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So you got a Base Mazda6 S with the moonroof option. This combination didn't even exist in 2007, so I guess you are lucky you got it when you did. Of course, if you use the same cost for the optional sunroof, going from the cloth trim base w/roof to the leather/heated seats touring is less than a grand.
I guess if you want the cheapest possible bottom line price, that is different then overall value. That upgrade gets better tires/wheels, audio system, and the heated leather power seats, and a few other little things.
Oh, does yours have the compass mirror? Is that something you were looking for?
Or, customers have just given up and settled for what they can get at a certain time, or settled for how an automaker bundles options instead of shopping around for other manufacturers that actually try and please their customers, instead of padding their bottom line. Hence the reason why I bought a 6 instead of an Accord.
Or they are looking for what offers the best value. Its interesting to note that Mazda dropped the manual trans on everything above the base model, so I guess everyone wanted that so now thats how they packaged it. But even Mazda created a package.
I actually bought the Accord because the Mazda I wanted didn't exist, so I guess that flips both ways.
That may explain it because we have 5 Saturn dealers in my metro area.
I told my kid that my price point is about $50. But then I don't see why one wants this built into the car, particularly given the price premium for this option. I understand the aftermarket ones are now as low as $100 with rebates.
For $50 it would be handy to have, as a convenience. But what good is a built in system, when you fly somewhere and rent a car?
Believe it. When I bought my 6 in '04, I wanted the Bose with 6-CD changer, moonroof, cloth interior, the V6 with 5-speed manual, and the sport package which included foglights and the body kit. The ONLY thing that I'd like would've been HIDs, but they weren't even offered on the 6 at the time.
I actually bought the Accord because the Mazda I wanted didn't exist, so I guess that flips both ways.
I can understand that, since I probably would've skipped on the 6 now due to the bundled packages for '08. I'm hoping that changes when the second-gen is released, since I'm up for a new car in '10.
Most cars in this discussion are between $20k and $30k. The CTS is in $30k-$45k territory.
Perhaps the title of this discussion is misleading; I can see how it would be to some.
I hope everyone had a very blessed Christmas/Holiday!
Its just my personal opinion, but if someone can get in a car and immediately find all the controls and how they work, the design is more ergonomically sound than in a car where some hunting is necessary.
The Gen VIII I was in (LX-P and an EX-L) seemed much more scattered and unplanned; less logical in its layout.
Maybe my opinion would change if the car were mine. I just didn't think the design was as smart, simple, and clean as the previous generation models.
Gee, I thought the "press" cars were always loaded models. Your opinion of the Accord's interior is fine but to state it as a reason for why Honda only furnishes loaded models is baseless.
they are not always loaded. My guess is Honda knows the Accord seems more average without nav and thus they make sure only cars with nav are provided for test drives. The "upscale" interior the Accord has been praised for is hard to appreciate when you see the non nav interior. Doesnt quite seem so acura-like without the big screen.
And then also we have the manufacturers, who like to advetise the features and performance of the top of the line V6, but quote the price of the base I4.
I believe the statistics indicate you are accurate, but how many mid-size owners on this forum have I4s? We have a V6 2007 Fusion, for example.
The manufacturers are also fond of quoting the highway mileage figures for the base I4s in their advertising. Not all that surprising. Just another example of "putting the best foot forward."
elroy has a 2003 Accord V6. urnews has a Fusion V6 AWD. dudleyr has a 4-cyl Accord, as does tankbeans I believe. There are a couple of Mazda 6 V6 owners around too, I just can't remember who owns them.
At my house, there are three 4-cyl automatic Accords ('96, '02, '06).
Welcome to the economy club then.
magazines are obsessed with manuals in midsize cars even though they are not popular amongst buyers. The Accord sedan dropped the manual with the V6 due to lack of demand. Now the 6 and Altima are the only midsizers with V6/manual combos. I rarely see that combination in real life though.
And, the difference is $2200 between an EX-L Automatic and an EXL-V6 Automatic Accord. Check out Automobiles.Honda.com for the actual information.
perhaps so, BUT a 3 year old Accord EX, 4 banger is worth about $1600.00 less than that same car V6 TODAY. Don't know what the premium for the V6 was in 2005, but even if we assume that it was the same as it is today and further that there are no additional options included for that $2700, doesn't that really make the actual cost of the V6 $1100.00? If you are truly appreciative of what a good V6 can do for these cars, consider those costs for what they really are, which using your numbers amounts to right at $50/month (for the first 3 years) and about $20/month thereafter depending, of course, on how much you drive and what happens to gas prices. The Toyotas and Hondas of the world are in no danger of any CAFE violations, and, in fact, lead the industry from a FE perspective. The 4 bangers sell because they are good engines for what they are and the fact that many buyers are like you and have difficulty getting over sticker shock. The other mfgrs. OTH, HAVE to offer their V6s relatively inexpensively because, for example, there is no comparison between the GM Ecotec 4 banger and the Honda 4 banger.
BTW, I get all the power I will ever need with my I4 Auto.This alleged need of more power for safety IMO is bogus. :shades:
What do you mean by "no comparison?" Is one clearly superior to the other? Which one? (I would guess the Honda.)
If you think that's ridiculous, you should see the price difference between the Malibu I4 and V6 (over $3000). :surprise:
Of course, extra features are typically included with the V6 models.
Of course, extra features are typically included with the V6 models.
Exactly, I got quite a few extras with the V6 Accord in 03, that were not available on the EX I4.
The Ford Fusion S only comes with an I4 but the SE and SEL models are also available with the 160-horsepower, 2.3-liter four. One year after purchasing an SEL with the V6, I wish that we had ordered an I4 SEL. 20-20 hindsight.
well you said it, but I'll certtainly agree, I would further contend that the Honda 4 banger is smoother and quieter than many of the 'American' V6s (esp. the pushrod varieties) never mind something much more mundane like those Ecotec 4s. Honda has led the 4 cylinder pack ever since those CVCC engines back in the 70s, and in the process left the US mfgrs. behind. I would be willing to bet you that the portion of V6 sales for the new Malibu will be substantially higher than what it is for something like the Accord and it won't have a whole lot to do with dollars - more a function of how 'good' the Honda 4 banger is relative to how ' bad' the GM 4 banger is.
It is plenty torquey and smooth (the i-Vtec makes it a very flexible engine) - at least as smooth as the 3500/3900 in the GM cars; I'd probably disagree about the 3.6 "High Feature" in the Aura/Malibu, and don't have enough experience with the new-ish 3.5L Duratec to honestly say.
HID and NAV are two luxury items. Which means they are not necessities. Why would you create more combinations simply to offer them exclusive of each other? To keep it simple, think about just one engine, two transmission, five exterior colors and five interior colors. How many combinations can you imagine from just this? Now, consider features, and how many do you end up with?
This is why automakers prefer to bundle options. Some do it in simple packages (Honda's DX, LX, EX, EX-L trim levels) and some "allow" a build your own option. However, the latter rarely allows customization. You're still led to a package. Try building an Altima 3.5SE/CVT. It starts at $25,205 (MSRP+Destination).
Next, you're offered stability control as a $900 option. Add it... what happens? You're forced to buying Tech Package which takes the price tag to $32,305. This happens because even with build you own, you are basically getting a package.
"Fewer parts, reduced complexity"? Not if someone has to deal with a integrated Nav system just to play a CD. "Increased reliability"? I doubt that too, especially when said Nav system breaks down, and takes out the radio with it.
Not quite. In case of Honda/Acura NAV systems, you get voice (and touchscreen in some cases) to control audio/AC etc. But these functions are available separately as well. You are not forced into using NAV for it.
Besides, if one is wary of NAV system breaking down, no luxury item is worth considering. Including HID. If I have to replace halogen bulbs in my Accord, it costs $12 or so. If I had to replace HID out of warranty, I wouldn't bet on it costing that little. But thats part of opting for "luxury" features.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between NAV and non-NAV models, especially since the screen has been moved out from the main cluster. In fact, you couldn't tell the difference if the NAV wasn't lit.
Just picked up a 4cyl, 6speed manual Altima today to replace our 250,000 mile, 4cyl, manual tranny G20.
If a carmaker refused to offer simple, roomy, well-made sedans like this with simple engines & three pedals (GM...are you paying attention??), we won't give them the time of day.
175hp routed through a clutch & 6 gears is plenty for me (but then I grew up driving VW vans, diesel Rabbits & 36hp Honda 600 hatches :P ).
I'm enjoying the discussions here.
Who else here is a gearbox retro-grouch that refuses to cave to the slushbox onslaught :confuse: ?
What's "luxury" to you is a "necessity" to somebody else. What if someone wants HIDs (a "necessity") WITHOUT the Nav (a "luxury")?
Well, let's see - they both have the same number of cylinders, spark plugs, camshafts, valves etc. - there is more that goes into good engines then what the specsheets tell you.