Saturn VUE

zapcat · April 2003

I would love to know the estimated MPG the honda motor will get. I am very pleased with the 3.0 and I assume the 3.5 will come at additional expense. Maybe in a few years I will trade up.

Seems to work great, thanks for asking.

joey2brix · April 2003

GM could make a ton of money and market share if they'd make more cars like this. That sweet Honda V6 could make the VUE the hottest SUV on the road. I was gonna hold out for the Equinox, but now I think I'll be at a Saturn dealer for a test ride when a 250Hp VUE shows up.

duke36 · April 2003

Does any know, if it is the V6- 240hp the Honda engine?

I noticed that the rear drum brake remains- interesting for a performance vehicle not to have 4 disc-brakes. Towing 3500lbs, even with trailer brakes, I would like 4 discs.

I wonder if they are improving the interior design and adding a lift-glass hatch.

joey2brix · April 2003

GM couldn't design a V6 with those specs. Plus it's a limited edition, which makes sense since the deal with Honda was for 50K engines or less.
Less then 2 weeks to the NY auto show, pictures should be posted soon after that.

dindak · April 2003

"GM couldn't design a V6 with those specs"

GMs new 3.6L DOHC V6 starts production in a few months producing 255-260hp. GM can and will produce just such an engine. The Honda engines are part of a trade for GM transmissions going to Honda.

Red Line VUE looks way cool though, good news!

dindak · April 2003

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=03794634

vuefor2 · April 2003

The pictures look great. I like the rear view especially.

I doubt we would have gone for that Vue if it were available anyway. We really didn't want to spend much more than we did on our almost base V6 AWD.

joey2brix · April 2003

The engine better be the Honda. I wouldn't buy a Red Line with a new GM designed engine the first year. Probably want at least 30K for it, and the dealers will ask full list plus! Sorry, there's a lot of bigger SUV's with more HP in that price range.

dindak · April 2003

I can't recall a bad first year GM engine in a long time. GM builds good engines.

The 3.5L is the Honda though. I will still get the 3.0L if I buy in the next year or two as I don't need the extra power and gas consumption.

zapcat · April 2003

What did you think of my deal?

joey2brix · April 2003

Other then the in line six for the Envoy, there has been no new fully designed GM engines in over 10 or 15 years, so I wouldn't expect problems from old iron push rod blocks. Saturn's were written up for their noisy engines for the first 7 or 8 years of the car line. Are you too young to remember the Diesel engines in the 70's. The Cadillac V8-6-4 was another disaster. NorthStar and the 3800 V6 are great engines, but they are over 20 years old. Read the Jimmy/Blazer thread on the 4.3L major engine problems. It will be a few years before you can compare a new GM 3.6 to the Honda 3.5 Well, at least I can go see the Equinox and the Red Line Vue at the NY Auto show in a week.

zapcat · April 2003

Let us know if they change the power window switch locations and add assist handles to the 2004 VUE.

peccles · April 2003

I don't understand why GM wanted this Honda engine
for the '04 VUE. In '04, they will have
the new 255HP/252 ft-lbs 3.6L for the Caddy CTS
and Buick Rendevous Ultra, a 3.5L 200HP for the
Chevy Malibu, and the new Series III of the 3800
with 260HP in supercharged form. Plus they will
still have the 3.0L (L81), 3.2L (CTS), 3.1L,
and 3400 around in some vehicles for '04. It
must cost GM quite a bit of $$ to have 8
different V-6s around than just the 2 or 3
they really need.

If it would fit they should have put the Series
III 3800 in the VUE (200HP/225 ft-lbs) and
have the optional supercharged version (260HP
w/280 ft-lbs) for the AWD VUE. Or they should
have went for the new 3500 (200HP/210 ft-lbs)
and an optional 3.6L from the CTS and
Rendevous. The 3500 is part of their new
High-Value series of V-6s and the 3.6L
is part of the new High-Feature series of
V-6s.

joey2brix · April 2003

the 3800's a big motor. I doubt it would fit. Again a dinasour of an engine that probably weights as much as the VUE's whole body. GM's always late with comming out with the right engine for a car. They talked about other versions of the inline 6 (5 and 4 cyl) of the envoy for 3 years now. The new 3.6 and 3.9/4.0 all aluminum OHC 24-valve engines should have been out years ago. At least Honda has always made a light high reving (motorcycle) engine that never needed over complicated junk like turbos and supercharging to get decent HP's out of a motor and kill the gas milage at the same time.

dindak · April 2003

3.6L and 4-5 variants are all coming on stream.

Recent motors..
3.5L Twin Cam in the Intrigue/Aurora was awesome
2.2L Ecotec has been very reliable
Saturn 3.0L V6 which comes from GM Europe has been fine
Current Northstars are all good
3.8, 3.4, 3.1 pushrods are all fine.

Some of the older mid 90's and before motors do have issues I'll grant you that.

Ah well, maybe some Honda fans will buy Saturn and that can't be a bad thing. The Honda 3.5L is a nice motor, the R/L VUE will be the only small SUV rocket around.

3.8L is pretty big, I doubt it would fit.

mcclearyfl · April 2003

My wife and I are not in a rush to purchase a new vehicle, and the upcoming Redline Vue makes us happy to wait until early 2004.

We hesitated about buying the otherwise attractive current version because of consumer feedback about a rough and noisy V-6 engine, insufficient sound insulation, and a manually adjusted seat that didn't quite fit correctly. The Redline supposedly addresses all of these concerns.

It is unclear from GM announcements whether the Redline will be the only Vue equipped with a Honda V-6. I agree that we will probably pay a premium price, and the three external colors may possibly only come with a grey or black interior, whereas we prefer the parchment. Time will tell.

Chris

julians · April 2003

I think the Redline VUE looks great (the ion looked good too) but at what cost? I love my VUE because it was not very expensive (I got the base model) and it is great in every way. I will admit that If I was going to spend the cash to get the Redline with the Honda motor, why not just get a Honda Pilot? I will love to see the Redline, but it will make me appreciate my base VUE that much more when the reality hits that mine was like $10,000. cheaper. With the Redline being a limited run, maybe that is the point?

simonov · April 2003

I just noticed a good size crack in the middle of my sunroof air deflector, starts near roof of Vue and comes almost half way up. I also have small cracks on both sides near the roof where the brackets are. I have an appt. for Monday for an oil change, any chance that Saturn would replace this? I had it installed before I took possession of the car last July. Seems like it should last longer, I don't think anything hit it. It's odd to have the two small cracks at the sides. What do you think?

dindak · April 2003

The 3.5L will be the only Red Line motor on the VUE. The 3.0L returns as the standard V6 for the masses. They are only planning on selling something like 8000 of the Red Lines.

joey2brix · April 2003

Honda's not setting up a whole new engine plant, so they could probably only provide GM with several thousand 3.5's a year. Perfect for a single model special series for a few years. The new GM engines probably won't come on-line until next year and a few other models (Malibu, Rondevous) are waiting for those motors.

mmspeal · April 2003

If you had the deflector installed prior to taking delivery, it takes on the warranty of the entire vehicle so you should have the full 3 years on it. I've had problems with my hood deflector and they've replaced it under warranty 3 times now. I think they've finally placed it properly so the wind won't get under it and peel it off anymore. I'm keeping my fingers crossed anyway as this one has now been on for four months - 2 months longer than any of the others lasted. I am in Canada, but I can't see any reason why the same warranty rules wouldn't apply.

Good Luck

vuefor2 · April 2003

I read somewhere the 3.5L deal for the Vue's is for a total of 50,000 motors. I guess there can only be a limited number if that's the case.

I'm really happy with the 3.0L though, I don't find it noisy at all. Some people expect too much from a small SUV. It's not a Lexus or a Mercedes after all.

bigdaddycoats · April 2003

dindak -
I think you are wrong. I believe that the 3.0 is being dropped and the 3.5 will be the only V6 offered for 2004. GM can purchase up to 50k of them from Honda, which I believe will more than satisfy the demand for the 6 cylinder VUE. The following was from the GM press release:

In the standard VUE, the new powertrain also increases towing ability to 3,500 pounds and permits the vehicle to be flat-towed, compared to the 2,500-pound capacity of the 3.0L V-6 engine it replaces. VUEs equipped with the new V-6 will meet the California ULEV-II emissions standard (ultra-low emissions vehicle).

The new V-6, which is mated to a five-speed automatic transmission, is just one of the enhancements Saturn is making to its VUE lineup for 2004. VUE customers can also continue to choose an Ecotec inline four-cylinder engine, available with either a five-speed manual or the advanced VTi variable transmission

So if this is the case the Red Line VUE is basically an appearance and suspension upgrade over the regular model. Still looks pretty sweet though. And as far as I know it will be the first and only compact SUV to be performance tuned, putting it in a class by itself.

bigdaddycoats · April 2003

http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_saturn_darts_red/index.htm

dindak · April 2003

Interesting. I thought it was 50,000 over a few years not 50,000 per year. Sounds like you may be right. I'm kind of bummed though as I would prefer to have the 3.0L with better fuel economy. Oh well, I guess the extra HP will make me smile.

You are right though, no one can complain the VUE has no power now. It will eat any small SUV for lunch at the drag strip. Of course none of this was originally suppose to be as the 3.5s were suppose to go into a new vehicle that never made it off the drawing board due to cutbacks and the economy.

joey2brix · April 2003

I doubt Honda can produce that many engines for GM in one year. Maybe GM will bring their new 3.5L online for use by 2004. Honda might built 100K units for their Pilot's, Odessey and some Accords. You think they will be able to ramp up production for 50% more? This engine is expensive and will add a large amount to the base cost of a V6 Vue, which is pricey already. The 3.0 might get dropped for anouther GM V6 to consolidate costs.

dindak · April 2003

I agree, I think the 3.5L is not a cheap motor to make. I can see it going into a premium Red Line VUE, but not into a lower end base V6. That's why I thought the 3.0L would carry over. Hopefully this will be clarified soon. Sales will drop big time if they have to add $1000-1500 to the V6 base price for this new motor no matter how good it is.

mcclearyfl · April 2003

Paul A. Eisenstein, publisher of "The Car Connection" states in yesterday's article that the Honda V6 will replace the current GM V6 engines in all VUE models, not just in the Redline versions.
For me this is good news since I will now be able to get the color combinations I want, which was unlikely with the Redline choices.

dindak · April 2003

Well, I hope GM is getting a good deal on these engines as Honda puts them into vehicles costing many thousands of dollars more.

mcclearyfl · April 2003

Don't forget the manufacturing principle of incremental costing. If Honda's fixed costs are already absorbed by their current production volume, they can produce extra engines at a lower unit cost. Both Honda and GM should benefit from the sale of these motors, GM getting them for the reduced unit cost (plus Honda's profit) only. And doesn't the deal also involve selling Honda some GM automatic transmissions? Same principle.

dindak · April 2003

I dunno.. The 3.5L has got to still cost more than the 3.0L no matter how you slice it. You are taking a larger sophisticated motor and putting it into a econo small SUV. I can see the 3.5 in the Red Line products but as the standard V6 it seems a bit much to me as the primary reason people buy small SUVs is price and to get better fuel economy.

duke36 · April 2003

Dindak, if you look at the fuel consumption numbers for the vehicles that already have that V6 (MDX, Pilot etc), you will find very comparable to the present Vue numbers - even if these must almost be 1 000lbs heavier.
It is a very efficient engine- the number are very impressive. Now it they could put a tectronic (sp?) transmission like in the MDX, that would be a winner, for sure.

I wonder about the braking now - it looks like the back brakes will still be drum. Unusual for a 3500lbs-towing capable vehicle. For what I read, towing is not only power, it needs suspension (which it has) and extra braking, even if the trailer must have some. Your view?

dindak · April 2003

AWD 3.0L VUE : 19/25
AWD Pilot 3.5L : 17/22

You loose on average 2 1/2 MPG which isn't a lot but still adds up over time. While I'm all for lots of power, I'd prefer to give up a little to get better mileage. The 3.0L I tested was more then peppy enough. Oh well, at least gas prices are coming back down to earth.

zapcat · April 2003

I have had the VUE for 650 miles and I love it. I average 19 mpg in 50/50 mixed driving. 45 miles a day round trip half at 65-70, half with a lot of traffic lights. It is less than I would like but it may improve over time. I tried to keep my rpm's well below 3500 for 4 days in a row but it did not seem to help. Dindak, if they stop offering the 3.0 I will sell you mine and trade up to the 3.5!

vuefor2 · April 2003

I tend to agree that the point of small SUVs is to save gas and money in terms of a purchase price. I see this new big engine lowering the economy and raising the price of the V6 Vue and that is definitely not a good thing. The 3L we have has plenty of power and we average about 22 mpg mixed driving and we get about 26 on the highway which is really good. Saturn should have performance models for those who want that but for most everyone else, I think Saturn is going to turn some people off with all this power and extra fuel consumption. May as well get a big full size SUV.

dindak · April 2003

The VUE is less of an economical SUV now and really that's my point. I wish they would boost the power in the 4 cyl motor a little as I would shift down to that otherwise. The VUE twin, the Equinox will be out before we buy so we may end up with that instead.

mmspeal · April 2003

I am sure my teenage son would love for me to buy one with a lot more power but I have the 4 cyl. standard and I can't complain about the power. It is actually quite peppy. It doesn't have the kick or guts that my V6 standard sunbird had but I'm getting a little older and tired of paying speeding tickets anyway!!! Besides, I am getting the same mileage as I did in the Sunbird and have the convenience of alot more vehicle. 25 000 clicks now and no complaints.

dindak · April 2003

Ya, the 5 speed is good, but I'm not sure I want to get a CVT as I have heard there are some cold weather issues with it. I guess we will see how Saturn does with the glitches over the next year.

vuefor2 · April 2003

We looked at the 4 cyl but my wife hates 5 speeds and the CVT was not readily available at the time. I think if it was, we may have gone the 4 cyl route. That all said, we love our V6 and the economy is still very good in this class.

sat04 · April 2003

I have been waiting for the 3.5L in the new Vue. Seems to me the economy issue between the 2003 3.0L and 2004 3.5L narrows when one considers that the 3.5L will be operating in a vehicle that is close to 1000 pounds lighter then the Pilot. Hmmm...isn't a 1000 pound reduction in weight going to give you a boost in economy? yes it is! :-) Maybe enough to come close to equaling the economy of the 3.0L ;-)

dindak · April 2003

http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_newyork/

joey2brix · April 2003

I don't think the guy buying a Red Line has fuel economy at the top of his wish list! I still think this will be a very limited run at top $$$$. Probably each dealer will only get a few to maximize profit. The 3.5L has VTEC valving doesn't it? I bet the engine option alone will add over $1,500 to the sticker alone.

oarlox · April 2003

Over the past winter we had noticed that our AWD VUE was making a growling noise. We attributed the growling noise to the Studded Winter heavly sieped(SP?) Tires that were on all four corners. Studs tend to be a little loud so it was easy to except. I know that lots of folks think that studs are not necessary, but you probably don't live in Alaska and drive on ice and snow for 6 straight months. Well Guess what? When I took the studed tires off the growling noise continued. The VUE is in the shop as we speak with both front sets of wheel bearings be replaced. I will fill you in on the details as they become available.

oarlox · April 2003

All that I can say is that we simply had a failure. There doesn't seem to be any real cause. Like over sized tires or non stock wheels. Keep your ears open and be sure to let others know if this is going to be an on going problem.

vuefor2 · April 2003

I still don't see the point of the 3.5L. It's too much power for a small SUV and the lost gas mileage (though small) will still add up over the years. I hope Saturn isn't boosting prices to pay for this engine as it will put the Vue out of reach for some.

sat04 · April 2003

Hmmm...I hope saturn does not boost prices excessively for this 3.5L too. That will really discourage me from buying a V6 Vue. Seems like the main pluses of the 3.5L are power, refinement and reliability. Lets hope Saturn recognizes that most of us want an affordable alternative with the Vue.

jmatero · April 2003

I had a wheel bearing go too... they replaced it quickly and the car is fine! Went at 3000 miles. As for the Honda Motor........

It's not so much a HP improvement as it is an issue of refinement.

Drive a Cadillac Catera..... then drive the Acura 3.5RL. These are the engines we're talking about here. As for 'too much' HP.... the VUE actually has LESS HP than the major competition with V6 motors. The SantaFe will soon have 200+, the Sorrento is already there... as are the Tribute/Escape. The Saturn was at the bottom of the pack.

dindak · April 2003

Actually Sorento has only 192 hp and it's heavy and big compared to the VUE (which is about the lightest SUV in this class), In spite of having one of the lower HP ratings among the V6s, the VUE is right up there in 0-60 because it's light. HP isn't everything and the 3.0L is perfectly reliable.

Like was said, I hope the VUE prices don't go up too much for 04 with this new engine.

entendrex2 · April 2003

I've been reading this thread with some interest for some time. I recently purchased a 2003 4 cyl 5 spd VUE. My other car is a 2002 Honda Odyssey with the 3.5 V6. I love both cars! I have no experience with the current 3.0 GM V6, but I can tell you the Honda engine is sweet. It is very efficient for a big V6. If you check out the mileage specs on the Odyssey you'll see it is near the top, yet the Odyssey is one of the heavier mini vans. I would not be surprised if the mileage is the same, or even improved with the 3.5. My 3.5 is 240 hp and moves the heavy Odyssey like a rocket. I can't imagine it in the VUE. I'm shocked they could even shoe horn it in!

Now the whole issue of a Honda engine in a GM car is another matter, but it is with out a doubt a world class motor.

vuefor2 · April 2003

Oh no doubt the 3.5L is a nice motor. My concerns are

1. Price of the vehicle
2. mileage

Mileage won't be much different I hope given how light the Vue is but the price hike scares me as Honda puts the 3.5L in $30K + vehicles.

I too also wonder how Saturn will get that thing under the Vue hood. It's going to be a tight squeeze!

Saturn VUE

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