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Acura TL 2009

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Comments

  • mrmarcomrmarco Member Posts: 1
    Just bought a new '10 SH-AWD HPT Tech. My wife and I already have an RDX and Accord. We drove the Cadillac CTS, Influnkity G, and BMW 335i X. When comparing these bad boys the Bimmer was a top pick, Caddy a close third, and the G flunked with a nasty rattle and problematic tranny???? Overall the choice was easy, dollar for dollar the Acura TL sold itself. My Honda HRC216 mower starts on the first pull also.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Member Posts: 106
    I agree with why you went for the TL SH-AWD, and I am within a few days of getting the same car you did, just a different color. Palladium Metalic.. I have found this color to be the best compliment to the front Nose Style of the TL. Due to the Chrome Front and Palladium paint, the nose contrast is Greatly Reduced, and what some might find objectionable, just goes away IMHO... OPEN QUESTION,, what does it cost, good price, for a 10 year-100K extended warranty, $100 deductable.. I have heard lows of $1500 and high of $2500.. Any feedback would be appreciated...
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Member Posts: 106
    OH, same car but not with the HPT.. I was told that when you get the HPT you also get a stiffer suspension and the ride is a bit more firm then the stock SH-AWD WITHOUT HPT.. Is that correct?
  • bampbamp Member Posts: 4
    I purchased a 2010 TL Tech package and after using the car for a few weeks I started hearing noises from the back seat, after taking it to the dealer they told me the noise is coming from the gas tank. It was the fuel moving around apparently they used a bigger tank in the newer TL's which makes this type of noise and they class it as a characteristic of the vehicle, I called Acura and they told me the something there is on fix for this problem. Which blows my mind I paid over 40k for this car and not only do I hear road noise but also the gas moving in the tank what can a person do about this the dealer and Acura is stating all of the new TL's have this same noise can they actually get away with something like this. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Is there anything you don't particularly like about your TL?
  • ChasboyChasboy Member Posts: 186
    The only thing I don't like is that I don't drive it any minute of the day. Even if I try to nitpick, none of the nits or picks are worth talking about. As for size, it is SO nice go out with friends and not feel apologetic about cramping them in the rear of the 325. -4 full size adults and everyone comfortable.
    As for the grill, there is a full chrome one with a matching rear piece for the trunk available. I saw the setup on a black one and it was very nice. One reason we chose the white was also due to lower 'contrastiness" with all of the trim.
    The noise from the gas tank is unacceptable in any passenger car. In a simple vehicle like my Element or going back many years, my 1978 IHC Scout 2, it could be tolerated, yet I have never heard anything in the Element. Acura needs to redesign the gas tank with more baffles to prevent the sloshing noise from entering the passenger compartment.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Member Posts: 106
    I have had my 2010 TL,Tech SH-AWD for about 3 weeks now. 632 Miles. Yesterday I drove from San Diego to Borrego Springs (Desert). About a 2 hour trip. You have to climb over the mountains on back winding roads and then you descend down into the Desert Valley. Spring Wild Flower Time! I just can’t find anything wrong with this automobile. I DO NOT hear any gas tank noise, even when my wife drives the car and I sat in the back. I normally never let it get below ½ tank of gas. I had to pass a few cars along the way and hit about 100 MPH as I sped by that Honda Accord! The best way to describe the AWD is that, it is like the car was on a set of railroad tracks. It just hugs the road and you don’t feel like the tires are going to break loose. I have about 20 CD recorded on the HDD. I have memorized about 50% of the voice commands and can do most critical things now all by voice. Have a picture of the Granddaughter as Clip Art for the Nav Screen. My wife drives a 2009 TSX, and the cars have no real comparison, the TL is just that much better in every aspect, well she does get 31 MPG on my Trip yesterday I got 23.2 MPG… When driving to work I have people beep their horn and give me a Thumbs Up on the car. I think the styling is just phenomenal! My commute to work is about 20 minutes, and I wish it was more like an hour as the car is just fun to drive… BTW, when I was descending down from 4000 feet, I used the shift paddles to not have to use the brakes, worked flawlessly. My Honda Pilot will now become my weekend vehicle for that trip to home depot or when family visits from out of town. My 1995 Nissan Quest, 148K is being sold… One last comment, I just received the 1000 Pages of Electrical and Mechanical books from HELM Corporation. Being an engineer, I just like to understand how it all works… :):):)
  • jvettejvette Member Posts: 70
    I agree with all the above. Great car and I think the styling looks great.
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    One thing I dislike is the global solor sensor, I think half the time it adjust the temperture incorrectly in the car-its either too hot or too cold.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Member Posts: 106
    What I do is first hit Auto Temperature for the driver and the passenger. Then I hit the internal air circulation only. I find more control keeping outside Smelly Air out of the car. With the Navigation doing the rest, I find that setting it at 70 keeps the car near perfect for me and the wife.. Going up to 72 or down to 68 is all the range control I need. Part of this may be that San Diego, Ca. is not a place know for its extreme weather, but it has been in the 40" last month and today it hit 79 degrees and the TL does a fine job keeping me nice and cozy. I never wear a jacket in the car, just a short sleeve shirt.
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    I am in the North East (CT) and on some cold mornings I would set it 70 degrees and the Fan speed at 2. I tend to feel cold at this settings and I have to up the thermostat to around 70. As for the re-circulating air, I only use that when the AC is on.The manual actual tells you its best to have the vents open for the fresh air to come in.On a different note, the car is stellar in every other aspects.
  • ChasboyChasboy Member Posts: 186
    Billy, remember that setting the thermostat at 70 degrees does not mean that the air you feel once it hits you is at 70 anymore. I am rarely comfortable at that setting unless I am warmed up at a higher temp.
    I also find that in the recirculate mode, if I forget to change it, after awhile the windows start to fog since the interior air keeps getting more humid. This happens pretty dramatically in my Element.
    We are closing in on 10k miles, and I don't know where the miles have gone, and of course want this wonderful car to run forever!
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    Wow, 10k already? tomorrow makes 7 months of ownership for me and I only have 3k.I am planning to buy a used RSX (maybe the Type S) this summer just to drive around town, but the prices are still kind of high for 2004-2006 model year. I saw one on the internet in Colorado listed for 3,500 but the mileage is up there.
  • jtlajtla Member Posts: 388
    No offense, but if you only put 3k miles in 7 months, what/why do you save the TL SH-AWD for?
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    Saving it for my 10 year old daughter- just kidding. I actually want this car to last a long time, I just dont want to go through the hassle of car buying for another 10 plus years (when I am in my forties).I do think however that I might do several road trips this summer and by the way, I commute to work via train.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Member Posts: 106
    When I took my Art class in collage Many years ago, we were told that you have only two types of lines, a straight line and a curved line. The combination of both together is almost infinite in numbers. After owning the TL SH-AWD for a month, nothing has changed from my initial impression when I first saw this car 1 year ago, wow, it sure is beautiful!

    As you move around the car the lines change and curved meets straight. The front grill is a perfect example of curved meets straight, but it does it in a way that draws you to the very front! I also learned that the colors of these straight and curve lines can also influence the way the BRAIN rationalizes the combination. So when I picked Palladium as my Color choice, I did it as it minimized the Contract between the paint and the front Grill. I also think Black or White are the other two colors that work this way.

    My car has been seen by most of my friends; dozen of co-workers and folks walking past it when parked near the Hotel Del on Coronado, San Diego, Ca. Not a single BAD thing said, only complements, and a lot of fingerprints from folks stopping and looking in the window. As with any car design, subjectivity is always going to be a factor, and each persons Brain deals with curved and straight lines differently. That is why one Oil Painting may draw one person in, and another may turn the person off!

    The Acura TL design is different, more futuristic, and for some requires a bit of time to figure it all out, but for me it was love at First Sight!     ;) :surprise: :)
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    every other post from the new TL owners is the same-- "contrast with the grill" or something that indicates they bought a car they think is OK- but still not sure about the look --- technology great, power great, service great-- but not sure about the style. I own a G35x 2007-- and considered the 07 TL-- (real reason i bot the infiniti was AWD (with rear bias) and power-.) - last generation TL real looker this new TL is a DOG and its to bad because they did a nice job adding AWD and power..now they should recall the car for bad styling.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Member Posts: 106
    Today my wife and I spent about 3 hours in Los Angeles in preparation for the big LA Marathon on Sunday! Had the TL parked in a space near the registration area for the entire time. Had a few lounge chairs out and I would guess over 1000 people walked right past the FRONT of my TL, SH-AWD Paladium.. Yes a few folks said , "that looks strange", but the VAST MAJORITY were nothing but compliments, from is that a new Acura, never seen this car before, I like the way it looks, Look at the wheels, I love the Color was a big compliment. If this is a Turn Off design, well at least not for the majority of the 1000 people who walked past it... A few wanted to see the inside, one nice fellow wanted to see under the hood... I think the thing I never thought about was the rear dual exhaust, and the way it is part of the rear styling and they are BIG. Most folks honestly thought it was a V8, because why would they put such large exhaust on the car.. interesting observation.. ;););)
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited March 2010
    Of the 1000 people how many were the vast majority? if a few folks said "that looks strange" how many do you think didnt say it -but were thinking it ?? a recall is needed.

    good luck in the marathon
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    rlonn....good luck in the marathon.

    I went through the whole Infiniti Gx(s) vs the TL SH AWD. I kept coming back to the Acura because of its bold styling, in and out. While the G's interior is nice, the Acura's interior was s step above, IMHO.

    I liked the exterior styling from the "get go". It's expressive. That suits me. I also found the sport seats in the SH AWD TL to be better than the sport seats in the G37 (at least in the "s" version) which were very uncomfortable for me. And, I'm not a big guy, either.

    I found the G's styling to be.....hmmmm.....what are the best words? "middle-of-the-road", maybe? I could say the same thing about the Chevy Malibu, though.

    In short, they're both good cars. I just preferred the Acura, for a variety of reasons. And to me, that's all that really matters.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • jtlajtla Member Posts: 388
    graphicguy, congratulation on the TL SH-AWD! Did you get the color combo you like?

    As you said, both the TL and the G37 are great cars in this segment. At the end of the day, it is all about personal preference. I knew you were going to pick the TL.;) And you probably also had a feeling that I would go with the G37. Well, I have indeed and couldn't be happier. :)

    Enjoy the ride! :shades:
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    jtla...thanks!

    You and I spoke about both cars, at length. As you say, there's no bad choice between the G and TL.

    I had shopped, and shopped. Looking for the right color combo, in either car.

    I was always leaning towards the TL as I preferred the way it handled, and the way the seats felt. It came down to very slight advantages for me.

    Yeah....I did get the color combo I wanted....that is, black exterior (actually, it's called "crystal black pearl", which is black with metal flake of different colors embedded) and taupe interior (which is a gray/cream color).

    In short, there are no wrong choices in these two cars. Both are great. They both perform about the same....just in different ways. It comes down to subtle preferences.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edmunds wrote:

    http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g37/2009/comparison-test-2009-acura-tl-sh-awd- -vs-2009-infiniti-g37-journey.html

    Car and driver:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/2009_infiniti_g37_vs._bmw_3- 28i_audi_a4_and_acura_tl-comparison_tests

    and Ugly car website:
    http://www.cargurus.com/blog/2009/07/17/the-ugliest-cars-of-2009-and-2010

    Net net if your shopping for an acura TL (FWD) you should also check out buick LaCross, lex ES, and lincoln. (all better looking, front drive bias) The AWD is closer to audi A4 and VW passat. (all less powerful, but again better looking- front bias AWD starting around 40k)
    Acura lost me when they decided to enlarge the TL. Then the TSX moved up in size--then they decided to put a V6 into the TSX-- RL ? who would buy a car the same size as the lesser priced TL (with more power). The RDX has a cool 4cly engine but gets worse fuel economy then a larger TL- then they waste production time on the ZDX- -what is it?? why no coupe -- convertible--or hybrid??

    sorry for long ramble but the Acura TL needs to be recalled - all of you should demand a new grill and 3k back-- you were Bernie MADOFFed.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    sween....I know some of the 3rd generation faithful didn't like how the 4th generation of the TL had grown. But, I can see where Acura is going. Personally, t think the TL moved into the top spot for Acura. I know my Acura dealer rarely has more than one RL on his lot for sale. TL took its spot. The TSX moved into the slot of the 3rd gen TL (smaller, FWD, all the tech goodies).

    Once Acura cancelled (or at least delayed) their V8 engine program, the RL development kind of came to a stop.

    TL is what I've called a "tweener", occupying a slot right between a BMW 3 and 5 series, between an Audi A4 and A6. It handles great. It's fast. It's built very well. Has great resale. And, it's built as well (or better) than just about anything else within its price range. Plus, they're giving some really good deals on them right now.

    Styling is subjective. I really like the way it looks. It's certainly distinctive (which I like).

    I agree with you that the base TL is aimed smack dab at the ES 350, and cars of that ilk. It's a softer ride/drive.

    The SH AWD version is almost an entirely different animal though. Sharp reflexes, fluid steering, tenacious handling, without a punishing ride. It even makes nice sounds (especially when you wind it out).

    I liked the G, a lot. My biggest "dings" on it (and they were minor quibbles) were the seats, and the way the automatic transmission performed....it always seemed to be "flat footed" when I test drove it (3 times).

    In short, we buy what we like. I just liked the TL SH AWD better. It's a great car (just like the G).
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    edited March 2010
    There is a trainer in my Gym that has a G35X (Grey exterior) and him and I TRY to park next to each in parking lot to aviod getting dings for the unscrupulous.I have to admit, seeing the TL(white pearl) next to the G35X makes the (G35X) looks dated-OLD.Even the trainer admits that the TL takes the cake.Not trying to bash the G-it was on my short list while shopping last year, it came off when I test drove it-too cramp on the inside.It reminds me of my 99 Mazda Millenia and there were a few cosmetic things I did not like-one, the foglights are inserted with the headlights-a no no for me and a few others that did not suffice my taste.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    billy...what I've seen, the folks that don't like conservative styling, gravitate towards the TL. I'm one of those. I was one of the people who was ambivalent towards the conservative styling of the 3rd generation of the TL (even though I owned a 3G TL).

    Even the G's interior is much more conservative that the TL's interior.

    Again, no bad choices between the G vs the TL....just personal preferences. I think conservative leaning folks will lean towards the G. More expressive or edgier folks will appreciate the TL's look.

    Personally, I felt the TL SH AWD was more refined that the G37xs, too. Again, some like one direction, some like the other.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • proeproe Member Posts: 157
    edited March 2010
    When new TL came out with SH AWD, I said that is my next car.

    Dose any one of you think that Honda should have put 6sp auto instead of 5sp auto in TL SH AWD?

    Hoping they would put ZDX's 6sp auto in TL SH AWD in mid-cycle design change.

    I do think new TL style looks a lot better in person.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    pro.....I don't know what a 6-speed would net the TL. Maybe a little better MPG. Some say it would increase performance. I don't know, though. It depends how Acura would rework the gear ratios. And, if they made it more aggressive, would it negatively impact MPG. Conversely, would adding another ratio just for increased fuel efficiency, would it blunt performance? Would it be just another "overdrive type" additional ratio?

    Lots of questions, obviously.

    Generally speaking, most tests have the SH AWD version doing 0-60 in about the 5.5 sec range (without abusing the car). I've seen some in the high 5s, too. That's pretty fast. The 6-speed manual tests out around the low 5s. What would an extra gear net on performance? I dunno, maybe a tenth or two 0-60? Is that enough of a bump that you'd notice?

    How about fuel efficiency? Another gear ratio would possibly net another .3-.5 MPG, maybe? Is that sufficient enough to merit waiting? Again, I don't know.

    We've been talking a bit about the comparison of the TL vs the G. The Infiniti G uses a 7-speed automatic. Even with 7 gears, I found that the transmission could be caught napping when a gear or two kick down was needed. Something I've never found with my current TL.

    So, lots of unanswered questions.

    I like the 5 speed they currently use in the TL. It's quick to kick down. And, it's easy to keep in the power band.

    For me, it doesn't matter if there's 5 or 6 gears as long as it works well. I just don't think the difference is going to be all that significant if they do change the transmission.

    As soon as I saw the TL in person (at its launch last year at my local dealer, I was hooked. It's a stunning car.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • jtlajtla Member Posts: 388
    I think conservative leaning folks will lean towards the G. More expressive or edgier folks will appreciate the TL's look.

    Well, yes and no. I would be the first to admit that I am one of those "conservative-leaning folks". However, I really like the 4th gen TL exterior styling. In fact, I wish that Infiniti had gone a little bolder with their restyling of 2010 G. Although they did a good job to the Sport model front bumper, the rest of changes are just too subtle.

    As to the interior, I think the difference between G and TL is not a matter of conservativeness but their approach to functionality and ease of use. While both score high on these counts, I prefer the G's clean design over the TL's array of buttons.

    This may sound odd, but overall the single most deciding factor for me to rule against the TL was its size. At 195" in length and 74" in width, it is just too big a "sport sedan" for my taste. Had the TL come in 95% scale of its size, I might have gone with it. (Yeah, I also liked G's handling better, but I believe that it got to do with the physical dimensions, too.)
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited March 2010
    Hi all, I am not sure if this was the specific discussion to post this in so I thought why the heck not and see what a bunch of you guys think! I have a 08 TL, actually my second, after a 06 TL I had and there has been a lot of BS spread on a couple of luxury forums on here, namely the one that questions Hyundai ever becoming a luxury brand on the auto news tab, that Acura isn't really considered a luxury make like BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, and Infiniti are?

    I have been having to constantly defend all our honors because I personally feel this argument is ludicrous, and while Acura certainly doesn't have a luxury sport enthusiast background (ie the lack of a V8 with RWD model) that doesn't mean that they are not any less luxurious then the other 5 in all sense of the word "luxury"

    I've argued that except for sport performance/super crisp handling, Acura provides all the necessary characteristics of a luxury brand, such as high quality, proven reliability, above and beyond dealership/service experience, loaner cars, high reliability, great technology, and luxury creature comfort! all of which make it a luxury brand

    I'm sick of people trashing Acura like they are rebadged Honda's while I have test driven Honda's back to back with Acura's I can assure you they are not simply rebadged Honda's!!

    I wanted to get all you Acura owner and leasee thoughts on this subject and suggest you visit the luxury boards on edmunds and defend Acura's luxury status with a passion and tell all the rest of the luxury car owning community, especially the sport enthusiast community WHY AND WHAT makes Acura a luxury line!!

    I personally and tired of hearing from the BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus people that Acura is a "wannabe" or "pretend" luxury brand - their is more to luxury then V8/RWD don't you think???

    Look forward to hearing your posts!!!
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited March 2010
    I owned a 2000 acura integra GS_R a 4 cyl 170 hp coupe that changed the way people look at compact cars - and was the reason there is now a mazdaspeed, an evo, a WRX in the US market. Acura was bold with its style and performance and didnt care what LExus was doing. Now they have 3 SUV's - 3 sedans- no coupe, converts, or sports cars.-- the division needs some life quickly before it can be considered anything other then a comp for buick and lincoln.

    anyone know how many Tl's were sold in 2009 vs G 2009??

    http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/plushter77/EG_Grill1.jpg
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    I can tell you for sure- you will never get me to swap out my grill for that awful looking piece of mesh.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    smarty....I don't know that it really matters what others consider Acura. Plain and simple, it's Honda's luxury division, just like Lexus is to Toyota, or Infiniti is to Nissan.

    I've yet to meet anyone who hasn't believed that their Acura/Honda product wouldn't serve them well for 150K miles and above. I like the way they drive. I even like the way they sound when you really wind them up.

    Up until recently, I always felt that as good as they drive, they were fairly "ho hum" in their styling. That changed in the most recent iterations. They went bold. And I like that.

    Honda saves their best for Acura. Everything they've learned in racing, in development, all goes into the Acura lineup. IMHO, the best at what they do is in the TL.

    Their build quality rivals (and sometimes exceeds) any car brand I've ever experienced (that includes Audi, Benz and BMW). As far as coupes are concerned, there are really only a few that I'd consider....a Mustang, a Camaro, a Corvette, or a Porsche.

    If I truly worried about what others thought, I'd probably be in a Masserati, which is to me one of the most beautiful sedans on the road. But, I don't wory. I like what I like.

    I really like my TL (had a 3rd gen I liked, too).
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    billy, I'm with you on that grill picture. Not feeling that, at all.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited March 2010
    with that grill it looks exactly like the buick la cross -- something acura should now be targeting.
  • jtlajtla Member Posts: 388
    edited March 2010
    LOL, why would Acura "target" a Buick? :confuse: If anything from GM, it would be the Cadillac CTX, but I bet it is BMW 3/5-series, Audi A4/A6, and the likes that Acura has in mind.

    By the way, that after-market grille may belong to the '80s, but it can really cheapen modern cars.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited March 2010
    have you read my past posts- acura is now the new buick..
    ..CTS line of cars offer more excitement then the entire acura line-- wagon, coupe and super car (with a vette engine) -- your joking if you think audi and bmw are even looking at acura as a real competitor. Its a nice honda- with some cool technology but they are not drivers cars- its not a leader in any segment-- and its a shame because they had everything lexus had 10 years ago but are now an after thought.
  • jtlajtla Member Posts: 388
    Audi and BMW may or may not view Acura as a real competitor, but that does not keep Acura from targeting them as such. Incidentally, what you said is exactly my point: car makers aim high, not low. Therefore, it is less likely Acura would have Buick in mind as its target when designing the TL.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    jtla.....Where the TL competes (especially, the SH AWD version) is hotly contested....Cadillac, BMW, Audi, Infiniti etc. The base TL, as mentioned before, is probably targeted at the Lexus ES (which in turn, Buick has targeted with the LaCrosse).

    I saw the LaCrosse at the local car show about a month ago. Never driven one. But, I can say they did a nice job on it, just by sitting in it. And, you can see why they are doing their marketing towards stealing some Lexus ES buyers. Not my cup of tea, but apparently there's a broad market for the ES/LaCrosse.

    I can't really see someone who's shopping for a Lexus ES or Lacrosse shopping the TL, though. I think Acura people are looking for something more distinctive, and better handling.

    The TL base FWD and the SH AWD version are really two different cars (and two different markets). The SH AWD has a different personality. It's a great handling machine, yet offers a firmer ride that you'd get in an Infiniti G37xs, BMW 3, or Audi.

    Again, there are no bad choices. It was a tough one for me between the G and the TL. If the S version of the G had better seats (I'm 5'10", ~175 lbs), and I found them more comfortable, my decision would have been much tougher. The TL SH AWD and the G37xs are very close performance-wise. The Acura just fit me better.

    Plus, I really liked the TL's styling, too.

    No bad choices between the two.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    I agree with you to a point, I don't understand the point of Buick! they are trying to make it a full fledge luxury division but GM already has one, its called CADILLAC! I don't know why GM even kept Buick; if anything they should have gotten rid of Buick and kept Pontic and made that a exclusive sports division of GM, similar to Scion for Toyota - I think that would have made more sense!

    The reason why Acura is going to have to start worrying about Buick is, Buick is specifically trying to upscale their vehilces to compete with the TSX, IS for Lexus, and G for Infiniti! If you've read this months issue of Motortrend the new Regals for 2011 are suppose to be a Acura and Infiniti killer, according to Buick! I got a good laugh when I heard that!

    Infiniti must be concerned because I just read something the other say that they are thinking of bringing back a smaller entry level G20 below the G37 in order to compete with Buick better now that they have the new regal!

    Personally, I don't think Acura has much to worry about; the TSX is a great car and I would take it hands down over a Regal any day of the week!! If anything, Infiniti has more to worry about since they don't have any model that directly competes with the TSX, IS, or Regal! they most likely will have to introduce a turbo 4cyl into a G20 model!
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    smarty.....at first, when GM was axing brands, I thought Buick should go and Pontiac should stay. But, that didn't happen. Now Buick is nipping on Cadillac's and Lexus' heals.

    I can't make the connection between Buick and Acura, though. Buick is clearly aiming for Lexus....and probably the Regal will be cross shopped against the IS, just like the Lacrosse will be cross shopped with the Lexus ES.

    Anyone who's looking for that kind of isolated ride/steering/handling isn't going to be very pleased with an Infiniti G or an Acura TL or TSX.

    Infiniti is moving down market with the G25. Acura moved up market with the TSX (replacing the former 3rd generation TL) and the TL (moving up market against the German brands). I see the TL as kind of a "tweener", situated between an Infiniti G and M.....BMW 3 and 5, etc.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • jtlajtla Member Posts: 388
    Okay, guys, I probably should take another look at Buick. Yes, if we bring Lexus ES into the picture, then Buick La Crosse is one contender for the pie that Acura TL goes after. However, my earlier posts were more of from a Performance Sport Sedan point of view, and, frankly, Lexus and Buick rarely strike me as performance or sport.

    Speaking of Buick, I am afraid that it is going to have the same identity crisis as Mercury in the Ford family. At this point, GM seems to position Buick better than Ford with its Mercury. We will see how it plays out. I did read the article on MotorTrend, but really need to see and drive the cars to make me a believer.

    As to Infiniti, I am not sure whether a G25 will be the right answer for TSX or Regal. Sure, it will grab some of those shoppers, but it can also cut into its own G37 sales. Take Lexus IS for example; I see at least twice as many IS250 as IS350 on the road. Infiniti needs to play it cautiously.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    jtla.....honestly, if Buick wants to play in in the Lexus sandbox, more power to them. I agree with you, though. I can't see a Lexus buyer cross shopping either Infiniti or Acura. They offer handling that's well to the north of sporty for the buyers who would consider either Lexus or Buck more to their liking. Neither Buick nor Lexus is close to "sport", as the Infinitis and Acuras are. Probably never will be.

    I also concur, there's going to be some cross platform erosion between Cadillac and Buck, just like there is between Mercury and Ford, as you point out. Although, neither Buick, nor Mercury have the width and breadth of product offerings that their upscale stablemates do.

    I hope that the G25 works out for Infiniti. I like Infinitis overall. I think the size of the G lends itself better to the TSX to begin with. Again, still don't see Regal being cross shopped with either the G25, nor the TSX. Just like I can't make the connection from the G37 or TL to a LaCrosse.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    edited March 2010
    o boy
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    g25 is infinitis answer to lower end cars -- it will undercut the 328i in price and be a direct competitor against the TSX, A4 2.0, regal, lex IS Infiniti does not want to rebadge another FWD nissan car into its lineup.. here is a link-- and it will be very competitive or will crush its rivals. (depending on the engine they bring over)

    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/12/rumormill-2011-infiniti-g25-coming-with-turbo- charged-2-5-liter/

    I bet with a 6 speed it will be a pretty good rig- and its RWD something its comp (besides the IS) doest offer.

    Reason why buick is still around (and will take share from acura in the states) is CHINA-- th ese cars are loved by the locals --its a huge status symbol. Look it up.

    Acura is not close to "sport" either-- I mean they have one car with AWD and a 6 speed -which they have prob sold 100 of them-- the rest of the lineup is awd or auto fwd only-- the TLS or whatever its now called is a nice try but its a heavy large sedan that would get schooled by a bmw 535 or 335 -- for the money is not comparable to the performance of the G35x-- look at the reviews from all the car magazines or edmunds-- these guys drive cars for a living-- the TL nice safe car for a guy in his mid 40's - like a buick - or the ES.. sorry to all the owners who think they bought a 'sports' sedan because its a sheep (or an accord) in wildebeest clothing. :lemon:
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited March 2010
    don't get me wrong, I love Acura, on my second TL, but they are by no means anywhere close to Infiniti, BMW, or Audi in sport performance or handling department; the closest you can even get would be the TL AWD manual right now and even that came in forth place against the competition but that was without the manual though I don't think that alone would make much difference!

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/2009_infiniti_g37_vs._bmw_3- - 28i_audi_a4_and_acura_tl-comparison_tests/2009_acura_tl_sh-awd_page_2

    make sure you check out the results chart in the article for the specific numbers! personally, I think the TL, as it is right now is a great luxury car, with a cabin and ride designed a little more for the passengers then for the driver! I think it bridges the gap nicely between Lexus and Infiniti! its better in overall refinement!
  • jtlajtla Member Posts: 388
    Hmmm, a sub- $30k V6 RWD 4-door sport sedan? Maybe the Nissan Maxima should be worry.

    What? With a 300 lb-ft torque turbo-charged engine like the BMW 335i? Maybe Infiniti G37 should be worry.

    Like I said, Infiniti/Nissan has got to play this G25 idea very cautiously.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited March 2010
    jtla.....I think the G25 will be good for Infiniti. As others have said, it will give the TSX, A4, 328 some competition.....at a lower price point. Someone who really doesn't care about performance (like the IS250 customer) can get all the goodies of the G37, without the added cost.

    For whatever reason, the Maxima has never compelled me to give it much of a look. I know it's current iteration has left me kind of "cold" regarding its styling. Kind of "blah" when I've seen one on the road. But, perhaps it is good a budget G or M.

    People I know who drive the TSX....all say they love it. So, Acura hit at least someone's hot buttons with that car.

    From the ones I've spoken to, and those who drive the TL (SH AWD), love it, too. Myself included. The base TL, I'm sure appeals to those who don't care about sports sedan performance, per se. They just want something that drives nice, has all the tech goodies, and doesn't mind a little sport thrown in.

    It always seems to come down to the TL SH AWD, the A4 Quatro, or the G37x. Those seem to be the on the list for anyone looking in that general range.

    I know I also test drove the C300 4 matic, and the 335I xdrive. You start equipping them "like for like" with the TL (or the G) and you're going north of $50K pretty quickly, though. I don't see how the Benz competes with them, as it falls down in just about every category you'd like to compare against the G or the TL.

    The 335i, I see the appeal. But again, at what price? When you move into the 5 series (which is about the same size as the TL), the disparity only gets bigger.

    Anyway, nice discussion. Perhaps a few years down the road, I'll have to test drive the Lacrosse, or the Regal based on how highly some of you rate those two.
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  • proeproe Member Posts: 157
    edited March 2010
    Actually, TL SH AWD manual beats 335i and G37S in the lap time in this comparison and it has shortest stop distance with smallest rotor :surprise:.
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/index.php/tests/comparison/four-door-firepower

    It was only 1.1 secs behind S4 on the track. To me, Acura has done a wonderful job on TL.
  • ChasboyChasboy Member Posts: 186
    I agree completely. I also analyzed the dimensions a while back and found the TL to be called an 'almost' 5 series. One major reason I got it was I did not want to spend the $$$ for the 5 series room.
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