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While I'm not happy about the mileage, what really worries me is what will happen when the car becomes undriveable, which according to the man who clued me in on this when he saw what I was driving, as well as many other postings all over the internet, I can expect to happen soon, probably this summer.
Anyway, thanks for clarifying things. I just know how much gas I have, is the oil light on, is my car overheating, and what my mpg according to the indicator.
I am wondering if I will get a Voltage Converter recall notice. A former co-worker with the exact same car as mine just got one. I think she's hoping this will fix her mpg problem, which I assume she has - she wasn't clear on it in her e-mail.
I think she will be sorely disappointed.
One day, I will look at the you tube videos, etc., carefully to understand what my battery indicator is telling me so I can understand it.
Its all the states that follow California's CARB standards for the AT-PZEV rating. These are: Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Oregon, Washington, and Arizona, District of Columbia and Bernalillo County, New Mexico. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_emission_standard
1) There is an appearant drop off in MPG after 6 to 8 months - this is probably caused by the poorly designed/ defective IMA battery, which as is deteriorates provides less assist and decreasing MPG;
2) After about 14 to 20 months the IMA alert and Engine light will go on - this would indicate that the IMA battery has failed. Most people experience dangerously low acceleration rates (like running a go-cart on the highway on ramp). While the problem is that the battery is depleted, no good, garbage... Honda will say that it just needs a software upgrade and everything will be okay.
3) After software upgrade a variety of issues occur: MPG drops even further than before, especially for non-highway driving; the acceleration rate remains dangerously low; the IMA charging becomes extremely erratic with the battery periodically dropping to 2 or 3 bars and almost never going above 4 bars; Corresponding with this drop in battery charging is a decrease in the assist feature (which leads to the decreased MPG) and a decrease in IMA battery checking during deceleration and braking. But all of these symptoms, other than the MPG drop are subtle - Honda hopes you won't notice.
4) Calls to American Honda Corp get one of 3 responses: a) Yes, the software upgrade will decrease the efficiency of your vehicle but will save the IMA battery from early failure = you pay more for gas and Honda doesn't have to replace as many defective IMA batteries; or b) Honda will tell you that "the vehicle is operating as designed", which you obviously know is a lie because ... it isn't!! or c) Honda will not call you back at all. That is their latest response. You can talk to a front-line CS rep, but no supervisor will ever call you back.
Be careful out there Civic hybrid drivers. Let's not spend too much time looking at our dashboards and the screwy things our IMA indicators are doing. Right now, I've got to find a gas station -- I'm down to 30.4 miles per gallon. Thank you Honda!!!
That should have been never "above" 7 bars anymore, instead of "about"
I did file a complaint with the NHTSA, and they sent a follow up form. I made it clear on the form that the ONLY thing Honda did that fixed my problems was replace the battery. Good luck to you all - I know this is frustrating!
To any Honda Rep reading this thread: HONDA SUCKS!!! You are a disgusting company. I will tell EVERYONE I know about this situation, this thread of utter frustration and YOUR LIES!!!!!!!!!!
You may say is there really a battery problem? Yes. What is Honda's solution for this? replacing the battery under warranty? No! They created a software fix that reprograms the IMA battery software to preserve the battery by reducing the IMA assist. When you reduce the IMA assist, you reduce the available horsepower. When you reduce horsepower, you reduce miles per gallon. This process is partly alluded to in Bulletin 10A-034 page 2 which reads as follows:
"To ensure there’s plenty of power for engine
starting and accelerating from a stop, the IMA
system reserves more battery power. This
reduces the IMA assist as the vehicle speed
increases."
Here's one if your beginning your journey to get Honda to replace your battery: Don't go to the dealers service department without the IMA light on. In fact, if the IMA light is on go to Autozone and have them read the codes to ensure that code P0A7F is on. (They will actually print it on a piece of paper for you) That's the code for battery replacement. If you don't go there with this code on you will be charged $168 and a "thank you note for doing business here". If the code is on then the diagnostic is free because its related to a warrenty issue.
Second, have the service department write out a ticket and print it out for you. Make sure that it says they found code P0A7F and that it refers to battery degeneration (fancy for bad battery). Now its in their system.
Third, talk to the shop foreman about the issue. Document the conversation with time and date. Try to come to an agreement that this is a battery issue but you don't want the software upgrade. Tell him you understand that you understand Honda policy on this issue but at least have talked with him and you have notes.
Fourth, talk to the shop foreman's boss on the next trip to the dealer. Tell him that you would like to have your IMA battery replaced that the right code is available for battery replacement. Show him the work order ticket and tell him both you and the shop foreman both agree that the battery is under warranty and that it exhibits the correct code for battery replacement. Explain to him Bulletin 10-034 and that the software fix reduces the performance of the IMA engine assist and that this lowers your miles per gallon. Explain to him that you paid 25k for the car to get high mpg and will under no circumstances have the fix applied to your car. Don't argue with him. However, come to an agreement that at the very least that both of you agree that the battery needs replacement based on the code P0A7F. Remind him that this code means: Battery degeneration. Battery degeneration can ONLY be truly fixed by battery replacement not a software fix that reduces IMA engine performance based on BB 10A-034. Write a summary of the meeting and what he said.
(have to go but I'll be back)
But for now, I am pleased to say we won the IMA battery battle and will receive our battery replacement in 2 weeks - with NO software update!
Our Honda did the same thing as yours. We saw the up and down charging process but I just kept driving the car waiting for it to generate a code. They wanted me to get "the fix" but I knew if I did the fix, it would simply prolong battery degeneration and give them more time to give me the run around.
My advice is to keep driving the car until the IMA light comes on - and it will. I think Honda was surprised at how persistent I was. In addition, I really benefited from reading HCH owners experiences in this forum. I avoided a lot of mistakes that others had made in dealing with Honda. Moreover, my understanding of the issue greatly increased as well from reading the forum.
First since, I DID get the infamous software upgrade (or should we call it a "downgrade"), does that mean I am stuck with the lower mileage forever - whether I get a new battery or not? The Honda dealer did confirm the software upgrade can't be undone.
Second, how come I haven't gotten a DC to DC recall notice? My friend with the exact same car did!
your help would be greatly appreciated!
your car is under warranty. I would write a letter describing it, then make an appointment with your Honda dealer to have THEM fix it. Document everything!
You don't want to wait until it's too late like us poor 06/07 owners.
For the first 2000 miles I was getting 45-47 MPG, now now I am getting 38-40 MPG. Same story as multiple other people on this forum. Although everything is covered under the warranty, I am not getting the MPG I was sold..
This just goes to show that Honda remains uninterested in fixing this battery problem and it continues to show up in each new model year.
It says "the IMA system reserves more battery power" - that doesn't sound life threatening. But then it says "This REDUCES IMA ASSIST". What does that mean for miles per gallon. If the new software tells the IMA system to use less electricity, then the IMA system will not have full power. Without full power it will generate less horse power to move the car. If you have less horse power, then you get less miles per gallon. That's what is happening.
Now why did the light come on after a week? By the time the IMA light comes on, the battery is critcally weakened. It may have only 10% effeciency left. But since "the fix" told the system to use less energy, it gave the battery a little bit more time to avoid battery failure. That time frame seems to be about a week of driving.
Its possible to roll back "the fix" but I haven't had to argue about that issue since they agreed to replace my battery without the fix.
If you'r going to fight HOA on this you need to be working with the dealers Service Director and HOA's regional district representative.
What can you do? If you take it down to the dealer they will say you need "the fix" first. A week later, after the light comes on again, they will say you need a new battery. After they do that they will pray they will never hear from you again because they have "fixed" the issue. If you bring your car down again they have to say "we can't find an issue" or "your car is running just fine" - that will be $168 please diagnosis- thank you.
I suggest that you put on your army boots, and get into the ring and put up a defense. If you need some suggestions as to how to start the process let me know. Whatever happens dont let them apply the fix to your car. You can fight HOA and win.
I asked my Honda Dealer (the assistant Service Manager) if the fix could be "undone" and he said no. I called the Service Manager and said that HOA said I should get the low mileage "diagnosed". I said "so was I now expected to pay to find a problem that we know what it is?" He said I shouldn't have it "diagnosed". In other words, he knows what it is too. He was very rude and just told to me call 800 blah blah blah which I recognized as the HOA number.
So here's an update of my car. Once a week, the IMA and engine light will turn on...i tighten my gas tank cap and all is well two days later. I notice my battery is charging well, and my battery assist is doing great too. Haven't seen a decrease in mpg as well. Does this type of thing sound familiar? does this sound okay or is there something happening to the battery as time goes on and i'm not able to see it?
Thanks for everybody's advice! it's good to know that we're not alone in this.
Ed
To me it appears that they will try and prolong it as much as possible and change out as few batteries as they can get away with until warranties run out. Only the right type of successful class action lawsuit would cause a different outcome.
I want to "put on my army boots", but I could use some help on where to start. I think Honda is completely hosing us on this issue to save their own butts by not having to replace batteries that blow prior to the warranty period.
Any assistance would be appreciated!