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Hyundai Sonata vs Honda Accord
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*Azera lookin front end
*Horsepower increase for both 4cyl and V6
*Improved fuel economy for both engines
*5 speed auto trans for 4cyl
*Blue background dashboard lights
*Improved handling and ride
*Specific sport handling for SE model
*Redone interior featuring, more storage,better finish,less plastic looking
*USB port and i-pod jack
*Exhaust tuned for performance sound
Consider where the Sonata currently falls short of the Accord, in fact or in the opinions of some:
* Front end reminds some of an older Accord: while that isn't a terrible thing by itself, a nose job would take that quibble away. Personally I'd like to see the new nose more like the Genesis' than the Azera's, and I've read other reports that say that is what will happen, so we'll have to see.
* Engines lag in power behind the Accord: more power coming--how much, we'll have to see. I think the Sonata (and the old Accord) have plenty of power, but for some folks the more power, the better.
* Improved fuel economy for both engines: the current Sonata is competitive with the new Accord there, just 1 mpg down in some EPA numbers depending on powertrain, but any improvement there is welcome.
* 5 speed AT for I4: This puts Sonata on par with Accord on the number of cogs in the slushbox, and is probably related to the FE improvement (i.e. the Optima with the same I4 as the Sonata has higher FE with its 5AT).
* Blue background on dashboard lights: the old-fashioned green lighting is a common complaint, so this is a nice change.
* Improved handling and ride: handling is a common area of complaint, especially from people who prefer the Accord's handling, so this is a biggie depending on how well it's executed. I just hope Hyundai doesn't take away the quiet and smooth ride in improving the handling.
* Specific sport handling for SE model: I wonder if this change will involve the active rear suspension that has been available in other markets since 2004?
* Redone interior: based on the photo, the new center stack is a big improvement over the current one. I don't think the rest of the current interior is all that bad.
* USB port and iPod jack: Pretty much givens these days.
* Exhaust tuned for performance sound: Yeah, well, okay, but this is after all a family sedan.
No mention of optional nav, but Motor Trend reported in August that the Sonata would get nav as an option in 2008.
So, with all those improvements... pretty interesting matchup against the new Accord, eh?
but its ok to call out the prev gen accord (03-07,) on its braking ability compared with a car that was actually newer? How is that fair? And does that again not include an accord in which this thread is NOT about?
the accord won that comparo too. Icing on the honda cake.
and its a moot point, because THIS thread is about the 2008 HONDA ACCORD, which just so happens to have it just as standard as hyundai does.
If I didn't say it, someone else would've.
Honda usually waits for a full design to add major features, and its model cycle last five years while minor changes are made with MMC (in fourth year of the five year design cycle). This philosophy is reflected even in Honda’s business plan. Kia probably has a bigger line of vehicles than does Honda (or it feels like it). Honda has long been about lean and efficient processes. They don’t do it all at once, instead add stuff slowly and steadily. I don’t see any difference now.
Another good example is Honda’s inclusion of pedestrian safety technology in American vehicles. This is not something that shows up on spec sheet or in crash test ratings, and is limited only to European market. But they are design criteria even in exclusively American offerings too.
Niche players have to be more creative and do things a bit differently. They can afford to be. They don’t have much choice either. For likes of Honda and Toyota, they have to worry about pleasing 400K or more customers every year, trying to attract new ones while ensuring a very high retention rate. The new Accord is clearly designed to appeal to buyers from 1998-2002 era (which was perhaps the most successful generation in terms of sales for Honda). I have read that the new Accord even drives like one in terms of tracking (and that is a good thing).
Another thing to consider is price sensitivity. With almost 80% of car being manufactured (not just assembly) in the USA, the cost is higher. It is not easy to maintain a balance between cost, quality and features. And what one gets is an incredible package that sets tone on quality. Sure they are not the cheapest, but they can back up their price rather well.
Can’t wait to test drive the new Accord. I’m sure it is still a Honda!
and good post by robertsmx, once again.
what a FANTASTIC point. I asked some hyundai troops if they would still consider their rides if all the deep discounting was no longer available, and if msrp was around the same as the altima, accord, and camry.
i can't remember if it was c/d or edmunds, but the sonata took 1st place in that comparo, when they anazlyed bang for buck. (a v-6 for 20k for example.)
But the same people (again, can't remember if it was edmunds or c/d) decided to not play it by price and stack up the cars on dynamics and feel. The sonata i belive was 4th place, if not 3rd.
I do think hyundai has come a long way, but they are by no means the benchmark, and if any car is going to be used as a way to attack the price premium you pay for the accord, the sonata is not it. Sure, maybe the next gen will be much better and they will finally address driving dynamics, but who knows how far advanced the accord will be by then.
I didn't realize that so many college grads preferred the sonata. I wonder what school THEY go to.
I think backy mentioned the 'older people' who he frequently sees driving accords, and how they probably have no regard for sporting character. The hyundai crowd is no better, and i see plenty of young-ish people driving them. (although its more common amongst the coupes)
and regardless of who's driving them, its the dynamics of the CAR, not the driver, that determines what kind of 'sportiness' the company who built it put into the car.
C/D put the Sonata in third of four, behind Accord (1), Fusion (2), and ahead of the late-model Camry (4). Obviously that's an old comparo.
When the new Malibu and 6 come out, a big down-and-dirty comparo will be in order from C/D, MT, etc.
Another fact to consider is that once cars reach a saturation point on sales, there is little growth to be had. Given the competition today, 350-400K units/year appears to be just that. Anything on top will probably need help from fleet market. And when a company has more repeat buyers, its average age will steadily go up as well. I was 23+ when I got my first Honda (Accord). I might consider this new Accord early next year and I will be 34. In the process, I would have skipped a generation (2003-2007) and will be adding to the average age more than I did ten years ago.
That said, a family sedan makes more sense now than it did ten years ago. But I was always more practicality minded, so sedan was it and stayed away from coupes (I do have family and friends visit regularly and don’t want to force them to back seat of a coupe).
So, I have yet to understand the fascination with age factor in arguments (or magazines). First of all, always having younger buyers isn’t going to help a company. It would indicate less buyer retention, and buyers that usually want something cheaper. Older buyers are (generally) better financially.
However, in a struggling economy, the best place to be is either at the bottom or at the top. If gas prices keep going up and economy goes downhill, Civic will gain a lot of Accord buyers. I’m actually also considering the next Honda Fit. So, the Accord will have to beat that little thing.
Grad, i know you are my age, but you are the exception bro.
robertsmx, the new fit looks very promising!
I like the fabric in the ex though.
They are REALLY high-quality cloth. MUCH better than the 2008 LX-P (beige interior - YUCK) I sat in, and softer than the 2008 EX 4-cyl (black interior) I sat in as well.
I never said, nor did anyone else, that the Sonata was a benchmark. I said, for the most part, that Camcordima has taken notice, and Hyundai has become a thorn in they're side.
To assume that if Hyundai we're doing good, they would raise they're prices isn't smart business. That would alienate the very people who made them great. Thats like walmart trying to turn itself into Best Buy. You have people who will go into Best Buy and pay whatever the price is and not care, because they trust Best Buy. Then you have people who will go to walmart, pay less, and rest assured that the company will stand behind they're products(nobody has a better return policy than walmart). Hyundai's hook is they offer the same(actually more) of a car for less of a price. This is what has made them successful. No reason to change that formula, that would even the playing the playing field, but why do that, what would they're be to gain? OR prove?
Yea, the new Accord will still be a Honda!, and the next Altima will be a Nissan. But your love for the brand is what blinds you.
I really hope you don't ever have to use stability control or active head rests. Or ABS, or airbags, or side door beams, or crumple zones. I hope I never have to use them either. But like the insurance policies I own, I like the fact they are there protecting my family and me.
Try two and a half years.
Maybe one reason Sonata has not better solidified its position in the marketplace is that few people give it any credit for what it does right, other than low price.
i can't remember if it was c/d or edmunds, but the sonata took 1st place in that comparo, when they anazlyed bang for buck. (a v-6 for 20k for example.)
But the same people (again, can't remember if it was edmunds or c/d) decided to not play it by price and stack up the cars on dynamics and feel. The sonata i belive was 4th place, if not 3rd.
Were these comparos of the 2008 Sonata and 2008 Accord? I don't think so...
But what say Edmunds.com repeated their comparo from a couple of years ago, and tested a liked-priced Accord and Sonata? I think the price limit at that time was $22k. Let's bump it up a bit for inflation, to $23k. That would pit the Accord LX-P I4 vs. the Sonata SE V6. Wonder how that one would turn out?
As for the virtual comparo, if you bump it to $23K, Accord EX would sneak in. But, is Sonata available with MT?
You're right, because last i read, the NHTSA gave the 2008 Accord 5 stars for frontal collisions ONLY and just 4 stars for side impacts and the same goes for older models. The Sonata's got 5 stars for BOTH even for just the current model! :P
And pray you'll never be rear-ended in your Accord, for without the Active Head restraint (which the Sonata's got), you'll be a prime candidate for dreaded whiplash injury. :sick:
And my reply to this is that all these handling & driving dynamics in favor of the Accord you mentioned (i.e. slight advantage over the Sonata) are not that important to me. And those advantages of the Accord are made even less significant to me since it means paying a lot more $$$ for something that is apparently less safe.
But then again, if you prefer better handling & driving dynamics over better safety and price per feature value, then the Accord wins hand down. :shades:
They didn't "wait" longer, they put it when it made sense, getting along their established processes. They ain't looking to match competition, they go at their own pace, adding a few things at a time (and mostly at FMC, and sometimes MMC).
Real world MSRP is the total MSRP, the complete car.
Destination is a separate piece, which is non-negotiable, but not included in "MSRP". Rebate is not MSRP or a part of it either. Is it? That must be Hyundai speak.
MSRP starting at $17,345 means the lowest MSRP available on a Sonata is $17,345. Rebates are independent of MSRP.
Speaking of Hyundai, the rebate appears to be a permanent fixture, as it is being offered even on 2008.
If I were negotiating on a car, I prefer to pay listed invoice, never MSRP. Sonata is listed at $16.9K (invoice). But since Hyundai is offering a $1K rebate, I should still get $1K off, right, effectively making it a $16K deal plus destination ($675). Right?
Or is it purely a marketing gimmick, telling customers of rebate, attracting them, but taking it off only MSRP?
Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price $21,345.
Options: Carpeted Floor Mats $85.
Inland Freight & Handling $650.
Total Manufacturers Suggested Reail Price $22080
If you still have it, check the window sticker from your car. It will contain the same format of information since this is required by the Federal Government. Dealer installed options are not included in MSRP.
We paid $16,651 plus $189 doc fee plus $1349 in taxes and registration for a total out the door, no trade deal, of $18,189. This was at a dealer selling price $1900 below invoice and $2500 in rebates.
I don't think its a gimmick, I think they are really low-priced.
I was doing some math on Accord EX-L/V6 and Hyundai Limited/V6 (with moonroof option). Accord at invoice plus destination will be about $26.4K. Sonata with $1K rebate off MSRP plus destination will be $24.7K. That isn’t a big difference.
It might be a little better if Hyundai dealership deals down to invoice and then considers rebate on top of it. That would be selling well below invoice.
I don't believe much of the boards either. A lot of posters are really sales people. They will post whatever they want.
But, I'm curious if Hyundai is already giving away 2008 Sonatas at below invoice price. I can see that applying to 2007 clearance. Even Honda has to do it.
I'm a 2-Accord owner (with pictures to prove it!
You "assume" that the rebate will only knock $1000 off of MSRP on the Sonata, but go ahead and take the invoice price on the Accord.
If you ask me, I'm gonna have to say that the model that has been out since 2005 is going to be had below invoice Loooong before the brand-new for 2008 model will be.
I'm probably Honda biased (I love my Accords) and even I can see and state that.
My parents live in FL. They checked with a dealer there and got a much better price. In a couple days I was on Jet Blue. Spent a couple days in FL and drive home to CT. Total cost for the trip ws $300. I saved about $1800 on the car (before the cost of the trip). My total OTD on that purchase was $17,826.
Dealerships, as you've said before, do make a difference.
There are positives in Sonata (and I have mentioned it), but it ain't a car for me. Does that mean, I shouldn't ask questions, and counter the arguments being made in this thread?
It is not a bad thing to point at weaknesses (Sonata or Accord). In this case, I'm questioning whether people are in a better position to negotiate than what advertisements have to say. But don't worry about it. You can have it your way. Just skip my posts since it would help your cause.
The mats cost us about $55. But, remember they were included in the previously posted prices.
I just think there's a little too much "Honda way or the highway" going on; my two Hondas are great cars, but the 2008s are a disappointment based on interior quality alone.
My intent wasn't to speak for dealerships, but rather the more likely transaction price for these two cars. Between the two, I think the Sonata will be much MUCH lower. Resale will be also, but that wasn't my point.
BTW, you're correct, Honda way or highway would definitely apply to me. It is based on my personal experience and I dont' see that changing. My purchases are based on set budget. If I can do better, I go for it (which has happened with all of my purchases). But I'm not going to settle for less on price. May be someday if I stop enjoying driving. But thats me.
I can sit in virtually any car and nitpick about it. Some are easier than others. That takes me to the highway thing...
I disagree with your statement, and I'm sure all of the manufacturers who have plants here in the USA would too. Why do you think Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, et. al. built plants here? Because the overall cost of production, including shipping, etc., is cheaper than doing so in their own countries.
The wage scale of workers in Japan, for example, is quite high, as it is in South Korea with their extremely strong, and united, union workforce. Most, if not all, workers in the aforementioned American plants are non-union, therefore the fixed costs, and long-term costs, are lower than they would be in their own nation. Like it or not, with the current status of the dollar on the international market, it's much cheaper for foreign companies to build plants, and vehicles, here, than to build them in their own country for export to the USA.
I do the same thing. The only problem I have now run into is the poor quality in 2 different 2008s I have sat in. One was an EX, one was an LX-P, and BOTH were disappointing to the point I can say the Fusion, while lacking in interior style, had better quality in areas such as the center stack.
And none of these companies have to build it here for lower costs. It might be better to do it in other countries, and lot of automakers (including those two) do that. I don't know where South Korea stacks up, but USA and Japan are not the best place to build cheaper cars.