Hyundai Sonata vs Honda Accord

isellhondas

I know which forums to stay out of...usually.

Five speed Accords are poor sellers both as new and, later, as used cars.

Still, I can't imagine what a dog on the lot a used Hyundai with a stick would be!

robertsmx

Which TMV are you comparing? (dealer trade-in, or pvt party or dealer retail)

Let us put it this way. If you were to buy a year old Sonata GLS/5MT with 15K miles on it, what price would you be willing to pay? Or, if you were selling one, what price would you expect to get on it?

backy

Private party, as that is what Edmunds uses in their TCO numbers for "value in X years" numbers.

Assuming I'd want a Sonata GLS with MT (see previous post re DW and clutches), for a car in excellent condition with the remainder of the bumper-to-bumper warranty, I'd pay $12k easy, maybe a little more. Consider what you can get new for that kind of money--a stripped subcompact.

robertsmx

Looks like you would pay more than I would. $12K is darn close to what I could get for a brand new GLS/5MT and with 10 years/100K mile warranty (you would get 4 years/45K miles on used).

backy

It's abour $3000 difference from new, before tax. An extended warranty on the used car would run around $1000, but would bring it up to 10 years, 100k bumper to bumper (I bought one of those on a used MPV last year).

If you know where to get a brand-new 2007 Sonata GLS for darn close to $12k, please let us know! BTW, if a Sonata GLS can be had new for about $12k, that brings the TCO on it down to around 41 cents a mile, maybe less.

maxamillion1

GLS and SE Sonata's might be considered as long as they include power sunroofs. Leather can be added.

But the LX and LX-P won't be considered because I've got to have a sunroof. LOL That's one feature I'll never let go of, unless, of course, I get a convertible. lol

I'm not a fan of the Elantra per se, even if it is a "midsize" it still seems to small for me.

flc2006

I have told you when you buy a Sonata you get it all up front plus twice the warranty coverage on the power-train, with a Honda or Toyota just to get the 10 year warranty for power-train you would have to spend over $3,000 to get that type of warranty, Accord has name, nothing else in my opinion, i cannot justify spending over $5,000 to get resale value, i recently did a kelly blue book private party value on a 2000 sonata 4 cylinder and Accord LX 4 cylinder it was only $2,000-3000 less than the accord, in my opinion you saved over $7,000 with the sonata vs the accord, give me the sonata any day over the accord, i rather save up front than later.

backy

Another data point: Edmunds has the TMV for a year-old Sonata GLS MT with 15,000 miles and no options, in excellent condition, at $14,218 for a private-party sale. Adding a power seat (which comes in a package with a bunch of other goodies) brings the TMV only to $14,325, so that would be the way to go I think. Looks like my $12k target might be a little unrealistic! Also shows that Edmunds is a little inconsistent, with their TCO calculator saying that the car is worth only $11,625 in a private party sale after one year and 15k miles, and that's with the power seat package plus a moonroof.

fourteen14

Anyone considering a Sonata should look at the Azera! The Azera is so much nicer than the Sonata for just a little more money!

Also, don't compare an Accord to a Sonata! If you are looking for something nicer than the Accord, look at the Azera!! I recently checked out the 2008 Accords to see if that was an upgrade from my Azera. No way! Not even close! The Azera was superior in nearly every way except 'respect for the brand', and that will change when people learn what an excellent car and excellent value the Azera really is!!

On a recent one week trip we rented a Sonata. We couldn't wait to get home, and back into our Azera!! It's a quantum leap!!

elroy5

Even if the Sonata's True Cost to Own was lower than the Accord (which I really doubt), would it be enough to make average Joe buy the Sonata instead of the Accord. Most of the time, NO. When you have to start adding and subtracting options (power seat, and other goodies), to validate your TCO, you're getting deeper than most people are willing to go.

elroy5

11 exclamation points. Getting a little over excited, are we? Resorted to degrading the siblings now? Bad karma.

godeacs

So you admit a $10K price difference was "generous". I'd say your $8K figure is generous too! No way is the normal going price for a loaded Sonata w/V6 under $20K. Not sure where you live BUT I can tell you that price is a "pipedream" here in Texas....

PS I am VERY impressed you pay cash for cars and don't have a mortgage....as well as the return you claim to get on your "investments". Most of us are not that lucky! :sick:

iluvmysephia1

If not for the fun of using exclamation marks where would we be, eh? Getting cars you want and like and are thrilled about are part of what coming to Edmunds is all about!

There may be a point there. The Hyundai Azera is bound to "feel" a tad more comfortable on the road than the Sonata. Is there a large gas mileage difference? If you take a 2007 Hyundai Sonata with a V6 engine and automatic tranny vs. a 2007 Hyundai Azera with a V6 and an automatic tranny what are the differences in mpg? Bet they're not large. Price? You're probably gonna have to give at least $4,000 more for the comparo Azera's than the comparo Sonata's I've described above.

Anybody know the answer to the question I am painting here. It may be true that looking to an Azera or a new Genesis even may be the right move for you. I'm happy as a clam in this little Rally Red Lancer GTS so I'm not in the market. But for those of you who are, what are your thoughts on this?

thegraduate

If you take a 2007 Hyundai Sonata with a V6 engine and automatic tranny vs. a 2007 Hyundai Azera with a V6 and an automatic tranny what are the differences in mpg? Bet they're not large.

19/28 for Sonata V6 (3.3L) (2008 model from fueleconomy.gov)
17/26 for Azera (3.8L) (2007* model - MPG converted to new standard, from fueleconomy.gov)

Don't forget there is a 3.3L model of the Azera now available.

*No 2008 Azera MPG was available on fueleconomy.gov.

cxc

“But if you want to trust Edmunds' numbers, these are interesting:

Accord value after 5 years: $8794
Sonata value after 5 years: $5992
Difference: $2802

So that leads to a question: if someone can buy the Sonata for $4000-5000 less than the Accord, …”

Let us take into account time value of money. If we assume that 8% for the sum of inflation (3%) and lost opportunity (5%), the above statement will be

Accord value after 5 years: $6023 (Today’s money value)
Sonata value after 5 years: $4105 (Today’s money value)
Difference: $1920 (Today’s money value)

So that leads to a question: if someone can buy the Sonata for $5840-7300 (Money value after 5 years) less than the Accord, …”

targettuning

I couldn't have said it better. You have pointed out a truth many here will not stand for and that is...Honda, Toyota, Datsun (Nissan now since they even had to make the name itself sound less Japanese in the beginning) and Subaru all had less than stellar beginnings. They were the ultimate in being mismatched for U.S.A. driving and climate conditions. Virtually all early models of any of those brands rusted into oblivion within a couple of years here in the north east "rust belt". The were the text book definition of "cheap" with cardboard door trim and rubber floor mats. Yeah, I owned many a Subaru in the early days starting with a 1979 4wd wagon. Rust was a constant companion and it couldn't have been more noisy if one rode on the roof. The early 80's models weren't much (make that any) better in terms of rust. Same with Honda, Toyota et.al. They were an alternative to the VW beetle in the beginning and in that they suceeded. The VW bug was the worst car ever made in terms of...well anything except initial cost and winter traction (and yes I owned a 1963 bug). Anyhow, the point here is, and I have said it before, Honda, Toyota et.al. have had decades to refine their cars (and reputation) to the point they now have "blind" repeat buyers who will defend the "fact" that they are "worth" the extra thousands over relative newcomers such as Hyundai and Kia. I personally do not believe this to be true but in 2002 when I bought our first Hyundai product I too was a bit reluctant. I took a chance and was not disappointed. I will also say I recently took a chance (some will say "what chance?") and bought a 2006 Civic. Unlike the previous Hyundai products I must report that I AM disappointed in Honda. Go figure!!

isellhondas

You are assuming these cars will bring "book" values.

In the case of anything Hyundai, theye are always "back of book" cars. Ask anyone in the business.

Another reason why they can be very good values as USED cars!And, the best warranty is the one you never have to use!

targettuning

So what?? Many models are made here just as many Honda and Toyota and Subaru and Nissan models are made in the USA. It is a Korean company more than a Korean car these days.
You paint a pretty broad stroke with the "most people" comments as well..both of them.

isellhondas

I base my comments on my experiences with them. That's all.

targettuning

No bias ha...ha...ha...ha...this coming from you??? Ha...ha..ha..ha...
Sorry Pat something just made me laugh which as you all know is good for your health. A good joke indeed.

targettuning

Then why the broad terms you use? "Most people" indeed? Lets narrow that to you then.

isellhondas

"Most people" shun them as used cars?

Because that is the truth...fact. They appeal to very few.

This doesn't make them "bad" cars, just the reality.

kdshapiro

That still begs the question of why people pay a "supposed" premium for the "same" car. Maybe the general public understands they are not the "same" car and paying a "premium" gets them a "better" car for their money.

robertsmx

If you take a 2007 Hyundai Sonata with a V6 engine and automatic tranny vs. a 2007 Hyundai Azera with a V6 and an automatic tranny what are the differences in mpg?

It would depend on whether you’re relying on EPA rating or real world fuel economy. In most cases, it doesn’t make a difference if a car is heavier or is more powerful because shift points may be configured to excel in EPA test procedures for better numbers on the spec sheet. This is why some cars fail to meet EPA ratings in reality while others have no trouble beating them.

backy

I was following you until the last statement: "So that leads to a question: if someone can buy the Sonata for $5840-7300 (Money value after 5 years) less than the Accord,...". This statement is confusing because you aren't buying the car five years from now--you are buying it today. If you spend $4000-5000 less today for a Sonata vs. an Accord, you can invest that money, or use it to pay off interest-bearing debts. So the $4000-5000 will grow over five years. At the end of five years, the person who bought the Sonata will have an additional $5840-7300 in the bank or whereever. (I am trusting your figures here, I didn't verify them.) And they'll have a car worth, according to Edmunds.com, $5992 at that time (or $4105 in today's dollars, per your calculations). The Accord owner will have a car worth $8794 per Edmunds.com, or $6023 in today's dollars. So the Accord will be worth $1918 more five years from now, in today's dollars, or $2802 more in future dollars. But the Sonata owner will have $4000-5000 extra cash in today's dollars, and $5840-7300 more cash in future dollars. Either way you look at it, the Sonata owner comes out ahead. Is that what you were trying to say?

backy

I agree the Azera is an interesting alternative to the V6 Accord, given they have similar power. And both are full sized by EPA classifications, but the Azera is roomier with a bigger trunk, yet shorter than the Accord. And with nicer styling inside and out, IMO, plus many features not available on the Accord such as 8 airbags, rear window shade, and memory seat. The Accord will out-handle the Azera, but I would expect the Azera to have the smoother ride. Yes, an interesting comparison... but not for this discussion.

isellhondas

I've never even heard of an "Azera"??

Guess I must be sleeping or something.

Where do they come up with these names, anyway?

And, sorry but the Accord do come with 8 airbags. All of them!

backy

2 front airbags
2 side airbags
2 curtain bags (one per side)

That's six by my count. Or did the Accord add rear side airbags for 2008? (Azera has those.)

I am surprised that a car salesman like you doesn't keep up with his compeititors (yes, I know what you'll say about that, but Hyundai is a competitor, whether you like it or not). Azera was introduced nearly 2 years ago. You should take a look at it sometime--maybe at your next local auto show--just walk on over to the Hyundai display for a few minutes.

isellhondas

Well, it's time for a recount...I though you knew so much about Accords? Guess not...

Side Curtain airbags first showed up in some 2003 Accords and by 2005, they were standard. All four of them.

So...let's see....I think that makes EIGHT? Right?

To me, Hyundai is in a different playing field than Honda or Toyota so I don't really give them much thought.

Azera?? Maybe someday I'll see one on the road?

backy

There's no need to be condescending... especially when you, as a Honda sales rep, don't even know how many airbags are in the cars you sell. There's six in the Accord: two in front, one on the side of each front seat back, and two curtain airbags (one on each side of the car).

This demo from Honda's web site makes it clear that there's one curtain airbag on each side of the car:

http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/features.aspx?feature=sidecurtain

Azera has these airbags plus, in addition, torso airbags on each side of the rear seat.

Maybe someday Accord will have 8 airbags. But not today.

thegraduate

A problem a lot of people have with Honda dealers (and Toyota dealers). I'm a two-Honda owner, but that superiority complex/attitude has driven me away from what used to be a very friendly dealership - it now has new ownership and I can't stand the people there.

People at the Ford dealer near my home were much more down-to-earth and friendly and didn't give me an attitude, even though I'm only 20 and pulled up in a 12 year old car.

targettuning

And you know these statements to be "facts"...how? All your assertions are based on no "facts" whatever.

targettuning

Great research..blast Hyundai but you don't even know the names of the models they sell. I'm sure you are objective on the subject.

isellhondas

Not a "superiority complex/attitude". I just haven't seen one.

isellhondas

I never blasted Huyndai!

I don't know the name of every Buick model on the road either!

isellhondas

I have no idea what you are talking about.

isellhondas

I simply stated that I had no idea what an Azera is because I've never seen one that I know of.

Try to forget the fact I happen to sell Hondas if you can.

I think that if you stopped the average person on the street and asked them if they know what an Azera is or who makes them, they wouldn't know.

Am I saying they are bad cars? Not at all!

isellhondas

You added a word to my statement that I never said and that one word makes a huge difference.

I never said on the SIDE of the road as in "broken down". I said ON the road as in "cruising down the highway" alongside me.

Big difference.

thegraduate

Sure did, and that changes everything. I could've sworn you said otherwise, which is why I was so put off (guess my little eyes are tired from school and work huh?)

My apologies, isell.

I got rid of the messeges that I could that were based on that mis-wording which was completely my fault.

isellhondas

Easy to have this happen in forums like this.

No apology needed but thanks anyway!

thegraduate

My point I made earlier about arrogant Honda dealers is still true (my dealer is now a problem - they have new ownership and new workers). But, my mistake made you the bad guy, and that shouldn't have been the case. ANYWAY, back to the vehicles.

elroy5

Backy, my 03 Accord has 8 airbags, all clearly labeled (three on each side, and two in front). Try to check your information before posting please. This is not the first time you've said the Accord doesn't have something, when it certainly does, and has for 5 years now.

backy

I did check my facts. The side curtain airbag is ONE BAG. This is explained very clearly on honda.com, in the automated demo for which I posted a link. Did you bother to look at that demo? The fact that there are two labels on the interior of the car, on each end of the headliner, doesn't mean that there's two separate bags in there, on each side of the car. I see the same kind of markings on EVERY CAR that has side airbags, and you know what? They all have a single bag on each side of the car. That's the way these side curtains work.

Why don't you or isellhondas post a clear reference from Honda that says the Accord has eight airbags? Otherwise, quit beating me up for posting things that I have taken time to research, and you have not--except to look inside your car and count how many little "airbag" signs there are. I am amazed sometimes about how little car owners--and car salespeople--know about their cars. :sick:

bhmr59

Here is what you said less than 2 1/2 hours before: I've never even heard of an "Azera"?? in post 491.

That's quite different than saying you don't know if you've ever seen an Azera on the road.

bhmr59

I think that if you stopped the average person on the street and asked them if they know what an Azera is or who makes them, they wouldn't know.

If you ask those same people about an Oddessey, Fit or Element, how many of them would know what you were talking about?

robertsmx

Have we finalized that Sonata doesn't stand a chance against Accord, so let us move on to Azera...

Perhaps a name change of the thread is now warranted. :shades:

backy

Maybe instead of wasting your time making really odd posts like that one, you could do a little quick research and find that reference from Honda that backs up your statement that the Accord has eight airbags. Since having eight airbags would be very unusual in the mid-sized sedan class, (Sonata only has six for example), I would think it's something Honda would tout. So it should be easy to find something in a Honda press release or on their web site about this competitive advantage.

Unless the eight airbags is only something in your dreams.

backy

Maybe you'd like to start up an "Accord vs. Azera" discussion?

If you think the Accord doesn't stand a chance against the Sonata, as in, there's no comparison, why waste your time in a discussion that's dedicated to comparing the Accord and Sonata?

backy

robertsmx is right (partly)... we need to get back to Accord vs. Sonata.

I'll have a chance to drive the new Accord on Thursday, so I'll be in a better position to compare them. Maybe I'll ask the sales rep if I can take another car and ram the Accord in the side, to find out how many side curtains there are.

slamtaz

ram the Accord in the side???

That's a No, No, No...

That will once again prove that the Accord is better than the Sonata!

Why?

Because the Accord, even the 2008 models, is rated ONLY 4 STARS on side crash safety as compared to the 5 STAR rating of the Sonata...

Which means that the driver/passengers in Accord's have 20% BETTER CHANCES OF GETTING HURT :sick: