Towing with a Forester
kayakingsue
Member Posts: 13
How do I connect a trailer with trailer brakes to my 2007 Forester? I bought the tow package with the 07, but it only has a four-prong connector for brake lights and turn signals. The people selling me a pop-up tent trailer say I must have a 7-prong connector to connect the trailer's brakes to the Forester, but that Subaru must install it. When I went to Subaru, they said that the Forester was rated for 1000 pounds without trailer brakes and 2400 pounds with trailer brakes, but that they didn't sell or add the connectors to allow the car to tow the larger amount. What sort of "Catch 22" is this? They say it will tow 2400 pounds, but won't equip the car to do so. Now what should I do?
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The simple fact is the Forester can "pull" 2400 pounds, it just can't "stop" 2400 pounds safely or quickly, hence the need for trailer brakes for anything over 1000 pounds.
What I would do is go to a trailer dealer—one that specializes in all sorts of trailers—not a camping center, which may sell pop-up trailers. Trailer dealers do this all the time.
You will also need a dash-mounted or console-mounted electronic trailer brake controller, so that you can adjust the amount of braking needed for the trailer. That's what the extra wires on the 7-pin connector are for.
Bob
I wonder what the new wiring and trailer brake controller will cost?
Is there going to be any problem with the rest of my Forester's electrical systems if I retro-fit a 7-prong plug and brake controller into the car?
Man they sold you a bill of goods. I got a retrofitted Class II Hidden Hitch for less then the Subaru Class I hitch. And NO, if it is done right, you will have NO problem with the electrical. They will run a wire down from the battery then put a converter (little black box) in line and connect up with the four pin under the tire and run it all back to a preset 7 pin box connector next to your hitch. No problem, but around 150 bucks. And let a hitch installer do it. They generally will say it is very easy on a Subaru as it is already set up for a four pin and that makes it easier for them.
Show them up front how it is set up and that might lower the estimate since it is easier for them.
Man they sold you a bill of goods. I got a retrofitted Class II Hidden Hitch for less then the Subaru Class I hitch. And NO, if it is done right, you will have NO problem with the electrical. They will run a wire down from the battery then put a converter (little black box) in line and connect up with the four pin under the tire and run it all back to a preset 7 pin box connector next to your hitch. No problem, but around 150 bucks. And let a hitch installer do it. They generally will say it is very easy on a Subaru as it is already set up for a four pin and that makes it easier for them.
This is not entirely true.
What has to happen is that a brake controller needs to be installed, not just a 7pin connector.
The best brake controllers to get are the Teckonisha (sp?) and run about $120-150 depending on where you buy it. Then you need to connect it up yourself or have a trailer place wire it up. Since the Subarus IIRC are not pre-wired for the brake controller you'll need to run a power wire from the battery to the controller, then the controller connects up to your brake light switch and a few other connectors, then runs back to the 7-pin connector in the rear. What this does is provide 12 volt power and amperage to actually engage your brakes on the trailer. Simply putting a 4 to 7 pin adapter will not yield any braking action on the trailer.
Cost runs about $200-300 to get the install done, so you are looking at roughly about $500 overall to get a good controller and have it installed. Don't get a cheap controller that only works off your brake lights as they will kill your brakes on the trailer as they are not inertially controlled as the more expensive ones are. The inertially controlled ones provide braking based on how quickly you are braking rather than on how long your foot is on the brake pedal.
-mike
That is the reason for having a 7 pin hitch. It's the brakes... And that is failing of Subaru. Why install electrical for towing that isn't up to the brakes that you (as a manufacturer) require for anything over 1,000 lbs. All that does is tempt people to not put them on...
You have to get someone to install the brake controller anyway, they don't charge a lot more to get the 7pin connector also wired in.
-mike
Is it 2 inches?
Thanks
There are not as many choices for items like what you are looking for, but they are out there and there are also reducers for the 2 inch openings.
Yep. That's been a long-time hot-button issue with me. The vehicle makers (Subaru!) don't make it any easier either, as they bury that trailer brake info in the owner's manual. I've even requested that Subaru offer an dashboard-integrated electric trailer brake control, like what Ford and GM offer on their HD pickups.
It would be great if Subaru took a leadership role here, but they don't seem to care.
Bob
I was looking for surge brakes for my car-hauler flatbed trailer and could not find them anywhere on the east coast.
Electric over hydrolic or straight electric are superior in that there is no tounge smacking into the ball giving your car a push from the trailer as it comes forward.
As for an integrated controller, it's a lot of hardware to include when 95% of the vehicles out there don't tow. They other problem is that some trailer brake systems are incompatible with the factory brake controllers. For instance the GM factory controller cannot control Electric over Hydrolic used on a lot of boat trailers.
I have surge hydrolics on my cigarette boat trailer with disc (just had them converted from drums) on 2 of my 3 axles. I love them now, they are running vented discs that are found on the front of 3500 series GMC trucks so it's nice because rotors and pads are easy to find when I have to replace em
-mike
My Forester is the cheapest model, so you may have more soup than I do, which will make climbing those hills much nicer.
I was a camp-host in Oregon so I could kayak more frequently. I missed my Colorado sunshine, but I had a wonderful time, the the kayaking was fabulous. I like my tent trailer because it has more room when both beds are extended, although it had the same floor space as the T@B I looked at. However, it's really chilly when the nights get cold.
My Forester is the cheapest model, so you may have more soup than I do, which will make climbing those hills much nicer.
I was a camp-host in Oregon so I could kayak more frequently. I missed my Colorado sunshine, but I had a wonderful time, the the kayaking was fabulous. I like my tent trailer because it has more room when both beds are extended, although it had the same floor space as the T@B I looked at. However, it's really chilly when the nights get cold.
As for the rear suspension, the easiest thing to do is to move anything inside the trailer to the rear to reduce the tounge weight. You may be able to get some custom upgraded springs for the rear which would help.
-mike
-Frank
The self-leveling suspension would be lovely but not an option for me.
What would be an optimum hitch weight on the tongue, does anyone have an idea? It's common knowledge, I'm sure, but I don't know it.
Thank you, everyone, for your help.
Fred
On my peformance boat trailer I run about 600lb tounge on a 10,000lb trailer and this works out well to keep it balanced.
-mike
I'm curious. How does one actually determine the tongue weight?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
You could beef up the suspension if you wanted but, for example, the load leveling struts (standard in Australia only available in auto LL Beans in U.S.) will run you around 800 bucks for parts alone in the U.S. At a dealer, count on another 3 to 400 for labor.
You will need a seven pin hook up for electric brakes but Subaru's already have a four pin built in (look in your spare tire well/see the rubber grommet in the bottom?) and installers say they are easy to convert to 7 pin.
Tongue weight is figured by looking at what the manufacturer says tongue weight is, and then adding the battery weight and the propane tank weight. So, generally, you are looking for around a 150 lb tongue weight to stay under the Subaru 200 lb rating. Don't worry about a few pounds over.
And Subaru North American tow ratings are low compared to other countries. Many are convinced it is fear of lawyers as to why. In Australia they are rated at 3200 lbs for example and around 240 lbs tongue weight (remember load leveling struts are standard down under except for the absolute 2.0 base model.
Forester's are still the highest rated (at 2400 lbs)relative to size/engine in the U.S. A manual transmission is preferable IMHO and with the turbo, you will have NO problems going anywhere. You don't need to add a tranny cooler with a manual either. But you will need to change out tranny fluids more often.
I tow an 1800 to 1900 lb pop up with electric brakes and between my two Foresters (I have an 07 Premium Package manual now) I have put close to 20K in trips over mountains hills and dales. I've seen T@Bs on many a Subaru.
There is no such thing as a "conversion" from 4-pin to 7-pin, at least not easily. For a 7-pin you'd need to put in a brake controller and brake controller connections to the rear where the 7-pin connection goes. It's not plug-and-play so to speak.
Tongue weight is figured by looking at what the manufacturer says tongue weight is, and then adding the battery weight and the propane tank weight. So, generally, you are looking for around a 150 lb tongue weight to stay under the Subaru 200 lb rating. Don't worry about a few pounds over.
That's actually incorrect.
Tounge weight is actually calculated by putting a scale under the tounge at the hitch-height with a fully loaded trailer. You can use a bathroom scale but make sure to put a rod or something so that it's at the correct heigh of where it will be when hitched.
-mike
We are picking the trailer up tomorrow. It will be interesting.
Perhaps I should have said "relatively" easy or "comparatively" easy as compared to a vehicle that has nothing. I can only comment on what two installers said to me.
We are picking up the trailer today and I will ask the dealer about this as well. Any first-hand experiences will be welcome.
Fred
But you should be sure that at least 6% and preferably 10% of the trailer's weight is on the tongue, up to the car's limit of 200 lbs. Otherwise the trailer will tend to wiggle and fishtail.
Thanks for all the good advice. We do appreciate it.
Fred
This page shows the tongue weight for the T@B trailers is 110 to 145 lbs.
http://www.tab-rv.com/specs/dimensions.php
T@B has probably balanced the trailers to have enough tongue weight so the trailers pull in a stable manner, and the weights do not seem excessive for a Forester suspension. I would be careful about loading the rear of the trailer to reduce tongue weight, as it might be dangerous.
Thanks to everyone for all your help.
Fred
A battery isolater allows me to charge the battery in the trailer using the tow vehicle alternator without risking discharge of the tow vehicle battery. It's a one-way switch.
Fred
with the trailer connection?
I thought the car's alternator automatically
recharged the deep-cell battery on the trailer
through the electrical connection that lit the
trailer's exterior lights and activated the
trailer's brakes.
Does anyone know anything about retrofitting a pop-up for someone who isn't interested in sleeping the maximum number it (in theory) could hold?
The trailer towed beautifully. MPG ranged from 13-17. A high-pressure water line leaked but we found a replacement at the local Ace Hardware in Socorro, NM. The LP-gas alarm went off last night but we couldn't find any leaks. We had the heat on again today and no alarm. Hmmmmm.
Fred
Fred
The guy at the dealership who ran me through the trail set-up when I bought it told me that the car would not charge the 12 volt. Everything I've read and heard disagrees with that. I'll bring it up with them the next time I go there, along with the fact that they left the paper instructions for the heater INSIDE the heater behind a part you could only get to by removing a sheetmetal screw that was set so close to the top that no screwdriver could reach it!
No home theater--I use the extra bed to store things; the real problem is the mega-uncomfortable table seats and the stinking table, which sit out into the "aisle" too far.
I'm glad your maiden voyage was a success,
Sue
As to the car alternator charging the trailer battery, it will charge if I get a 12-volt power source to the correct terminal in the 7-pin connector. I will install everything in the spring before we pick up the trailer from storage. I have the correct isolator part number from the manufacturer and the recommended circuit breaker amperage along with the proper wire gauge number.
The charging question should perhaps be addressed to the manufacturer of your trailer. My trailer manual says it will charge and the mechanic who took us through our setup said it would charge on this trailer provided I do as I have stated. I have also ordered a compact solar panel charger that will fit nicely and puts out 6 watts max with a regulating circuit built in.
Are the table seats in the form of benches on your trailer? The table could probably be shortened by someone in a good custom carpentry shop.
Thank you, we are very happy about it also.
Fred
Will you solar panel make the outlets run?
The table's seats are benches (that make the mattress on top of the table if you want to travel with midgets). Their foam is miserable; I will replace it and make new slip covers. (It would be nice it someone would design a small pop-up for use by one or two--with two comfy big seats instead of bench seats for four.)
The real issue is the table: its legs are off-set to accommodate the wheel-well, but not enough, so it doesn't go all the way to the wall and then the other legs (and about six inches of the table) are in the way. I tried to move the legs, but then they wouldn't fold up and I couldn't store it to fold the trailer down. I've got a couple of designed sketched out, but before I do anything I'm going to look at another Yuma to see if all the tables are that way. I swear the first one I looked at didn't have a table in the aisle.
The solar panel will constantly charge the battery at only a small trickle rate. It will not power the trailer. It simply helps to keep the battery charged while the unit is parked in the sun. A solar panel that would run the outlets would have to be very large with present technology. There are larger panels available but I wouldn't want to mount them on our tiny rig and they get really expensive, really fast. Sort of like LCD TVs because of the fabrication costs for large panels.
We are looking at finding memory foam in bulk and replacing the foam on the upper part of our sleeping surface. Ours are also the bench cushions for the dining table. Our present foam is quite nice but it would be better if it were the memory type, we think.
Good luck on your design modifications. Yes, they do design most pop ups for the family with two children at the very least. It's much like being too tall or too short in stature. Everything is built for the median size person or family.
Fred
Does anyone know if there is any upgrading required to use a Subaru Forester to tow an RV trailer?
The owner's manual says 2000 lb max, but the trailer is around 2500 lbs....
Has anyone towed over the max before?
Would I need a transmission cooler, upgraded suspension, etc.?
Does having all-wheel drive make a difference?
Current-generation Foresters are rated to tow 2400 pounds (w/trailer brakes). You must have a first-generation Forester if it's rated to tow 2K.
Bob