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Toyota Sienna 3.5L power?
Are their any 07 sienna owners here? If so how does the new 3.5L engine perform? i am thinking of trading our 04 in for an 07. i wanted to know how the new V6 performs while passing and when going up steep inclines? thanks in advance. =]
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The 3.3l was plenty adequate, don't get me wrong. 0-60 was in the 8 second range, I believe.
But the 3.5l puts it in 7 second range, even the slow pokes at Consumer Reports managed 7.7s to 60 in an AWD model.
So if you're looking for that extra little oomph, that's basically exactly what you'll get.
If you're not, the gearing is the same and with Direct Injection it can be extremely fuel stingy at low rpms. I've had 2 tanks where I averaged 30.6mpg. My worst tank so far was 23.x mpg, and that was around town.
Let me find that torque curve...found it. See how flat it is? It breathes better than the 3.3l at high RPM, so that's how it makes more HP, but it has 10% more torque all over the rev band.
The V6 actually has a flatter torque curve, surprisingly.
Note that from about 2200 rpm to around 5800 rpm, there is no valley in the torque curve at all.
I have that engine in my Sienna and love it.
What you don't want are peaks and valleys that make it slow (or suddenly fast) at certain RPM.
When you stab the throttle the transmission gives you a gear right away, 2 gears take a little longer. With the power of the 3.5l you don't usually need 2 gears for passing, though.
I have yet to encounter a situation where I wanted more power with my van.
Any how, for things like passing, power is abundant. Hit the gas and you are there, often I used too much throttle and need the brakes to compensate.
I also own a Miata, and while the Miata could do circles around the van, the van is a LOT quicker, no contest.
"With great power comes great responsibility . . ."
Sometimes I have to remind myself. It is a minivan, after all
Go Spidey!
With that said, in July, we rented an 07 Sienna LE for @ 10 days. Obviously, we missed the goodies (Nav, DVD, Power Doors, Leather, etc.) - but WOW, did I love the power difference. I have to say with all honesty that "Stomping on it" at 50mph shot us straight to 75mph in absolutely no time!!! I looked over to my frightened wife and all we could do is laugh the first time... It scared us both - that big of a difference...
The thing I did notice, however, is that the engine seemed louder when you got on it. Don't know if there's extra deadening in XLE's or not, but it was definitely some additional decibels out there.
If you're in the market again, 07/08 should yield some pretty big differences - especially for those wanting all the goodies. Some would include: 3.5L vs. 3.3L (270hp vs 230hp I believe), Larger DVD Screen, In dash 4 CD (vs only 1) for Nav option, Voice Activated Nav now, Bluetooth, Turn Signals in Mirrors, Power Folding Mirrors, Power 3rd Row Seat, & Rear Disc Brakes (still Drum for loaded 04 XLE) - all for a price VERY CLOSE to the same loaded 04 XLE. To me, these are all significant changes that would trigger immediate interest in trading/updating - if I were in the market. Note, however, that you may not like what they've done to the wheels!!! I definitely like my 04 17" rims much better than these new 07/08 rims - look more like standard hubcaps to me...
Unfortunately, I'm not trading for another 2-3 years (trying to keep 6yr cycles on my cars as much as possible).
Fortunately, my Maxima is going bye-bye in next couple months (sad, but nice). I've negotiated & ordered a loaded 2008 Highlander Ltd (2WD) to replace the Max!!! Very excited & impressed with this new styling, size, features, & ride. Just have to wait for it to arrive.
Hope this helps - good luck in your decision
CmptrGuy
Without the side-by-side comparison of the 2 engines, a comparison of 3.3L to 3.5L is of little value but it should be noted that the 3.3L develops its maximum torque AND HP at a lower rpm than does the 3.5L even though the 3.5L has more power than the 3.3L at any comparable rpm.
Official Toyota information states the 3.3L has the Direct Injection in the same words used to describe the 3.5L. :shades:
You may want to consider one of the the upcoming high performance Crossovers/SUV's if peak performance is your objective. It'd probably end up being safer & more enjoyable at same time!
Drive them both. Toss the papers & make a decision off real life conditions - rather than some numbers. As an 07 Sienna passes you on a steep incline on your way to Tahoe are you going to reach in the glove box, hold up the papers, and say, "According to this chart, you should not have been able to pass me between 40-55mph cause my maximum torque was reached 1/16 mile ago and yours won't reach for another 1/16 mile"!!! And as the 07 passes, you see AWD wrote on back and have to return to glove box for more papers & charts & amazement...
From what I've experienced, there's some type of dramatic difference between these two engines - I don't care what the papers say.
Another thought, have a friend - who's a good contender in performance testing & limits - go with you to a dealer having a used 07 Sienna w/at least 1500 miles on it... Test them out side by side in various conditions and note who pulls ahead!!! Maybe he'll beat you from 0-10 or even 10-20, but wait till you try 50-70 and inclines.
Good luck in your final decisions and please be safe & lawful
I was satisfied with my 02 T&C 3.3L that had considerably fewer HP and noticeably fewer Lb-ft of torque. My post was a friendly jab to get the graph of the Sienna 3.3L posted in same posting as the 3.5L for a real comparison.
Minor correction, the SAE HP figures for the 04-06 was 215hp, and for 07-08 is 266hp. A noticeable gain.
Torque went up about 10%, and the curve is very flat, as the earlier graph shows. Even assuming the 3.3l has a similarly excellent, flat torque curve, you're still gaining about 10% of torque at all rpm, with a little better breathing at higher rpm (and no sacrifice at low rpm, hence the flat curve).
Noone complained about the 3.3l, but the 3.5l is actually quick enough to surprise more than a few folks.
What sold me, and made me wait, though, was that the extra power came at no sacrifice in fuel economy.
Thought I just lost 15 of my hard earned HP! Looking forward to the next generation Sienna. Hopefully, it'll be released by 2010 :shades:
In 2004, the rules were more relaxed, you could measure HP by disconnecting certain accessory belts that use up some of the available power.
It did still make "230 HP" at the time, but that was by using some of these tricks, which were allowed at the time.
The Society of Automotive Engineers stopped the cheating by giving specific rules for stating output. So under these new rules, the 3.3l made 215 SAE HP, to be specific.
230 HP under the old rules = 215 SAE HP under the new rules, though.
Not all engines lost HP, in fact some GM engines gained a few. Toyota was "cheating" more than most, though it was allowed under the old rules, so it wasn't illegal, just misleading.
The 210hp 3.0l V6 was downgraded to 190 SAE HP.
The 3.3l V6 was downgraded to from 230hp to 215 SAE hp.
We drop the "SAE" part now because they all use SAE HP. No need to distinguish any more, unless you compare output from before vs. after the new rule went in effect.
I shopped for rental vans in Tampa and was FLOORED! :surprise:
An Uplander was $220 for the 4 days, something like that, while a Sienna was $600 plus! :mad:
At least it doesn't cost you triple to buy.
I'm not paying $600 plus, it's not 3 times the van.
Sienna got 7.2s, all the others were 8 seconds or greater. The Chrysler vans came closest, the others were well behind the Sienna.
Told ya the 2GR was a gem.
Also notice a growl at 2000 to about 2500RPM in top gear and comes to hill or something but does not down shift.
A friend suggested to have different headers installed but don't want to go that route.
Your 2GR V6 has a timing chain, which indeed makes more noise, but lasts the life of the car. Toyota added some sound insulation in the door jambs and in the firewall to offset that somewhat, but you will hear more engine noise.
Still, in the C&D van comparison the Sienna was one of the quietest vans at cruising speeds.
I wouldn't make any changes.
I'd like to get some of you 3.5L owners to weigh in on my post in "slipping/non-responsive trottle". I think it is closely related to power issues!. I previously owned a 2001 sienna, and I swear that car had more pep and response than my new 2008 sienna. This unresponsive throttle issue is making me not feel the power!!! What do you think??
All the symptoms they describe are exactly what is happening with my new van. If you test drive one be sure to do this coasting/ then acceleration thing, between 6-8mph. You will REALLY notice it if you hit the gas after breaking, and coasting over a speed bump.
By the way there is no doubt this car is powerful, but this lagging acceleration after coasting really makes the car very annoying to drive. Maybe it isn't a slipping trottle thing. I wish I'd listen to my gut when I first brought this car home and not let the salesperson convince me that "the car needed to break-in", it was a "drive by-cable thing" and "the car learns how you drive". I would have brought it right back and asked for my money back.
C&D just tested all the latest vans and the Sienna was quickest in every single acceleration test, including their 5-60 "street start", which is 1mph below what you are reporting, but still shows a lag isn't normal even from a running start.
Sienna was also quickest in all the passing tests.
In another thread, I linked to the intake modification you might be interested in. Check that out.
I happen to be very annoyed by it on a daily basis, because I have a winding subdivision to navigate before I hit the road and I'm often at this under 8mph and coasting mode.
The few times were I punch it, though, mine seems to respond pretty quick, in fact some times I get more than I wanted (more noise, too much speed).
Toyota actually added more sound insulation to the fire wall and door sills to compensate.
PS - the Dodge Chrysler Vans I have rented over the years did the same thing, but I thought it was more pronounced then my '06 Sienna.
Gotta love this powertrain, the combination of power and efficiency is unreal.
Keep in mind the gearing has not changed. It's very tall geared. At 55mph it's barely idling along at something like 1500rpm. At 70 I think it's just barely over 2000 rpm.
As flat as the torque curve is, you hit an incline and it will shift, though mine has only ever shifted from 5 -> 4, never two ratios.
The 3.5l has roughly 10% more torque across the torque band compared to the 3.3l. So there may be a few scenarios where that 10% makes enough difference.
Toyota specifies 87 octane for the 3.3L in the Sienna but states that the 3.3L provides more power on higher octane premium. Does the 3.5L also develop MORE power using premum? :confuse:
One of the few manufacturers that stated HP for both types of fuel was Subaru, when their H6 engine came out. It made 212hp on premium, 208hp on regular. Since power output is similar for the 3.3l Toyota engine, it seems reasonable to conclude there would be a similar HP loss.
Now, to the 3.5l, Toyota states an SAE output of 266hp. This is low for the 2GR, other models make 268-270hp from the same engine. The RAV4 is rated for 268hp even on regular fuel.
Can they make more HP on better fuel? It depends, if Toyota tuned the engines to advance the spark timing, then yes, they could squeeze out another 5hp or so, is my guess.
The catch? We know the 3.3l is capable of running on 87 octane, because that's all that is required. So it was tuned to be flexible enough for both types of fuel.
We don't know, however, if the 2GR (3.5l) is tuned to take advantage of higher octane (by advancing spark timing beyond stock settings). Any answer is just a guess, we don't really know.