Saturn VUE

sda · October 2003

Too bad you can't get a V-6 with manual transmission. Can you imagine what a fun and quick ride that would be?

dindak · October 2003

I've heard you can also get stuff thrown in like radio upgrades, floor mats and accessories.

pster · October 2003

Thanks for your comments. We'll go test drive it.

vuefor2 · October 2003

We got floor mats and a few oil changes thrown in with our Vue. We didn't trade in so we had no other negotiating room.

zapcat · October 2003

Any reason why there is not 2004 VUE info available on the new car section of Edmunds?

And I do not mean 'future models'

Hello.....

tidester · October 2003

I think you clicked the wrong link. Go here and try again. Don't click on the links that say "Future Vehicles."

tidester, host

zapcat · October 2003

Would I make that kind of post if I was wrong?

When I go to new cars-saturn 2003 VUE is there.
When I go to new cars-chevy 2004 stuff is there.

The 2004 VUE's are in the showrooms yet edmunds shows pricing for 2003?

stever · October 2003

That just means we haven't updated the Saturn pages yet. The data people have to verify and roll out pricing and spec info for hundreds of models/trims. The New Vehicle Pages are updated weekly and not every model gets updated at the same time.

No ETA, but stay tuned.

Steve, Host

afk_x · October 2003

The editors most wanted list failed to list the V6 Saturn VUE as the winner.

They also didn't give it honorable mention.

Simply amazing...

Obviously they have not driven the 04 VUE yet.

Lets see - just off the top of my head...

Best MPG in class for a V6

Most horsepower in class

Quickest in class

Safest in class (According to Consumer reports)

More reliable than average (According to Consumer Reports)

Least expensive to insure (Call your agent if you don't believe me)

Most difficult to dent in class

Best after sale service from dealer in class (JD Powers)

Best looking in class ** (especially with the new 17" alloys and standard privacy glass)

** Subjective but I'm sure everyone agrees

dindak · October 2003

VUE is cheaper to insure, no doubt. I got quotes last year for Escape, VUE, CR-V and it was over $100 cheaper / year.

julians · October 2003

My 2003 VUE is cheaper to insure than my wife's 1992 Toyota Corolla. Go figure.

michaellno · October 2003

I'm going in to my local Saturn dealer tomorrow for service on my '03 L300. I've just talked with a salesman about test driving an '04 AWD V6 VUE - loaded with leather, sunroof, etc. I'm hoping to take it home and show the wife, run an errand or two, then bring it back and pick up my car.

Salesman, of course, wanted to talk deal. My question is this: I work for a company that allows me to buy as a GM Supplier -- the salesman told me the price would be a flat 4% over invoice. Where do I find invoice prices for Saturns? Edmunds does not have them -- all I see is "N/A" for base price and all options. I'd love to have some numbers figured out.

Any thoughts?

nortsr1 · October 2003

Ifd you go to carsdirect.com, they have the MSRP and invoice prices posted.

michaellno · October 2003

Nope ... CarsDirect.com shows me "N/A" for invoice price as well. I can configure the vehicle with the options I want, but no invoice price seems to be available.

afk_x · October 2003

Your salesperson is incorrect.

The GM supplier price is 4.5% over GM Employee price + transportation which typically works out to about 300 over invoice. It used to be 4% over employee price, but recently was increased.

If you want to know the approximate invoice price take the MSRP and subtract 1200 for a well equipped 04 V6 VUE.

Also - I would be suprised if you could get the VUE at supplier price. My dealership is very open to supplier deals normally but on the 04 V6 we are not doing them because of inventory shortage.

Finally - if you come in with your supplier paperwork (required for a supplier purchase) they will actually show you the invoice and how GM supplier price is calculated.

Hope this helps.

zapcat · October 2003

I bought my 2003 V6 vue using GMS + 4% last march.
I saved $840 off of the $22900 sticker price.

nortsr1 · October 2003

afk-x,
  From your posts, I assume you work at a Saturn dealership. I realize that you sell your products for MSRP, however; I have heard that in order to make up for this, due to such competition with other brands, because of their large rebates, etc.; that Saturn dealerships sometimes give a higher trade-in allowance to entice the deal.????? The reason I ask is because I am in the market to purchase a 2004 Vue V6, FWD,within the next couple of months. I have already been given an $800.00 add-on {bonus incentive sent to me by GM card} to my GM card, which takes me from $1200.00 to $2000.00...and a $750.00 credit coupon good at Saturn dealers or $1000.00 at Chev. dealers.
  I saw that there was a $2000.00 incentive on the 2003 Vues' and I assume, that sooner or later there will be an incentive for the 2004's.
  I am attempting to "sell" my vehicle, however;
if they in fact do offer a better trade-in...it would then pay me to trade rather than sell due to the state sales tax {6% in Brevard Co., Florida}.
  Any comments would be appreciated.
                              Thanks

vuefor2 · October 2003

I wish I could have got a GMS price, I paid list.

:-(

I could see the 2004 V6 Vues not having much in the way of incentives. New engine and interior upgrades should be a big selling point.

dindak · October 2003

afk_x : Do you have any idea if Saturn will pick up the new 170hp 2.4L Ecotec for the VUE next year (2005)? I would probably go for a 4 banger if it produced a bit more power.

vue42 : There might be a shortage of V6 motors, but I have a feeling GM could get more than 50K engines if the VUE is selling that well.

saskheat · October 2003

Anyone put a remote starter in their Vue yet. I'm looking at taking the plunge as winter is setting in here on the Prairies. First 20 Below zero tonight. I have a '01 SC1. Due to some problem intereferance with something on the SC1 Called a Factory BCM, I had to get a special frequency of remote starter put in. This intereferance caused the remote start to lock up after 20 seconds, when this BCM thing did its job, after shutting the vehicle ignition off. Apparently Newer chev cavaliers are prone to this too.
Has anyone had similar experiences with the Vue or suffered limited range problems? Even with the new 433Mhz starter in the SC1 I can only get about one city block in the wide open out of it. I have seen other remote starters work at twice that distance.

stever · October 2003

Looks like '04 pricing info is up, but we still don't have invoice numbers. Looks like all the spec info is up too. (link)

Steve, Host

afk_x · November 2003

Under the 04 they list the following cons:

Bland interior, low-grade plastics, inconsistent build quality, noisy four-cylinder, vague steering.

Seems like they are reviewing the old VUE and remembering what their 02 was like. Hey Edmunds - this is the 2004 model year!

Bland interior - compared to what? Certainly not the competition in the price range.

Low-grade plastics - see above.

Inconsistant build quality - hmmm I have seen 5 times more VUES than all the editors at Edmunds combined. Where do they get the information that VUEs have "inconsistant build quality"? Hey back when they first starting building these things - they had a few teething issues. That was almost 2 years ago...

Noisy 4 cyl - ok - agreed the 4 cyl is somewhat noisy when you are trying to win the stop light drag race. Then again - have these people ever been in an Escape at 80 MPH? Holy wind and road noise! The VUE 4 cyl is only ~somewhat~ noisy under hard acceleration, at 80 is as quiet or quieter than anything in the clss.

Vaugue steering - sounds like someone needs to go drive an 04. Its not incredibly sharp like the Rav4 but I wouldn't call it vaugue. Slightly vauge - somewhat vauge - sure - but vauge? No.

I would really like to see an Edmunds mini-ute round up so the 04 VUE could dazzle the Edmunds reviewers with its power and smooth quiet ride. They won't even notice the "low grade plastics" and "inconsistant build quality".

Edmunds says ...

"informed car buyers would be wise to shop around before putting their money on the Saturn."

I agree - go check out what they have to offer. It doesn't compare! Seriously - I haven't had a single customer come in and drive the 04 VUE and then go buy a competitor's vehicle.

I cannot stress this enough. The 04 V6 VUE is fantastic and stands head and shoulders above the competition.

I haven't even mentioned looks - since they are totally subjective - but the V6 VUE with the $300 optional 17" wheels (standard on AWD) and a spoiler - OOOOhhhh nice.

afk_x · November 2003

"I have heard that ... Saturn dealerships sometimes give a higher trade-in allowance to entice the deal.?????"

Every Saturn store is run differently. I can tell you that more than anything it depends what you are buying. Just like any other dealership Saturn stores are run via supply and demand. Try to buy a Toyota Prius close to invoice and see how you do. Try a Camry and you may get it UNDER invoice. My point? I think you will find that for the V6 VUE that your trade value will not be inflated. Still - if you feel the need - try to negotiate the figures they initially give you. It doesn't hurt to ask.

"I saw that there was a $2000.00 incentive on the 2003 Vues' and I assume, that sooner or later there will be an incentive for the 2004's."

Currently there ARE incentives on the 04 VUE - the 4 cyl has $750 + 0.0% or 1500. The 6 cyl has 3.9% or 1000. What the future will bring - I don't know.

Hope this helps.

afk_x · November 2003

afk_x : Do you have any idea if Saturn will pick up the new 170hp 2.4L Ecotec for the VUE next year (2005)? I would probably go for a 4 banger if it produced a bit more power.

I don't have any idea. My ~guess~ would be no they won't, since the VTI transmission is not rated to handle lots of tourque.

My suggestion : go test drive the 3.5 Honda V6.

nortsr1 · November 2003

afk-x,
  Thanks for the reply. I did not know about the $1000.00 rebate on the V6 Vue's. As for the trade-in part...I am attempting to sell my 2001 Escape on my own.
                     Thanks again,
                        NortSr1

dindak · November 2003

I like the 3.0 V6 so I'm sure I would like the 3.5. I just think I would likely save a couple of grand and get a 4 banger if they put the 2.4L Ecotec in next year. Who knows, maybe they will and dump the CVT?

BTW. I disagree with Edmunds also. The VUE interior for 04 is much better. I suspect they have not even looked, they just reissued the old report.

stever · November 2003

Letters to the Editors

Steve, Host

dindak · November 2003

No offence but I never get the impression they care.

stever · November 2003

If enough of y'all lump on them, they'll care :-)

Threaten not to buy the book if they don't shape up!

Steve, Host

rocketbob · November 2003

I finally got around to pricing the 2004 vs the
2003 I bought. My 2003 with Abs and alloy wheels
and cd-cassette radio listed at $30,080 Canadian including freight and air conditioning tax.

The equivalent 2004 lists at $30,190.For $100
bucks more, the 2004 is a real deal with the larger engine and "better" interior.

I guess increase in the Canadian dollar has paid
off.

dindak · November 2003

steve : Actually, you don't see Edmunds' books much up here which I always thought was odd. Very hard to buy though I have done so in the past.

rocket : Price didn't really go up in the U.S. either. Has little to do with the FX rate.

stever · November 2003

I think the books are getting a bit more common down here - for a while there I didn't see them at the bookstores at all.

Too bad we don't do Canadian pricing. Could sell a ton of books since y'all have to pay to get invoice pricing.

Steve, Host

dindak · November 2003

Ya, we have to pay for it. Doesn't matter with Saturn though.

;-)

michaellno · November 2003

Thanks for the info. I was able to test drive an '04 AWD V6 on Friday (myh observations to be posted when I've got a few spare minutes here at work).

Don't know where in the US you are, but my dealer had many (10? 12?) AWD V6's on the lot -- all colors. At least, I'm assuming they are the V6's because of the 5 spoke 17" wheels.

Sticker price on the car I drove was $26K and change -- equipped almost exactly like we want it except for the lack of a sunroof. Dealer had added a few things, so "their" price was just north of $27K.

When I bought my L300 a year ago, I filled out the GM Supplier stuff and gave it to the dealer a few days after the deal was made, so I never saw the invoice. We negotiated a deal that I thought was fair. This time, I'll have the paperwork completed beforehand.

Thanks for the info on price and discounts --- now I'll have some idea of what to expect, price wise, when we decide to buy next spring.

maynardf1 · November 2003

"The VUE interior for 04 is much better. I suspect they have not even looked, they just reissued the old report."

Hey dindak, what makes it much better? All I've been able to notice is a different steering wheel and some bezels around the i.p. gauges. Is there more?

dindak · November 2003

Main enhancements are.. "leather-wrapped three-spoke steering wheel, leather shift knob with chrome ring, light argent-finish interior trim plates and new seat fabric".

Also added are sound-deadening materials to make the interior quieter though I have not tested one yet.

I think it looks much better.

afk_x · November 2003

The interior is nicer looking, nicer feeling, and signifigantly quieter.

Laugh if you want but the closest thing I could compare it to is the used RX300 Lexus we had a couple months ago. The VUE is much faster of course...

nwng · November 2003

dindak:

is it still:

full plastic door panels, inside

no grab handles

dindak · November 2003

Can't remember, I only looked in the windows and mostly at the dash and center stack.

michaellno · November 2003

As promised, here is my review of the 2004 Saturn VUE AWD V6. I was able to drive one about 50+ miles while my other Saturn (a 2003 L300) was in for service.

The car I drove was silver with the gray leather interior. Along with the leather, it also had the 6-CD changer, the side curtain airbags, power seats and the floor mats as options. Sticker price was, as I mentioned, $26,xxx. There was a dealer added sticker (pinstripes and a couple of other things that I dont remember) that bumped the asking price to over $27,000.

First impressions were good. The 17 5-spoke alloy wheels fill out the wheel wells much better than the 16 wheels from last year. Plus, I like the plain spoke pattern  for some reason, the pattern of the 16 wheels turned me off. The rear hatch has been redesigned slightly for 04. The lift handle is now matte black with a large SATURN engraved into it much more noticeable than the 03s. Other than that, I didnt see any major differences with the 03 very clean looking, IMO.

The silver of the vehicle I drove (it was actually the sales managers demo) is a fairly neutral color  the dealer had lots of AWD V6s on the lot in all colors. The bright blue and the green appealed to me. Im not real keen on white or black, while the orange was just odd. Since the new vehicle (whatever it turns out to be) is to be the wifes daily driver, I wont have much say in what color she gets, but she is partial to the green and, surprisingly, the silver. The bright blue has an outside chance, as she currently drives a VW New Beetle in the Blue Mica color.

Opening the door gave me the first opportunity to see the new for 04 interior. I had sat in an 03 once or twice and was less than impressed  a fairly generic Saturn interior greeted me. The 04 was a (slightly) different story. The redesigned gauges were quite handsome  I really liked the chrome bezel around each dial, though the cream of the background was a bit too yellow for my liking. Still and all, a definite improvement over last year. The rest of the interior seemed the same as before the same weird positioning of the power window switches (after a year with my L300, I still find myself looking for them on the drivers door), a similar (though not exactly the same) stereo controls. One other item I found odd was that the power mirror controls and the rheostat (which controls the brightness of the dashboard and interior lights) were also on the center console, just under the center vents. There are no controls on the dashboard on either side of the steering wheel. That would certainly take some getting used to.

The seat was pretty much adjusted for me, so Im guessing that the sales manager who drives it daily is about my height (5 11). The captain chairs with the separate armrests are a nice touch, but unfortunately my girth prevented me from using the one on my seat as it was intended.

The engine starts up and settles into a nice, quiet idle. But, man, exercise your right foot and prepare to be amazed! That 250-hp, Honda sourced V6 just powers that VUE like you would not believe! The transmission seems to be optimized for the torque and power peaks that the engine provides. Its hard not to stick your foot into it as you zip away from every signal and stop sign. I would imagine that it kills the gas mileage, however..

The ride is nice and compliant, as well, with enough cornering stick to make the off ramps fun. It rides like a larger vehicle  smooth tracking on the highway, with a firm, but not overly stiff, ride on surface streets.

In our house, the standard of comfort the wife and I use is Could we see ourselves taking this vehicle to Las Vegas? (Las Vegas is 775 miles from us on mostly empty interstate highways). For me, at least, the jury is still out. The seat, while power operated, seems to be a bit short on seat cushion length for me. Other than that, I had no problems getting comfortable. If I used the cruise control liberally, then I can see doing a 12 hour stint without too much fatigue.

I was quite impressed with the amount of room in the rear seat. Even though our kids are teenagers and rarely ride with us, we do sometimes have folks back there, and its nice to know that there is enough room for legs, feet, arms and shoulders. Cant imagine three people back there  it just doesnt seem wide enough. Two, though, could be comfortable for a several hour trip.

The area behind the rear seats is certainly not as large as in our 2002 Explorer, but for a small cute-ute SUV, its not too bad. I really like the contraption that unfolds from the floor that allows groceries to be corralled without having stuff roll all about.

The wife liked it quite a bit, especially the amount of power. She definitely likes vehicles that can get out of their own way and the VUE certainly fits that description.

Is a VUE in our future? Hard to say. The lease on our Explorer is not up until next April, so we have plenty of time to think about what we want. The Subaru Forester XT is something that we both would like to drive (though the wife is not as keen on the looks  too much station wagon in her words). If we want to blow the budget, the VW Touraeg has caught her eye, as has the Infiniti FX35. But, if first impressions are anything to go by, the VUE seems to be a strong contender, at least this early in the game.

afk_x · November 2003

I have a question - did you happen to notice the "inconsistant build quality" that Edmunds editors spoke of?

dindak · November 2003

Thanx for the review. I will not test a 3.5L VUE till next year when we start looking but it's always nice to see good reviews.

michaellno · November 2003

Nope, didn't see any problems with the way my demo vehicle was screwed together. It had 1200 miles on it, by the way, and still seemed pretty tight.

One thing I didn't mention in the review (I was under a bit of time stress when I wrote it), was that it seemed a bit spartan inside, especially for something that costs in excess of 25 large. My L300, by comparison, looks like a luxury car inside. I made this observation to my wife, who responded "Well, it's a sport UTILITY vehicle, isn't it?". Guess I can't argue with that.

She drove it for a few miles and was quite impressed. She is only 5'3" and it fits her quite nicely -- she says it has good sight lines and can "feel" the size of the car, which for her is immportant as she can position it nicely in parking spaces and when backing up. Something she cannot say about the New Beetle she currently drives.

nortsr1 · November 2003

Go to post #11448 at the Honda CRV forum. There was an interesting post about reliability ratings from Consumer's Report, The Honda CRV was "plus 60" and the Vue was nearly at the bottom with a "minus 60". I don't know what it is actually based on, however; I was in shock when I read the report as posted.
  I have always been under the impression that the Vue was always rated high on the reliability list????
  I was all set to purchase a 2004 Vue, however; now, I have my doubts.
  Any comments would be appreciated.

afk_x · November 2003

Consumer reports reccomended the VUE last year and now it doesn't because based upon their calculations it is less than average reliability.

I just found out about this yesterday.

Ironically consumer reports now reccomends the L300.

In my opinion you have nothing to worry about with the VUE reliability. The 2002 VUEs and to a lesser extent the 2003 VUEs have had a variety of small issues such as :

struts groaning

bad batch of fuel guages

VTI software glitches

None of the VUE issues are big. None would leave you stranded. Most owners of VUEs have never had a problem. The small issues I refer to, all of them have been resolved so if you are considering a 2004 go ahead. The VUE to me was decent vehicle, but with the 04 improvments I am considering one for my next vehicle.

afk_x · November 2003

Consumer reports is good and I like them. There are two problems with them in my opinion.

1. They don't differentiate between a big or little issue. So a squeak counts the same as a complete engine failure.

2. They don't disclose everything fully rather relying on percentages keeping the underlying numbers unknown. For example if I have a CRV and it has 1 problem and the VUE has had 3 problems over the same period it is correct to say the VUE has 300% more problems than the CRV. This is a misleading statement but thats exactly what consumer reports does and they don't tell you what the percentages they give you are based upon.

There are quite a few other problems - you can read about it here.

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

nortsr1 · November 2003

afk-x,
Thanks, that was an interesting referral.

carguy1234 · November 2003

I've went around with them in the past on their statistical shortcomings in regards to their rating system. In addition to the valid points afk_x made, another is that some people just plain lie on the surveys. I know a guy who has an Odyssey and had the tranny fail, but he did not disclose it on his form. I give him guff about it, but he says "I don't want Honda to look bad. I hate Toyota". So factor in that logic too on their or other surveys.

saskheat · November 2003

One further thing to consider. Did Consumer reports make a distinction between V-6 models and 4cyls with those horrendous Vti transmissions or did they lump them together? That tranny is going to haunt Saturn. Maybe this is the beginning???

dindak · November 2003

Take it all with a grain of salt. They change their mind on cars every year. Serious flaws in data collection. That said, all the car rating services have flaws. I prefer JD Power, they tend to distinguish major from minor issues.

I think the initial CVT issues (which weren't there last year) may have pushed the VUE under the average.

Saturn VUE

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