thanks for posting this! looks good from the front, but the profile and the back are what I think are the most important. Nice to see the real thing coming out albeit piece by piece. The front fender flair must be pretty large to get that shape up front though. Looks to be an aggressive looking car...
I was comparing an 03 Sonata to 03 Accord. If you are going to compare different model generations, the let's compare the '08 Accords mileage to Any Sonata made to date...
Last I checked, Sonata still hasn't reached Honda's 244 HP mark....
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I kinda like the hips on that in the front, it actually has a little curve to it. It looks more nimble to me, I think its because the aggressive fender flares make the car look lower and wider.
Just goes to show how a different design can be interpreted by different people.
I look forward to new pictures other than this awkward-looking one to help change my mind, because I like Mazda's current look (except for the Tribute and CX-7).
Yeah, I also think the pictures can be misleading...I really didn't care for the Subaru Impreza photos when they leaked/released, but it looks a bit better in person. I guess I will reserve judgment until I see it on the ground.
One pretty big thing to note about the new 6 is that it will no longer be built on the CD3 platform but rather the new Euro CD platform which the Mondeo rides on. Once the Fusion is switched over to that platform in a few years Ford will finally have their Japanese, Euro, and U.S. branded mid-sized sedans on the same platform finally.
Horse hockey. There are dozens of non-German cars that will cruise at 120-150 mph safely. The Corvette, the Mazdaspeed6 and the Pontiac (Holden) GTO (soon to be the Pontiac G8) for example.
If you think that 3 mph top speed difference is the only performance variant between a 335i and a Sonata, then you have never driven nor would likely appreciate the difference.
Uh... no. Read what I said again, please. I wouldn't spend $15k extra because of 3 mph more (147 vs. 150 top speed). There's other attributes of a 3 Series I might spend the money to get, however.
What would a profit-makin, $20k mid-size Bimmer perform like? They don't have one but could they offer one that could compete in this segment There is not one Europeon car offered at this price to the world's largest auto market which implies a number of things(Saturn's don't count either). With the Euro valued 37% higher than the dollar, good luck finding one ever!
His point is just because the Sonota is speed limited to 150, doesn't mean that it will stable at that speed. While some other cars are extremely stable at that speed and higher.
His point is just because the Sonota is speed limited to 150, doesn't mean that it will stable at that speed. While some other cars are extremely stable at that speed and higher.
Thank you kdshapiro. That was my point exactly, along with the 335i reaching terminal, although limited, velocity quicker than the Sonata. Raw numbers alone don't tell the whole story. I only piped up originally because the Sonata was reported to be quieter than the 335i. The point is most people who purchase a 335i want to hear that I6 TT at full howl. What a sweet sound it is.
I'll say this again for clarity, I am not slamming the Sonata. I think it is an acceptable base car to compete on the lower end of the Midsize Sedan market. I do not think it is an equal to the Accord or Legacy however. IMHO
Polo! You can, if you so wish to drive any car of your choosing that fast on the Autobahn. There are few cars I would feel safe in though at those speeds. I would put a full cage in that Mazdaspeed before entering into the 120 - 150 MPH range, but then again, I am not you so it won't hurt anyway. Sonata wreck at 100+ MPH ...hummmm?
Guess those Corvettes hold up well in high speed wrecks, though there has never been any testing done which we can use to determine how they do compared to other cars in the normal crash tests. Wonder what a wrecked Corvette would look like if the speed was over 100 MPH at the time? I have considered a C4 but the back is said oh no, then a C5 which is easy in and out of. Wonder how they do in the real world? I think the records indicate a lower than average injury rate and a higher than average death rate, if memory serves me right. Go figure! 120 - 150 MPH crashes = ouch! If anyone has any data from a crash test, please post a link, thankx Loren
I have been following the forum for quite a while now. In January 07, my wife and I purchased a midnight blue Aura XR with the moroccan brown leather. Beautiful car. I know the Camry and Accord are the top sellers, but I truly think most people are missing out by not considering the Aura. The 3.6 with the 6 speed automatic is a gem. Just returned to San Diego from Las Vegas. The car was made for that trip. Tankfuls were 27 mpg, 26mpg, 28 mpg and 27 mpg. Climate control at 73 degrees. We have just over 3500 miles on the car.
I was curious before the trip to see how it would pull the grades. Most hills no downshift at all. On the long grade before Baker, one downshift into 5th and 80 mph at 2500 rpm. The car is extremely quiet. The gearing certainly encourages highspeed running, 80 mph in 6th is 21-2200 rpm.
One thing we have learned is that the transmission takes about 1000 miles to truly learn your driving style. The transmission learns over that time. After 1000 miles, it seems to never make a misstep.
Add 5star crash testing all around, plus my wife loves the adjustable pedals and you have one great car. Originally I was concerned that 252 horsepower would not be enough with Camrys with 268 and Altimas with 270, but believe me, I never thought I would say this, 252 is more than enough.
Unlike the Camry, it doesn't float. I have a 2006 Impala LS I drive for work, great car, but the Aura is in another league for curves. Steering feel is so much better in the Aura. It just does everything well.
Most average cars don't hold up well in high speed crashes. These pictures were taken after a wreck which occurred less than 5 miles from my house in December 2006. I didn't take them, they are posted on the local news channel website. The car shown, a Honda Accord, was stopped at a light when it was hit from behind by a Nissan Pathfinder which was estimated to be traveling at around 60 mph. Witnesses say they heard the big engine revving up at full throttle moments before the impact... The driver of the Pathfinder was fine, but the Accord's occupants did not make it, as well as a motorcyclist. Very sad, and scary.
No, you are not slamming the Sonata. But you used a four-letter word that starts with "sh" to describe it. You meant it as a compliment then, as in "oh sh**, what a nice car!"?
The Sonata is not the equal to the Legacy in one important aspect: Legacy has standard AWD. In some other aspects, the Sonata is superior to the Legacy. As for being equal to the Accord, the Sonata is superior in some ways and not as good in others. So "better" is relative to what the buyer is looking for. If someone is looking for a mid-sized car with lots of room, strong performance, excellent safety features, and would like to spend as little as possible for it, the Sonata might be "better" in that buyer's eyes than the Accord. The Accord might be better for someone looking for, for example, crisper handling.
I wouldn't want to get into a high speed crash in any car. Even the CTS, of which a high profile car crash was covered in NJ, burned up in a high speed collision.
If you make it out of one of these wrecks, G-d was on your side for the day.
As a car IMO, the Accord is better in the absolute sense. But you are right in the way you refer to buyers priorities. Using your baseline, a Lincoln Town car can be a better than vehicle for some buyers than a 750i if one is looking for a roomy luxo sedan at a much cheaper price. In the absolute sense though I would take the 750 over the Town Car in a heartbeat.
At speeds in the 100mph range, no car (without a real roll cage) is safe. 5 star crash ratings are to show injury rates for "minor crashes". Anything approaching 100mph is not minor.
No, you are not slamming the Sonata. But you used a four-letter word that starts with "sh" to describe it. You meant it as a compliment then, as in "oh sh**, what a nice car!"?
That part about the "oh sh**', I was definitely joking about. I apologize if you were offended. Please don't be.
The Sonata is not the equal to the Legacy in one important aspect: Legacy has standard AWD. In some other aspects, the Sonata is superior to the Legacy. As for being equal to the Accord, the Sonata is superior in some ways and not as good in others. So "better" is relative to what the buyer is looking for. If someone is looking for a mid-sized car with lots of room, strong performance, excellent safety features, and would like to spend as little as possible for it, the Sonata might be "better" in that buyer's eyes than the Accord. The Accord might be better for someone looking for, for example, crisper handling.
I completely agree with everything you said here. I personally think of the Legacy as a little small to be a mid-size but it is a great drive, especially in the Spec-B and GT forms. The Accord is a also a very good car even if it is a little boring to drive. It is boring to me, not to everyone.
Even though the Sonata may not be my favorite car in this list, I would agree that it has some appeal, especially the warranty. If you keep a car a long time the long warranty would be appealing. This is what is so great about current auto offerings, there is something for everyone.
The bottom line is you have to decide what best fits your needs and makes you happy. Happy motoring.
The Sonata is not the equal to the Legacy in one important aspect: Legacy has standard AWD. In some other aspects, the Sonata is superior to the Legacy. As for being equal to the Accord, the Sonata is superior in some ways and not as good in others. So "better" is relative to what the buyer is looking for. If someone is looking for a mid-sized car with lots of room, strong performance, excellent safety features, and would like to spend as little as possible for it, the Sonata might be "better" in that buyer's eyes than the Accord.
I disagree WRT the Subaru vs Hyundai. I think the handling of the Subie is much sharper, the steering feel is better, and the overall feel is sportier. I think the tires are grippier, the brakes felt less mushy, and the visibility was better for me.
The Accord might be better for someone looking for, for example, crisper handling.
I hope it gets better than this. I feel most bumps on the freeway, and the car corners like a wounded farm animal. I am hoping the tires are to blame, but there is still a lot of body roll.
You think the Accord has a lot of body roll?? The stock tires may slide around hard corners, but there is very little body roll. You certainly don't want to try cornering hard in a Camry or Sonata :surprise: , if you think the Accord has a lot of body roll.
IMO, the best handling to worst handling goes like this (not all cars will be included, just the ones i have firsthand experience with). These are all also 2006 models.
Mazda 6 (Feel every pebble) Ford Fusion (Feel every other pebble, but much closer to Accord) Honda Accord (My favorite balance, firm but compliant enough for me) Nissan Altima (Didn't stand out as good in either category) Hyundai Sonata (As balanced towards smoothness as the Accord is to sportiness - impressive ride) Toyota Camry (One word - creamy)
In a Camry with narrow tires made me end up going sideways down two lanes on a freeway. Luckily, I was able to keep it going in a direction where I didn't hit anyone, and no one hit me. I felt the tires were undersized, but the suspension being so soft definitely had something to do with it. Obviously, I wasn't used to driving the Parents' Camry.
You can change lanes quickly, but don't try and change your "change" right after making the change in a Camry! Got it? :P
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Remember the Lexus commercials a long time ago where they showed them driving over rail road tracks (along the track, not across) in order to demonstrate how "good" the suspension was? The driver might as well have been driving on a freshly paved smooth asphalt road according to the commercial. The wood planks were cushioned completely.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Actually, I don't remember them (depending on how long ago that was - I'm turning 20 this month). Having driven in my ex-girlfriend's family car (Lexus GX470) with the suspension even set to the Sportiest setting (it was 4-mode adjustable), it was very smooth and creamy. It also drove like a truck that was bigger than it was, which is how the Camry drove to me. The Accord is the other way around, though, it drives "small."
Elroy, I concur. I am actually starting to think there is something wrong with mine and the way the sway bars are connected or something. In any event, some H&R "OE" style springs should help also. They are conceptually very similar to the Neuspeed "soft-sport" springs - only lower the car very slightly and give it a small bump in spring rate. Still a good ride trade off and plenty of clearance for driveway dips and snow.
Legacy has a litle sharper handling, yes, at the expense of a harsher ride. More steering feel perhaps if you like feeling every bump in the road. Grippier tires? Maybe, I haven't tested the Sonata and Legacy back to back in an obstacle course. I like the brake feel of the Sonata and to me it has a bigger greenhouse (except for the Legacy wagon/Outback) and it plenty airy. Legacy has the standout feature of AWD of course, rare in this class.
I think the Sonata is superior in interior room and comfort, ride, NVH, fuel economy, warranty and value.
I think the Sonata is superior in interior room and comfort, ride, NVH, fuel economy, warranty and value.
Except fot the warranty, interior room and maybe value, all subjective matters, I don't disagree. But NVH? I've seen a lot of long term reviews of the Sonata where they've reamed it because of the thuds and discomforts. And the fuel economy of the V6 seems below average to that of the Accord.
This thread is on Legacy vs. Sonata. I've driven both and to me the Sonata is much quieter (less road noise and engine noise) and smoother. I've driven several Sonatas on long trips and never had any "thuds" or discomforts, although you can hear the big joints/tar strips on freeways.
Fuel economy is an objective measure--easy to compare the numbers. And I am pretty sure the Sonata's numbers are better than those of the Legacy.
My own subjective opinion is that the front end styling of the Accord is far more awful than that of the Sonata (which I don't actually find to be awful at all).
The Ford Fusion has, by far, the best front end styling, IMHO. Yes, we own one, a 2007 SEL AWD. Fine automobile. Handles like a go-cart and is loaded with amenities.
think the Sonata is superior in interior room and comfort, ride, NVH, fuel economy, warranty and value.
I think some of those items are subjective. I actually find the seats of the Legacy much more comfortable and supportive than the Sonata. I find the ride quality of the Sonata, eh, limp. FE is 23/30 to 24/34, although I seem to regularly beat that highway estimate. I think Subaru discontinued the wagon for '08, which I think is sad, because I previously thought that was one of the standout features for the class, since none of the other midsizers come as a wagon. I actually like hte NVH characteristics of the Subaru. Once underway its quiet but I like that you can feel a little kick when you turn the engine on. I noticed the new Accord actually does this too. Value...well that depends how you measure what is important to you. I think having a 30 mpg AWD wagon with a stick is very important, and getting 16" alloy wheels, trip computer, compass mirror and all the other goodies were just a bonus, especially for under 20k.
Absolutely. And since I'm never gonna buy a car that I don't like the looks of its a lock that I wouldn't buy a Sonata today. I think they're way behind in the style department.
I'd bet a huge amount of buyers purchase a car based on looks ALONE.
I don't see how bluetooth connectivity and support for MP3 player in any way challenges the business model for OnStar at this point. They serve different functions. As far as I can tell, it doesn't do anything OnStar does.
Comments
Anyway, here's the first official photo from Mazda of the second-gen Mazda6:
Last I checked, Sonata still hasn't reached Honda's 244 HP mark....
My honest thought? "Why is somebody posting the Mazda 2 on here?"
It looks so bulbous, tall, and narrow. It's like an Opel design gone bad, to me.
If I had to choose, I'd DEFINITELY take the current 6 over this thing.
I look forward to new pictures other than this awkward-looking one to help change my mind, because I like Mazda's current look (except for the Tribute and CX-7).
I think the new 6 looks fantastic too BTW!
Uh... no. Read what I said again, please. I wouldn't spend $15k extra because of 3 mph more (147 vs. 150 top speed). There's other attributes of a 3 Series I might spend the money to get, however.
Thank you kdshapiro. That was my point exactly, along with the 335i reaching terminal, although limited, velocity quicker than the Sonata. Raw numbers alone don't tell the whole story. I only piped up originally because the Sonata was reported to be quieter than the 335i. The point is most people who purchase a 335i want to hear that I6 TT at full howl. What a sweet sound it is.
I'll say this again for clarity, I am not slamming the Sonata. I think it is an acceptable base car to compete on the lower end of the Midsize Sedan market. I do not think it is an equal to the Accord or Legacy however. IMHO
Trust me, you will feel the difference between cars' handling capabilities, feel, and stability at high speeds.
You can, if you so wish to drive any car of your choosing that fast on the Autobahn. There are few cars I would feel safe in though at those speeds. I would put a full cage in that Mazdaspeed before entering into the 120 - 150 MPH range, but then again, I am not you so it won't hurt anyway. Sonata wreck at 100+ MPH ...hummmm?
Guess those Corvettes hold up well in high speed wrecks, though there has never been any testing done which we can use to determine how they do compared to other cars in the normal crash tests. Wonder what a wrecked Corvette would look like if the speed was over 100 MPH at the time? I have considered a C4 but the back is said oh no, then a C5 which is easy in and out of. Wonder how they do in the real world? I think the records indicate a lower than average injury rate and a higher than average death rate, if memory serves me right. Go figure! 120 - 150 MPH crashes = ouch!
If anyone has any data from a crash test, please post a link, thankx
Loren
I was curious before the trip to see how it would pull the grades. Most hills no downshift at all. On the long grade before Baker, one downshift into 5th and 80 mph at 2500 rpm.
The car is extremely quiet. The gearing certainly encourages highspeed running, 80 mph in 6th is 21-2200 rpm.
One thing we have learned is that the transmission takes about 1000 miles to truly learn your driving style. The transmission learns over that time. After 1000 miles, it seems to never make a misstep.
Add 5star crash testing all around, plus my wife loves the adjustable pedals and you have one great car. Originally I was concerned that 252 horsepower would not be enough with Camrys with 268 and Altimas with 270, but believe me, I never thought I would say this, 252 is more than enough.
Unlike the Camry, it doesn't float. I have a 2006 Impala LS I drive for work, great car, but the Aura is in another league for curves. Steering feel is so much better in the Aura. It just does everything well.
The Sonata is not the equal to the Legacy in one important aspect: Legacy has standard AWD. In some other aspects, the Sonata is superior to the Legacy. As for being equal to the Accord, the Sonata is superior in some ways and not as good in others. So "better" is relative to what the buyer is looking for. If someone is looking for a mid-sized car with lots of room, strong performance, excellent safety features, and would like to spend as little as possible for it, the Sonata might be "better" in that buyer's eyes than the Accord. The Accord might be better for someone looking for, for example, crisper handling.
If you make it out of one of these wrecks, G-d was on your side for the day.
I don't think Corvettes do specifically well in crashes.
Supposedly, this Vette crashed into trees at "a high rate of speed" in New Jersey.
&
Thanks for the site... I looked up Wrecked Exotics. Interesting.
Loren
That part about the "oh sh**', I was definitely joking about. I apologize if you were offended. Please don't be.
The Sonata is not the equal to the Legacy in one important aspect: Legacy has standard AWD. In some other aspects, the Sonata is superior to the Legacy. As for being equal to the Accord, the Sonata is superior in some ways and not as good in others. So "better" is relative to what the buyer is looking for. If someone is looking for a mid-sized car with lots of room, strong performance, excellent safety features, and would like to spend as little as possible for it, the Sonata might be "better" in that buyer's eyes than the Accord. The Accord might be better for someone looking for, for example, crisper handling.
I completely agree with everything you said here. I personally think of the Legacy as a little small to be a mid-size but it is a great drive, especially in the Spec-B and GT forms. The Accord is a also a very good car even if it is a little boring to drive. It is boring to me, not to everyone.
Even though the Sonata may not be my favorite car in this list, I would agree that it has some appeal, especially the warranty. If you keep a car a long time the long warranty would be appealing. This is what is so great about current auto offerings, there is something for everyone.
The bottom line is you have to decide what best fits your needs and makes you happy. Happy motoring.
I disagree WRT the Subaru vs Hyundai. I think the handling of the Subie is much sharper, the steering feel is better, and the overall feel is sportier. I think the tires are grippier, the brakes felt less mushy, and the visibility was better for me.
The Accord might be better for someone looking for, for example, crisper handling.
I hope it gets better than this. I feel most bumps on the freeway, and the car corners like a wounded farm animal. I am hoping the tires are to blame, but there is still a lot of body roll.
IMO, the best handling to worst handling goes like this (not all cars will be included, just the ones i have firsthand experience with). These are all also 2006 models.
Mazda 6 (Feel every pebble)
Ford Fusion (Feel every other pebble, but much closer to Accord)
Honda Accord (My favorite balance, firm but compliant enough for me)
Nissan Altima (Didn't stand out as good in either category)
Hyundai Sonata (As balanced towards smoothness as the Accord is to sportiness - impressive ride)
Toyota Camry (One word - creamy)
You can change lanes quickly, but don't try and change your "change" right after making the change in a Camry! Got it? :P
I concur. I am actually starting to think there is something wrong with mine and the way the sway bars are connected or something.
In any event, some H&R "OE" style springs should help also. They are conceptually very similar to the Neuspeed "soft-sport" springs - only lower the car very slightly and give it a small bump in spring rate. Still a good ride trade off and plenty of clearance for driveway dips and snow.
I think the Sonata is superior in interior room and comfort, ride, NVH, fuel economy, warranty and value.
Except fot the warranty, interior room and maybe value, all subjective matters, I don't disagree. But NVH? I've seen a lot of long term reviews of the Sonata where they've reamed it because of the thuds and discomforts. And the fuel economy of the V6 seems below average to that of the Accord.
The front end is aweful looking too.
Fuel economy is an objective measure--easy to compare the numbers. And I am pretty sure the Sonata's numbers are better than those of the Legacy.
Front end styling is subjective, no?
My own subjective opinion is that the front end styling of the Accord is far more awful than that of the Sonata (which I don't actually find to be awful at all).
The Ford Fusion has, by far, the best front end styling, IMHO. Yes, we own one, a 2007 SEL AWD. Fine automobile. Handles like a go-cart and is loaded with amenities.
I think some of those items are subjective. I actually find the seats of the Legacy much more comfortable and supportive than the Sonata. I find the ride quality of the Sonata, eh, limp. FE is 23/30 to 24/34, although I seem to regularly beat that highway estimate.
I think Subaru discontinued the wagon for '08, which I think is sad, because I previously thought that was one of the standout features for the class, since none of the other midsizers come as a wagon.
I actually like hte NVH characteristics of the Subaru. Once underway its quiet but I like that you can feel a little kick when you turn the engine on. I noticed the new Accord actually does this too.
Value...well that depends how you measure what is important to you. I think having a 30 mpg AWD wagon with a stick is very important, and getting 16" alloy wheels, trip computer, compass mirror and all the other goodies were just a bonus, especially for under 20k.
http://www.ford.com/en/company/syncMoreAffordableThanEver.htm
Since it does most of what OnStar does will GM stop charging for the subscription? Or maybe offer different levels?
Absolutely. And since I'm never gonna buy a car that I don't like the looks of its a lock that I wouldn't buy a Sonata today. I think they're way behind in the style department.
I'd bet a huge amount of buyers purchase a car based on looks ALONE.