Then why does Hyundai cut the warranty in half if the first owner decides to sell?
Honda and Toyota haven't had to sell their cars on grounds likes of Isuzu, Kia, Hyundai, Suzuki etc have. But, they "add" warranty when it really counts... in the used car market. That not only helps a new car buyer, and helps improve the value of old as well. Think about it.
Its not about head start, it is also about making an impression. If we were to go by the head start logic, Honda should be nowhere close to being the second largest Japanese automaker. A fun fact (Accord's sales over first five years following its launch in 1976): 1976: 19K 1977: 76K 1978: 121K 1979: 158K 1980: 186K
It passed the 200K mark in 1983, 300K mark in 1986.
Bonus: The story is fairly similar for Civic (someone earlier dubbed it an "unloved" car) 1973: 33K 1974: 43K 1975: 102K 1976: 132K 1977: 148K
Civic crossed the 200K unit sales mark in 1985, and the 300K unit sales mark in 1997.
What makes it all more impressive is that Honda accomplished these numbers by attracting individual buyers like you and me, instead of sending vehicles to fleet. Honda is still the stingiest of major automakers in terms of fleet sales (about 2%). So, the company managed to make inroads into people's heart by being something different and in many ways, unique.
ACE serves a purpose that goes beyond the standardized IIHS and NHTSA tests. It can be done without in those tests, as older Hondas with no-ACE but 5-star frontal ratings would prove.
ACE (Advanced Compatibility Engineering) is about proper dispersion of forces against larger (higher) and heavier vehicles, that goes beyond simply running into a barrier for IIHS/NHTSA standardized tests.
In case of SUVs (for example, in RDX and MDX), ACE incorporates a design to catch/engage the bumper of a smaller/lower vehicles so the chance to be run over them is minimized. So the idea isn't to show better numbers for a Honda or Acura, but to help lesser vehicles on the road survive. Which standardized test measures that?
There are no standardized tests that account for these, yet it is a part of Honda's design. And as always, Honda did a poor job in marketing its design. To a normal person, ACE simply sounds like any other approach to doing better in crash tests.
Some people place $4,000 worth of value in an Accord over a Sonata. As I like to point out sales figures don't lie, regardless of the conversations in this forum.
I think the Sonata is nicely styled. It's sleek and functional, and if--as many believe--the 06 Sonata was copying a bit the 03 Accord, then I think Hyundai picked a good model. They were targeting one of the two the class-leading cars for this segment (the other being the Camry, of course).
I like the style of the 08 Accord even better, but the part I like best is the side view--which even most admirers have to admit pays homage to the BMW 5-series. There's nothing wrong with copying great cars, at least imho.
And in terms of packaging, the Sonata is very strong. It has almost as much passenger room inside as the 08 Accord (I think the Accord has a bit more room in some areas, like headroom, but not much), but the Sonata's trunk is substantially bigger (2 cubic feet, I think), all with a length that is about 5 inches shorter than the 08 Accord.
The engine of the Sonata is good, but the engine of the 08 Accord a little better. The 4 cylinder Sonata has 162 hp, while the 4 cylinder Accord has 177 hp in the LX/LXP version, and 190 hp in the EX/EXL version. And the LX Accord, even though it is a bigger car, actually weighs slightly less than the GLS Sonata (I believe there's more high-strength/high grade steel in the Accord, in fact the Accord is getting closer to having as much high-strength steel as a Mercedes). In both versions, the 08 Accord gets 1 more mpg in the city with the manual transmission than the Sonata. So, slightly higher mpg, more power, and a little more room inside with the Accord. It's marginal, but I'd say the Accord has better engineering overall. But it does cost more than the Sonata, no doubt about it.
You pay a lot for those small differences, but overall I think Honda's engineering is just slightly superior.
I believe that many forgot that the 1970's upwards were the oil embargo years when people lined up for hours with their gas-guzzling V8 domestic cars to fill their tanks. SO the public was very hungry and motivated to abandon their domestics V8s and seek out better gas mileage cars in droves. The best(and only) alternatives were Japanese economo boxes as called back then - statistically this would skew/drive up their rapid sales numbers. But times have changed today with many more choices available. IS that past growth RATE maintained/sustainable today? Absolutely not as we can see from their relatively stable numbers.
I should know as I traded my V8 Caprice for a Civic CVCC back in late 1970's...Fenders, hood, trunk, doors of Civic rusted out within 6 yrs up north despite rustproofing. Great memories!
Was Honda the only one selling high mpg cars? What happened a few years later? You can't just blame on the oil embargo period that certainly didn't last for very long.
Besides, that also helps make the point I did earlier... Honda wasn't like everybody else, copying and competing. It was the unique approach, and winning heart by design and engineering. Do you disagree? If you do, you would actually contradict yourself because if Honda weren't unique, why did people WANT a brand new entry that was Honda?
Then why does Hyundai cut the warranty in half if the first owner decides to sell?
They don't. The second buyer gets the full benefit of the remaining 5-year, 60,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. Which is 2 years and 24,000 miles longer than the Accord's bumper-to-bumper warranty.
Say someone sells their three-year old Sonata with 36,000 miles on it. The next owner gets a factory bumper-to-bumper warranty for two years/24,000 miles. If an Accord owner sells his car after 3 years/36,000 miles, all the next owner gets is 2 years and 24,000 miles of powertrain warranty.
Question: who got the better warranty: the 2nd Sonata owner, or the 2nd Accord owner?
Extended warranties are available on used Sonatas also. So the fact you can buy one on an Accord--or pay more for a used Accord that has an extended warranty automatically applied--is not a big deal.
ACE (Advanced Compatibility Engineering) is about proper dispersion of forces against larger (higher) and heavier vehicles, that goes beyond simply running into a barrier for IIHS/NHTSA standardized tests. ... There are no standardized tests that account for these, ...
The sled used in the IIHS side impact test is designed to mimic the height and weight of a small truck or SUV--one reason it's a tougher test than the NHTSA's test.
To a normal person, ACE simply sounds like any other approach to doing better in crash tests.
I suppose that may be true... but it was not said by anyone here, except you just now. I do think there is a correlation between what Honda has done with the Accord's structure with ACE and its ability to get good scores on the standardized crash tests. If you disagree, fine. But it's clear that Honda cares very much about getting good crash test scores, so I have no doubt they were thinking about them when they designed the 2008 Accord. And I'm glad they did.
Good analysis, and I agree the Accord's engineering is slightly superior to that of the Sonata overall. But then, I would expect that for a car that debuted three years after the Sonata did. The car companies tend to leapfrog each other. How will Hyundai respond for the mid-gen refresh next spring, and the next generation in 2-3 years?
How could you forget THE warranty that Hyundai runs around with on a huge banner? And that is the 10-year/100K mile warranty. Why exactly does it get chopped in half for the new buyer? And this happens while Hyundai promotes long warranty as a big selling point (but I'm willing to bet, few buyers are aware of this fact). Let us take this to another level.
An Accord buyer sells his car after 4 years/50K miles and it goes for sale as a certified used car. The new owner gets 3-years/50K miles powertrain warranty (and 1-year/12K mile on everything else).
How about Sonata? Well, 50K miles disqualifies it from being considered as certified, as it has exceeded the maximum allowance of 4-years/48K miles. :sick:
What I actually said was that the 1971/72 Honda 600 was totally incompatible with the United States climate, driving conditions, and about everything else. It was also totally unloved. The first Civic was introduced in 1973 and did well because of the fuel shortage. Subaru had a small car (the 360) that flopped about the same time. A bigger Subaru was introduced in about 1975. Datsun had a few small cars also so Honda was not alone.
You've completely missed the point. Civic from pre-ACE era did just as well as the Civic w/ACE in crash tests. What changed? It is not something that shows up on the window sticker, or IIHS/NHTSA website. Also ACE isn’t about side protection.
ACE is about minimizing the impact from size difference between crashing vehicles, as well as incorporating pedestrian protection. It takes a lot more to do that (and something that won’t be reflected in crash tests) than to design a car around a standard sled.
Of course Honda would like to see good crash test results too, but that’s not why they came up with ACE. See my example on Civic above. Is there a difference in 5-star with ACE versus 5-stars without?
Just to give you an idea, Michelin Challenge Design at NAIAS had 260 entries from 51 countries. The theme was focusing on safety not only for the occupants of vehicles, but everyone who shares the road. From a related article:
“We asked participants to design vehicles, incorporating safety features not only for the vehicle occupants, but also for others who share the road. We challenged designers to consider how vehicles interact with vehicles of other sizes and types and to emphasize accident avoidance, occupant protection and pedestrian safety”
And that is where ACE comes into play. And in fact, ACE was a winner (Civic’s ACE structure was showcased). You won’t find this as a star ratings on the window sticker. It is more about awareness than a selling point, at least at this time.
But, seeing those stars (no pun intended) might not be telling you everything. For example, 2003-2007 Accord’s front side impact rating has 4-stars. While 2005-2007 Sonata has 5-stars. Does that make Sonata safer? Let us look more closely at the details for the front/side test (Accord/Sonata) Head Injury Criterion: 216/265 Thoracic Trauma Index: 62/55 Pelvis Deceleration: 65/75
Interestingly enough, Accord is safer on two of three counts, and relatively close in the third. But the stars that you see (again, no pun intended) doesn’t consider the pelvic and head injury.
Welcome to the world of standardized tests, and counting stars.
Hyundai wasn't forced to do anything. They chose to give out the warranty and it paid off for them. Please don't make it sound like even their successes are due because of someone else forcing them to do anything.
Give credit to where it's due. If one person buys a maglight which has a lifetime warranty and he buys a regular flashlight that doesn't have a warranty which one would make him feel more at ease?
It's the one with a longer warranty. Regardless of the fact that one's superior to another, it's the perception of the people that Hyundai wanted to challenge.
So they challenged it. They laid aside a budget for warranty repairs and they didn't even need to use all of it. They took the risk and perhaps that risk FORCED them to build higher quality cars.
People still prefer to buy Honda's over Hyundai. So therefore Hyundai dealers are FORCED to lowering prices below MSRP and selling for way cheaper than Honda's.
So who benefits from that? The customer or more specifically the Hyundai customer.
Please be fair with your assessments about other car companies. I've owned a new Civic that's been nothing but problems before (and that i was FORCED to sell) so I'm familiar with both Hyundai and Honda products. By the time I needed repairs for the Civic, my warranty barely expired. Bad luck perhaps, but also a bad warranty.
You are right, the best warranty is the one you'll never have to use. To bad I had to use it on the Honda but it wasn't available.
By the way, I paid $4,000 more on the Honda than the Hyundai Elantra. After repair bills, I made about $3,000 on resale. Bought the Elantra and never had to look back. Still have 30,000 miles left on the warranty and hopefully never will have to use it, but if I do, atleast I have one to use. So give me all the dealership rhetoric you want, I'll take substance over style anyday.
Hmm... If I had to do it again, which one would I choose?
S600 was a limited production sports car. I wasn't even born back then so I can't argue on climate, driving conditions etc of the day, but I do have some numbers for you: 1970: 4K (apparently, it was launched sometime in 1970) 1971: 9K 1972: 21K
That car may have actually helped buyers consider Civic (CVCC) when it was offered as the first mainstream model in 1973. I'm actually surprised Honda sold 600 in 1971/72 because it was basically a mid-60s designed and had been replaced by 800 in the late 60s. Unless, a few were just brought into the USA. Technically, and the ways I see it, CVCC (later called Civic) really defined Honda's entry in the USA as an automotive brand.
And if Honda wasn't alone, why is it that only Honda had a runaway success? As you say, Subaru was a flop (why?), and Datsun was around (where is it now?).
· Powertrain 10 year/100,000 mile warranty · 150-Point Inspection · $50 deductible · Vehicles up to five model years old with less than 60,000 miles are eligible · Roadside assistance · Rental car coverage (up to $35/day for up to 10 days) · Towing coverage (up to $75 per occurrence) · Travel breakdown coverage (up to $375 per occurrence) · Diagnostics · Related damage for specific parts · Fluids · New car financing rates through Hyundai Motor Financing Company
Additional options available to the Certified Pre-Owned Limited Warranty include service contracts such as the Hyundai Certified Pre-Owned Wrap Contract which raises the comprehensive coverage on non-powertrain components, Hyundai Vehicle Care Maintenance Program and Hyundai Road Hazard Tire and Wheel option.
I think that stacks up pretty well against the Honda CPO program.
Apparently, Hyundai revised it this year (I got the information from Edmunds article on various CPO). Still, Hyundai is looking for used car that is less than 5 years/60K miles old (Honda goes further, by a year to sell it certified).
You don't have to tell me about Mag Lights. I was one of the people who introduced them to the world.
But using Maglight as an example, I would much rather have a Maglight with a 90 day warranty than a Korean flashlight with a lifetime warranty. I know it would be VERY unlikly tha Maglight would ever give me trouble.
Maybe FORCED was a strong word but they HAD to do SOMETHING in an attempt to build a bit of confidence in what had been a pretty lackluster product. It was a smart (and necessary) marketing move.
I'm sorry you had such a troublesome Civic. This is normally NOT the case.
There is not one car manufacturer on the face of the planet that doesn't have at least a few disgruntled customers. Having said that I base my buying decisions on what I know first or second hand about a car, it's manufacturer and the dealer.
Kingsaloms Civic experience would not deter me from purchasing a Civic or other Honda product. But if I knew of someone first hand who had these troubles, I would really give the purchase pause.
...People still prefer to buy Honda's over Hyundai. So therefore Hyundai dealers are FORCED to lowering prices below MSRP and selling for way cheaper than Honda's.
that this is precisely the point. Its YOURE view. Not everyone's criteria is the same for a vehicle and both the sonata and accord cater to 2 different types...come on its obvious isn't it? at least if you been reading all of the pages and pages of this thread...
though looks don't matter much to people all the time, the Sonata's body design wins over any Accord built from any model year by Honda. Just does. Plain fact. And no, Hyundai isn't copying the Accord. There are so many design differences in the two cars that it's really a silly argument.
lets anazlye this, if looks don't matter, why does it matter if TO YOU the sonatas body design wins over any accords ever? Isn't that statement just an OPINION anyway?
Hyundai themselves admitted they benchmarked the accord. Heck all you need is eyes to know it, its not a big deal, as kdshapiro mentioned that 'copying' isn't neccesarily a bad thing, but even hyundaiphiles will have to admit that hyundai DID get a little more than just 'inspiration' from the accords design.
To through in my own little bit of .02, NO hyundai ever looked as good as the Cb7 (91-93) accord. :P
Without mentioning a Kia Optima in this thread. Even once
If a person were to read the "problems" forums on every car on the market, they would throw their hands up in the air and buy nothing except maybe a bicycle.
We seem to be done with Accord vs Sonata so let's wrap this up. If any of you would like to continue the debate about the manufacturers, please look into the discussions on the Auto News board.
Comments
Honda and Toyota haven't had to sell their cars on grounds likes of Isuzu, Kia, Hyundai, Suzuki etc have. But, they "add" warranty when it really counts... in the used car market. That not only helps a new car buyer, and helps improve the value of old as well. Think about it.
That is your opinion.
Buy what you are happy with. That's all that really matters.
They were FORCED into that warranty but some people will buy strictly because of that.
1976: 19K
1977: 76K
1978: 121K
1979: 158K
1980: 186K
It passed the 200K mark in 1983, 300K mark in 1986.
Bonus: The story is fairly similar for Civic (someone earlier dubbed it an "unloved" car)
1973: 33K
1974: 43K
1975: 102K
1976: 132K
1977: 148K
Civic crossed the 200K unit sales mark in 1985, and the 300K unit sales mark in 1997.
What makes it all more impressive is that Honda accomplished these numbers by attracting individual buyers like you and me, instead of sending vehicles to fleet. Honda is still the stingiest of major automakers in terms of fleet sales (about 2%). So, the company managed to make inroads into people's heart by being something different and in many ways, unique.
Huyndai is now romancing the rental car companies like Toyota did.
So now, the dismal resale values will become even worse as the rental fleets are dumped en masse at the auctions when they are a year or so old!
These can be great buys! Not bad cars that have deperciated horribly in their first year!
If I were inclined to buy a Korean car, I would definatly find one of these to buy.
ACE (Advanced Compatibility Engineering) is about proper dispersion of forces against larger (higher) and heavier vehicles, that goes beyond simply running into a barrier for IIHS/NHTSA standardized tests.
In case of SUVs (for example, in RDX and MDX), ACE incorporates a design to catch/engage the bumper of a smaller/lower vehicles so the chance to be run over them is minimized. So the idea isn't to show better numbers for a Honda or Acura, but to help lesser vehicles on the road survive. Which standardized test measures that?
There are no standardized tests that account for these, yet it is a part of Honda's design. And as always, Honda did a poor job in marketing its design. To a normal person, ACE simply sounds like any other approach to doing better in crash tests.
Nuff said.
I like the style of the 08 Accord even better, but the part I like best is the side view--which even most admirers have to admit pays homage to the BMW 5-series. There's nothing wrong with copying great cars, at least imho.
And in terms of packaging, the Sonata is very strong. It has almost as much passenger room inside as the 08 Accord (I think the Accord has a bit more room in some areas, like headroom, but not much), but the Sonata's trunk is substantially bigger (2 cubic feet, I think), all with a length that is about 5 inches shorter than the 08 Accord.
The engine of the Sonata is good, but the engine of the 08 Accord a little better. The 4 cylinder Sonata has 162 hp, while the 4 cylinder Accord has 177 hp in the LX/LXP version, and 190 hp in the EX/EXL version. And the LX Accord, even though it is a bigger car, actually weighs slightly less than the GLS Sonata (I believe there's more high-strength/high grade steel in the Accord, in fact the Accord is getting closer to having as much high-strength steel as a Mercedes). In both versions, the 08 Accord gets 1 more mpg in the city with the manual transmission than the Sonata. So, slightly higher mpg, more power, and a little more room inside with the Accord. It's marginal, but I'd say the Accord has better engineering overall. But it does cost more than the Sonata, no doubt about it.
You pay a lot for those small differences, but overall I think Honda's engineering is just slightly superior.
I should know as I traded my V8 Caprice for a Civic CVCC back in late 1970's...Fenders, hood, trunk, doors of Civic rusted out within 6 yrs up north despite rustproofing. Great memories!
Besides, that also helps make the point I did earlier... Honda wasn't like everybody else, copying and competing. It was the unique approach, and winning heart by design and engineering. Do you disagree? If you do, you would actually contradict yourself because if Honda weren't unique, why did people WANT a brand new entry that was Honda?
They don't. The second buyer gets the full benefit of the remaining 5-year, 60,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. Which is 2 years and 24,000 miles longer than the Accord's bumper-to-bumper warranty.
Say someone sells their three-year old Sonata with 36,000 miles on it. The next owner gets a factory bumper-to-bumper warranty for two years/24,000 miles. If an Accord owner sells his car after 3 years/36,000 miles, all the next owner gets is 2 years and 24,000 miles of powertrain warranty.
Question: who got the better warranty: the 2nd Sonata owner, or the 2nd Accord owner?
Extended warranties are available on used Sonatas also. So the fact you can buy one on an Accord--or pay more for a used Accord that has an extended warranty automatically applied--is not a big deal.
The sled used in the IIHS side impact test is designed to mimic the height and weight of a small truck or SUV--one reason it's a tougher test than the NHTSA's test.
To a normal person, ACE simply sounds like any other approach to doing better in crash tests.
I suppose that may be true... but it was not said by anyone here, except you just now. I do think there is a correlation between what Honda has done with the Accord's structure with ACE and its ability to get good scores on the standardized crash tests. If you disagree, fine. But it's clear that Honda cares very much about getting good crash test scores, so I have no doubt they were thinking about them when they designed the 2008 Accord. And I'm glad they did.
An Accord buyer sells his car after 4 years/50K miles and it goes for sale as a certified used car. The new owner gets 3-years/50K miles powertrain warranty (and 1-year/12K mile on everything else).
How about Sonata? Well, 50K miles disqualifies it from being considered as certified, as it has exceeded the maximum allowance of 4-years/48K miles. :sick:
Why?
ACE is about minimizing the impact from size difference between crashing vehicles, as well as incorporating pedestrian protection. It takes a lot more to do that (and something that won’t be reflected in crash tests) than to design a car around a standard sled.
Of course Honda would like to see good crash test results too, but that’s not why they came up with ACE. See my example on Civic above. Is there a difference in 5-star with ACE versus 5-stars without?
Just to give you an idea, Michelin Challenge Design at NAIAS had 260 entries from 51 countries. The theme was focusing on safety not only for the occupants of vehicles, but everyone who shares the road. From a related article:
“We asked participants to design vehicles, incorporating safety features not only for the vehicle occupants, but also for others who share the road. We challenged designers to consider how vehicles interact with vehicles of other sizes and types and to emphasize accident avoidance, occupant protection and pedestrian safety”
And that is where ACE comes into play. And in fact, ACE was a winner (Civic’s ACE structure was showcased). You won’t find this as a star ratings on the window sticker. It is more about awareness than a selling point, at least at this time.
But, seeing those stars (no pun intended) might not be telling you everything. For example, 2003-2007 Accord’s front side impact rating has 4-stars. While 2005-2007 Sonata has 5-stars. Does that make Sonata safer? Let us look more closely at the details for the front/side test (Accord/Sonata)
Head Injury Criterion: 216/265
Thoracic Trauma Index: 62/55
Pelvis Deceleration: 65/75
Interestingly enough, Accord is safer on two of three counts, and relatively close in the third. But the stars that you see (again, no pun intended) doesn’t consider the pelvic and head injury.
Welcome to the world of standardized tests, and counting stars.
Give credit to where it's due. If one person buys a maglight which has a lifetime warranty and he buys a regular flashlight that doesn't have a warranty which one would make him feel more at ease?
It's the one with a longer warranty. Regardless of the fact that one's superior to another, it's the perception of the people that Hyundai wanted to challenge.
So they challenged it. They laid aside a budget for warranty repairs and they didn't even need to use all of it. They took the risk and perhaps that risk FORCED them to build higher quality cars.
People still prefer to buy Honda's over Hyundai. So therefore Hyundai dealers are FORCED to lowering prices below MSRP and selling for way cheaper than Honda's.
So who benefits from that? The customer or more specifically the Hyundai customer.
Please be fair with your assessments about other car companies. I've owned a new Civic that's been nothing but problems before (and that i was FORCED to sell) so I'm familiar with both Hyundai and Honda products. By the time I needed repairs for the Civic, my warranty barely expired. Bad luck perhaps, but also a bad warranty.
You are right, the best warranty is the one you'll never have to use. To bad I had to use it on the Honda but it wasn't available.
By the way, I paid $4,000 more on the Honda than the Hyundai Elantra. After repair bills, I made about $3,000 on resale. Bought the Elantra and never had to look back. Still have 30,000 miles left on the warranty and hopefully never will have to use it, but if I do, atleast I have one to use. So give me all the dealership rhetoric you want, I'll take substance over style anyday.
Hmm... If I had to do it again, which one would I choose?
1970: 4K (apparently, it was launched sometime in 1970)
1971: 9K
1972: 21K
That car may have actually helped buyers consider Civic (CVCC) when it was offered as the first mainstream model in 1973. I'm actually surprised Honda sold 600 in 1971/72 because it was basically a mid-60s designed and had been replaced by 800 in the late 60s. Unless, a few were just brought into the USA. Technically, and the ways I see it, CVCC (later called Civic) really defined Honda's entry in the USA as an automotive brand.
And if Honda wasn't alone, why is it that only Honda had a runaway success? As you say, Subaru was a flop (why?), and Datsun was around (where is it now?).
Here's the link announcing it...
Hyundai CPO Program
A few of the highlights:
· Powertrain 10 year/100,000 mile warranty
· 150-Point Inspection
· $50 deductible
· Vehicles up to five model years old with less than 60,000 miles are eligible
· Roadside assistance
· Rental car coverage (up to $35/day for up to 10 days)
· Towing coverage (up to $75 per occurrence)
· Travel breakdown coverage (up to $375 per occurrence) · Diagnostics
· Related damage for specific parts
· Fluids
· New car financing rates through Hyundai Motor Financing Company
Additional options available to the Certified Pre-Owned Limited Warranty include service contracts such as the Hyundai Certified Pre-Owned Wrap Contract which raises the comprehensive coverage on non-powertrain components, Hyundai Vehicle Care Maintenance Program and Hyundai Road Hazard Tire and Wheel option.
I think that stacks up pretty well against the Honda CPO program.
But using Maglight as an example, I would much rather have a Maglight with a 90 day warranty than a Korean flashlight with a lifetime warranty. I know it would be VERY unlikly tha Maglight would ever give me trouble.
Maybe FORCED was a strong word but they HAD to do SOMETHING in an attempt to build a bit of confidence in what had been a pretty lackluster product. It was a smart (and necessary) marketing move.
I'm sorry you had such a troublesome Civic. This is normally NOT the case.
Kingsaloms Civic experience would not deter me from purchasing a Civic or other Honda product. But if I knew of someone first hand who had these troubles, I would really give the purchase pause.
I agree with your above assessment, BTW.
...People still prefer to buy Honda's over Hyundai. So therefore Hyundai dealers are FORCED to lowering prices below MSRP and selling for way cheaper than Honda's.
king of counteraction?
that this is precisely the point. Its YOURE view. Not everyone's criteria is the same for a vehicle and both the sonata and accord cater to 2 different types...come on its obvious isn't it? at least if you been reading all of the pages and pages of this thread...
though looks don't matter much to people all the time, the Sonata's body design wins over any Accord built from any model year by Honda. Just does. Plain fact. And no, Hyundai isn't copying the Accord. There are so many design differences in the two cars that it's really a silly argument.
lets anazlye this, if looks don't matter, why does it matter if TO YOU the sonatas body design wins over any accords ever? Isn't that statement just an OPINION anyway?
Hyundai themselves admitted they benchmarked the accord. Heck all you need is eyes to know it, its not a big deal, as kdshapiro mentioned that 'copying' isn't neccesarily a bad thing, but even hyundaiphiles will have to admit that hyundai DID get a little more than just 'inspiration' from the accords design.
To through in my own little bit of .02, NO hyundai ever looked as good as the Cb7 (91-93) accord. :P
Without mentioning a Kia Optima in this thread. Even once
that was once.
Or they would rely on public transportation.