Midsize Sedans 2.0

benjaminh · November 2013

wayne21: As you know, most people around here tend to pitch for their own cars, and I'm no exception. There are lots of good choices--Optima, Mazda6, Fusion, as well as the car that I own, the 2013 Accord.

You say you've written off the CVT Accord because of the stuttering or lugging. There were some early models with this problem. Apparently it was a software issue, and has been fixed. I own a 2013 Accord EXL 4 cylinder Navi with the CVT, and I don't have those issues that have been talked about. The benefit of the CVT is that it helps give the Accord excellent hwy mpg. I've gotten 36-40 mpg on highway trips, driving 65 mph + with the AC on.

Other benefits of the Accord include: highest rating available on the IIHS small-offset crash test, unmatched by any other midsize car; the best visibility of any midsize car; near or at the top in acceleration; class exclusive features like lane departure warning, collision warning, etc.; the only standard back-up camera in the class.

And, if the CVT bugs you, you could just skip it and go for the ultimate Accord, which is called the Touring. This model has the V-6 and a regular auto which about equals the BMW in acceleration, plus adaptive cruise control, etc.

I know you've probably made your mind to write off the Accord, but my 2 cents is to give it a test drive with your wife. It's less of an "old persons" car than the Avalon. Of course the same is true about all of the other midsize cars.

Anyway, there are lots of great choices, and you probably can't go wrong.

explorerx4 · November 2013

I understand that some people are more risk averse than others.
You do realize some people drive vehicles with 2 wheels and no doors, right?
It's not a big deal to everyone.
Personally, crash testing is not high on my list when buying a vehicle.
One of the reasons I moved from a small to a mid size car is because I feel it is less risky, although I still have my smaller than mid size 22 years old convertible.
BTW, the link was to the crash test of a 2012 Lexus ES.

wayne21 · November 2013

benjaminh - I would greatly appreciate it if you could type out the link to the 2012 Lexus ES test results. I know that some have stated the crash test doesn't mean much to them, but it does to me and the Lexus ES is something that my wife and I were going to consider and we wanted to know the partial offset crash test results. Thank you.

jayrider · November 2013

IHS shows the Lexus does GOOD in all areas including the partial offset collision.

explorerx4 · November 2013

Lamest post here in a long time.

wayne21 · November 2013

Thank you for the reply jayrider. However, all that shows up for me is a black "x" with facebook connect and I don't do facebook. So I googled it only to find that the Lexus ES350 actually failed the partial offset crash test. The article also made a few points on the test (#2 being most important to me):

This was the first time that the IIHS has used this new crash test, and 72% of the vehicles involved failed to pass.
Its being reported that nearly a quarter of all serious and fatal automotive injuries are caused by this type of crash.
Every vehicle that was tested meets all federal safety standards and has done well in other crash tests.

To explorerx4 - lamest post in a long time? Thank you for the feedback.

explorerx4 · November 2013

Provide a link to the test of the 2013 Lexus ES, or Avalon, failing the partial offset test, and I will apologize a thousand times.

ivan_99 · November 2013

The 2013 (new) ES350-Avalon has not yet been tested in the "small overlap front"

The old 2012 ES350 did fail the small overlap front...as did the "new" (2013) camry

wayne21 · November 2013

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/new-crash-test-aims-to-drive-improveme- - - nts-in-protecting-people-in-frontal-crashes

Edited:
I googled 2012 lexus partial offset crash test. I was unaware ANY lexus had been tested - only knew of the camry - thus my question. Not looking to exchange apologies, merely looking for information on partial offset results. I had no interest in a lexus and really wasn't aware of a change from 2012 to 2013 so that lack of knowledge on my part probably caused confusion.

I think the older one gets the more important safety becomes (maybe we want to be sure we prolong life or something - idk). As for me, I think I'm going to wait for the partial offset tests on anything that I am considering. I couldn't find anything on the Hyundai genesis sedan either, but all in good time. And as my wife and I have always agreed - it will take a 2 vote for anything we buy.

benjaminh · November 2013

wayne21: I agree that these are important issues. Since the Avalon hasn't been tested on the small offset, we can only guess, but since most other Toyotas and Lexus vehicles tested have failed, it doesn't look good right now. Toyota is going to upgrade the structures of these cars and they'll do better in a year or so, but for now they are inferior to the competition. It's mostly Toyota that seems to get the "Poor" result. For instance, the Optima got an "Acceptable" rating, which is two notches above.

For about a decade, Honda has been developing its Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE), which uses a special structure with high grade steel. This seems to be why they seem to be about the only company to earn the "Good" rating from the IIHS on the small overlap crash test. Here's a little more info:

"The 2013 Accord unit-body uses 55.8-percent high-tensile steel, more than in any previous Accord. In addition, 17.2-percent of the steel is now grade 780, 980 and 1,500  extremely high grades that have never before been used in any Accord.....Collision safety engineering includes the updated Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure, which improves occupant protection and crash compatibility in frontal collisions...."

http://automobiles.honda.com/news/press-releases-article.aspx?Article=6825-en

Now I'm sounding like the Hyundai guy! Sorry about that...

I really think there are a lot of cars that are about equal to the Honda Accord in most areas, including the Fusion, Optima, and Mazda6. And in some areas those cars are better. Most people like the styling of those cars better, and the most magazines like the handling of the Mazda6 better than the Accord. The Hyundai Sonata is a very good car too. The Hyundai Genesis is their luxury car. Very sharp. You might look at that one too.

vser · November 2013

As I continue my quest for a new ride, I was able to take out an optima SX turbo w tech and premium today. I tried to pay attention to the main issues that I've read abt. Those issues are the road noise and rougher ride. I drove in on the Parkway and some local roads for a few hours. On the highway at 70-80 mph I did hear some wind noise, but nothing major. The steering wheel held steady at high speeds. There wasnt much drifting. There was limited if any turbo lag. If driven properly, the car gives you a lot of power on demand. On the side roads I did feel most of the bumps. I also felt very connected to the road. In some senses it was good and bad. As a reminder my other car that I'm interested in is the Avalon. I was able to drive the Avalon recently too. While the Av still felt the bumps it was a touch more forgiving. On the optima I did notice that the pedal was much more firm. Almost seemed like I had to work a little to stay on the gas pedal. The Av's gas pedal was softer and "Springier". Another difference was that the optima barely fit me. In other words if I leaned all the way towards the left side, the handle up top was close to my head. The optima could be defined as a cockpit. The Av was much more spacious. The optima's stereo was good. The Av was very good. The optima's seats were also very contoured whereas the Av's were decent but a little wider and a touch less supportive. Both infotainments were similar so that's a wash. As i type I think about whether I want to feel classier or sportier in my car. My life is a little of both. I drive a few hours a week for work and spend time working from home. I'm also a weekend warrior and enjoy playing a few sports. Even though the cars aren't in the same class, they're both semi finalists. IMHO if I can get the optima for 8k less it might be my choice. If the gap is only 5-6 k, I think the track record and residual value of the Av will be worth it.

gene103 · November 2013

Accord is a fine car, but lane departure warning and collision warning are not exclusive to the Accord in the mid-size segment, nor is true blind spot monitioring, cross traffic alert, active headlights or pre-collision braking available

benjaminh · November 2013

I didn't know that. Which other midsize cars have lane departure warning and forward collision warning?

I think the Accord is the only one with the passenger side camera. My wife loves it. I could easily live without it, but I admit I like it and use it sometimes.

crkyolfrt · November 2013

Don't confuse forward collision warning (which I think the Accord has on some trim levels...pretty sure I saw that on the window sticker of a Cdn 4 cyl EXL the other day..altho might have said 'braking' but don't think so at its price point) with forward collision braking. I wasn't aware any of the mainstream mid-sizers had that.

All this stuff is such a potential HUGE money maker for the mfgrs. Ever since ABS tech incorporated traction control (the ability for an ABS hydraulic pump to be proactive in applying a brake independently of any operator input) it's all just a slight change of connections on what is probably the same damn IC board. If it costs them more than mere pennies to offer the FC braking aspect instead of just the FC warning, I'll eat my toast this morning burnt..All the tech needed is already there. It's no different than entry level cars charging $400 and up for cruise control, since drive-by-wire came along..ppfffttttt..Yet all this extra stuff has so much significance to some purchasers they actually decide on a car because of the toys, more than the driving dynamics of a particular car. The Koreans were the very first to figure this out and exploit our naivety and superficialness.

That said, some of this tech has real world value worth more than the costs to offer it to the consumers, which I don't dispute for a second...but it's the mfgrs that are laughing all the way to the bank..

[Deleted User] · November 2013

Here is the link. The 2013 ES 350 scored POOR in the small front overlap test.

Sorry. http://www.cars.com/lexus/es-350/2013/safety-ratings

Why is everybody fighting this time?

crkyolfrt · November 2013

ex'll "apologize a thousand times"

Sure is gonna make for a busy board for the next little while, haha

I noticed that vser I think it was liked the sound system in the SX. Not sure about the US but probably the same..our turbo has the Infinity Premium Audio, so no wonder it sounded good. I wonder if the Av also had an upscale unit? He said it sounded best, but the SX was good too.

I am starting to focus more on my wants with my next vehicle. It has to have GREAT sound, be super quiet on the highway, and not jar my fillings loose on our frost heaved roads, but still has to have decent feedback from the wheel. Seat heaters, but NO sunroof, great supportive seats and head restraints that don't jam my head forward (that one is proving to be quite difficult), no run flat rubber, and a corrosion wty longer than 3 years...3 years Chrysler?? Seriously? only 3 years??? Afraid of something??

I'd like a heated park area for the wipers but probably going to have to be flexible on that one. And the seatbelt can't rub my neck...or even come close..(also not so easy to find but easier than those dang anti-whiplash HRs

[Deleted User] · November 2013

These "driver assistance" safety systems are just part of what is going to be auto-drive; or autonomous cars. The systems are going to be ready FAR before the roads and legislation are going to be....but in a much shorter time than folks realize there will be auto-drive sections or lanes in our nations highways. Personally I find these driver assistance "features" ridiculous. If you can't stay awake, or in your lane then you do not belong on the road until you can. I would be interested in auto-drive though where I could take a nap and then wake up refreshed enough to drive again. In other words I don't want half the system...I want the whole thing.

The new Mercedes S class already has it. For 16 second intervals the car will drive all by its lonesome. After that an icon flashes (with a picture of a steering wheel and two red disembodied hands around it) to make sure you are still awake, or the car will pull to the shoulder and stop.

The unintended benefit? Now it will be even easier to text while driving!

Yippee.

crkyolfrt · November 2013

Ya, I just watched a clip on that S class this w/e..pretty cool but I gotta be me so insert :eye roll: here, haha

I wonder how it deals with a deer jumping out on a really slick, icy/slushy road? The whole system will wanna fry itself from too much processing overload.. Perhaps when it first senses a wet surface.. a seat vibrator with a message that says, "Put the damn phone away". "Idiot". lol

wayne21 · November 2013

Thanks for that link cski. I think it's sad that the 2013 lexus - newly redesigned - failed the partial offset crash test. IDK if Toyota places a small emphasis on this test for some reason or if they just failed in their engineering. But that test may or may not mean something to different people. To me it is a deal killer! I spoke with my son earlier today. He bought a new lexus GS350 in August and I asked him how he felt about it failing the partial offset test. He told me the subject came up when he was buying the car and the dealership told him the camry failed, but the lexus is a "different animal" and passed with flying colors. Imagine that! But he also told me it didn't make a difference to him one way or the other and he bought the car because he liked it and wanted it.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

Try adjusting the seat again. I am 6'2" and 280, and I have plenty of room. Our interiors are identical in every way that matters, with the exception of the sunroof. I don't have one. A loaded SX does, but I can't imagine it would cut into headroom that much while leaning to the left.

I am very very comfortable in mine. I get tired and my back starts to hurt after about 350 miles, but then again I am heavy so I think that is mostly my fault.

On the highway stability, I can attest to that. once in the lane she does not drift. Easy ride on the interstate. The exhaust doesn't drone and the wind noise is very low at 75-80 mph, which is the acceptable speed through VA, NC, and SC on I-95. Mid range passing power is excellent.

One of the things I most like on the Optima is that it rarely sounds like a 4 cyl. Hyundai-Kia did an extraordinary job in tuning the motor and trans, and they work very smoothly together. As long as I stay off ECO mode, it always has the right gear ready when I need it. I only use the paddles to downshift at lights or to back off my speed at bit to save my brake pads.

It is a very satisfying car to drive, cheap to own, and everyone loves the way it looks.

I think you might want to drive the Honda Accord V6 Touring though before you make a decision. If I was thinking about buying closer to $32,000...I would at least test it. It does have a 6 speed automatic and 278 HP.

crkyolfrt · November 2013

I think it's important to consider that with any of these vehicles an impact variation of mere inches one way or the other could render different results. Same with what you are hitting. Even a tractor trailer rig hit at the same offset as the rounded off concrete or steel in the lab, would be more forgiving as the bumper would fold quickly into the front tire of the truck, also a much less formidable object to hit compared to a fixed object designed to not give at all.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

Damn shame. The 2013 ES 350 is a fine looking automobile. Lexus did a good job on it. The 2012 was much plainer looking.

So, any finalists? Narrowing it down? I think you have covered on all of the major points, and there comes a time when you gotta go for it.

How are you on trying the Accord V6 Touring? It's gotta 6 speed auto! Poor mans BMW. I wish it had the 18" wheels, but if you wait until Dec. 30th to buy, the salesman may take them off a Sport and bolt them on yours for one more sale!!! LOL.

explorerx4 · November 2013

Who is fighting? I'm just trying point out the facts.
link to IIHS for ES350
If you want to use cars.com for your info, feel free.
I prefer to go to the source. :surprise:

wayne21 · November 2013

I wouldn't touch an accord, but that's just me. Bad experience with multiple transmissions and a front motor mount (never had either of these replaced in anything else I have driven in my 40 years as a driver). Honda has a long history of transmission problems and IDK what the issue was for consumer reports to not recommend the 6 cyl accord. Someone here who may have been privy to the info stated it was the radio/infotainment system, but IDK. If I had to guess I would guess it was the oil burning 6 cyl (class action suit filed against them on this issue up thru 2012 - class action obviously wouldn't include future cars like the 2013, but it's the same engine with direct inject) or the 6 speed transmission which they've had more than their share of problems with (if you google it).

I'm in no hurry to buy, but I think I'm going to wait for the new Hyundai genesis - after the crash test ratings - or my wife even mentioned an infiniti Q50. I have issues with the infiniti, however. I really don't care that much about the cost of the car, but there are a couple of issues for me on the infiniti (I know, I know, difficult/picky customer). They come with leatherette (which I prefer to call it what it is - vinyl) and leather doesn't seem to be an option. And my second issue is premium unleaded. One could say if you can afford the car you can afford the gas and I agree. But it's not that I can't afford it, but it's the idea of it. Come on! It's a 6 cylinder! If 8 cyl engines with over 400 h.p. can run on 87 octane why can't a 6 cylinder? From a practical standpoint, if I'm paying an additional 20 percent per gallon of gas - to calculate my EPA mileage I would reduce it by 20 percent (as if I were using 87 octane) and "per dollar" vs. per gallon, I then see the EPA as 16 and 23/24. That's not acceptable to me. And I just looked and although the Q50 crash tests weren't available, the G37 results were... and they are less than impressive. I think I'll just wait for something that fits all my "wants" and if it doesn't show up I'll just forego buying something for the sake of having a new car.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

Touche' , but I didn't have to. It literally took me less than 30 seconds to find a respected national automotive publication stating the 2013 Lexus ES 350 failed the offset frontal impact test.

If Cars.com is reporting erroneous information, then I bet Lexus is very, very unhappy about it. What you found said "moderate offset crash". Not sure what the difference is. I know my Optima passed and so I bought it.

I still want those 1000 apologies!

A deals a deal! LOL.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

Wow man, you put a LOT of thought into cars. More than me. I forgot you were the Honda guy with 3 transmissions in under 100k. Yeah. Not good.

Ohhhhhh, OK. Frankly from the way your posts sounded I thought you would be buying very soon. Thanks for clearing that up.

backy · November 2013

The G37 is a really old design, so if I were you I wouldn't read anything into the Q50's crash worthiness based on the G37.

One car you haven't mentioned that might meet your requirements is the S60. Has the highest IIHS crash test rating, the legendary Volvo seats, fun to drive, runs on regular unleaded, starts in the low-$30s. On the smallish side compared to other cars you're looking at, but maybe worth a drive.

The other car you might want to reconsider is the Legacy. I know you said you live in FL so "I don't need AWD", but I live in MN where Subarus are popular, and I don't "need" AWD for 99% of the driving I do either. It's that 1% in snow or even heavy rain (and it DOES rain in FL, right?) where AWD helps, plus it helps overall handling even in good weather. And it's got a lot of what you're looking for in a car, such as top safety ratings and highly reliable.

vser · November 2013

The interior of the accord just bugs me. I might be able to get a v6 w Nav and tech for 30.

The Av stereo is 11 speaker 785 watts. That's only in the limited tho. Both stereos are wayyyyy better than the accord. Id be happy w either stereo. I'm 5 9 so I hear ya. I fit, just barely tho. Maybe I'm comparing it to the Av's interior.

Would you buy another kia given the opp?

gene103 · November 2013

Lane departure warning is available on the Altima, Fusion and Mazda6. Forward collision warning available on the Fusion and Mazda6. "City Braking" available on the Mazda6 which will apply brakes if you are going under 20 mph and it detects an impending collision. These are the one's I'm aware about.

ab348 · November 2013

I think your summation nails it. If you can get the Kia for a significant difference vs. the Avalon, it probably makes sense. The Kia HP rating is likely overstated but it likely compares to other makes with a rated 220-240 HP. If you keep it a long time you might run into some issues that the Avalon would not have, and you are trading off some refinement and comfort for the sportiness. But an $8000 difference probably makes that trade worthwhile.

explorerx4 · November 2013

You should be the one (of several) apologizing for posting misinformation.
Not only that, you don't even understand the topic.
Hopefully, some day you will learn to drink from the fountain of truth, not from the trough of I read it on the internet so it must be true. HA HA.

crkyolfrt · November 2013

Fountain of truth? I suspect that instead, cski, like a good number of the rest of us, are so use to blatant bias on this forum, that not everything is written in stone...until it is..

At least he has a sense of humour...and encourages it in others even if often the attempt is futile.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

Yes.

crkyolfrt · November 2013

Do it soon...about Feb?, cuz I'll need to thaw out around about then and I'll drive down and buy yours as a well cared-for and loved used car. I know it lacks the heated seats I'm looking for but life is full of compromises..:)

stickguy · November 2013

my son was looking at cars on the internet yesterday (he just graduated college, and if he can ever land a permanent job will be looking for a new one) and for some reason was looking at the Mazda, and showed it to me saying that it looked really good.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

I saw a 2012 SX turbo loaded to the gills, for $24,000 with 12,000 miles on it on cars.com. You should go for it gimmee!! I bet you could snag it for $22 thousand!

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail/photos/multiPhotoPopup.jsp?listingId=128248- - 288&tracktype=usedcc&aff=national#0

I mean, what more could you ask for in a low mileage car that looks like this and has just 25 short of 300 hp? ...and it still gets 34 mpg highway? and has 100,000 mile warranty?

I think it is safe to say that I will definitely be buying another Optima at this point, but you never know the future for sure. There are a vast number of cars that I can picture myself owning. I want a rear drive car again too at some point.

gee22 · November 2013

Funny how you should mention the s60. Its actually the reason I got the Mazda6.
When my Camry lease ended last October, my intention was to get the new Accord but I was waiting for the price to come down. Meanwhile, my wife was driving an Accord that she had to take away from her mother. Her car had always been an AWD SUV and since I wants making progress getting the 2013 Accord, she asked to flip-flop and I took my mother-in-laws car and my wife got an AWD s60.
After driving the Volvo, I now needed two must haves on my next car, blind spot monitoring and active headlights and the Mazda6 was the only one in my price range

ivan_99 · November 2013

>>and has 100,000 mile warranty

Funny thing about the warranty, I'm not certain it sways many people. I was speaking to one of our finance VP's who keeps his vehicles, for what seems, forever. He's currently driving a 99 Accord...

Anyway...around here KIA is advertising 20 year, 200,000 warranty. I told him about this and how the "new" KIA's are very competitive...he still says he'd go for another Honda. He can't get past the KIA badge and believe the Honda would be better long term.

I'll probably persuade him to drive one whenever he's looking for a replacement (probably in the next couple years).

akirby · November 2013

Warranties don't translate to better products. It just means the factory has to add enough to the cost of the vehicle to cover any warranty repairs. You can typically buy the same lengthy coverage on other brands, and some people would rather have zero or one out of warranty problem as opposed to having 3 or 4 problems covered by the longer warranty.

jayrider · November 2013

I don't think the 100k warranty transfers to the second owner.

vser · November 2013

I really could care less about the warranty. What concerns me is how long any car will be in the shop getting fixed. Sure, I'd rather not pay for the repairs. But what good is a warranty if you don't have a car to drive.

The Kia dealers talks about why "doesn't honda give you a 10 year", etc etc. They should say you probably won't need our warranty, be it's here if you do. Kia is up against it when it comes to convincing ppl to buy.

On another note, I see that a lot of ppl trade older kias for newer ones. I wonder if that's bc Kia gives the best trade in allowance for their cars.

ivan_99 · November 2013

I agree, that was my point...not even 20 years 200,000 warranty can persuade some people; the people that value longevity.

I mimic the consensus...I'd like to avoid the whole repair-process if possible. I believe the Kia's were on-par (or similar) to the Honda/Toyota...etc. I suppose it takes time to change perspective/reputation...

explorerx4 · November 2013

I thought that was an inspired comment and pretty funny, too.
That's why I put HAHA at the end.
Bias and opinions are fine, we all have them, but I will point out misinformation when I find it.
My hope is people will see this forum as a resource, not just a place where proponents of Brand A take potshots at Brand B, C, D,...Z.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

It swayed me, and allows potential customers to get over the Kia badge, and dispels questions about quality that come from some people about owning a Kia. Also, I have a family; including three school age children who depend on this car; and the warranty gives me peace of mind. I can't handle a sudden $3000 bill for a transmission for example.

I have not heard of Kia offering a 20/200 warranty here, but I live in a very international area, and Kia's have been sold successfully in other countries for decades so very few people care about the badge. There are zillions of Kia's in DC metro.

Finding a reliable car that won't end up in the shop all the time is tricky. Sometimes going with the underdog brand with something to prove will net you a very good car, instead of blindly going with Accord or Camry year after year hoping the bean counters wont make the engineers rest on their laurels.

akirby · November 2013

The point was you can buy a 7 yr/100K mile extended warranty on a new vehicle for around $1500 (or less) and finance it with the vehicle to avoid that big repair bill. And unless you only drive 10K miles per year that's the same coverage as Kia's 10yr/100K mile warranty and it's transferrable to future buyers.

So you can just add $1500 to an Accord, Camry, Fusion, Altima, Malibu, etc. and have the same "peace of mind". It's not a bad thing but it's not something that's exclusive to the Koreans.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

You are right! Since I am the original owner I never cared to go look it up.

I did find out if you buy a used Kia CPO it DOES transfer so that is good.

I purchased an extended warranty to extend the 5/60 bumper to bumper to 100k, and I am not sure if it transfers or not. I hope to keep my car until the warranty expires, and then some.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

This is the Optima I originally noticed and thought was so cool. I had gone with my mother to help her buy a Forte' back in 2010, and this car was on the lot:

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail/photos/multiPhotoPopup.jsp?listingId=128186- 746&tracktype=usedcc&aff=national#0

After we were finished signing the contract and I got her on her way; the last thing she said to me was "your going to buy one aren't you?" A week later I came home with my baby. I didn't end up with this one, as the price tag was $31,000 - but I loved the style of the car and I still do.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

Yes, I am aware of that keenly. I was pointing out a particularly nice car to gimmee, and the post had nothing to do with warranty terms. It had to do with how much car you can get for $23,000.

I have an extended warranty on my Optima, because when you think about it, most of the components that are likely to fail are not covered under basic powertrain warranties. Radiators, water pumps, power steering, alternators, CV joints, half shafts, sensors and electronics, emissions, exhaust, etc......all are not covered under the 10/100 powertrain.

The low mileage car that was pictured would have been a CPO car if it was sold at a Kia dealer, and CPO cars do retain the 100k powertrain warranty.

ab348 · November 2013

Length of warranty and reliability go together, but one is not a substitute for the other. I bought a '09 Buick Lacrosse (the old style) that had chronic transmission issues, all covered under warranty. After numerous repair attempts the car still was not right and I gave up on it. I got a good deal when I bought it and got a good deal when I traded it so the financial hit wasn't what it might have been. While the warranty work didn't cost me any money, it was in various shops for weeks on end and even though I had loaner/rental cars for that time it was still a major pain. When the problems returned yet again I reached the breaking point and dumped it, which I think is a pretty normal sort of reaction. I would rather have a car with no problems and a moderate warranty than one with a long warranty that is constantly being needed.

[Deleted User] · November 2013

You are absolutely right. I would rather have both reliability and long warranty. That is why this forum is here. To let folks that are viewing this material know what is safe to buy and what isn't. On this purchase I did everything right. Research, research, and more research is how to get a reliable car. With the Internet at our fingers anyone with a little sense can filter out what is a good bet and what isn't.

After looking at the solid reliability of the Hyundai/Kia 2.4 liter cars with the 6 speed automatic and reviewing a lot of boards like Optima forums I bought one. I thought it was a good bet that it would hold up well, and look good doing so, and so far it has. No problems after two years and 23,700 miles is a good thing. Now I expect another three years as well!

I can no longer afford to "risk it" by buying american branded cars. I tried to go Ford and Ford let me down, and it has been my experience that there is always some gremlin on every American car I owned that breaks over and over again, just like your experience with the Buick. Also, I stayed away from high performance models with turbos, more expensive suspensions, tires, etc. They cost more to own, insure, and to maintain in the long run. (no SHO type performance packages).

In the the future maybe I can have my Porsche 911 or Corvette, but now I have to run lean and mean and get these kids into college. Priorities!

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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