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But either way, you should report to the AG of your state. They need to know that the 2006 - 2008 model year issue is still a problem in 2009 model.
Oh, and one more thing, ... HONDA SUCKS. Bought my first one in 1985 (red Prelude, great car), an Accord in 2000, and this piece of CRAP in 2009. NEVER AGAIN, HONDA!!!!! It's not nice to treat anyone this way, but certainly not repeat customers.
In the state of Washington we have 30 months to file a claim, and I believe the first unresolved visit must take place during that time. I have drafted a letter to American Honda Corp to be sent in two weeks if the fix has not been made. I am "demanding" an exchange for a vehicle of equal value and options (mine was loaded) but NOT a hybrid. I'm not holding my breath, but that is what is required by our lemon law. Then I have to allow 40 days for Honda to respond.
This very well could be our last purchase as well. I cannot work with a company that does not stand by their product.
I got my 2006 HCH back on Dec 29. Since my car was not starting, the dealer found a problem with my regular battery and replaced it under warranty (my car was 54,000 miles). The dealer also did a s/w update (It states something like Hybrid Reflash on my invoice).
Today i drove 200 miles on my 2006 HCH, and the experience has been good i must say. I took a long drive from Orange County to San diego on I-5 this afternoon, the car accerelated pretty well and gave a mileage of 44 miles per gallon. I am gonna to watch out how it will perform on the stop and go traffic since that I experience most of the time. My HCH gave just about 33 miles per gallon in stop and go traffic before the update. Will compare to see how it behaves after this update..
When I first had my problem, they blamed it on everything from my driving habits to putting stuff in my trunk for work. I got sick of it and just sued them.
Of course I won and they had to take the car back and I put a ton of miles on it. Fine with me since they treated me like crap. I will never buy another new Honda.
In court they tried to use the cover that MPG vary and that federal law preempts a car maker from being sued for any false claims regarding MPG. That is true, but that is not the point.
The point here is that something in the software is malfunctioning and that is covered as anything else woudl be. The fact that the malfunction relates to MPGs does not give them the right to hide behind the MPG law.
It did not work when I sued them.
They had to give me all my money back and pay off my loan.
Screw you Honda.
That is what I did after a year of excuses. There is something wrong with the software upgrade and Honda is trying to hide this so they don't have to do a recall.
You can sue them yourself throught the BBB. It's really easy and consumer friendly.
At the BBB WEBSITE, did you start with the complaint form?
Were you able to accomplish the suite entirely online?
Mine is the '07, 110,000 miles, and my car's performance dropped in the 3rd year, and then worsened with the update.
This sounds like a good candidate for a class action suit.
I took my car for maintenance last winter and they didn't mention anything about a software update. My batteries weren't malfunctioning at the time so maybe they didn't bother. My problem started in the last 6 months or so.
Unlike the people who are having problems with the software update, you have a Gen 1 Civic. It has not had this update issued because it is a very different car -no PTZEV mode, no AC during auto-stop, a smaller IMA battery, a lighter car, etc. At 268,000 miles, your battery simply wore out. Most 2003-2005 Civics last 120,000 - 160,000 miles before their batteries die.
Is the problem 100% solved now? Which relay was it?
Hope you had a great New Years!
While driving, my IMA and emission control icons lighted. When this was first noticed the IMA charge indicator was on full charge, the charge assist readouts were/are dark. The charge indicator has remained on full charge without variation while driving. No other indicators are lighted. I have not disconnected the 12v battery or pulled any fuses.
I have driven my Insight at least 150 miles since these things happened. I appear to be obtaining the same satisfactory acceleration that I was obtaining before this happened. My mileage has dropped from 52 mpg to 47 mpg.
With the IMA switch “off” the car would not start.
My local garage coded the car at p1449.
I live up country in Minnesota and need to be able to drive my car. I understand that it if nothing else goes wrong the IC engine should continue to provide power enough for highway driving. Is this correct?
The owner’s manual and web site do not give enough information for me to understand what I need to know about the system(s) of the Insight so that the IMA battery pack can be disconnected and/or removed from the car while continuing to safely start and operate with the IC motor and an electrical system that will serve the accessories as needed. Some other questions that seem important are:
1. Do you need to bypass/remove the IMA battery pack so that you can safely drive the Insight on the IC engine?
2. If yes, how do you bypass or remove the IMA battery pack so that you can safely drive the automobile on the IC engine?
3. The Honda web site says that the IMA motor acts as the starter, generator, and IMA motor. Will the IMA motor continue to start the IC motor if the IMA batteries are disconnected?
4. If not, does the 12 volt battery crank the IMA motor/starter or is the IC engine started by an independent starter?
5. Will the IMA motor continue to generate electricity for the 12 v battery if the IMA battery is disconnected from the system?
6. If not, does the Insight have another house battery-generator system that charges the 12v independently of the IMA motor?
7. What components does the interior fuse box IMA fuse disconnect? Should this be pulled?
8. What components does the exterior fuse box IMA fuse disconnect? Should this be pulled?
9. What components does the IMA ECU fuse disconnect? Same question for the FI ECU? Should either of these be pulled?
10. The car will not start with the IMA switch turned off. Why? What components does the IMA switch disconnect?
11. Does the 12 volt battery always or ever supply electricity to the accessories, lights and other electrically driven items other than the IMA? If so when?
Please contact me privately to discuss how to disable the faulty IMA battery and bypass it in your 2000 Insight. I'll provide you with instructions on how to do it and also diagnostic steps to find out why the car wouldn't start with the breaker off (it should have).
Ron
Before anyone else asks, this can only be done on 2000-2006 Insights, not on Civics or Accords.
So, last I posted, my local Honda dealership told me Honda was working on a fix for the update problems and they should be available this week. Just as I was planning on calling to check on the fix, my IMA and engine lights came on again. Since I was just starting on my list of errands and places I had to be that day, I didn't drive in to Honda service until I had driven 25 miles with the lights on. Interestingly, during that 25 miles, my mpg went up from 27.3 to 28.1 going up and down "hills" where I live. In addition, the auto stop was working, the green charging bars came on when I took my foot off the pedal or depressed the brake, and, while my battery gauge depleted going up a hill (3/10 mile), it recharged within a mile. In other words, the car was acting more like its original performance after the engine and IMA lights came on. Unfortunately, it still didn't have the power back. I was almost considering NOT taking it in, but I didn't want to give any excuse for not covering any warranty issues.
Anyway, I received a call later that night, and the service rep I had been dealing with from the beginning told me the district service manager had come out to look into my car situation, and he ordered me a new IMA battery. Okay, I'm game. I don't think that's going to make a difference, but ok, it's one more step towards meeting the lemon law requirements if it doesn't work.
When I went to pick up the car tonight, my service rep informed me that my car was the last software update. Honda was no longer doing the software update because of the problems. Yee haw! He told me that the new IMA battery is installed and, as I understand it, eveything is back to the original status. Time will tell, but on the way home, the auto stop worked, the battery recharger worked, the battery gauge only went half way down going up a long hill, AND I had power in acceleration. We stopped to fill the tank to get a reading on this battery and it currently reads 38.1 mpg. I'm cautiously optimistic.
SO, those still driving an HCH and experiencing problems, you might want to give your dealership a call and see what the story is now. I live in Washington state (Seattle area), and it may have been a local resolution, but he said, Honda is no longer performing the software updates due to the problems that it caused. I don't know if that means reinstalling the original software, but it's worth a try.
Good luck, and I'll repost after driving for a couple weeks and seeing if indeed things are back to the original performance.
Now manager is dealing with it, since the software is "OK".
I will keep you updated.
What a disappointing vehicle.
I've averaged 38.1 mpg since I bought the car. It's underpowered, overpriced and a huge over promise from Honda. (And by the way, we've owned 8 Hondas, including my wife's current Odyssey minivan.) The good news is, the battery replacement will be covered 100%. The bad news is, I have to go through the headache of selling or trading this car and buying another one.
I spoke to another couple tonight who have an 08 HCH, and they said their mileage decreased a bit, but not by much. Otherwise, they weren't having any trouble.
I'm cautiously optimistic, but am going to contact our state AG and inquire about my rights if the battery goes out in 18 months, which is past the timeframe for a lemon law suit. Since I have already documented the problem with them, hopefully it would still stand.
I would encourage you to stick with it, those who are still having trouble. Be in their face. The squeaky wheel, you know. It's just a shame because now I don't totally trust this car and before it wasn't ever a thought.
Good luck, and I'll post again when I have new information.
Now, that could be the story he gave this grumpy old lady to get her off his back and out of his office, but, on this second tank of gas, I currently have 36.2 mpg registering on the gauge. I know that sounds low for some, but when your driving consists of going up hill one way and downhill on the return, that's not bad. I haven't been able to try out a tank on strictly highway, so I'll post when I get that chance. Previously I got 47-51 mpg highway depending if I traveled north-south or east-west (across the mountains) in our area.
The battery gauge now rides at four bars (1/2 way) most of the time, but the autostart does engage once the car is warmed up (it wasn't coming on at all unless it was "fully charged"). I don't recall it bottoming out completely like it had been doing prior to the replacement, but going up hill does drop the gauge rather quickly (which, as I have said, is most of the driving here). That could be why it pretty much stays half way. I did wonder if they (dealership) didn't adjust some setting so it wouldn't display below half, but that's just paranoia I'm sure. :-)
My greatest concern, and I have contacted the state attorney general with this question, is if the new battery goes out in 18 months, like the old one and some others who have posted here, do I still have a lemon law claim (that would be past the 36 month time limit). Bottom line, no. The AGO did say I could still sue Honda Corporation at that time. My thinking now, while I LOVED my car before all this mess, is to cut my losses and get out from under it while it is performing well. Unfortunately, the only cars we've purchased in the past 10 years are Hondas, and I don't know what other car I would want.
tlj
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They can't. The old software is not available. I'm sure your dealer would like to do it for you, but he can't.
After the update, my mileage was horrible, and my battery would randomly charge and discharge... we all know the story. I took it to the dealer and paid $89 for a diagnosis. They couldn't find anything... "the car is performing exactly as designed." I told them it wasn't. They offered to let the tech drive it home that night. The next day they still said everything was within the parameters Honda had set. I reiterated very politely that the car had serious problems, and their suggestion was for me to call Honda and complain. I did and Honda could not have cared less. They basically said, the dealer has to find a code to say the battery was bad. I argued that my battery was bad (and I had the paperwork that said as much) and that they had changed the software to not indicate a problem even when there was one.
I then started taking videos of my battery monitor acting weird and e-mailing them to my service advisor. He called Honda and argued that there was something wrong but Honda said they wouldn't do anything. He was very sympathetic to me and asked me to bring the car back in. I then drove around for 30 minutes with a tech in the car because he said he'd have to have a perfect argument when he called Honda back to argue my case. Per Murphy's law, my car acted pretty well during the test drive, but did do enough weird stuff that he could use as evidence. They finally succeeded with Honda and I get a new battery next week!
Without re-reading the entire forum, has anyone had a 2006 HCH with this problem who was also able to get a new battery? If so, how did it perform after replacement?
I am looking for a little advice here. Would the lemon law apply to me? Does anyone have any suggestions? And can anyone tell me what the software upgrade on the Honda Civic Hybrid was supposed to accomplish? My dealer told me to call Honda which I did, but no one there was sympathetic to my problem.
If this describes your driving patterns, then it is quite likely you can revive your battery with about 18 hours of charging. The cells are probably strong but unbalanced. The damage you've done to them means that they will always be more susceptible to damage from sitting, so you'll have to charge it religiously.
I had a customer in Manhattan with the same problem who drove his only on weekends. He now tops it up Friday nights.
Contact me privately if you want more info (no I don't sell them but I'll point you in the right direction).
Over the last 2 months the IMA behavior has gotten worse. It has gone from resetting in the mornings to resetting any time the car sits for more than about 4 hours. Most recently, highway driving into a slight headwind cause the battery to reset several times during a c. 100 mile trip. During all this time no error code has ever shown on the dash readout.
My questions, for any who might have a better understanding of how the IMA system works:
1) Does this battery behavior mean my IMA battery is degrading and is likely to fail, or at least throw an error code, sometime soon?
2) Is there any point having the dealer test the system (yet again) until I actually get an error code?
I have an extended warranty, so I have until 100K to wait out battery failure.
How do I go about charging my batteries from an AC 110? Where do I plug the power into my car?
I dread taking it back into Honda. Though, I know last time they said the software update would "fix" my problem and if the lights came back on their give me a new battery. Hoping they stick to their word and it's not too hard of a battle but I cringe at the fact that even after replaced I may continue to get bad mileage, the new battery may die in a few years, and I also now realize the damage to the earth that mining these metals for the batteries are. So much for "green" technology, huh?
i would file a complaint with BBB and NHSTA(?). The BBB sent a form to fill out. Honda USA called me to bring the car into the dealer to run some checks. they took 3 days to do so and all the things i complained about (which were identical to yours) existed. battery drain in the morning. battery drain if i ran city errands every other time i turned on the car. battery drain when the engine senses some strain (uphill or prolonged freeway). everything that shouldn't happen was called normal by Honda engineering when the tech called them up to explain. i've read a lot of people has been successful in going to arbitration to get the vehicle redone with a new battery or they repurchase your vehicle.
even the Honda USA rep who was supposed to set up the dealership was useless. i had to call every other day to remind them that i'm waiting for them to call me back with an appointment. took almost a month for her to do cuz she never called me back.
i'm also sure that you've been told by the Honda customer service that you need to change your driving habits as well to achieve the advertised mileage. which is ridiculous since your habit has no control over any battery drain.
either way, i'm going through with my BBB complaint.