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Reminds me of a bumper bash test (IIHS) from a few years ago when a vehicle did very poorly. The automaker provided another with a few tweaks and it got a high score. I wonder what they did. Take a guess.
A whole bunch of posts have been removed - please look around. If one or more of yours is missing, understand that if you continue to disrupt this discussion you won't be able to post here anymore.
I guess imitation is flattery?
You can sure tell which market they are after!
Go lookup the history of both companies and their logos.
You guys use copy so freely nowadays.
" You guys use copy so freely nowadays"
??? Sorry, that went over my head.
Anyone want to do that?
I diligently take loving care of the exterior of all my cars...Zaino on a more than regular basis. They all seem to keep their shine year after year.
Since the possible mid-model changes have been mentioned, I'm really wanting to like the Sonata when/if they occur. They seem to address most of the things that turn me away from the car.
So, what I'm asking...especially for those that have had the Sonata for a while, is how well does the paint seem to hold up?
I would absolutely hate spending all the time keeping the exterior up, only to have above the ordinary fading or, worse yet, oxidation occur.
"Make no mistake: the Honda Accord is a terrific automobile no matter how it comes, but it also compels us to consider something we don’t think about too often: at what point does horsepower become truly superfluous? Especially as fuel efficiency and low emissions, both longstanding hallmarks of the Honda brand, become more important than ever before, we are looking for cars that are both fun to drive and easy on the earth.
We just found one."
This is from the article. C'mon guys, do I have to say it? Surely a Sonata owner will correct this error!?
You have an open mind to progress that can be made by a manufacturer. Like babies, every company has to start walking before it can run with the others. That's why Toyota's CEO has said that he is more concerned about the Koreans than the domestics or Europeans. My other car is a Honda Ody and with my Sonata side by side in my garage, I do not see any significant quality differences between the 2 internally or externally. The 2 "H"'s, one straight/vertical and other flying/slanted, do complement each other.
Being a lead footer, I do know that the Sonata, at a measured 0 - 60 mph of 6.6 secs by C & D, is much faster than the already quick for a minivan time of 7.6 secs measured (by C & D) for the Ody. They are both equally fun to drive as well.
For 2007 year comparo, I do know that the Sonata had the largest interior volume size at 105 cub feet for passenger and 16 cu feet for the trunk. I believe that the 2008 Accord is now larger with similar interior size. This is full size territory and it feels like it.
In fact, with a starting price of $20,995, the Accord is the second least expensive full-size automobile available today. We’re sure that’s no accident, as size matters in America as it does in no other country in the world.
And Hyundai has two full-size cars. The Sonata and the Azera.
I don't think EPA specifies the standard. I learnt about this a few years ago, while reading a European article on the issue. A Ford cargo van was the test mule, and due to varying standards used, there was 10-15% difference in quoted cargo volume depending on the method used.
This issue is similar to quoting payload/towing capacity on trucks. Some might include a driver and a passenger or two with some stuff. Others may just have the driver. It all makes a difference.
To quote an example, the new Mercedes C350 has a whopping 16.8 cu ft trunk. But, that is using SAE standard. With VDA method (used by MB and Honda, and many European automakers who will often quote both numbers) the same trunk "shrinks" to just 12.4 cu ft.
The problem: Very few are aware of this.
The final decision on any particular car choice depends on one or some of the various personal reasons discussed at length in this forum. These include, but are not limited to practicality, value for money/size/features, perceived superiority of chosen vehicle/make/ brand loyalty/diving fun/quality/reliability, etc.
We have both the vertical H and the flying H in our garages. They are both in the family and enjoyable for their intended purposes. An open mind to changes and progress with the times.
Maybe there should be another term called full/mid size.
I do not have an open mind when it comes to buying cars and stocks. If however, you will give me the car and stocks I will keep an open mind. As a consumer I don't require an "open" mind to get what I believe is the best value for my dollar.
Never been a sugar daddy in my life and don't intend to be one.
As always, "many ways to skin a cat"
Accord - Likes:
* Powerful yet economical engines
* 5-speed automatic on the I4
* Clear gauges
* Quality feel to controls
* Interior room
* Standard safety features
* Comfortable driving position, even with manual seat
* Good blend of ride and handling
Accord - Dislikes:
* Exterior size
* Front-end styling
* Feature content for the price
* Tire noise when cruising on freeway
* Small trunk
* No 60/40 rear seat
* Cheap looking plastic wheel covers (LX)
* Lack of lumbar support (LX)
* Plain interior (LX and LX-P)
* No side mouldings
* Short warranty
Sonata - Likes:
* Clear gauges
* Quality feel to controls
* Interior room
* Standard safety features
* Comfortable driving position (with power seat)
* Smooth, quiet ride
* Manumatic transmission
* Large trunk with access via 60/40 rear seat
* Exterior styling, including decent-looking wheel covers on GLS
* Feature content for the price
* Side mouldings
* Long warranty, with 5 years of roadside assistance
Sonata - Dislikes:
* No 5-speed automatic on I4
* Dated dash design compared to some competitors and newer Hyundai models
* No telescopic wheel on GLS
* Non-folding side mirrors
* Driving position not comfortable with manual seat
So, the question remains: given the choice between a Sonata and Accord of equal price, but much more content on the Sonata, or a Sonata equipped like an Accord plus $4000+ in cash--which would I take? Unless something changes (e.g. the price gap narrows considerably or the Accord aces the IIHS crash tests), the answer is still "Sonata".
A) leave that dealership for another just for the ignorance or
If you're a sleeping dealer, wake up and smell what your competition is cooking. Better for your business as well.
As for all of you Hondites who are accusing Backy of his biases, look at the research he did. And try to understand his reasoning instead of attacking him and his biases. Having a bias is irrelevant. If it doesn't make sense, point out where it doesn't make sense.
If you want to shoot down the facts go right ahead come up with your own. I don't see any of you come up with numbers or figures. Just opinions laced with wonderful generalities.
You get less resale value, but you pay way less to begin with.
Also put into factor, the risk of totaling your car. Hopefully this wouldn't happen to you all, but reality is that it does happen and it's bound to happen to a percentage of Americans who buy cars. (My brother in law is paying for a Civic he totalled a couple months ago)
If you buy a cheaper car, you'd have to pay less for a car that you totaled. It's a drag whether it's a Hyundai or a Honda but one person ends up having to pay a lot more for the same fact. A car they can't drive. My brother in Law would have saved 3-4 dollars if he listened to me and bought an Elantra.
I like what Hyundai says in one of their advertisements.
"Think about it. Shouldn't you drive a car that inflates your intelligence, not your ego?" one spot asks. Another: "Are car companies committed to quality? Or to the phrase, `committed to quality?'"
I've gone to dealers who say that Honda or Toyota doesn't need to use their warranties, and the best warranty is the one they don't need to use. True statement, but back it up by giving your customers the great warranty that they don't need to use.
Honda talks a big talk but they don't back it up by carrying a big stick. They may have all the muscles(perceived quality) but they don't back it up with the goods(warranty).
Hyundai may not have the flexing power(and definitely don't have the perceived quality), but they're willing to back up their talk with their walk. Whether they get beat up in the process is irrelevant. They made a statement and backed it up with action. That's respect to me.
I have an Elantra that I never used a warranty for and is running great! But if I had a Honda, I'd already be out of it. :surprise:
It may be silly to some, but that was a another factor for me in my decision. More than 350,000 Accords are sold every year, dealers are everywhere, and service and parts are readily available. That's not quite as true with Hyundai.
Also, for those able to afford the higher trims, there are features that you can get on the Accord that aren't available on the Sonata, like Navigation, Bluetooth, etc.
The Sonata looks like a very safe car, but my guess is that the ACE body structure Honda uses is even more advanced.
Still, if I was on a tighter budget, I probably would have bought the Sonata. As far as I can tell you can get one for 16k, and for that price you just can't beat it, which is why I'm surprised they aren't selling more of them.
It's nice that the Sonata has a loyal following, as is proved by the posts on this thread!
I think ONE time (that I know of)I had a customer buy a Sante Fe over a CRV. I also realize that in othr parts of the country Hyundai may have a stronger presence and that they could become stronger here. for the time being, they impact me very little.
As far as Backy's research, a lot of his comments were strictly subjective and reflect his opinion. I for one, dislike ugly side mouldings on a car but apparantly he likes them. Just as an example.
That said, people should drive what they like and if Korean cars are your cup of tea, great!
I keep hearing about this wonderful warranty. If the cars are so good (like yours is)this warranty isn't such a big deal, is it?
Remember, The Koreans were forced into offering these warranties in an attempt to build some perception of quality after their initial offerings.
You PAY for that warranty anyway. It's built into the price of the car.
A lot of hyundaiphiles praise the excellent warranty, which it is, but if the car is as well behaved as many claim, how good of an argument is it? Why is hondas long continued history of reliability suddenly thrown out the window? Because of the small fraction of posters here in town hall that have had issues who only represent a tiny minority of the car buying public?
I still think they make a good car, and are progressivley getting better, but i don't think that they have cut down everyone else at the knees.
The fact that the lx is without alloys and has smaller wheels probably contributed to the handling as well.
The name has to sound good and not silly, it can't have been used before, it can't ryhme with anything bad, can't mean anything in another language etc.
Not like the old days when Chevy had thier Biscaynes, Bel Airs and Impalas etc.
They must sit around their conference tables for HOURS throwing names around!
Honda's strong points are somehow ignored, discounted or twisted into negatives and their issues blown out of proportion with regard to comparisons against Sonota.
A lot of people can't stand that and are quick to defend an underdog. That's not necessarly a "bad" thing but it's reality.
Some people just won't buy a Honda or a Toyota because they want to be different than the masses.
I guess that's not a "bad" thing either and were it not for that, everyone would still be driving domestic cars.
If Honda can't make the Accord handle the way it should with 16" tires and steel wheels, that's not my problem. The 17" tires may grip a little better, but I don't see how the alloys would help. Lots of people will buy the LX and LX-P trim with 16" tires. Shouldn't they get great handling too--which is one of the main advantages of the Accord over some other mid-sizers, like the Sonata?
You make a good point that some features available on the Accord are not available today on the Sonata, e.g. factory navigation and Bluetooth. That will be changed next spring, but for now people who want factory nav will have to look past the Sonata. Although people who want features like XM radio on an I4 car, or fog lamps on a lower-end trim, or leather without a moonroof, or a manumatic transmission, or a 60/40 rear seat, or heated seats w/o leather etc. will need to look beyond the Accord--maybe to the Sonata?
I am curious to see how the new Accord with its ACE structure fares in the IIHS tests. I expect it will do very well.
I saw an Accord EX with dealer-applied side mouldings last night and I thought they looked very good--much better than I thought they would. But they cost $255. The same car had several other dealer-installed options, including fog lamps for about $410, a rear spoiler (can't remember how much but it was pricey), some interior trim that included some very tasteful looking rosewood-color, matte-finish wood grain trim on the dash (but I'm not sure what else), and a few other add-ons. $1800 worth. The side mouldings, fog lamps, rear spoiler, and wood trim (albeit not as nice) are all standard on the Sonata SE that starts under $20k.
I prefer side mouldings on cars because I find people are not very courteous in parking lots, and parking spaces seem to be getting smaller all the time. I don't know how many dings the side mouldings on my cars have saved over the years. So I don't like the recent trend (not just Accord but Camry and some newer Hyundai models) to take off the side mouldings--then charge $200-300 to put them back on.
Overall, however, I don't think the Sonata sells more than about 100,000 a year in the US. And total Hyundai sales are about 400,000.
Honda has been selling well over a million vehicles a year in the US for a while.
Now big isn't always better, but there's a certain convenience in having parts and service available almost everywhere. Just in case, of course. In the 5+ years I've owned my 02 Accord it's needed nothing but regular maintenance.
Of course Honda started out small too. I expect Hyundai will continue to grow in the US. After all, they make good cars at a great price.
Having XM standard on the Sonata is great. That's something I really wanted in a car, and to get it on the Honda you have to go all the way to the EXL, which is almost $10,000 more than the base Sonata with XM.
ACE isn't designed for IIHS or NHTSA tests. This would be a prime example that at least a few automakers out there aren't tailoring their cars to meet standardized tests (another would be pedestrian safety, which isn't even tested in the USA, but Honda is incorporating those design elements in its vehicles).
Honda has over 10 years' head start on Hyundai in the U.S. It's understandable they sell more cars here than Hyundai does.
There are about as many Hyundai dealers in my area as Honda dealers, but I know that is not the case all over the U.S.
An Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure disperses frontal crash energy over a wide area, helping keep it away from passengers.
Since one of the IIHS tests is a frontal crash (also there's a frontal NHTSA test), I would think that the ACE body structure would help the Accord get excellent marks in that test.
I am really not sure what you mean or are implying by saying that some automakers are tailoring their cars to meet standardized tests. Do you mean that they are doing something to the cars such that they receive good marks on crash tests, but those tweaks don't help protect passengers in real-world crashes? Do you have evidence that Hyundai is doing that with the Sonata? (You've already implied Honda isn't doing it with the Accord.) If so, I'd say they aren't doing a very good job of it, given that the Sonata is rated only "Acceptable" on the IIHS side crash test. If not, then why bring it up (multiple times) in this discussion?
Of course there is no warranty price added into the price of the Hondas.
As for me, I would rather have a warranty and never use it than not have one hoping that I would never need it.
van
Total cost of ownership is the important thing.
People who are wound up on the length of a warranty are people who will buy a Hyundai. They just don't realize that they just roll the expected costs of warranty repairs into the price of the cars. They have to.
But, hey, if that makes you feel better...
And, once again, though looks don't matter much to people all the time, the Sonata's body design wins over any Accord built from any model year by Honda. Just does. Plain fact. And no, Hyundai isn't copying the Accord. There are so many design differences in the two cars that it's really a silly argument.
Nuff said. Sonata wins by a longshot. Without mentioning a Kia Optima in this thread. Even once.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick