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Comments
Here are their comments about VCM -
"We'll see how effective it is as the miles pile on, but I observed the ECO light coming on quite a bit during routine driving. The switchover to and from ECO mode isn't quite imperceptible. It's certainly more noticeable than the last VCM-equipped Odyssey we tested. On balance, the Accord's transitions are about as seamless as those observed in our cylinder deactivation-havin' long-term Tahoe."
Their fuel economy with the VCM? At 7,074 miles -
"Best tank: 26.3 mpg
Worst tank: 16.1 mpg
Average mpg: 21.4 mpg
Our 2008 Accord’s EPA estimates are 19 mpg city, 29 mpg highway and 22 mpg combined."
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120111703171810629-search.html?KEYWORDS=2- 008+malibu&COLLECTION=wsjie/6month.html
Personally I own the 2008 with VCM and I am very happy and not experiencing any vibration at all.
For the finishing touch, he ends his article by criticizing the "hybrid Accord Coupe."
Unfortunately for him, Honda never sold a hybrid Accord Coupe.
On another note, I got a 2nd survey form about my case manager. Also got an 8 page survey about my car. First time I have received one of these. Any one else get one? I can't wait to fill this one out!!!
hope this help you & me...
http://www.ohio.honda.com/News/PR/viewRelease.cfm?articleid=33
MARYSVILLE, OHIO - Honda of America Mfg. appointed new plant managers for its two auto plants among other promotions and changes in responsibility.
Tom Shoupe is plant manager of the Marysville Auto Plant and has been named a vice president at Honda of America Mfg.
Dan Smith is the new plant manager of the East Liberty Auto Plant.
Tom Mitchell now heads the company's Auto Quality business team and was promoted to assistant vice president.
In addition, Gen Tsujii was promoted to vice president at the Marysville Auto Plant and Masanori Kitazawa was promoted to vice president at the East Liberty Auto Plant.
Prior to his new assignment, Shoupe had been plant manager of the East Liberty plant since 1998, during a period of major renovation to implement a new manufacturing system and prepare for the 2001 Civic major model change. He joined Honda in 1988, holding positions in corporate planning, government and community relations and production control. Shoupe was senior manager of the North American Task Group in 1993, when he and his family joined approximately 100 other HAM associates and their families for assignments in Japan primarily in new model development.
One of the most integrated automotive manufacturing plants in North America, the Marysville plant produces the Accord Sedan and is the exclusive production site for the Accord Coupe. The Acura TL Sedan and Acura CL Coupe models, including the 260 horsepower CL Type S, also are produced only at the plant from domestic and globally sourced parts. The plant and its 5,850 associates have the capacity to build more than 440,000 automobiles annually.
Previously the leader of Honda's Americas Quality Group and Honda of America Mfg.'s Chief Inspecting Engineer, Smith helped lead the quality aspect of eight new model launches, including models produced exclusively at Honda of America Mfg., such as the Accord Coupe and Station Wagon, and Civic Coupe. Smith joined the company in 1985.The East Liberty Auto Plant launched the all-new 7th generation Civic in September as part of a simultaneous launch at Civic plants around the world. In addition to the Civic Sedan, the East Liberty plant is the exclusive manufacturing site for the Civic Coupe, including the Civic GX natural gas vehicle. Using domestic and globally sourced parts, the East Liberty plant has 2,700 associates and the capacity to manufacture more than 230,000 automobiles per year.
As leader for the Auto Quality business team, Mitchell has assumed Smith's responsibilities to oversee product quality for Honda of America Mfg. The team supports similar activities at the new Honda Manufacturing of Alabama plant that begins production late next year, and Honda's auto plants in Canada, Mexico and the United Kingdom. Mitchell joined the company in 1982.
Headquartered in Marysville, Ohio, Honda of America Mfg. operates four plants in Ohio employing 13,000 associates. In addition to the two auto plants, its Anna Engine Plant produces more than 1 million auto engines per year. The Marysville Motorcycle Plant produces the Gold Wing among other motorcycles, and all-terrain vehicles.
I did get a short survey about my case manager, and enjoyed filling it out -- what goes around comes around. I did get a longer survey about satisfaction with the car shortly after I bought it (initial quality survey, I guess), but none since contacting Honda about this matter.
http://www.world.honda.com/profile/directors/
The 4-cylinder has never had transmission issues that I know of, unlike the V6. They DID fix them, by adding a transmission cooling line, I believe.
Seems like whoever gave you information was misinformed.
If the six worries you, and the four is sufficient, go for the four.
New to this site and will probably be a one time visit for me. We owned a 2000 accord 4 cylinder LX - had transmission troubles (replaced by honda without charge) and ran into more transmission problems. We agreed no more hondas. We saw the new hondas and thought they looked sharp. I had not visited this site before and dont even know what VCM is or that there was a problem. We drove a 6 cylinder and it was very clear to me that there was a problem. I understand the comments that say it felt like a pump going on and off or the a/c kicking in and out - constantly. I am disappointed to say the least, but I am not interested in paying close to $30k for a car that constantly surges on and off. And I know that in the past honda has extended warranties on their transmissions to 100k miles. We don't want an extended warranty on a new car. We would prefer buying something that ran right from the start. It seems this issue should have been resolved prior to going to market. It is a sad commentary on honda and my heart goes out to those with the problems and not getting it resolved.
BBB is a good idea as is a Lemon Law attny based on the rising number of complaints here I dont want to be last in line i dont think... alot to consider but scary none the less. Has onyone considered contacting the writers from the 3 articles that talk to the issues with the VCM to dig deeper? Would be interested to see if they would have the courage to do that.
Here is a link to 14 different "expert" reviews for the Accord from various newspapers. These would be in addition to the 3 already cited from Autoweek, USA Today, and Wall Street Journal.
All of the reviews are mostly positive about VCM. A couple of lukewarm comments. Interesting that one writer complained about the shift linkage in the 6spd manual coupe.
One article (LA Times) references a possible isolated programming glitch with the Accord's drive-by-wire throttle system. Perhaps that could be causing some of the unexplained surging or sensations? Maybe something to check out.
1. Many multiple reviews by the same person, and seemingly incompetent. Some never evne drive the car, just review its equipment, specs, etc. Do these people ride horses instead of drive cars? Newspaper reporters and not car enthusiasts. The 6 speed coupe with VCM? Uh, no.
2. Most commented about the V-6 AT being technologically advanced and "able to obtain 29 MPG" but then never drove one!! One accelerated to 45 and saw the ECO light come on - well, the ECO light does NOT come on during acceleration. Most test cars? 190HP I4s, or the 6 speed V6 coupe.
Like I have posted - I have seen the VCM operate from both sides. Mine was horrible for the first 2000 miles - all the problems everyone here has complained of and absolutely spot on with the reviewers from Autoweek and the Wall Street Journal - surging, the "hydridlike torque on/torque off feel", the "maddening" frequency of the VCM going in and out of 3,4 and 6 cylinder operation and being very noticeable. I was absolutely ready to sell- or push it off a cliff! :P
All of a sudden, on a recent 250 mile trip, with about 2000 miles on the car, the sensations disappeared!!! :confuse: Now I drive a VCM equipped car that is like those spoken of here by parviz, hank119, cstiles, viet and others. What happened?
I wish I could tell all of you, especially those still experiencing problems - and believe me I DO feel your pain. I can only speculate that the active engine mounts were not functioning as intended and now are. Why? Maybe they had to be broken in? Maybe they were 'stiff" and immobile and have loosened up? I suspect they are the true culprits behind the negative sensations so many here have compained of. To those of you who have never experienced them - be thankful - because I can attest that they are very real and driving a new $30,000 car operating that way is annoyingly, "maddeningly" frustrating, made even more so when others are telling you that they don't understand because their cars are perfect and the VCM imperceptible. My advice to those still experiencing problems? If less than 2000 miles, give it a bit - you may have happen what I did. Prefer not to wait? I would think the dealer could put the car on a dynamometer and load up the engine just as if being driven and examine the operation of the engine mounts and VCM operation with the hood up, and actually observe the vibration of the engine in different modes of operation. Perhaps the engine mounts are defective altogether. I wish you the best in getting satisfactory resolution of your problems.
Now MPG is another story. Regardless of VCM, this 8th generation seems to be very thirsty - be it the 190HP I4 or the V6 - in either VCM or non-VCM configuration.
Our 2005 V6 coupe with AT - 29-30 MPG on the highway - consistently. This VCM V6 sedan? 24.5 on the 250 mile trip over a rolling interstate in Upstate NY, at 75 MPH on cruise. This seems consistent with Edmunds' long term test car results.
Instant MPG from a trip computer? Worthless information - I got another car I owned to show 101 MPG when coasting - pure fantasyland. Reality is when you refill the tank. Then calculate your mileage the old fashioned way - miles traveled/gallons used.. Happy motoring guys - and good luck to those of you whose VCM equipped engines continue to annoy. I have been there too, and I understand your frustration.
Newspaper auto jounalists review a different car almost every week to make deadlines, so I agree that many of their articles are isolated to first impressions or how a car compares against their checklists of virtues and vices.
I happen to own a 6spd coupe, so I zeroed in on the comment about the shift linkage on the manual.
If you speculate that your engine mounts are primarily responsible for the quality of your VCM operation (versus throttle/driveline/transmission behavior, for example), then is it accurate to conclude that your issue was mostly about vibration and resonance? When I see "surging," I visualize a car changing speeds and throttling inconsistently. It doesn't sound like rodiron's, sunnfun's, etc. issues are due to just engine mounts based on their descriptions.
Nonetheless, glad to hear you are in a better place and that your Accord has transformed into the nicer ride you were originally expecting.
My car had a slight "shudder" when going into and out of VCM - slight, though noticeable. And did it often, even when on cruise control. Hard to say what exactly the issue was but because the Active Engine Mounts are the only external mechanical feature involved (drive by wire throttle, and cylinder deactivation being internal and computer controlled) I have to suspect they were the culprit - designed to insulate the passengers from the sensation of anything going on in the engine compartment. Everything else was electronic. Who knows - just very happy it is history! Now I can join those "on the other side" and enjoy the power and efficience(relative) of the car.
"A switching valve controls the pulse of the engine vacuum applied to the active mount's diaphragm. The diaphragm creates a vibration that counters that of the engine and the two vibrations are cancelled out."
Generally? Explained here - several systems, including hydraulic.
http://www.i-car.com/pdf/advantage/online/2007/031907.pdf
Lexus Explanation? http://www.lexus-indonesia.com/technology_explorer/active_control_engine_mount.a- - - sp?model=All
Another lexus explanation http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience/en/home/vehicles/BJ46GT2008/veh_dt_body.jsp- - ?model=BJ46GT&year=2008
But these reports really do seem to indicate that some cars display the issues to varying degrees and perhaps some do not display them at all. So it's certainly plausible that the cars you test drove do not behave in the same way that some of the cars driven by the owners here do.
Thanks for your report - if you have more experiences to contribute, please do so.
It is impossible to tell from this forum and its unrandom sampling of owners and thier experiences how "widespread" or "isolated" the problems they have experienced with VCM are. As I have said - I experienced them all too :sick: - up to about 2000 miles and then - POOF! Gone! Why they went away I do not know, but have previously speculated about. Now I have a wonderful car that with which I could not be happier - except maybe a bit better MPG.
You say "None of the reviews I've read, including Consumer Reports, evens mentions this as an issue."
Allow me to enlighten you with numerous reviews wherein comments are made, the VCM operation at the very least noticed, if not criticized:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/category/cat.2008HondaAccordEX-LV6
We'll see how effective it is as the miles pile on, but I observed the ECO light coming on quite a bit during routine driving. The switchover to and from ECO mode isn't quite imperceptible. It's certainly more noticeable than the last VCM-equipped Odyssey we tested.
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HondaAccord/Index2008.htm
Cruising on the highway, I felt a minor shudder as the engine switched cylinders on and off. More time in a production model will give me a better sample of how smooth the cylinder shut-down works.
Wall Street Journal 1/25/08 "... the Accord was fitted with a 268-horsepower, 3.5-liter V6 with what Honda calls Variable Cylinder Management. This technology is designed to boost fuel economy by allowing the six-cylinder engine to run on just three or four cylinders when full power isn't needed. It works almost seamlessly, but in this case, "almost" isn't good enough. During highway driving with the cruise control on I could feel a slight vibration when the engine switched from three- to four- to six-cylinder mode, which it does often, a downright maddening behavior. That the Accord managed only 22 miles per gallon during my testing ... only made this all the more annoying
AutoWeek 8/21/07“When driving the multi-cylinder deactivation V6, we did detect a hybrid-like torque on/torque off feel when cruising at 60 or 70 mph when under slight throttle(at about 2000 to 2500 RPM). Because the green “ECO” indicator was illuminated, showing that the engine was running in fuel saving economy mode, we were no doubt picking up the engine cycling between four and three cylinder modes.”
USA Today 8/24/07“If you step up too the V6 model, you’ll get blazing engine performance but rougher down shifting than in the 4 cylinder cars. Also a sensitive driver can feel the V6 go through its multi cylinder transitions.”
http://www.epinions.com/content_403535007364
Noise cancellation technology eliminates the odd noises produced by a V6 running on three or four cylinders. The transitions cannot be heard or felt--to know which mode the engine is in, it's generally necessary to rely on the "ECO" light.
That said, early in my test drive of the V6 I did notice a low frequency thrumming when cruising around 60 miles per hour. And the sunroof was closed. At first I wondered if this might be a by-product of the noise cancellation. But the noise eventually faded away, so I now suspect the tires. If the noise was endemic to the design, many people would find it too irritating to live with.
http://www.web2carz.com/6596/2008/Honda/Accord/reviews/driving-performance
Like GM and Chrysler systems designed to save gas on big V8s, VCM changes the number of engine cylinders working at any given time and load to save fuel. The previous example switched off three cylinders (half the V6) when they weren't needed, but this new one changes between six, four, and three cylinders for more fuel-stretching choices. The system is completely automatic and unknown to the driver except for two things: The Eco light illuminates on the dash when the system is on, and there's a slight hunting sensation as it switches back-and-forth between four and three cylinders at certain speeds, but you'll need to be paying attention to notice that.
Unless these testers all drove the same car (entirely possible), then it would seem that the experiences of those who have had (me - HAD being the operative word here ) or are continung to have these issues with VCM are not all that isolated, and some people notice its operation and some don't.
I was ready to dump my car. The activity of the VCM was more than just annoying - it was physically nauseating and something neither my wife nor I could live with. I just wish Honda would own up to there being a problem with VCM and release some sort of statement - that it sometimes needs to be broken in more than just 500 miles, or that the Active Engine Mounts might need to be looked at if it persists in being noticeable or there are vibrations, etc. rather than sayting mum on it. I personally think that is a big marketing and customer loyalty mistake, but I don't run Honda.
But, rest assured with these links and reviews - there are issues lurking out there with some cars. Guess the best advice for somone who has not bought one yet? Drive the one you want to buy - not a preselected demo - and assure yourself that the VCM in THAT car is operating according to Honda's claims - "seamlessly and unnoticeably" - and the don't let it out of your sight!
Good luck - I hope you find a good one, and can join parviz, viet, hank119, and others, now inculding myself[ ] in enjoying a very nice ride.
Because of the serious issues experienced with the VCM by some posters here, I would make sure the dealer allowed me to drive the EX L V6 sedan intended for me to purchase, EXTENSIVELY before buying it.
Click here: http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/honda.com.au/home/showroom/acco- - rd/features/engineering/accord+-+features+-+engineering
Lucky Australians, their Accords are equipped with paddle shifters!
What website IS this yrmac? Australia?
I don't think anyone has ever suggested that! Now the grade logic transmission when you are on cruise WILL downshift if necessary to maintain a steady speed.
As for the paddle shifters - those among us with spouses who do not drive manual would love to have that option of a manual override of the auto tranny like BMW, Subaru or many others offer.
I dont need the paddles but they're there and I might use them sometime as a novelty..
As for VCM, i dont even notice it except fot the eco light which I sometimes try to keep on by careful driving.
"The Accord automatic transmission features Honda's Grade Logic Control system. This system differs from other computer-controlled shift programming because it can detect vehicle driving situations and then set appropriate shift points for the car. This feature avoids gear hunting on climbs and descents, and downshifts when appropriate for added engine braking." The surprise comes when you are cruising on cruise control and begin to descend a hill - the car will downshift all by itself into a lower gear, perhaps even two lower gears depending on the steepness of the grade, to maintain the speed set on cruise - the severity of it can be startling the first time, and it will also do it when decelerating for a traffic light - again with much more pronouncement than I have expierenced with other ATs.