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Comments
First, I wouldn't waste my hard-earned college money on a used one to save $1000, because in this case, there is a high history of failures on the original transmission that came with this car, and I'd surmise a used one from a junked car would not be one of the transmissions that saw a lot of preventive care, even though they might guarantee it would work when they install it. You might pay less now, and be right back where you started a short time after the warrantee expires.
My own opinion and advice is to go with a freshly rebuilt unit, because it's likely to have been rebuilt with more modern (updated) parts than the original design (there were a lot of updates/Technical Service Bulletins after a history of warrantee issues right from the beginning), and a modernly rebuilt unit is likely to last where the original was not very durable.
A used one, or one made for an ES (if it will work) or other model would likely not be very durable, not built to be stout enough for the RX, and likely not last very long at all. The rest of the car is likely to be very reliable if you take care of it, for the most part.
If you hear of a recall or class action suit please let me know. I'm outraged to pay $4,500 just to get this POS back on the road.
Given the "background", no harm in trying, I would.
any vehicle over 75K, with a legitimate company, then risk a transmission
or engine failure, regardless of the manufacturer of your vehicle.
I had a 2002 6cyl Explorer and the transmission went out at 39K (when Ford
had a 3 years 36 K warranty). I paid $ 100 deductible for my re-built transmission
because of my extended service plan instead of $ 3,300 at dealer, although
admittedly the plan cost $ 1,200 when I originally purchased the vehicle.
Good luck to all of us. We need a lawyer!
"erroneously telling the clutch to engage.."
Yes, in a strange way the main computer is the problem. The firmware within the engine/transaxle ECU (computer), in reality.
In order to fit a necessarily more robust Camry transaxle into an RX300 some sacrifices had to be made. So the Camry transaxle's pressure holding/sustaining accumulator was dropped from the design to make room for the larger, more robust gears and clutches that were required to support, not only a much heavier vehicle, but an AWD vehicle as well.
What resulted is the lack of the ability of the new transaxle to support two gear changes in quick succession, quick sequence, especially so if the engine happens to be idling, or nearly so.
"But that never happens, or almost never happens", or so, seemingly, the Lexus design engineers so thought at the time.
The core, base, problem is this:
When you lift your foot from the gas pedal the engine RPM will fairly quickly drop to idle. With no accumulator the ATF line pressure in the transaxle will now start dropping due to the normal fluid leakage level throughout the transaxle and valve body.
Now, think of yourself driving a stick shift wherein the clutch spring is not quite as strong as it should, might, be. As you coast down to a stop, clutch engaged, using a bit of engine compression braking, the clutch slips due to the weak spring instead of FORCING a higher engine RPM.
Clutch doesn't last very long if you do that very often, right..??
Right.
But that part, aspect, the engineers apparently foresaw.
Have you noticed, as you coast down from 10-0 MPH to a stop, that feeling of being bumped slightly from behind..? Or how about during throttle closed coastdowns from say, 40 to 30 MPH. Feel that "slingshot effect", that "lurching, surge" forward feeling...??
It once was the case that the transaxle (automatic transmissions in general) would go ahead and downshift into first gear at some point as you coast down below ~10 MPH. No more, "these" transaxles will only downshift into 1st gear after coming to a full and complete stop. Even worse yet these transaxles actually upshift as you coastdown below 10 MPH. That's because with the engine at idle there is not enough ATF pressure, sustained pressure, to hold the clutches engaged to sustain even a slight level of engine compression braking.
Same thing during throttle closed coastdowns at 40-30 MPH. Engine at idle, no sustained ATF pressure, UPSHIFT to prevent clutch wear due to clutch slipping resulting from engine compression braking.
So far, so good, right..??
Even better.
Should the roadbed be somewhat slippery inadvertent engine compression braking on a FWD or F/AWD vehicle can quickly lead to desaster.
But regrettably that wasn't, isn't "END of STORY".
The problem that quickly arose is explained most explicitly in the TSB issued in the summer of 1993 involving DBW in the 1993 Camry.
In short, we don't always drive in the way the engineers expected us to, we would.
Sometimes we quickly go from a period of "coastdown" sometimes even a very brief period of coastdown, to a wish/desire to accelerate.
So, as we see above, these new '99+, engine/transaxle ECU's have firmware that will quickly upshift the transaxle in certain "coastdown" circumstances. But what if, by pure happenstance, just as the ECU issues the upshift command to the transaxle, the driver depresses the gas pedal in a desire (need, even DESPERATE NEED...??) to accelerate, QUICKLY accelerate..??
Hey, the ECU will cause the transaxle to "follow" your "command". At least to the extent that it can do so with the limited supply of ATF line pressure, VERY limited supply of ATF line pressure in this instance with two shifts required in short sequence and all with the engine at idle.
Oops, forgot to mention, with the '99 to '03 RX models the gas pedal is HARD WIRED to the throttle, so when you depress the gas pedal the engine doesn't wait to respond(***), the engine RPM begins to rise instantly, even though the transaxle upshift clutches haven't yet engaged, let alone the clutches for the now upcoming DOWNSHIFT.
Premature clutch wear, transaxle failures, you betcha...!!
It appears, seeming, that by mid-'00 model year the engineers has realized their mistake, over sight, and it appears that their quick fix was to enlarge the pumping capacity of the ATF gear type fluid pump. That result in more pumping capacity with the engine at idle and therefore quicker and firmer seating of the clutches, but also resulted in localized, gear type pump itself, heating of the ATF.
Was anyone able to buy an '01 to '03 RX300 absent the extra ATF cooling provided by the supposedly OPTIONAL towing package...??
Anyway. The recommended preventative maintainance period for ATF flush/drain/refill was revised from NEVER to every 15,000 miles as a result of the overheating of the ATF in '01-'03 model year RX300s.
***With the introduction of the RX330 DBW, E-throttle, was adopted primarily to prevent the engine RPM from rising in direct response to the gas pedal in the above circumstances. Only after the transaxle clutches are fully and firmly seated (1-2 seconds, or even more..??) will the engine be allowed to respond to the gas pedal.
Let's all hope an RX330 or RX350 owner never has a need to quickly accelerate out of one of these situations.
It helps, encourages me, that I own an '01 AWD RX300.
I called AAA for a tow, only to be told that there were 26 people ahead of me (long weekend) and that I'd have to wait until the tow truck could get to me. I waited 4 hours on the side of the busy freeway until finally the tow truck showed up. He towed me straight to a Toyota dealership. The next day they called to inform me that I'd need a replacement transmission, and that it would be about $5,200 out the door with tax and everything.
I paid the charge, and have put 17K miles on the new transmission in 18 months. So far so good, but I will probably sell this Lexus in another 6 months or so. Other than the transmission failing (!) it's been a good car. At close to 9 years old, it still rides very smooth and quiet on 3+ year-old Michelin tires. My wife nagged me to get a Lexus due to the reliability, so I was disappointed that my transmission blew at less than 100K. Now I feel maybe the Japanese cars aren't so much better than the US-made cars.
We also bought a Toyota mini-van and it has had a lot of problems. It goes through front brakes every 12K, the rubber seal around the front windshield came loose and had to be replaced, the sunglasses compartment broke, etc, etc. Lots of small stuff, but still kind of annoying. Not even 50K on it yet. It's a 2005 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited.
And I remember hearing about quality problems a year or two ago with the Toyota Tundras. So when you add all this up, I don't know that the Japanese cars are all that much better on the quality side, and the Lexus vehicles are particularly expensive to begin with.
Does anyone know of a good Trans repair shop in the So Cal area? Not that I don't trust my local guy, but if there is a shop that specializes in RX300s, I'd give them a look.....
One thing's a given - Once it's fixed, I'm selling it!!! So much for Lexus/Toyota reliability..... I filed a complaint as well at the NHTSA link in foxy2319's post above, but I doubt anything will come of it..... Thanks to all for the info.
So I hope this one lasts a long time (it seems like it will), but I'm bored with the car's benign handling and the fuel economy, while good for a vehicle of it's type, is not what I need now. It comes down to this: The car is worth more to me than it is to sell, and other than the transmission (covered by Lexus) and a couple minor things has been very reliable and feature-rich.
I hope SWatson you can call around and find a better price, perhaps at a Lexus or Toyota dealer if they know you're shopping. It seems the price varies depending on perceived value. They may tow it for you, too. A 3 year warrantee is longer, but it shouldn't make a difference if you can ensure the new one is better built than the original (a more modern design).
I have maintained this car according to the owner's manual and cannot believe this happened.
I drove a Volkswagen and a BMW for 20 years and had 100,000 mi on each and never, never had to replace anything but the brakes.
I have contacted Lexus only to have many empty promises that they would look into it.
I have recently read some blogs of other unfortunate Lexus owners that have also suffered this very expensive repair with no hint as to why.
Has anyone had any success in dealing with Lexus in having them step-up-to-the-plate and make things right?
If there is a class action suit out there, please count me in!
Unfortunately, routine service does not mean any transmission service at all. How's that for "service"? Dealers may be quick to point you to their expensive service "packages" but I've never seen those include actually servicing the transmission and inspecting the pan (before or after the long Lexus warrantee expires).
I've always thought low-mileage use is "severe" but for some reason (profit?) some dealers don't tell you that you should add frequent tranny service, and you find out when it's too late. Servicing the transmission often may or may not help, but you might find out before it's too late, and in most cases before the Lexus warrantee expires.
I've learned it's a good idea to specify what you want serviced (see the owners manual and apply your good sense) rather than routine service packages, and this is a very common concern.
Please keep us posted how things are going.
What was the reply from Lexus to your transmission problem? My RX300 2001 went out two days ago when it reached 77,450 miles. I wan to contact Lexus. What would you suggest in my complaint when I call Lexus?
I called Lexus customer service to report the problem. They took down my information and said they would return my call. I kept calling them approximately every other day. They finally called back to say that they would not repair the problem and I asked them to send my case to review by a supervisor, which they did. Once the supervisor reviewed the case they agreed to pay for the transmission but not the labor. I tried to get them to pay for the labor or discount it which they did not, but I was satisfied that they at least paid for the cost of the part which was approximately $2800. When you call the customer service group be sure to let them know that you are aware that there is a major problem with the model year, mention that you have seen the information on blogs and that it is a very dangerous problem which could have resulted in serious bodily injury to your self and whomever else was in the car when the transmission failed. I was very nice when I kept calling but I was persistent. This took approximatly four weeks to get resolved, because if they agree to repair it, this will be considered a goodwill gesture. They will probably cover the entire cost of your repair since you car is low mileage. Since I purchased my car at a Lexus dealearship and had it exclusively serviced there those were two things I had on my side, and since my car was towed to Lexus after the problem it made them more agreeable to providing compensation in the form of a part for the repair. The trick with them is to be persistant and to not take no for an answer and to cite that this is a serious problem. Also, even though this took four weeks to resolve, if your car is at a Lexus dealership for service they will provide you with a loaner car while your case is in review and you are trying to decide how you want to proceed. I mention this because most people will end up giving up and paying for the repair instead of being without a car for a month. Please let me know if I can offer any more assistance and how things turn out for you.
I just bought a 99 this week, took it for a trip downstate (Mi), had some problems up shifting into OD after stopping @ rest area. Switching to POWER allowed me to rev it up high enough at a reasonable speed to allow it to shift, then I switched back to normal setting.
I also thought it might be a problem involving the shift triggering impulse (you called it the ECU).
If the burnt trans is a symptom of a bigger problem, I may change the trans oil to limp it along until I can ditch it.
I was very impressed with your historical narrative of this issue. Are you aware of any progress in getting Toyota to "own up" to this problem? I would like to keep this (nice) car if I thought it would be dependable, but I'll probably get rid of it.
I hate to just pass it off on an unsuspecting guy without trying to help the other poor souls who trusted (will trust) this mfgr and got (will get) burned.
This kind of irresponsible dishonesty is extremely distasteful to me and I will file a complaint with the appropriate athorities, but believe the mfgr must be held to account for this obvious breech of integrity and disregard for the safety of those who trust their marketing rhetoric
Please advise.
Thanks,
wimedalo
You said you spoke with a couple different people in Lexus corp, where do you suggest I start to seek an adjustment on a failing tranny in a 99 RX300 AWD? It hasn't actually failed just yet, it is not consistently going into overdrive.
I don't remember reading about this specific type of problem, do you?
I am very concerned about the car's reliability now and have major reservations about trusting my wife in this car in the harsh Northern Michigan winters. I want to get the car fixed before it totally fails if I can, got any ideas?
Will changing the (lightly toasted) transmission oil improve its shifting reliability? Are there any (magic) additives I could put in with the oil to improve it's operation?
Just wondering,
Thanks,
wimedalo
I was also fortunate enough to have a similar experience, a positive one. I'd written in this forum a few months back about how I purchased a "new to me" RX300 (2000) with 100K miles on it. The dealership had the vehicle warmed up for me when I test drove it but when I started it up at home and I accelerated out of my driveway to a 55 mph road, there was a distinct hesitation. They initially "serviced" it but since that didn't help, they replaced it with a rebuilt transmission at no cost to me. Lexus paid for half and the dealership paid for half. This was much appreciated especially since I purchased the vehicle "as is". I am very fortunate to have this Lexus dealership in my area. Thanks Lexus of Brookfield.
I do the same thing. I find automatics that are underdesigned and don't allow for manual shifting very annoying. I'm used to manuals and motorcycles, and would rather have a little more control, myself.
A transmission guy told me to be careful with the downshift into second gear (2) for cornering and braking. But I still shift into "2" when necessary or when it's already in second to hold the gear it's in before it has a chance to upshift into third.
The uphill under-load manual downshift from OD (4) into third before it automatically occurs is apparently helpful to avoid transmission wear, to avoid the automatic shift when pump pressure is low.
If you have your tranny serviced (pan dropped checking for debris, new filter, gasket, and type IV fluid) at least every two years (even though it's not a requirement in the manual), don't do a lot of extended idling and low-speed maneuvers and haven't had any problems, my guess is you're OK. Not all the original transmissions were bad. My friend has a couple hundred thousand miles on his 2000 4WD, and it does not beat the fluid the way my early '99 2WD did before the tranny was replaced.
Let us know how it goes.
Everyone should know that downshifting ANY FWD or F/AWD vehicle for braking purposes is potentially DANGEROUS. I suspect it is to that end that transaxles are intentially designed (programmed, really) to provide a lower level of engine compression braking than their RWD and R/AWD counterparts.
I will go ahead and have them drop the pan next service. I have been rather particular about only doing what is in the manual but this looks like an exception.
You make valid points. My '99 2WD took more fluid than the owners manual shows. A lot more. I was trying to be careful not to overfill it (which would have been even worse), and was surprised how much more it took after my second trip to get more from the parts dept. Finally, I went over to the service dept. at the Toyota dealer to have them double-check that I didn't overfill it regardless of the dipstick, and they were sure it did take more, and topped it off for me free.
Maybe some do hold more than others. Mine with an extra cooler was nearly 7 quarts without dropping the pan, and that's not 4WD.
Also your point about the type of fluid is important. Many times Type IV fluid is not in stock at an independent shop. When (if) they order the quantity specified in the service manual and run short, they start adding Dextron III. I cringed when I saw this done to me. Make sure you have enough. It's a good idea to have a few spare quarts on hand, even if you have a qualified shop do the work. That way you can say "I have more if it takes more than you have on hand".
As for the additive, please let us know how that works out. I like Lucas brand stuff, but hesitate to put anything in the tranny but type IV.
With a simple "gravity" drain, including the diff'l, I am of the belief that if you put in more than 5 quarts of ATF something is very seriously WRONG.
Lexus made many "updates" to the original design each year. They also replaced some under warrantee with newer designs. Apparently, some just have larger capacities than others (and the owners manual). Mine like many others does not have the original transmission, and even takes a different filter than the manual calls for (original used a filter screen). I don't know that is what accounts for the difference, since I'm not qualified to say. The extra added cooler and lines could only add a few extra ounces, less than a pint at the most; it's the thin stacked-plate design. And there has not been any foaming or other signs of overfilling.
The point of the original post was that some may be underfilled (causing problems first mimicking, then leading to failure) when adding only what the manual calls for and not checking it again to make sure it's right, and that's definately been my experience, too. But sure, be careful not to overfill it. That can be pretty bad, too.
I hope Bou got a great deal on the car, and it continues to perform well. I'll be curious to hear back about it.
Firstly, you may not have the original transmission. I was led to believe the '99 models had a filter screen and not an actual filter, unless the tranny was replaced with what they called an "updated design". That may account for the extra fluid capacity. And that's how my car is now.
Secondly and most important for this group, I'm curious what you found when you changed the filter. Was there much debris in the pan? Was the filter filled with worn material, or was it clean?
Good luck with your "new" car!
The second time (42,000 miles, the first drain/refill did not clear things up) I drained the ATF I also dropped the pan. The "filter" screen was quite clean and the three magnets had some small amount of metal filings but not enough to worry me. The bottom of the pan was covered with about 1/8" of fine power which looked much like ground up pencil lead.
Now above 70,000 miles and the ATF still looks and smells reasonably new.