. May God bless each of you with your car decisions.
No, the Sonata was built to pass government regulations going into effect for 2015 models. Hyundai is trying to get ahead of the curve, and be the first to meet the new CAFE standards for bragging rights ( I guess). But I know what you mean. Much of the "green" stuff is just a scam.
A lot of hard core 6cyl users are liking the Sonata's i4, saying it has plenty of power. You should have took one for a drive.
but no manual transmission..
http://jalopnik.com/5505977/2011-hyundai-sonata-turbo-274-hp-34-mpg-no-manual
Click me!
I'm glad to see Suzuki be so excited with the reception of the Kizashi, but I haven't seen any out on the road yet, unless they have dealer plates...
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicles/future-cars.aspx
I read an article last night about the upcoming 3 Series redesign. It noted the inline 6 would still probably be offered, but also turbo 4's. Turbo 4's are also slated for the next-gen 5 Series. Hyundai is ahead of the curve. Let's see if Honda and Toyota keep up when they introduce their next-gen mid-sizers in a couple of years.