GM News, New Models and Market Share

anythngbutgm · June 2009

The government has ruled that the new GM and Chrysler will not be held liable for vehicles sold by the old GM and Chrysler.

link title

imidazol97 · June 2009

>Citation for

Some of these Buick puns can get very Special and be Super interesting in how some people will reach for the Sky (on a) Lark and have a mind like a (Sky)hawk to come up with a pun that will last for a Century. The Regal truth is that we're just back from the Riviera and I have work to do on the Estate since I am the Road(s)master here, I have mowing to do and can't Electra(fy) anyone with more puns. I'll have a Rendevouz with bad karma for these bad puns already and I'm out of Buick names.

fho2008 · June 2009

Make sure you keep the Wildcat away from your stuffed LeSabre.

kernick · June 2009

LOL. That was so SS-pecial; I felt a Spark, nnoooo a Volt of laughter! See ya - off to my Suburban home (not in Malibu).

michaellno · June 2009

The Outlook (nay, the Vue) for GM has an Ion-ic Aura of rebirth. The Sky is the limit for the new GM.

(ducking and running now)

tlong · June 2009

GM cannot simply get rid of a model, can they?

Actually, they get rid of TOO many models. Cavalier, Chevette, Aztek, Monte Carlo, Firebird, etc.

The problem is GM needs cars they DON'T get rid of, they just update. They get rid of names but keep the same cars in different sheet metal. They should update and improve the car rather than create new names. Names are dumped because the name has no or negative value to the consumer.

tlong · June 2009

Can we stop this Avalanche of puns? :P

fezo · June 2009

Not to worry. A mere Tempest in a teapot.

michaellno · June 2009

There is a Genesis occurring at GM, with an Accent on quality.

If only Hyundai would relocate its US HQ to Santa Fe, or perhaps Tucson ...

kernick · June 2009

Isn't the world-famous Silverado ranch near Santa Fe. I know it's not the Mustang Ranch. Now that I think about it, the Silverado is by Tahoe.

dave8697 · June 2009

midsize sedans IQR:
1. Maxima
2. G6
3. Malibu

and a transferable warranty longer than anyone

imidazol97 · June 2009

>2. G6
3. Malibu

That's a good result for the Malibu.

dieselone · June 2009

and a transferable warranty longer than anyone

I've never factored warranty coverage in how I chose a vehicle and I never will. If I like the vehicle and I'm worried about reliability, I'll just buy a longer warranty. I wouldn't buy a G6 if it had a million mile bumper to bumper warranty.

stever · June 2009

It's interesting what people consider important when car shopping. I wound up in an '89 Voyager because of a special 7/70 powertrain warranty at the time. And I got a Nissan instead of a Mercury a decade later and one reason was because the Quest drivetrain warranty was 5/50 instead the Villager's 3/36. Toyota and Honda minivan warranties were similar.

For a while, VWs had a 2/24 warranty and that was enough to strike them off my list without even visiting a dealer.

The New GM could make a splash by extending the drivetrain warranty like Hyundai did.

dieselone · June 2009

And I got a Nissan instead of a Mercury a decade later and one reason was because the Quest drivetrain warranty was 5/50 instead the Villager's 3/36.

I can see making that choice as they were essentially the same vehicle, but I'd bet you probably paid more for the Nissan, than the Mercury.

I used to own a 2000 VW Jetta TDI that had the 2/24 warranty. That covered routine maintenance too, like oil changes etc. While I obviously used the maintenance plan, it never received any warranty work or cost me anything out of warranty.

stever · June 2009

but I'd bet you probably paid more for the Nissan, than the Mercury.

Maybe, but I doubt it. They were pretty proud of their Lincoln logo attached to the showroom I think. But it's too long ago to remember though. That's when I found Edmunds and I shopped everything from a MPV, Windstar, Siennas to Odysseys. First time I discovered and used the Blast Fax method. So price loomed large. I used the Plymouth warranty on 3 blown head gaskets (otherwise it was a great van for us).

Now VW touts their 12 year rust warranty which has won them some fans in New England.

Of course, if you're at the dealer all the time, even a great warranty won't make you feel much better about the brand.

cadillacmike · June 2009

What are you talking about? The CTS is larger and a better car than any BMW 3 series and costs less, same with the STS & 5 series. I'd take either Cadillac model over any lexa$$, acura or infinibucks as well.

cadillacmike · June 2009

Get your Buicks right - Lacrosse replaced LeSabre while Lucerne replaced Park Aveneue

dieselone · June 2009

What are you talking about? The CTS is larger and a better car than any BMW 3 series and costs less, same with the STS & 5 series. I'd take either Cadillac model over any lexa$$, acura or infinibucks as well.

I'll give kudo's to the CTS all day long. I really like it. That said, I don't see how it's a better car than a 3 series based on objective terms outside of getting a bigger car for less money (even though I can't sit in the back seat of a CTS w/o my head touching the roof). I can see a case made either way. If you prefer performance, a 335 will best a CTS is almost every category. GM's 3.6 just doesn't have the powerband to match the 335's 3.0-twin-turbo. I'm not talking CTS-V vs M5. Plus, you can get a diesel 335 soon if you want performance and fuel economy.

Now the STS is completely outclassed by a 5 series. Outside of styling, size and price, I don't know what a STS has over a 5 series. The Northstar isn't in the same universe as BMW's v8 in terms of power delivery, so outside of being a diehard GM fan and/or not being able to afford a 5 series, I don't know why one would want an STS other than being able to get it cheap.

andre1969 · June 2009

Get your Buicks right - Lacrosse replaced LeSabre while Lucerne replaced Park Aveneue

Nah, the LaCrosse is still a midsize W-body. Actually, in the case of both the LaCrosse and Lucerne, Buick tried to, in the words of Sheriff Buford T. Justice, kill two possums with one rock. The LaCrosse filled in for both the Century and Regal, while the Lucerne took over for both the LeSabre and Park Avenue.

In both cases though, I think the cars did move upscale a bit. For example, the cheapest LaCrosse is still a nicer car than the cheapest Century was, while the nicest LaCrosse seems more upscale than the old Regal GS. With the Lucerne though, I think it's more of a mixed bag. I definitely think the base Lucerne is nicer than the old LeSabre was, but somehow the old Park Ave just seemed to have more presence, more of a prestige factor I guess, than the top Lucerne does. Now the Lucerne gets bonus points for offering a V-8 engine, but then the Park Ave offered a supercharged V-6, so that might be a bit of a tossup.

andre1969 · June 2009

The Northstar isn't in the same universe as BMW's v8 in terms of power delivery, so outside of being a diehard GM fan and/or not being able to afford a 5 series, I don't know why one would want an STS other than being able to get it cheap.

And I think that's probably why the STS really isn't selling. FWIW, on the rare occasion that I see one, I usually mistake it for a CTS. Even though it's a bigger car, at a quick glance, I really don't notice it. I have noticed that I can barely fit in the back seat of an STS, while I don't even try with the CTS, so that's about the only difference for me. Most people don't buy cars like this for a big back seat, though. If they want a comfy, roomy car, they're going to get a DTS.

dieselone · June 2009

FWIW, on the rare occasion that I see one, I usually mistake it for a CTS.

Me too, but since my neighbor has an STS and I see it everyday, I can more easily tell the difference now.

circlew · June 2009

I'd definitely rather walk than drive the G6. :shades: In fact, when I rented one last year, I was so underwhelmed with the complete package I thought I was in a mid-80's GM. :lemon:

Regards,
OW

circlew · June 2009

The CTS is nice but a few notches down the ladder in most categories compared to the 3-series, period. I'd take any BMW over the failed GM's Cadillac Division at the present time.

But knock yourself out defending the marquee!

Regards,
OW

lemko · June 2009

When I saw the LaCrosse for the first time on Veteran's Day in 2004, I thought it was a quantum leap over the dismal Century. By 2004, the Century had HUGE numerals on the dashboard so the geriatrics could read the instruments. The interior was so barren and austere, a 1964 Chevrolet Biscayne would've seemed like a Lexus in comparison. I had a Century for a few days and the guard at my workplace stopped me because I had no sticker on the car. I explained to him, "This is a rental. Do you think I'd actually buy a car like this?" The guard laughed and waived me in. The last-generation Century was an awful namesake to the car that was once considered "The Banker's Hot Rod."

dieselone · June 2009

When I saw the LaCrosse for the first time on Veteran's Day in 2004, I thought it was a quantum leap over the dismal Century.

No doubt about that. The only good thing about the Century was they seemed to be extremely reliable. That's about the only good thing I can say about it. Guess Century was a good name in the end, because that's how old it seemed.

lemko · June 2009

Heck, I'll take any Buick over any BMW. A Buick is a lot prettier and I can depend on the Buick getting me to and from work. I also don't have to worry about the stratospheric maintenance and repair costs of that Teutonic tank. Also, I hate the image associated with BMWs. I'd rather be seen as a doddering old grandfather than an arrogant, status-seeking yuppie.

What really gets me about the 3-Series is why anybody would pay $30K+ for a teeny car that's smaller than a Corolla? For the same price or less, I can get a real car like a Buick Lucerne CXL or a Mercury Grand Marquis LS Ultimate

lemko · June 2009

I always thought "Century" referred to the average age of its drivers. The Regal was pretty redundant by 2004 as well. The Regal hadn't a real reason to exist since they dumped the super-beautiful RWD coupe after 1987. That FWD Regal was one of the STUPIDEST cars GM produced. They got rid of the awesome Grand National for this ugly little mediocre FWD travesty with the stupid door handles in the B-pillar? Yuck!!!

lemko · June 2009

Park Avenues seemed to have held their value, at least around here. I was seeing 2003-2005 Park Aves going for $15K with over 100K miles. One knucklehead was asking $18K for a 2005 Park Ave with a really horrible repaint. Heck, I could see the overspray on the chrome bits and places where the car was masked! I would really, really love a 2005 Park Avenue Ultra with low miles in excellent condition - especially in that pearlescent white like my 2002 Cadillac Seville. I did find one once and it was snapped up quickly before I could get to the seller.

fezo · June 2009

I always thought "Century" referred to the average age of its drivers.

Correct. Olds did the same thing with the 88 and 98.

tomcatt630 · June 2009

Some old time GM fans are still upset about the name changes, but they simply like seeing all the old names on sales brochures for pride.

Regal sales were in the 'tur-let', and Centuries sold to the oldest drivers. Dealers were pushing them as 'Buicks at Chevy prices'. But that dilutes the image.

The 2010 LaX was needed 2 years ago, instead of the Aura. but at least it's weeks away.

tomcatt630 · June 2009

Many names were moldy and needed to go, such as Chevette, Citation, Corsica, Celebrity, Vega

But the Cobalt name has now been a waste of time, since it only will last one generation.

Also, Lutz's idea of 'G#' names for Pontiac belly-flopped, such that brand is dead. Good thing he didn't kill Malibu!!

colloquor · June 2009

That's funny... but, almost true!

In reality, as most of you already know, here's the info on Olds model designations, credit to Wikipedia:

In the 1930s through the 1990s, Oldsmobile used a two digit model designation. As originally implemented, the first digit signified the body size while the second represents the number of cylinders. Body sizes were 6, 7, 8, and 9, and 6- and 8-cylinder engines were offered. Thus, Oldsmobiles were named 66 through 98.

imidazol97 · June 2009

>Lacrosse replaced LeSabre while Lucerne replaced Park Aveneue

LaCrosse replaced Century/Regal W bodies. The Lucerne replaced the H-bodied leSabre and Park Avenue. But the Lucerne has a wide delta between the lower-priced end with lower content and suspension and the upper end with Cadillac content and suspension; the low end was to attract LeSabre owners and the high end, Park Avenue owners.

tomcatt630 · June 2009

Maybe should have called the top Lucerne trim the "PA" instead of CXL?

My aunt is a loyal Buick buyer for 25 years and loves her '08 Lucerne, and doesn't care about the name changes. Only time she didnt get a Buick was before the Lucerne she had an '04 Grand Prix, since 'it had more pizz-azz' than same year Buicks.

ingvar · June 2009

What really gets me about the 3-Series is why anybody would pay $30K+ for a teeny car that's smaller than a Corolla? For the same price or less, I can get a real car like a Buick Lucerne CXL or a Mercury Grand Marquis LS Ultimate
Why I drive 335i? Because I drive it, it is not an appliance like Corolla or Buick where I moves inside from point A to point B.

andre1969 · June 2009

Why I drive 335i? Because I drive it, it is not an appliance like Corolla or Buick where I moves inside from point A to point B.

I've never driven a 3-series BMW, but I have ridden in a few. For small cars, I actually find them to be pretty roomy up front, provided you put the seat all the way back. And IMO, they ride very well, considering they're tuned for handling and performance.

circlew · June 2009

I had 44k miles on my 330xi when I turned it in and it cost me $0 for maintenance. I spent the extra cash for the BMW over the C300 I also was considering in 2005.

Never got less than 22 MPG, braking, handling, steering feel, balance, emergency maneuverability, fit/finish, customer service are all top class.

It costs more than a Buick/GM for 1,000 real good reasons. The cars you mentioned are dinosaurs. The 3-series is pricey but there is not one car made by a U.S. manufacturer that comes close to the performance for the dollar in it's class. Period.

The 1-series amplifies that fact.

If you need the room, fine. Like I said, to each his own. You'd be surprised if you spend some time in a 3'er.

Besides, there are many reasons we have bankrupt auto companies and BMW and Mercedes are holding their own and Hyundai is gaining market share. Could be these are the cars of the future for a lot of folks.

Not including yourself, of course.

Regards,
OW

anythngbutgm · June 2009

Seriously dude, if you consider a car like the Grand Marquis you should really take a look at one of these.

390hp V8 RWD sleeper. This car is like classic American muscle and looks seriously badass IMO. I would drive one of these before any Buick, Lincoln, DTS, STS or large car in general. I like smaller, more nimble cars myself so don't curse me too much for my suggestion

Edit: sorry, only 340hp...

lemko · June 2009

I'd have to go all the way to a 7-Series to find a BMW with all the room and comfort to which I've become accustomed. Then we're talking serious money like $70K+.

Well, I could mention the car everybody else does - the Cadillac CTS. The CTS-V exceeds what the 3-Series can do. However, neither the CTS or 3-Series is really the kind of car I'm seeking . I prefer and own a Cadillac DTS.

plekto · June 2009

Why I drive 335i? Because I drive it, it is not an appliance like Corolla or Buick where I moves inside from point A to point B.

The smart money used to be on the IS300 - which was *this* close to a base 3 series, but with a much nicer interior. The RX-8, which technically is a 4 door 2+2 sedan despite the weird suicide rear doors, also is a good budget sports sedan.

I think BMW exists because all of the rich middle-aged people who fancied themselves to be pro drivers when they were young finally have a chance to get a decent car. It's sort-of-a-sports car. But that's fine, really. If you gave most 40-50 year old men a 911 Turbo or similar, they'd wrap it around a tree. For what it is, a BMW does a great job catering to this segment.

OTOH, if you want to just get from point A to B... yes, the 3 series is a small and rather poor choice for the money. For those people, a Buick or Camry is just fine.

dave8697 · June 2009

we have all heard 50 times how you rented a G6 once and an impala once and that makes you an expert on GM quality. That is regardless of the many who responded to JD Powers with results that put it out in front of a huge pack of contenders. in previous years some of those contenders were at the head of the pack. Maybe most G6 owners would be underwhelmed by those contenders models that were JD Powers winners in those years.

Overall, the D3 quality is increasing at a faster rate than it's competitors for the '08 to '09 model years. That is according to JD Powers. So they are growing the lead in some cases, and closing the gap in others.

bpizzuti · June 2009

Maybe most G6 owners would be underwhelmed by those contenders models that were JD Powers winners in those years.

I can absolutely confirm that. Enterprise, Avis, and Hertz said they were extremely underwhelmed by all other midsized models, particularly when they found out they could buy 2 G6s for the price of one.

That does cover most G6 owners, right? :shades:

circlew · June 2009

Yup, that about sums it up. Thing is, if you defend junk, then you are only kidding one person. You can never fool the market in the long run.

Pontiac, R.I.P. At one time, you were the best division of the middle class in the U.S. :sick:

Regards,
OW

lemko · June 2009

If you gave most 40-50 year old men a 911 Turbo or similar, they'd wrap it around a tree.

Some ex-cop just managed to kill himself, his passenger, and some poor slob in a minivan when he rented a Lamborghini and tried to open it up somewhere in southwest Philly.

plekto · June 2009

Yeah - sad to hear that.

That's why BMW's a-little-bit-of-sports-car approach works so well. Enough to get a feel for it but it still is sane enough to live through it with your less than racing driver reflexes.

circlew · June 2009

Agreed. Best balance of any car I've driven.

BTW, my Dad's cardiologist managed to wrap his Ferrari around a pole on the L.I.E. about a year ago....

Regards,
OW

andres3 · June 2009

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In order to regain lost customers, not only do they have to match or beat Hyundai's warranty (and I mean in every way, meaning 10 years), they have to insure that you won't have to use that warranty often by making quality products and reimbursing the customer if they do have to waste their time with warranty repairs:

1st visit: Pass, but provide free loaner rental vehicle
2nd visit: $50 Rebate, free vehicle
3rd visit: $100 Rebate, free vehicle
4th visit: $200 rebate, free luxury rental vehicle
5th visit: $400 rebate, free sports car rental
6th visit $800 rebate, Rolls Royce Phantom

and so on and so forth. If GM implements the plan above, I could see paying the CTS' overpriced pricing with a good bargain.

andre1969 · June 2009

we have all heard 50 times how you rented a G6 once and an impala once and that makes you an expert on GM quality.

Oh, Circlew rented a G6 once? Really? I didn't know that. I want to hear all about the experience! :P

As far as rentals go, I don't have much experience under my belt, but I've had three GM cars. A 1992 Grand Am, a 1999 Alero, and a 2001 Malibu. Grand Am sucked, Malibu was basically everything a rental car should be...nothing fantastic but nothing horrible. I liked the Alero. It just had the 4-cyl, but it seemed pretty peppy. And it seemed like Olds actually put some effort into the Alero's interior.

lemko · June 2009

My girlfriend once rented a red Pontiac G6 and she liked it. The last car I rented was a 2009 Cadillac CTS. Pretty awesome!!!

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