2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

varmint · October 2003

I wouldn't say that Honda has dropped the ball, but it certainly looks like your dealer has. At the moment, they are only guilty of providing poor customer service. Technically, I don't think they've done anything wrong, except for not telling you what the problem was. That's where I'd start.

ateixeira · October 2003

I'd open a case up with the NHTSA. Get their help and attention. If Honda gets adversarial (which I doubt), this might end up in a recall initiated by NHTSA. They have the power to force an automaker to fix something.

Perhaps a fuel line was pinched or something like that. Your vehicle should be examined by a pro.

Most important, be glad that you're OK! My dad survived a Camry that spontaneously combust itself.

-juice

isellhondas · October 2003

I would look for a double gasket on the oil filter. If the old one sticks to the block and the guy changing the oil doesn't catch it a stream of oil will blow onto the cataltic converter.

We had one towed in where that had happened.

ateixeira · October 2003

Always wipe the area where the oil filter gasket goes. It's good to clean it plus you'll catch any left-behind gaskets.

Don't ask me how I know...LOL

-juice

isellhondas · October 2003

That's exactly what happened here.

ateixeira · October 2003

Wonder if there would be evidence left over, not burned to ashes? Maybe not, rubber and oil burns pretty quick...

If that's the case, it's the oil change shop's fault.

-juice

explorerx4 · October 2003

had the 'double gasket' one time when i changed the oil filter, but it only dripped oil. always 'double check' it now.

ateixeira · October 2003

Yeah, I had minor dripping and noticed the Idiot Light (which I deserved!) that came on immediately. Didn't get far and parked it ASAP.

Didn't think about the possibility of a car fire, yikes.

-juice

sabrina9 · October 2003

Thanks for all the info. Just to follow up. Ins co has paid claim (though check not in hand just yet) and they are investigating to go after Honda or dealer(who did the oil change) It has to be one of them. Unfortunately, there is a few k difference in the money they are giving me and the price of a new CRV (or any other car). That is what is really bothering me. No matter whose fault it is - Honda or the dealer I really don't care. I'll accept it was a freak thing or accident but IT WASN'T ME. All I ever wanted was just a replacement vehicle, never asked for anything more. After all the car IS under warranty. If the bumper fell off they would replace it without making a big deal - but when the car blows up, everyone points fingers. I have been a Honda owner for 20 years (and bought 2 Hondas in the past 12 months) and would have expected Honda to either step up and give me a new one or split the cost with the dealer. They have easily spent more time on this than it would cost just to give me a new car. My only stipulation is that it is not an '03 (little freaked about that year now) The oil angle is interesting, but if you see the pictures (which are scary) of the fire damamge that I took, the damage seems to be on the top and front of the engine (as best I can tell). Plus the engine did not sieze and something I think would need to spark the oil. This was no drip... with no warning smell. Saw flames almost immediately after the smoke. Discussions with the dealer is ongoing so I can't say much (and at least they have been cooperating so far), but HONDA is spending lots of time avoiding the issue. Just get together folks, I'm the innocent one!!!!! I wuld have thought if Honda thouught it was the dealers fault they would demand it is rectified. This is real small money for them. Will keep all up to date, thanks

ateixeira · October 2003

Let's see what it turns out to be. Make sure you tell whoever investigates everything you know.

As for the amount you get - well, it is used. Slightly used, but used nonetheless. They're not gonna polish off a new 2003 model because your 2002, even with just 7500 miles, is worth 20% less.

They might help you find a very low mile demo or slightly used one to replace yours, that would be a reasonable demand, IMHO.

-jucie

jmurman42 · October 2003

when you get your new car...whatever it is, make sure you get GAP insurance.

jose18 · October 2003

Thanks tomk17 for your reply.

The light did finally go out on it's own after about seven trips.
Very glad I didn't have to go to dealer again!

Thanks!

sabrina9 · October 2003

Admittedly, the car is 6 months old (the car was an '03) but it is under full warranty. If your tranny went out after 20k miles would you accept if Honda went to some junkyard and pulled some tranny or would you demand they put a new factory fresh one in. There is a difference between something happening after warranty expires and Honda is acting on goodwill. In that case, I might accept a used tranny. I was not originally asking HOnda to replace the burned out vehicle as goodwill, I am asking them to honor their bumper to bumper warranty. According to Honda warranty they will fix or replace a problem which occurs under the warranty period. That means with new parts, not canabilizing other cars.

joey2brix · October 2003

I don't think it says anywhere that brand new parts must be used. Just OEM, and Honda could used a re-conditioned engine/tranny to meet warranty since they are backing up the used part if it fails again. We all know the story with insurance: it's always gonna cost you a pocket of change with any loss between the deductible and "their value" of the loss.

stevedebi · October 2003

I understand Honda's point - if the fire was caused by human error (such as a bad oil change), then it is an insurance matter.

However, if it was a defect, they really should honor their warranty. For example, if a piston should go bad and ruin the engine, they would replace the engine...

The problem, of course, is determining the nature of the fire. I agree with other posts - get an independent analysis!

sabrina9 · October 2003

Thanks, SteveDebi (and others), you've summed up what I have been trying to say. My point was not to expect Honda to honor their warranty if it was human error caused by an oil change. If indeed it is proven it was human error on the oil change, it was done by the Honda dealer!!! Of course, it was the same day that two recalls were also performed on the car and these service people are presumably Honda trained. It is THEIR insurance matter, not mine. Look at it this way, if the car was little older and I had no fire insurance on it and a service person (dealer or otherwise) ruined my engine, wouldn't any reputable place pay to fix it? What does MY insurance have to do with it? We may never know for sure which was at fault. I guess I expected Honda corp to act as a go-between to make sure things stayed on the right track -no matter whose fault it is. Three weeks (and counting) is a long time without a car. The ins co is performing an analysis now - the results should be interesting. This is real small money for them

robr2 · October 2003

In many industries, warranties do not covered incidental damages. That's what your fire was and why you have insurance and all manufacturers have insurance. In my industry, if a product fails it can cause major damage to a home. If that happens, the customer's insurance is there to cover the damage. They in turn go after the manufacturer's insurance company for reimbursement.

Although that is little consolation to you, Honda has done what is required by their warranty. Could they step up and do more? Of course, but they (and every other manufacturer) would be giving away new cars everyday.

Good luck with your next vehicle.

varmint · October 2003

If Isellhondas is correct and this is the result of poor servicing by the dealership, then the Honda Corporation is just as innocent as Sabrina. I certainly wouldn't expect them to get involved until the problem or defect is understood.

It sounds like this is being handled correctly. The insurance is covering the claim and they are in turn going after the dealership.

sabrina9 · October 2003

Rob2, I disagree with that analysis in my situation, although the example you used it is correct (the laws in my state may be different). If my car, because of the fire crashed into another car or burned my house down (because it was in my garage) or the car behind me slid on the oil, those are incidental damages that would need to be litigated either by me or the insurance company from the other car owners. BUT, let's say a piston broke after 5000 miles (not my case) and it caused a crack in the engine, the ENGINE itself is not an incidental damage. If that happened, would you expect Honda to give you 20 bucks for a new piston, or you would expect them to replace/rebuild the engine (your insurance company would not even cover your loss). Of course, what is incidental depends on the cause (and a judges opinion) and that I don't know yet. REMEMBER, this car is under full warranty - bumper to bumper (those are the only parts that are left - LOL). All I am saying is since the car is so close to new, it is easier to give me a new car than to try and fix the old one and argue endlessly (they would have to unmelt it first). Between all the lawsuits from the ins co to Honda, they are easily spending more than the difference to make me whole and frankly if it is determined to be a defect across lots of cars (and not just mine), can you imagine what their exposure is to other owners? They could have given me the car as goodwill, admitted no fault and done. I will be filing a NHSTB form on this

I love these forums and I am happy to keep them up but I do not want to monopolize with my problem, so I won't respond anymore unless there is a direct question. You all can tell how disgusted I am with Honda on this - for small change. Thanks for everyone's help.

robr2 · October 2003

Keep in mind that fire and accident damages are things you have insurance for. A broken piston/block is covered under a warranty. If you did damage another vehicle or property due to a defective part, damages are covered by insurance. You really wouldn't expect the warranty to fix someone's fence would you?

There probably won't be any lawsuit involved for you carrier to get paid. Your insurance will be reimbursed through subrogation with Honda's/dealer's product liability insurance carrier.

I know it's a fairly new car and you are upset about not the full amount you paid. But that is an issue to take up with your insurance company, not with Honda. Heck, I'm fighting one now - I wasn't at fault, but it still cost me a few bucks to have my car repaired.

andrelaplume · October 2003

So if it is a defect on a 2002 under warranty on a totalled car I'd expect Honda to find another w/7500 miles, same color same options and in the same condition OR offer you something else used or offer you a special deal on a new one. If all fails, refund your money. Wonder how the warranty is worded...tough situation....makes me think I am better off buying a car 1 year old...if you can find one that is not a lemon....

If the dealer turns out to be responsible...sounds like your screwed as your insurance is all that will be available right...then again they may want to at least find a demo 03 for you at no cost...I mean you are very likely to be suffering emotional distress and you'd think they'd hate to mitigate that....

LET US KNOW HOW IT ALL TURNS OUT!

aggie1995 · October 2003

sorry about the fire, hope things get worked out.

Honda should do more but unless you litigate this with your own attorney you probably won't see the difference in money between what the insurance paid you and what it will cost you to get a new car. Go after the dealers insurnace if you find out that it was the oil change that caused the problems. Going after Honda will be tough unless you have the ability to draw media attention to your plight.

Don't think for one minute that your insurance company's lawyers are looking out for you. HAHAHA!
They only look out for themselves, no matter what they tell you.

At least call an attorney and see if you have a case. it will cost you ~$150 for an hour's time but it will be well worth it if you aren't shelling out 3,4 thousand to buy a new car.

And just to back up Honda and the dealer here, since at this point NO-ONE knows what caused the fire why should anyone take responsibility. Maybe you picked up some flamable debree on the highway that got stuck in some freak place and caught fire? Maybe your ex sabotaged your fuel line overnight. Maybe the whole thing was put together badly in the first place. Maybe you tickec off the sevice station attendant who did your oil change? The point is no-one knows.....yet.

Don't wait to take action. If you don't protect yourself no one else will!

mikefm58 · October 2003

I suspect a lot more is going on behind the scenes between Honda and the dealer. And it's probably the dealer that is keeping Sabrina in the dark. Having a fairly new vehicle destroyed either like this or in a car accident is extremely unfortunate w/o gap insurance as you'll never get what you owe on it, that is unless you put up a big down payment. You're probably out the difference here Sabrina as no insurance company will give you more than the estimated value at the time of the accident. Not even sure if you have any legal basis to get that from the dealer. If in fact it was the dealers fault, or who ever did the oil change, then they really suck.

I too have messed up an oil change and ended up with a double gasket. I changed the oil & filter on one of my vehicles, it ran fine for a week, then all of a sudden the oil pressure light came on. I put 2 quarts of oil in, started the car, then watched as it all squirted out in less than a minute, luckily no fire. I then had it towed to my house, jacked it up, double checked my work and found the double gasket. No idea how it ran fine for a whole week before leaking.

andrelaplume · October 2003

Good point on ins company's...case in point...I had a minor (if there is such a thing anymore) fender bender once...the policeman man wrote up the report as though it was all my fault...at the time I was not thinking staight..was stressed out..it was my first accident...essentially I did not get my side of the story out. I soon learned that my ins company would pay both bills. This frustrated me because I was only partially to blame. When I mentioned this to my agent he basically said it would cost them more time and energy to investigate and to litigate than to just pay the bill....and of course raise my premium for a few years.

The point is you really need to determine the cause of the fire if you want any chance of recovering the difference between what the ins company pays you and what a new CRV costs...assuming it was a Honda defect or dealer negligence.....

Honestely, it is not in Honda's best interest to find out, nor the dealers. In fact it is only worth your ins company's time if there is some glarring negligence that gets them out of paying the bill....and if the dealer has already planted a seed that it was a fluke....well..you really need something conclusive here...I empathize because I am unsure how you get it...lets hope it was the double oil gasket and that the dealer does not try to limit their repsopnsibilty to the value of you CRV at the time of the incident...then you will need to start to threaten to sue for emoional stress etc. to recoup the rest. I'ts sad but thats how our system works. If it was a fluke I guess your stuck but at least came away unscathed. If it was negligence on the dealer, I hope they do the right thing and work something out that is reasonable to both of you. If it is a Honda defect lets pray they resolve it....especially before I decide to buy one...I am looking at small SUVs right now.

GOOD LUCK AND LET US KNOW!

ateixeira · October 2003

I can see Sabrina's point about not wanting to make a claim. It was not her fault, yet her insurance rates will surely go up with a "C" on her record.

Actually, if you want a real-world example, after we made a claim, rates went up by $300/year for the next 3 years, so it "cost" us $900 to file a claim, on top of whatever deductible you may have.

Say here is $500. That's $1400 out of her pocket over time. Is that fair?

-juice

robr2 · October 2003

...it depends on where you live. In MA, there wouldn't be any long term cost to filing a not at fault claim on an auto policy.

ateixeira · October 2003

Check with your insurance agent, I guess. Perhaps they could even file a law suit against the dealer on your behalf.

-juice

sabrina9 · October 2003

Hopefully, I'll have something to report by end of week. Dealer has indicated they will make a deal which will still cost me a little money, but will end this. Waiting for something in WRITING. Few extra points:

1. I don't have an ex so that theory is porbbaly not right.
2. Ins. co has already sued Honda and dealer for subrogation
3. My ins will not penalize me for a no-fault accident (in fact, if they win the subrogation, I get my deductible back)
4. No-one has still told me the reason. Left several messages at Honda Corp, but no replies, even by people who told me they would get right back to me. Will likely have to wait for ins co to make their investigation. The amount is over 20K, so I suspect the ins co will put some effort into this.
5. This car has never been of-road or towed anything or been in an accident. The area where the fire occurred was paved and smooth. Considering it is an SUV (although a small one), I would hope it would take more than a few rocks or even a pirece of metal to start a fire. I checked the area. Found nothing.
5. Things could be worse. I could own a Dodge Durango (anyone see that on the news tonite?). Funny thing, according to the show, Dodge is replacing the failed parts at 30k miles under warranty yet I can't get any satifaction at 8K miles....

Will keep posted

andrelaplume · October 2003

Sounds a little more suspicious but more positive as well...what deal is Honda offering...a new CRV? If it is truly just a 'little' more it might be the way to go. Personally I'd still feel more comfortable driving a CRV if I new what happened..

How long ago did this happen? You ins company has sued already...sound like they are on the ball...hard to believe they sued so fast!

aggie1995 · October 2003

"2. Ins. co has already sued Honda and dealer for subrogation"

- Have they won this suit? If they win then that means that Honda and the dealer are accepting some fault for this issue. If they settle out of court it means nothing substantial.
- This suit is for them to recover their losses. Yes you get your deductible back but....who is representing you and your loss of a perfectly useful vehicle?

4. No-one has still told me the reason.
- That should be a big red flag right there! Get an independent analysis

5. Considering it is an SUV (although a small one), I would hope it would take more than a few rocks or even a pirece of metal to start a fire. I checked the area. Found nothing.
-Should-a, could-a, would-a......it all means nothing at this point. And unless you are a forensics specialist I would not even offer your opinion of what you did or did not find. Get an expert to check it out.

This is my last post on this issue. I was only responding because you seemed to be very outraged that you would have to spend money out of your own pocket to get a new vehicle. But in every subsequent post your vigor seems to lessen. So as my final remarks on this issue.

No one is going to look out for your interests the way you will. If this issue is really as important as you initially made it out to be, then you need to do something proactive about resolving it. If you are happy with taking whatever deal the dealer comes up with go for it. Good luck with your next vehicle purchase and I'm glad you were not hurt in the fire.

mikefm58 · October 2003

Just recently happened to me. State Farm cancelled my homeowner's policy, reason was "claim frequency". Four claims in the last 8 years for a total of about $550. Between my homeowner's, 3 cars, and 1 motorcycle policy I give them almost $5K a year. We need insurance, but they are not our friend.

Glad to hear some news in the right direction Sabrina, hope they do things right.

LOL about the Durango & Dakota ball joints on the news last night. I've owned several Chrysler products in my young and foolish days and will never own one again.

robr2 · October 2003

aggie - "Have they won this suit? If they win then that means that Honda and the dealer are accepting some fault for this issue." No if they win, that means a jury decided Honda/dealer are at fault. What they are doing is subrogration - normal insurance stuff where one insurer repays another.

mikefm58 - luckily here in MA, you can't be denied auto insurance. Any company doing business in the state must insure you. Of course the state sets the rates and there are few discounts. If you have many at fault claims, it just costs you a whole lot more.

robr2 · October 2003

I'm driving my Dad's 02 EX this week. I turned it off and tried to close the sunroof and it didn't have the retained power feature I'm used to in my Honda's. I don't have the manual so I can't check there. Does the CRV really lack this feature?

Thanks.

cgphil1 · October 2003

My '03 CRV EX does not have this feature. This feature is in our '98 Accord. In the Accord I can wind the glass down/up, open/close the moonroof for several minutes after the ignition key is turned off but not in the CRV. I do not believe there is any reference to this in the manual.

robr2 · October 2003

Thanks - I have a 98 Accord and 00 Ody and both have the retained power option.

But the CRV has the lockout prevention driver's button that is lacking in my vehicles.

Hmmmm!!??

sabrina9 · October 2003

Sabrina again. I was crusing the NHTSA web site for complaints on 03 CR-V. Check this out. This is verbatim. I DID NOT FILE THIS COMPLAINT. My shift cable was done as a recall the same day the oil change was done, about 5 days before the fire. I was driving about the same speed

Make: HONDA
Model: CR-V
Year: 2003
Complaint Number: 10042645
Summary:
AFTER HAVING THE SHIFT CABLE LINKAGE CORROSION RECALL REPAIRS PERFORMED, WHILE DRIVING AT 30/35 MPH, VEHICLE CAUGHT ON FIRE FROM UNDER THE WINDSHIELD. THE CAUSE OF THE FIRE WAS UNDETERMINED. *AK

What does anyone think? Obviously I need to get a further copy of the complaint, but this changes things.....

tomk17 · October 2003

I've seen that 40 mm clear plastic film advertised for use as headlight protection. Looks like about $69 for customer cut pieces for an 04' CR-V. Based on the size of the lenses on the V and the sand / salt used here in the Northeast during the winter, it might be a good investment. I'm not so much worried about lens breakage but minor chipping and pitting over time that would detract from the nice clear look they have now. Has anyone tried this and if so, pls direct me to any good sources. Thanks

stever · October 2003

There's some links in the Car front end protective bras & film discussion. Most of the companies used to try to sell kits for the whole front end but I think that's changed.

Steve, Host

ateixeira · October 2003

Scary, Sabrina. If anyone has that recall pending, I'd hold off until they figure out what's going on.

Pure speculation - perhaps they spray/coat the cable linkage to prevent rust, and the spray itself is flammable. Say some overspray gets on a hot exhaust or something?

But didn't your fire start at the front of the vehicle?

-juice

cgphil1 · October 2003

I have both recalls pending a fix. CR-V A/T Shift Cable and CR-V Throttle Cable. Just could not find the time to go in and get them done.
Now I think I will put them on hold.

varmint · October 2003

Let's not throw common sense out the window because of one poster's problem and a bunch of scary speculation. I wouldn't ignore a known recall because you "read something on the Internet".

I'm not suggesting that any of the above speculation is outrageous or silly, but c'mon folks. I don't think it's quite time to announce that the sky is falling.

ateixeira · October 2003

Sabrina's case seems to be progressing pretty rapidly. I bet we know more in a week or two.

I'm sure holding off until then won't do any harm. Recalls often take months to be completed, what's an extra week or two?

Just my opinion, do this at your own risk, no animals were harmed in the formation of my opinion, yadda yadda yadda...

-juice

stevedebi · October 2003

I had the cable recall done about 3K ago, no problems so far...

surfbabe1977 · October 2003

Hubby and I had both our CRVs (2002 & 2003) repaired for both the recalls in early October. No fires here!

sabrina9 · October 2003

To answer the Q, the first time I saw flames was out the driver's wheel well. Whether that qualifies as the front or "under the windshield" as the person on the NHSTA site said, I don't know, I was too busy getting my butt out of the car. But I did fax the NHSTA posting to the dealer and my insurance company. The ins co picked up the car today (only 3 weeks!) and will deliver the check tomorrow. If the dealer stays true to their word (which they have done totally so far), I will come out of this at very minimal financial cost, which is why my temper has come down (but it went up again when I saw the NHSTA). Honda?? As Varmint says I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet, since the risk is still small and alot depends on when the car was built. The fire happened within a week of the recall (sounds similar to the post), so if you did it al ong time ago, not sure I'd worry, either. I am VERY interested to get a copy of the complaint from the NHTSA -who, what, where, when, but it has to be ordered. Maybe it is nothing, but I'll tell ya - same car/year, same recall, same immediate result, sounds like they got the same answer from Honda. They must have been po'd. Honda (cal) has not returned my last 5 calls - not even to say "sorry". Nothing. I may start calling them again just to say "Hi - any recent news"

andrelaplume · October 2003

Not to be suspicious but if they are replacing your '03 with a new '04 for a minimal amount...well I wonder how much Honda is ponying up to the dealer....almost sounds like a cover up.....

scname · October 2003

I had the misfortune of getting both the throttle and transmission cable recall and oil change done on Monday before I read Sabrina's post and that NHTSA complaint.

I checked my CRV this afternoon, it ran fine but it left a 6 inch puddle of oil on the gagrage floor below the right engine bay. The chasis below the filter is soaked with oil and the cat converter appear to have been splashed with oil ( it is dry now).

This is my 4th oil change, don't recall seeing oil on my garage floor before. Will examine it further tomorrow. BTW, the dealer is Gillman Honda in Houston.

tigerinroc · October 2003

Just got my new car 2004 CRV. Noticed queaking noise when stepping on brake at slow speed atred lights, stop signs.. Does anybody know what it is and if it is normal?

Thank you for your advice.

varmint · October 2003

Tigerinroc - Sometimes it takes a little while for the brake pads to seat properly against the rotors. That shouldn't take more than a week to work itself out, though. If the sound persists, take it in to have it looked at.

mikefm58 · October 2003

That almost sounds like the oil filter isn't on tight or the old gasket is still on. I'd get that looked at ASAP.

2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

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