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2008 Minivans

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Comments

  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    Spy photo spotted (within the last 3 months, in California) a Honda Stream. Any indication if this mini-minivan is coming to market in USA & Canada? It looks to be the size similar to a Madza 5.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 5 has been a success and Kia saw fit to bring the Rondo, so I do hope the segment expands.

    The Dodge warranty does require a powertrain inspection every 5 years. That's really not a big deal, and I'm sure it's just to ensure that people have their transmission serviced and all the fluids serviced.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Solid review.

    The 2nd row windows open, and I love that the seats can face out for the parent to fasten the kid's seatbelts.

    Also glad to hear they're more comfortable than the current Stow-n-Go seats.

    Sirius TV? Cool.

    Mileage is using 2008 standards, but still 1 mpg city and highway behind the Sienna and Ody with VCM. They tie the Odyssey without VCM.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Swivel seats came as a result of an "ethnographic" research project Chrysler began three years ago. Researchers followed 30 families around in their daily lives in search of ideas for the new minivan. The eureka moment came when researchers noticed that families, and children in particular, spent a lot of time around the kitchen table interacting.

    You know what's funny? We were one of those families.

    Seriously, they flew out a couple of ladies from Detroit and they spent a day with us at our house, watching how we interacted.

    I think by then the design was already set, but they probably used our input to decide how to market the feature.

    We were paid a nice sum for our time. Thanks Chrysler! :shades:

    We couldn't wait, though, and bought our van back in May.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter is interested in speaking with anyone currently considering purchasing a 2008 minivan. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by 1pm Eastern on Monday, August 6 with your daytime contact information.
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    Swivel seats.

    I once owned a 1982 Ford E150 'full size' van which came from the factory 'stripped' and then "TripleE" put in a travel van conversion. This van had 4 caption chairs that swivel 360degrees, as well as folded perfectly horizontal (for sleeping), a portable table that fitted in the floor between a rear bench and the middle caption chairs (or between the 4 chairs). The rear bench could be folded down to make a queen size bed.
    Chevrolet 'full size vans' had a similar conversion.

    The 2008 Chrysler minivans are not the first to have the swivel feature.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I think the key is "MINIVAN" firsts, as Chrysler is always referring to i.e...dual sliding doors, airbags, 6 spd auto etc...
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    I think the key is "MINIVAN" firsts, as Chrysler is always...........

    I think if you check 'world' histories on the minivan you will find others that outdone Chrysler awhile ago.

    Take, for instance, The Honda Odyssey that is produced in Japan and areas outside of NA. This smaller Odyssey has a wheelerchair edition that moves the driver's seat from inside to outside the van and at the same time moves a wheelchair from the inside rear to meet the driver's seat.

    The rear bench in the 1999 Odyssey was the 1st NA minvan to offer the fold-in-the-floor.

    1963 Austin Mini
    1965 Morris 1100
    1967 Plymouth Valiant 2-door sedan - large slant-6
    1972 Datsun 510 automatic
    1979 Mercury Zephyr 4-door sedan
    1982 Customized 'TripleE' travel van (Ford E150 351 V8)
    1987 Ford Mustang 6 {wife's car)
    1992 Ford Taurus long-stroke (industructable) V6
    2002 Honda Odyssey EX (currently 175,000 kilometers)
    :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    1963 Austin Mini
    1965 Morris 1100
    1967 Plymouth Valiant 2-door sedan - large slant-6
    1972 Datsun 510 automatic
    1979 Mercury Zephyr 4-door sedan
    1982 Customized 'TripleE' travel van (Ford E150 351 V8)
    1987 Ford Mustang 6 {wife's car)
    1992 Ford Taurus long-stroke (industructable) V6
    2002 Honda Odyssey EX (currently 175,000 kilometers)

    Wow did you confuse me first thing this morning. I was wondering what "first" all these cars had to offer??? But you own all these???? OMG

    I'm referring to mainstream firsts, not niche market, low volume products. I dated a guy who had same wheelchair feature built into his Winstar minivan - from London Ontario :)
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    Yes, I owned all those vehicles.
    I live in Guelph, Ontario
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nice link, can't beat videos for showing you the neat features.

    I noticed a couple of things, though.

    He's a big guy and doesn't fit well in that swivel seat. His knees are way too high because the seat cushion is too close to the ground. So they made some compromises in comfort there.

    Also, 3rd row power seats are very neat, but Toyota has that on the current Sienna, years ago actually, so that's not new.

    Shouldn't matter - kids are usually in the 2nd row, and families are going to buy these up and fast.
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    When I was originally looking for a 2002 new minivan I test drove and sat in the middle seats. I found my knees too high in the Chrysler, Ford, Chrevolet & Pontiac. Another problem was the front seats cut under your thighs, cutting circulation in the Chrysler, Ford, Chrevolet & Pontiac. The Mazda & Honda mid seats gave you lots of leg height so my knees were level. I found in long trips my legs don't get tired. With only 4 stops in May 2005 I drove from London, Ontario to Walnut Ridge, Arkansas in 16 hours. This is one of the many reasons I purchased the Honda Odyssey.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Smart way to shop, test fitting them all, that is.

    We hit the car show. Took the kids with us. We all sat in every model we were considering at least twice.

    It's pretty democratic that way. Eveyybody's comfortable, then green light to buy.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Based on short test drives, the Odyssey has THE MOST comfortable seats for me.
    Sadly, the VERY comfortable Sienna driver's seat caused me to neglect a test ride in the OTHER seats of the Sienna. The front passenger seat and the 2nd row seats of my Sienna are NOT comfortable for me for a very long distance. Ironic, because the 2002 T&C LX driver's seat was NOT comfortable but ALL the other seats were very comfortable.
    I can NOT ride very far as a passenger in my 2006 Sienna LE because of uncomfortable seats. My 2006 Sienna LE also lacks the 2002 T&C LX controlled ride on winding roads. :sick:
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    I guess they decided to jump on the bandwagon since Toyota beat them to it! When I decided to lease my CE in July, one of the reasons why was the lifetime warranty the dealership was offering. At least one dealership in Columbia, South Carolina offers it, and the one in Florence, South Carolina, where I got mine, offers it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You've mentioned that before, and it seems strange to me. I don't notice an appreciable difference in seat comfort from the driver to the passenger seat. Mine is an 07, though.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Does your 2007 Sienna have leather seats? Mine are cloth.

    Have you sat in the front passenger seat or 2nd row bucket seats for 2 hours and 150 miles at one time?

    I'll ask my friendly Toyota dealer if seats were redesigned for 2007 when I get the oil and oil filter changed.

    I think it is remarkable that the 07 Sienna 3.5L has the same EPA fuel economy ratings when the 3.5L has so much more power than the 3.3L in the 06. :shades:
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I saw the T&C video too, and the auto 3rd row seems like a joke to me. It's faster just do to it manually and you won't have to worry about the automatic mechanism breaking down the road. But then I feel the same way about the automatic sliding doors on minivans.

    And it's really a joke when the use the example of a woman with a bunch of bags in each hand who "needs" the automatic folding feature. I don't think I've ever seen anyone coming out of Walmart or a grocery store with arms full. Everyone is just pushing a shopping cart to their car.

    The Odyssey sliding door is very easy to open/close manually and much faster to use.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We have cloth as well. Brochure just calls it "LE fabric", it's a velvetty texture. I like it.

    I usually drive, but the wife loves the seat, in fact she falls asleep more often than not. We own a beach condo and have been there 3 times in the van, so 6 trips, 3 hours each so far.

    She drove half of one of those trips, so I was in the seat for a little over an hour. No complaints so far.

    Any how, we are all shaped differently.

    Example: people RAVE about how great the Lancer EVO seats are, well I can't even FIT in them to save my life! They offer great side support if you're narrow enough to squeeze inside them, I suppose! :D
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    You summarized it very well saying we are all shaped differently. Our 2nd daughter thinks the 2nd row bucket seats in our Sienna are UNCOMFORTABLE. She thinks the 2nd row Quad seats in her 99 GC SE and the 2nd row seats of our former 02 T&C LX are much better ( And I feel the same ).

    I also ride in a 2001 Ody EX frequently. I feel ALL seats of the 01 Ody EX are THE MOST COMFORTABLE seats of any vehicle....and I sit in all vehicles at the Annual Auto Show.

    Everyone else thinks all the Sienna seats are comfortable. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Is she too big for a booster seat?

    One way we got around the lack of captain's chairs on the 8 passenger model was to get boosters that had armrests. The booster even has built-in cup holders and a light on each side.

    So there's an idea, if she'd fit.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Sorry that I forgot to write our 2nd daughter is in her 30's and has children ages 12 and 10 years old.

    Our daughter has LOVED the built in child seat in the passenger side Quad of her 99 GC SE and prefers it to ANY child seat or booster seat on the market. (Her 2 sisters don't like the GC/T&C built in child seats).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh, gotcha.

    Built-in boosters are awesome, I wish more manufacturers offered them. Volvo has them on the V70, Subaru had them on the Outback but only for one single model year.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, fitzmall.com makes it easy. They sell Dodge and Toyota, new and used. We're talking about the same exact dealership here.

    New Sienna LE pkg 2, $23,445
    Used Sienna, 2006, 30k miles, LE pkg 1, $20,977-20,995.

    New Dodge GC SXT, $22,045
    Used GC, 2006, 30k miles, $14,837

    So you save $1400 up front, that's good.

    A year later, though, with the same mileage, you lose $6000 more. Ouch.

    Net, you're losing about $4600 more buying the Dodge after just one year.

    I realize this is dealer pricing, and perhaps your Sienna would only bring in $19k, but then a Dodge van would only bring in $13-14k.

    It's a buyer's market for vans, is why.
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    You did not give pricing for the Odyssey vs the others.

    In Canada a dealer sells only Toyota not both a Dodge & Toyota. The same goes for other manufacturers. Honda only sells Honda. Chrysler only sells Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge and any other Chrysler product. ETC. What's in their used section is a different story.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Noone asked for Ody pricing, the topic didn't even come up until now. hansienna was complaining about Sienna resale and someone else was guessing at a residual for a Caravan.

    Fitzgerald Automall has several brands, but Honda isn't one of them.

    Let's see, though, Koons Honda isn't far away, and they do no-haggle pricing on new Odys. They have several new EX models for $27,584 (including freight and fees).

    They have one used 2006 Ody EX, 14k miles, for $24,995. That has very low miles, the Toyota and Dodge both had 30k miles, so it might be closer to $24k if it had similar miles to the others.

    I used EX because they don't have any used LXs for sale.

    Any how, this is just one example, but depreciation is well controlled, similar to Toyota's.
  • neile457neile457 Member Posts: 65
    Of course your numbers depend on where you are. We just bought a 07 T&C, and here's what I saw in pricing.

    New Sienna LE pkg 2 (I looked at 2), and couldn't get it lower than $24K, but the lowest was 24100.
    Used 2006 Sienna LE (not sure what pkg), 21k miles, $18200

    New T&C Touring (what I bought), 22.5K
    Used 2006 T&C Touring, 15K miles, 17,750

    New Honda EXL (BIL bought), 32K
    Used 2007 Honda EXL, 28k miles, $24,750

    So, with these examples, the Chrysler held more value $ and %. Kind of goes against the majority on this one! I thought it was crazy, also.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    You should take at least $10k off MSRP of a 2007 DGC SXT or T&C Touring. Heck, I got $11k off in March on my T&C Signature Series. Buy yourself a one-way ticket to Detroit and drive it home. I read Sunday's newspaper with ads for $16k DGC SXT's with MSRP of $28.5k. Selection is low as porduction stopepd a few months ago to get ready for the redesigned 2008 models.
  • neile457neile457 Member Posts: 65
    Again, I think it depends on where you live. I got it for 8K off sticker, which seemed in line with carsdirect, 2 other dealers, and edmunds.com. But again, what is the resale values of all the vans where you live.
  • mmcnamarammcnamara Member Posts: 27
    Would you mind telling me the names of some of these dealers who you've seen the ads for? I'm located in northwestern Ohio and would be willing to drive for a this kind of bargain, but I've been unable to figure out a way to see the actual ads in the newspapers. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    I got my 2007 Signature Series T&C from Szott CJ:

    http://www.fivestardealers.com/szott/Chrysler/en_us/website?adid=u&pid=u&daaXmlP- ath=&bid=&rid=u

    I got a quote of $14391 out the door (MI 6% Sales tax included) for a 2007 T&C Base model with popular equipment group (MSRP ~$23.5k) from Rochester Hills CJ:

    http://www.fivestardealers.com/rochesterhills/Chrysler/en_us/website?adid=u&pid=- u&daaXmlPath=&bid=&rid=u

    My brother leased a 2006 T&C Touring through Livonia CJ:

    http://www.fivestardealers.com/livonia/Chrysler/en_us/website?adid=u&pid=u&daaXm- lPath=&bid=&rid=u

    I subscribe to the Sunday Oakland Press, but the Detroit News may be availible depending on exactly where you live in OH. I can try to scan an ad this weekend.
  • neile457neile457 Member Posts: 65
    wow!!!!!

    Look at those low prices!!!!

    Wait a minute, I didn't see em!

    Oh yeah, btw, I noticed the first dealer had a 06 used for $20500. :blush:
  • tsu670tsu670 Member Posts: 293
    To answer my own question posted July 23rd, I just read in the newspaper this morning that Chrysler started production this week (August 20th) of their new 2008 minivans.
  • mmcnamarammcnamara Member Posts: 27
    Hey, thanks for the links. I called several of the dealerships about some of these bargains, but they didn't quite pan out. As mentioned, the selection was very limited, and interestly enough, the sales were limited to state residents, not out-of-towners (citing incentive and tax reasons). Oh well, the wife's '97 T&C is still running like a champ, so I'm not too desperate. Thanks again, though.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    If your comparing 2008 model minivans, you'd better slide the Chrysler/Dodge vans way up there. The is nothing cheap looking about them.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    New Dodge GC SXT, $22,045
    Used GC, 2006, 30k miles, $14,837

    So you save $1400 up front, that's good.

    A year later, though, with the same mileage, you lose $6000 more. Ouch.

    Net, you're losing about $4600 more buying the Dodge after just one year.

    I realize this is dealer pricing, and perhaps your Sienna would only bring in $19k, but then a Dodge van would only bring in $13-14k.

    It's a buyer's market for vans, is why.


    Your pretty close on the pricing and resale value. But with the Dodge GC SXT, you get the over head console, with temp. compass, fuel, garage door opener. You also get power side and rear doors. Features you can't get on the Sienna, unless you pay around $30,000 or more. If your going to keep your van for 4,5,or six years, resale won't enter the picture that much. But those extra features are really nice.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nope, my LE has a trip computer, temp gauge, compass, garage door opener, and power sliding doors on both sides and only cost $25k, not $30k. The only thing you listed I don't have is the power rear tailgate, and even then there is a power assist to close the latch, all you have to do it drop it.

    And with Dodge you trade that off for a lot less power and 2nd row windows that don't open, plus an older design that is about to be replaced.

    neile457: useful additional data, but note that the Dodge had about half as many miles as the Honda. That's not really a fair comparison.

    aaron_t: I did not use MSRP, I used the no-haggle street prices around me. Those include all discounts and rebates, and represent a real-world price in the Mid-Atlantic region.

    I do agree with you, MSRP is meaningless.

    The lesson here is that used vans can be a real bargain. Even 1 year old vans can be had in some regions for a lot less than new.

    One big factor for me was the 2007 Sienna got a much more powerful engine that I wanted. So to me, a 2006 was worth less, 40 plus horsepower worth.

    Same for the 08 Dodge, by the way, which is much improved. The interior looks too Caliber-ish to me, but I'll reserve final judgement until I can touch and feel it in person.
  • toronado455toronado455 Member Posts: 83
    Spy photo spotted (within the last 3 months, in California) a Honda Stream. Any indication if this mini-minivan is coming to market in USA & Canada? It looks to be the size similar to a Madza 5.

    Looks like the answer is "YES". :)

    http://news.windingroad.com/countriesmarkets/japan/japan-report-honda-stream-hea- ded-to-us-in-2009/
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Nice link to an excellent article. The Honda Stream will definitely appeal to many people.

    However, without sliding side doors, the vehicle is NOT a minivan but is a station wagon, tall station wagon, or to distort the situation even more, with AWD it is an SUV (thanks to Subaru's definition). :sick:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Stream looks great. It would be the sharpest looking entry in this small segment.

    The Mazda5 and Rondo are the others.

    Sliding doors or no, these are all similarly sized and priced, and will surely be cross-shopped.

    Yet another entry will be the Dodge Journey:

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122333
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I believe that the Journey will be as large as a full size minivan.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Agree with ateixeira: Stream would be the most attractive.

    One word for the Dodge Journey: UGLY :sick:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The interior leaves much to be desired, but it's not that bad. The beer cooler is innovative.

    It's based on the Stratus so it should be mid-sized, not full size. Vans are about 200-205" long while the Stratus is 191" long.

    Plus, Stratus prices are a lot lower than Grand Caravan prices. The non-Grands will be gone, plus no more AWD.
  • toronado455toronado455 Member Posts: 83
    Nice link to an excellent article. The Honda Stream will definitely appeal to many people.

    However, without sliding side doors, the vehicle is NOT a minivan but is a station wagon, tall station wagon, or to distort the situation even more, with AWD it is an SUV (thanks to Subaru's definition).


    Does that also mean that the first Honda Odyssey wasn't a minivan because it had no sliding doors?

    What about the Mitsubishi Expo, and Colt Vista? Would you say that the Expo LRV, which was shorter than the Expo but had sliding doors was a minivan?

    Clearly not all vehicles fit neatly into categories. And the definition of "minivan" has changed over time as the minivans have gotten larger and larger.

    I like to use the term "microvan" or compact MPV for these smaller, tall, long wagon type of vehicles - with or without sliding doors and with or without 3rd seat options.

    I'd say they can be safely distinguished from SUVs (even small SUVs like the Forester) due to lower ground clearance and hence greater interior space utilization.
  • toronado455toronado455 Member Posts: 83
    Hmmm. Although I like the exterior looks alright, the Journey looks more SUVish to me. The center stack in the interior looks to be space-hogging. Radio looks to be double-din but placement at the bottom is horrible. Imagine trying to read a nav screen there. Who designs these things?

    I do like the idea of getting rid of the non-Grand Caravans and coming in with a microvan in it's place. But from looking at the Journey, they clearly don't want to build anything that could possibly have "van" associated with it. "Crossover" is the where they feel the market is.
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    Well, actually the REAL current NA (North American build) Odyssey seems to be based on the Elysion model in Japan. See: http://www.batfa.com/newcar-hondaelysion.htm

    The Japanese Odyssey has 4 doors that do not slide.

    The NA Odyssey in 1999-2004 was sold in Japan as 'La Great' and looks the same as the NA one did did.

    If you use you logic the Mazda9, I believe is considered by the industry as a mini-van although I would say it proably fits as a mico-mini-van, about the same size as the Stream.
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