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Comments
These words are too much to write about a has been. :lemon:
Regards,
OW
In the past, Hertz and Avis @ LAX or SBA
Hertz gave me a DTS (that is a BIGGGGGG car) and I am pretty sure it was Avis that gave me a CTS. When you rent one-way to LAX, you get premium vehicles because they just want them to get returned in LA. I get Caddys and my folks keep getting Priuses :P
So back in like, I dunno, the 80s, before Dodge made Neons, Al Gore singly had this idea for a way to interconnect "personal computers" around the world via this tool called "the internet." As its come to pas, this idea caught on, and these enterprising young fellows created a tool that uses "the internet" and will actually look at all these different connected computers for a piece of information. They called this tool "Google." One need not make ridiculous claims about its durability or longevity, head gaskets, heater cores or even its warranty, as this tool is free.
Algore is a real stretch to reference on board for GM news.
Whatever you know you chuckled. :P
Maybe it doesn't matter. Now that GM "escaped" through ch-11 route means it'll never return the bailout money. So until I see some extreme improvements no more GM cars, period.
To respond on some comments about the rented cars:
I've tried the G6, once. Wasn't impressed, it felt heavy and slow for it's size. On a plus note the interior was one of the best I've seen in a Pontiac.
I rented the CTS for a weekend trip, and while I wasn't impressed by the build quality and so called handling, the car was a good long distance cruiser. Soft suspension and pretty comfy seats worked well. Fuel economy raised an eyebrow though, once it recorded roughly 22-23 mpg, another time it plunged to 17-18mpg (all highway driving).
A look at Buick's sales volume shows a division selling more than a half-million cars every year in the 1991-94 period, with a peak of 546,836 in 1994. After that, Buick not only never regained sight of those heights, but just four years later its volume slid to less than 400,000 units.
The totals bounced around for a few years, but then plunged steadily to a meager 185,791 in 2007, a low point if one charitably discounts the industry's dismal 2008, in which Buick sold just 137,197 vehicles -- barely a quarter of its volume in the mid-1990s.
Buick's market-share snapshot is the same: the division had endured a dropoff from its 4.4 percent share in 1991 to 2.8 percent by 1996, 1.8 percent by 2004 and 1 percent last year. Since 1991, Buick's market share fell in all but four years.
Now that it is one of the four surviving "new GM" divisions, what about Buick's portion of the corporate market share? As Led Zeppelin said, the song remains the same: in 1991, Buick accounted for 12.2 percent of GM's total sales. By 1995, the number was in single digits and has slid consistently to last year's 4.6 percent of GM share. :P
Regards,
OW
If new Buick Lacross gets rave reviews from Edmunds, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Consumer Reports, etc., then that should boost showroom traffic. If the car is really very good, word-of-mouth will get out and sales will rise. If we see dealer markups and stupid add-on dealer accessories on cars in lots, then we know that Buick will have a hit. 2010 styling is decent and not milquetoast as is present version.
Buick quality has been reported better than most other GM brands. If 2010 gets the rave reviews, then Buick might capture some formerly foreign car buyers along with the Buick and GM faithful.
Numbers don't tell the entire story of GM's evolution over the past 18 years, but they do provide a thought-provoking snapshot of how its surviving divisions have performed not only through the company's nearly two-decade transition -- one that hosted a steady erosion of market share -- but also through several significant market epochs as well.
Based on the performance timeframe of this Edmunds.com data analysis, is the new GM really poised for success?
Any absolute answer is speculation, particularly considering the likelihood of a sputtering and volatile U.S. market for the foreseeable future.
But the indicators point to a Buick that has to find a strategy to reverse a decades-long slide, a GMC that, if it is to remain true to its hefty-truck heritage, is in discord with the market direction and a Cadillac that has yet to develop a successful and mature model range.
Maybe a workable formula for a new GM. Or maybe another whistlestop on the express track to the eventual downsizing many analysts say is inevitable: a GM consisting of Chevrolet and Cadillac.
One way or another, this will happen AFAIC. Concentration across 4 brands makes no sense in the new marketplace.
Regards,
OW
IMHO the Buick name in the US is too tainted for this to occur. The image is old and dowdy, and even a great car is not enough to change that. It's different in China.
I know Caddy has the CTS as its entry level, but that's a sportier car, that tries to go after the BMW crowd moreso than the Lexus crowd.
The old/dowdy image wouldn't keep me from buying a Buick, if I still thought the car was good enough. But, I can understand the rationale that many people have for not buying them, and unfortunately the nameplate might have too much excess baggage associated with it at this point.
I hope they can turn it around though.
Old and dowdy? Feh! I've been buying Buicks since I was 16!
Cadillac is still trying to re-invent themselves as sport-Euro-lux. Give them an entry-level what-was-intended-to-be-a-Buick and you destroy that. Not only that, you put them up against Lincoln, which is a bad tactical move in itself (as opposed to going up against Lexus, which is suicidal right now).
Honestly, GM might be better off targeting some of the manufacturers perceived to be a bit weaker. Ford isn't: they have too much goodwill from not taking a bailout. Toyota is always the 800 lb gorilla. Acura is a bit weaker but their buyers are hugely loyal. Infiniti is a possibility, as is Mercedes. Maybe Audi too.
They do need to become world-class, but they need to shrink first, so they can give enough focus to each model to MAKE it world-class. Until then, given all their trouble, they ALSO need to make sure they don't bite off more than they can chew. And competing in too many product lines is much more than they can chew.
They'd be much better off just dropping Buick in the US, and concentrating on Chevy/Caddy. Provided they stick to trucks, GMC can probably take care of itself.
Agreed. Drop Buick in US, and make sure GMC is only commercial trucks. No more overlap with Chevy. Then you have GMC (commercial), Chevy (cars and trucks for everyman), Caddy (upscale vehicles). Viola! No more overlaps.
Just not at all sure that they won't continue overlapping GMC with Chevy. Buicks could go to Chevy and even be the same cars. Give Chevy the LaCrosse, the G8, etc.
I'm not one that's been calling on them to keep Buick around but I'd be very happy if it worked out. two of my favorite cars in the family were Buicks - a 49 that my grandfather drove for pretty much the whole time both he and i were around and a 56 that the folks picked up for $600 in the mid 60s. Of all the cheap cars my dad picked up this was easily the nicest.
I had a 56 Special for about a year as a hobby. It wasn't any better (or worse) when I sold it for the same amount I bought it for but it was a fun thing to tool around in.
Have you gone to the buick Web site to look at the '10? It's pretty nice though I wish they would've gotten a little more aggressive with the front end. I do like the sculptured sides and the rear.
I've been monitoring ebay, haven't seen any yet.
Agree. But, the so-called dowdy image started being shed by Lucerne styling, then Enclave and now the Lacrosse.
In my previous post, I included a lot of "IFs" on new Lacrosse. If those IFs were satisifed in my view, I would have open mind to go look at and test drive the Lacrosse in a year or two. This in spite of wife and I having 3 in a row flawless Acura TLs. She would probably be reluctant in trying a Buick being completely satisfied with all aspects of Acura quality/reliability, driving, handling, etc, plus outstanding dealer service. She will say, "Why switch"?
Re dowdy image. Don't care what other people think about what I am driving. Similarly, some happy Buick posters here are are probably decades away from being golden seniors, are "self-confident" and are obviously not concerned about the past images of old people driving Buicks.
On dowdy and soccer-mom image, our third vehicle is strictly utility and is a mini-van. I laugh internally when I see people struggling to get "stuff" into their "Fashionable" SUVs in big-box parking lots while my mini-van easily swallows most anything.
Had a Suburban for many years and when time to get a new replacement, could not justify the thousands more for it over the Honda Ody we bought. Being I don't tow trailers, but just haul big stuff periodically, Suburban's strength of truck frame and V8 did not matter to me. The Ody, as well as Mopar offerings, easily trump the Suburban in cargo size carrying capacity.
Not that I care either way, but that's not exactly a "past" image. I hardly ever see an Enclave on the road. I see way more LeSabres and Centurys on the road than I do Lucernes or LaCrosses...and I'm not totally convinced that the LaCrosse and Lucerne, in their current iteration at least, have shed that old/dowdy image for many buyers. A guy at work recently bought a Lucerne. I think he's close to 50 by now. One day he told me about how the car was a babe magnet because one of our co-workers complimented the car, and she's got to be well into her 60's. :P And the other night, Lemko almost got rear-ended by a senior citizen in a LaCrosse, who got the high-beam switch confused with the brake pedal! In general, if I see a Buick on the road, it's usually driven by a senior citizen. Today on the way in I saw a nice blue and silver LeSabre, that would just have matched the hair in Grandma's wig. :shades: (well, okay, it was actually a shiny red metallic, with whitewall tires, and it was driven by a white-haired old man)
Again, I don't care either way. If I like the way a car looks and like its comfort, I don't care if its typical buyer is a high school kid, or three days older than God. But that image is important for a lot of people.
I think Buick's biggest problem, though, is just what you stated in your Acura example. A lot of buyers have deserted Buick and GM over the years, and are perfectly happy with the brands they deserted to. They need a good reason to come back. There's a guy at work who used to buy Lincolns, until a 2000 LS let him down. Now he's Acura all the way. Although he trades them at around 50,000 miles, which he usually puts on in about two years, so I'm sure he pays through the nose come trade-in time!
Somebody drove by yesterday in one of those last Buick Roadmasters. Can't imagine needing more space than that.
Right. Had a Chevy Caprice station wagon for about 8 years and it was great for hauling stuff, people and was comfortable. It did have some quality issues, the worst being a bad camshaft that dealer replaced out of warranty and got Chevy/GM to pick up half expense.
Too bad we will probably never again see a full size rwd V8 station wagon from GM, or any other mfr. We are in the days of Enclave, Traverse, Acadia as station wagon substitutes. Have not checked, but would guess that these new GM crossovers will not carry a 4x8 inside.
Now, homeoweners prefer to paint walls, so the need for hauling these sheets is rare.
While I am all in favor of style we've gotten mighty silly with things. First the minivans show up and all of a sunned wagons aren't "cool." then they manage to make minivans "uncool' so they can sell SUVs at more profit. It seems every jump in profit is accompanied by a loss of utility.
Any of these vehicles have their niche but it looks like the model now is to produce cars in larger volumes than a niche.
Of course now you get a trend of CUVs. Don't tell anyone they are wagons.....
The more things change.............
That's because they aren't. They're hatchbacks. :shades:
We have nearly 100,000 miles on my Wife's CTS with Every available option (read this as being that many more things to break) and no major problems to date! I'm right now trying to think of any minor problems other than an onstar microphone issue 4 years ago... Nope can't think of any.
My Eldorado had been largely trouble free for 120,000 miles.
My Fleetwood went 195,000 miles with nothing worse than a burned out compressor, alternator and water pump over the years, none of which rendered it dead on the side of the road. It would still be running it it wasn't crashed in an accident.
No i think you are in error with that statement.
Actually I bought a new LeSabre in 1992. I wasn't even 32 yet and i think i'm the youngest Lesabre buyer on record.
But it had the Gran Touring suspension with 16 inch wheel and 60 series H rated tires. Very nice car, rant it to 175,000 miles, traded it in on a Fleetwood, 3 years later I saw it going down the road, I could tell it was my old car because of the front hood ornament that i installed and the trunk paint peeling (that was the one thing that ticked me off about the car). It's probably sill rinning now. Thoise 3800 V6s would last forever. In fact 1990s GM FWD 3800s are the new ghetto-mobile.
Sort of a moot point though, because every place I went to when I was dryer shopping didn't have any in stock. They only took orders, and then you had to have it delivered. :mad:
Also, unless you go FWD, I don't think most station wagons have a 3rd row seat, once you get to anything smaller than a downsized Caprice/Crown Vic. Now the old pre-downsized intermediates had third row seats, but most of them were actually BIGGER than the downsized Ford/GM cars! Cars like the 1976 Volare, 1978 Fairmont, 1978 Malibu, and even the 2005 Magnum, none of 'em have a 3rd row seat. Something like a Taurus or Celebirty wagon would, though. And I guess some RWD cars with an independent rear suspension might have a 3rd row seat, since they can get the gas tank under the back seat, rather than behind the axle.
As far as wagons go, I liked that 1984-ish Parisienne Safari we saw at Carlisle...but not at the $4995 price tag!
Of course for early SUV types there was this -
Jeep wagoneer
The other day I was towing our boat down to the lake where we keep it with the Expedition. It's about a 60 mile one way drive down lots of two lane country road. Not once, not twice, but three time I had to pass excessively slow drivers going between 40-50 on a rural, flat, and straight country road with a 55 mph speed limit. You'll never guess what the 3 cars where.... Well maybe, the first was a Park Ave, the second was a Lucerne, and the 3rd believe it or not was a Lacrosse. I was laughing to myself thinking about the debate on these forums regarding Buick's reputation, and also about what were the odds of my passing 3 Buick's in a row all within an hour.
You may have no problems with your CTS so far, but a lot of others somewhat disagree with you. No it's not that bad, and I agree that CTS is pretty reliable for a GM car, but Buick's LaCrosse has been far more reliable.
Plus, LaCrosse's fit-finish is better than that of the CTS' (or any Cadillac I've seen for that matter)
CTS is good, but an additional quality improvement can make it great. If you can add for one more step towards prefection, why not???? They should learn from the old management's mistakes.
Kind of interesting, isn't it, to imagine where GM could be today with Buick if they hadn't thrown away tons of resources rebuilding Saturn only to have no-one "rediscover" the brand?
Will the new GM continue these mistakes of the past? Some indications are that they will. Defend Buick fiercely if you will, but 4 brands is more than GM can properly handle, or sell given the market share it will ultimately have.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
This notion is a fallacy in my area (west coast). Nothing will boost Buick showroom traffic. They will continue to sell a dozen cars a year to folks over 65 who started driving 50 years ago when Buick was an aspirational brand, and that's it. The Buick name is dead and forgotten here.
And there are WAY too many nice midsize sedans from brands people remember and respect for Lacrosse to stand out in anyone's mind, even if it is all that and a bag of chips.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Nothing will boost Buick showroom traffic. They will continue to sell a dozen cars a year to folks over 65 who started driving 50 years ago when Buick was an aspirational brand, and that's it. The Buick name is dead and forgotten here.
Last year's NYIAS proved none was looking at Buick...tumbleweeds blew past the Enclave, Lacrosse and Lucerne.
Should have gotten it over with during the C11. At the end of the day, Buick and GMC will go away....but it will cost more now, that's all.
Regards,
OW
The last time I got some, I got the 4x12s. They fit in the back of my minivan, but the hatch wouldn't quite close. The trick is to put a 2x12 or two underneath to support any rock that's hanging over your tailgate - if the old Buick VistaCruisers were wide enough, they'd haul 4x8s or 4x12s just fine. Keeps most of the drywall out of the weather too.
GM just needs to make a compact minivan with disappearing seats that'll handle 4' wide sheet goods, and offer a manual 6 speed option. Me and six other guys would buy one. :shades:
That's fine. There are almost twice as many people living in the Northeast Corridor (from northern Va to Maine) as Cali. We'll take care of that.
Ummm, they were OLDSMOBILE Vista Cruisers. Buicks were Sportwagons and Estate Wagons. The '57 version was a Caballero