Toyota 4Runner

jbwh · January 2003

steffen06: I completely agree with passthegravy: the non-power seats in the new 4Runer adjust noticeably further than the power ones. I am 6'6" as well, and could not fit in the Limited with its power seats, but i do fit in my new Sport Edition with its manual seats (Admittedly i just barely fit). I'm not a fan of big vehicles, so I'm pretty use to barely fitting in what i drive anyway (my other car is a Supra Turbo - also barely fit). My new 4Runner fits as well as my 1990 4Runner i traded in for it did. The new one rocks.

intmed99 · January 2003

The 3rd gen 4Runners did well in Consumer Report's handling tests. It did not lift a wheel.

The '03 4Runner is significantly lower than the 3rd gen...therefore, it's center of gravity is much improved. I would expect it to get 3 stars.

I read (Car & Driver) that the GX470 has a very low center of gravity. GX engineer said that it was nearly impossible to roll the GX. I assume the same is true for the '03 4Runner.

peter78 · January 2003

It is true the 3rd generation got 2 stars for rollover. It is also true it is a static non-moving test. If you look at a 3rd generation 4Runner it is quite tall and narrow. The wheels are out as far a they can be, but still it got only 2 stars. The 4th generation is quite wider, a bit lower, also lower to the ground and has a longer wheel base, all these factors should help in the static test. It is also heavier, which is a negative. It should do better, as far as three stars, we will have to see.

Consumer Reports thinks a rollover test should be a moving test. That is what they do, and they get sued every time a SUV does not pass their test. I know Consumer Reports has asked the government to come up with a moving rollover test, but no standards have been done.

It is also true the 3rd generation passed the Consumer Report test. It was came back with the fastest speed for the test, which included 4 other SUV's. (5 if you include the Montero which flunked the test.) Consumer Reports credits the VSC (vehicle skid control) in getting the good numbers.

intmed99 · January 2003

The MDX actually did worse around the cones than the '01 4runner with VSC! Woohoo, we actually beat a minivan!

J/K

jaredmsd · January 2003

First off, see my post #4789 regarding special orders. $500 over invoice is a good quote for a special order, but I'll assume they are quoting $500 over invoice for a car on the lot or a dealer trade, not a special order. I didn't find anyone that would do anything under $1000 over invoice on a build order, but if you did, more power to you.

"I have heard that some dealers might be offering incentives (0% APR or 1500 off invoice!?!?)."

I think $1500 off INVOICE is unlikely, but I might be wrong. $1500 off MSRP is possible, because that's about $2000 over invoice.

As far as the spoiler is concerned, I think it's probably cosmetic.

Hope I have been of some help.

tidester · January 2003

I know Consumer Reports has asked the government to come up with a moving rollover test, but no standards have been done.

Here's where you can read all about NHTSA Rollover Research

4runner03 · January 2003

We recently bought a new 2003 Toyota 4Runner Limited. I would like to know if anyone else is having the problem we are? Both outside rear view mirrors are blurred. A simple test is to hold your hand close to the mirror and view your hand in the mirror. If your hand appears blurred, then you are seeing the problem we have. Toyota says this seems to be a characteristic of the heated mirrors having the “Rain Clearing Coating” (From The Factory) on the mirrors. This blurring is very bothersome to me and under normal driving conditions gives my wife a headache. This problem has been seen on all 2003 4Runner Limited and Sport models we have seen. The mirrors on the 2003 SR5 4Runner are not heated nor do they have the “Rain Clearing Coating” on them and they appear clear. What do you know about this problem? Thank You.

skhosla · January 2003

Yeah, I can't believe that I am being offered 500$ over invoice. He started with 1000$ over, but I told him I had a quote of 500 over from another dealer (w/c is kind of far from where I stay), and he was willing to negotiate...

I wonder how come 4runner is being sold at 500-1000 over invoice in spite of more improvements in 2003. I mean, I would have expected it to be selling to closer to MSRP for a brand new redesign. I guess, people are not jumping for these as much as Toyota would have liked them to. People get put off by cladding of SR5s and prices of the Limited. Just a thought.

By the way, can someone comment on these:

1. Rear spoiler - useful or purely for cosmetics?
2. CD changer - is it smooth and quick or takes forever between changing CDs?
3. Invoice and MSRP for the DVD entertainment system. I know that Toyota is not manufacturing these yet, but I would have expected the price to come out by now for this option. Dealer says he can install it post-production for about 1800$.

Thanks again,
Samir

ricadrias · January 2003

can someone please comment on the pros and cons
of 1)timing belt vs timing chain 2)aluminum vs non aluminum engines on the new 03 4 runners?

jaredmsd · January 2003

Motortrend just put their SUV-of-the-year article online. As you know they only do a SUV-of-the-year and not a top 10 or anything, but the 4runner got a lot of praise.

main site
http://www.motortrend.com

article
http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/suv/112_0212_suv/index.html

peter78 · January 2003

I just used the search engine on this forum. It worked pretty good.

Last October a Toyota dealer on their website posted:

"The Toyota 4Runners engine uses a cast iron block for durability, while the Pathfinders engine use an aluminum block. Aluminum engine blocks are much more prone to warp and crack at high temperatures than cast iron."

I am sure they are not posting that now. Here are my pros & cons:

-----------------------------------------

Aluminum block: Pro: Lighter, better transfer of heat. Con: Read above paragraph found on a Toyota site last year; i.e. less durable. Also more expensive.

Cast Iron Block: Pro: Strong, durable, good under load, cheap. Cons: Heavy, transfers heat less than a aluminum engine.

-------------------------------------

Timing belt: Pro: Quiet, flexible, easier to replace. Con: Breaks before a chain, not as durable.

Timing chain: Pro: Strong, durable, will last longer. Con: Nosier, more expensive to replace.

I think a better question is "Is the engine a interference or non-interference engine?". Meaning when the timing belt or chain breaks do the valves get bent or not. I know the old 3.4 V6 is a non-interference engine, which is good. If I were looking at the difference between the engines, I would think this would be a big difference. Sorry, I don't know if either engine is a non-interference or not, perhaps someone can let us know.

Anyway, that is my two cents worth.

rentschl · January 2003

I really like my new v8 Limited but...

I looked at getting extra keys made for the new 4Runners. What a pain!

They have it setup so the dealers can ream you on this. The dealers don't seem to have the story straight on keys yet either.

The keys have a chip in them for added security. Supposedly you can only have 4 total keys programmed for the car. If you try to program another one, you need to have the controller EEPROM totally re-flashed (or buy a brand-new controller). To do this they have to take out the controller and send it somewhere. I heard that this annoyed Lexus owners so much that they started doing it free for them.

The dealer told me that you have to bring in ALL the keys when they program the new one. A new key cost $40 and the charge you 1 hour of labor at $80 for about $120 for a key.

Then I called a local locksmith and he agreed that was rediculous. He looked into it and found out that:

1. You don't need ALL the keys to program a new one. You only need 1.
2. He will sell the keys for $30
3. He'll help you program the key. The sequence involves getting in the car with the windows shut, turning the key in the ignition, pumping the brakes etc., etc. This seemed like it should be in the owner's manual.

My wife lost a key and transmitter on an earlier car and I cringe to think about going through all this if she loses 4Runner keys. Keep in mind that the transmitter is a another cost to replace that I haven't looked into either.

Anyway, the question is do you really only get 4 total keys before having to go through the re-flashing?

Does anybody have any other information on this?

Thanks in advance,
Eric

jere39 · January 2003

My 97 Manual transmission 4Runner will no longer pass PA Emission test, though there is no drivability issue, nor mpg issue. I have just about 96000 miles on the 4Runner, and intended to drive it much further. But I am being quoted $1300 for the converter and assorted sensors, brackets, clamps, labor, . . . to make the car legal here.

Advice?

toyotaken · January 2003

OK, this is from my own personal experience as well as from talking with the service tech, the service manager, and the regional Toyota service representative. First, it is not just a series of turning the key in the ignition and opening and closing the doors. This is what is needed for programming a remote. They actually need to plug a tool into the vehicle's computer system to program the Key. There is a maximum of 4 keys that can be programmed. You cannot program a new key unless you have another MASTER key to use during the process. I do not know if you need all other keys there at the time of the programming of a new key. Up until recently, if you lost all of the master keys, they needed to replace the whole computer system in the vehicle and get a replacement from Toyota. Just recently, they have a new procedure to basically "wipe" the old computer to re-initialize the system to program a new set of keys. We ran into this when I sold a Landcruiser that we only had the valet key for and wanted to make a new set of Masters. So, trust me, if there was any easier and less expensive way to do this we would have found it.

Hope this helps.

Ken

passthegravy · January 2003

I'm almost positive the v8 is an interference engine. I know the Tundra 4.7L v8 engine is, and the 4Runner is basically the same engine. But I don't know about the new v6. With it's fancy variable valve timing technology, I suspect that it is also. But don't quote me on that.

passthegravy · January 2003

I was doing a "Build Your Own" on Toyota's web site today, and I noticed that the description of the Side Curtain Airbag option says something about extension visors or something like that. (I don't have it in front of me now.) So, I'm wondering if that may be the difference. I.e., those with curtain airbags have the different visor. Perhaps it has something to do with one style of visor interfering with the airbags. Hmmm.

peter78 · January 2003

If the engines are interference engines, it is not the end of the world. I am basically a Honda person before the 4Runner and all of my Honda's are interference engines.

It is not a greatest engineering practice, you need to be sure to change the timing belt or chain when it is time to change. If you risk going further, you may have expensive repairs.

One concern I have about a timing chain with a interference engine is it is usually a long time before you have to change the timing chain. Usually 120,000 to 150,000 miles. Since it cost more to change a timing chain, I wonder if people who own a vehicle with 150,000 miles will be willing to spend the money to get it changed. Of course, if you buy a new vehicle, you probably won't keep it that long, it will be someone else's problem. : )

stephend2 · February 2003

We now have 300 miles on a 2003 4 runner sport. It was delivered with the steering wheel off center about 15 degrees and pulling to the left. The dealer has since done an alignment but did not give me a copy of the alignment print out that you usually get. I.E. caster camber toe before and after with the allowable specs. The wheel is just a bit off center still and the alignment seems to feel ok but has a dead "on centre" feel, like the sequoia, and seems to turn a bit easier left than right. I'm being picky here but really like it when my steering is right on. My previous 2001 sequoia had terrible Dunlops as delivered and the steering improved alot when I replaced them with Toyo's. My questions are AAA Am I expecting too much from the 265/65 17 Dunlop AT BBB Can you adjust the caster and camber as well as the toe or are the castor and camber factory set and non adjustable. My thinking is the dealer just centered the steering wheel and set the toe and left the castor improperly adjusted. This would account for my left vs right feeling different. If so I want to fix it before the first improper wear starts. Thanks so much in advance for any help.
P.S This is the smoothest drive train I've ever owned and can't wait till its broken it a bit.
cheers steve d

backroadfan · February 2003

I am not sure about the relationship between the side airbags and the style of sunvisor but I can add some info about the sunvisor extensions. We just took delivery of an Sport model without side airbags and it is equipped with sunvisors that slide along the mounting bracket to provide better coverage of the side window (there is no extension built into the visor). There is also a secondary visor that flips down in front when the main visor is rotated to the side. They are lighted vanity mirrors on driver's and passenger's side.

We test drove several Sports without side airbags that had a different design for the visors. There was a plastic panel that extended from the end of the visor to help it cover the side window but this one did not have the lighted mirror.

The owner's manual for our truck shows pictures of both styles with instructions on how to use them. From what I can see they both get the job done.

backroadfan · February 2003

This is an old topic but I thought it worth mentioning again since a post from our Host months ago saved me some grief this weekend.

Apparently new vehicles are transported with the tires at elevated pressures so I ask our sales person to please have them checked before we drove off on a 300 mile trip home with the new truck. As we began driving, I thought the ride was a bit harsh and the steering overly loose but it took me 30 miles to decide to stop and check. All 4 tires were at 45 psi. We were in rain and Washington DC Beltway traffic those 1st 30 miles so I am fortunate not to have had an emergency stopping situation.

I hope this may help someone else someday.

backroadfan · February 2003

I just took delivery of a Galactic Gray 4Runner and have discovered some discolored areas of paint under the clear-coat on the hood. I have seen the comments about some problems with the Titanium color and wondered if this may be a similar problem. On my truck there are several 8 inch long streaks 2 inches wide near the front of the hood in about 5 place. It is a subtle color shift but very visible in the right lighting. It is definately under the top coating and not a surface defect.

Any experts here on possible solutions before I get the dealer back on the phone (300 miles away) ? Maybe I can get an SR5 hood without the "scoop" for my Sport.

knockoff · February 2003

Hey educate me... what is an interference engine?

peter78 · February 2003

What is a interference engine? OK, I'll try. Pistons move up and down and valves either intake or exhaust move inside the cylinder. When the piston is on the down stroke some valves open and when the piston is on the up stroke the valves are closed. Sometimes, in order to get more power, the valves open below the line of the up powerstoke of the piston. In other words they occupy the same space. That is not usually a problem because the timing belt or chain makes the pistons move at a separate time than the valves.

Now, if the timing belt or chain breaks, the valves spin to a stop, but the piston keep moving. Some valves will stop at the closed position while some will stop in the open position. The piston that keep moving will hit the open valves, ouch.

A co-worker had a Honda CRX and broke his timing belt. It had a interference engine, as most Honda's do, and the valves got bent. It was cheaper for him to buy a re-built engine than to get the valves re-built.

A non-interference means the valves and pistons won't interfere with each other and if the timing belt or chain breaks, no ouch. Having said all this, I have no idea if the 4.0 V6 or V8 4.7 is a interference or non-interference engine. How did I do in my explanation? : )

swalis · February 2003

Bought a 2003 4Runner Sport Edition on Jan 4 with delivery taken on the 11th. Dealer's finance department offered a $0 deductible - 6 yr/100K miles extended warranty for $1148 and I accepted. It includes a rental car and towing coverages. I assumed that this was a Toyota warranty and really didn't think twice until I saw the postings that began at #4542. The followup postings and www.toyota.com speak to a "Platinum" warranty offered by Toyota, but nothing on my paperwork says anything like that. In fact, nothing on the pre-printed part of the form even says anything about Toyota. It appears the warranty is administered by LCA (Landcar Agency) that has a website address at www.landcar.com.

After seeing this, I called the dealer's finance person and so far have had no returned call (my guess is that the dealer has my money so why worry about service???).

Anyway, here are a few questions:
1. Did I get taken and purchase an "after market" warranty from a company that nobody's ever heard of before and may not be around if/when I have a claim?
2. Any suggestions on how to cancel the original contract and buy a genuine Toyota warranty?

Hoping to stay calm,
swalis

jcat707 · February 2003

I'm looking to buy a SUV and I would like to see what the monthly payments might look like. If any of you all could share your monthly payments, it would be greatly appreciated.

peter78 · February 2003

I hate buying cars. I think you brought out another reason for hating that process.

I would go to the manager of the dealership and tell him or her your displeasure of not getting a Toyota warranty. I would think that would be a 50-50 shot of correcting your problem. If not I would then contact Toyota US and tell them your problem. I am sure they would not be happy at dealers selling a non-Toyota warranty. That might get things rolling.

Having said all that, dealers can be a pain in the butt and are slow to change their practices.

vodgut · February 2003

are going to be based on a lot of things. Your down payment, the purchase price of the car, the value of any trade in you have, the APR of your loan, and the term of the loan. Once you have those numbers, you can find out what your monthly payment is, and also adjust some of the numbers to try and get the payments you want. You'll end up with a better deal if you figure out these numbers first, and what you can afford, rather than letting the dealer do it for you.

I imagine you know how much you can put down, and you can find out about how much your trade in is worth (if you have one) through Edmunds or any other car pricing site.

At that point, you need to shop for the best total purchase price on the car. You also need to shop for the best APR loan. You can test different loan terms to see what kind of monthly payments you come out with. I believe Edmunds and other sites also have a financing calculator on their site. Start there, start putting in some numbers that approximate the cost of the car you're buying, and the other numbers, and see what you come up with. Everyone's situation is different, so getting monthly payments from other owners probably won't be indicative of your situation.

0311 · February 2003

I'D LIKE TO HERE ANY PROS OR CONS ON DIFFERENCES!

tidester · February 2003

This might help!

tidester, host

rentschl · February 2003

v8
--
better for towing (lots of torque and transmission cooler)
Better 0-60 (7.4 s versus 8.8 s approximately from the web)
5 speed tranny
proven engine (been around for 3 years or so)
No 2WD mode

v6
--
Better gas mileage
Unproven track record (but might be just fine)
Higher tech. (VVTi, Aluminum block, ULEV)
Costs $780 less than v8 version
2WD mode

kjack100 · February 2003

Depending on your state, you should have a 30 to 60 day right of recission on your extended warranty purchase less a $50 or so administrative fee. Read the fine print on your contract.

fishingguy · February 2003

Two questions... Has anyone seen vehicles with the limited appearance pkg. There is an "appearance pkg" option on Toyota's web site. I am not clear if this is it. Also, has anyone figured out the best way to get xm satellite radio on a new 4runner, like some sort of aftermarket dealer option. The obvious option is simply to replace the factory radio (as much as this seems wasteful). I read a press release of SE Toyota Distributor offering this on some vehicles but was not sure if this meant anything. Thanks.

jhk_db · February 2003

I am interested in getting the 4Runner Limited (V8, 4x4, Option package #1) in May when my current lease ends. I was wondering if any of you had any recommendations as to a dealer in the Northern NJ/NYC-metro area. (Is there a long wait list for the 4Runner?) Also, I would be looking to lease the 4Runner for 39 mos (12K miles per year) and was wondering what I might expect to pay. Any thoughts you had would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

stever · February 2003

Jhk_db, try our Basic Lease Calculator.

Steve, Host

vodgut · February 2003

So the V6 is ULEV? Is the V8 LEV?

rustyrujo1 · February 2003

Messages

I was curious if anybody else is having this problem.The chirping in the front end (the dealer thinks it the shocks) happens when I hit a speed bump going 5 or more miles per hour.They happen to have a speed bump in front of their service center and we had 5 or 6 people listen to it with nobody knowing what to do.Then they went and got a new 03 4Runner off the lot and went over the same speed bump with the same chirping results.So far there isn't anything from Toyota to fix this problem.

Any help sure would be appreciated

Thank You-Rusty

intmed99 · February 2003

rentschl · February 2003

>
>So the V6 is ULEV? Is the V8 LEV?
>

That's what the literature shows that I have seen.

-Eric

pschreck · February 2003

is ULEV. Isn't it the same engine?

mrwhipple · February 2003

So far, these are the colors it's available in:

Titanium with either stone or taupe cloth

Galactic Gray with either stone or taupe cloth

Black with either stone or taupe cloth

Dorado Gold with taupe cloth

Stratosphere Mica with either stone or taupe cloth

fishingguy · February 2003

I have checked with 2 dealers in Atl and neither knew of appearance pkg. 1) Does package only paint fenders or add limited style fenders? 2) Have you seen any SR5's with this option 3) Do you have an option code? My guess is I probably just need to sit tight for 4 more weeks or so.

cliffy1 · February 2003

The price you paid is not that bad... if it were a genuine Toyota plan. The dealer must cancel the warranty if you request it. The worst case is that you get charged for a month worth of use. That would be roughly $17.

Now, as to finding a dealership to sell a Toyota warranty, you might try e-mailing different dealerships. Any dealer that offers Toyota plans can sell it to you. If you look around, perhaps even in this topic, you will find dealers who can assist you. There are also web sites run be dealers that offer them as well.

davindra · February 2003

The appearance package deals mostly with the plastic lower body panels which make up about half of the exterior. On my white SR5 w/o the package the lower panels are grey. It looks raw and ready for the offroad rather than the refined look I saw on the lot. Some nerf bars and a Yakima roof rack and I'll fit in with the sports crowd. Not exactly the look I was after but it does have a certain charm. It is a huge difference. Make sure you see one w/o the package before you order one like I did.

passthegravy · February 2003

mrwhipple, I believe those are the only colors the AP will be available in. Dianne at Carson Toyota says that not AP will be available for white, red and green 4Runners.

steffen06 · February 2003

What accessories should come with the towing pkg on a 2003 4runner? I have the connector for brakes, but don't have a connector to hook up a trailer without brakes. I had a Ford F150 before the 4Runner and it came with a plug that connect by the receiver hitch - it was for turn signals and brake lights. Should this type of connector been included with my 4Runner?

larryjordan56 · February 2003

I purchased a new 2003 4Runner Sport 4wd from Toyota of Roswell on November, 2002. The bloom soon wore off when the problems multiplied. After 4K miles this is a partial list of what is wrong...exhaust gas enters into the passenger compartment, the truck vibrates when the sunroof is opened, the gas mileage is 10 in the city and 11-12 in the highway, both door panels vibrate and rattle, the hatch rattles, the center rear console rattles, HAC does not work, the transmission does not shift properly when cold, etc. Does this sound like Toyota quality? The worst part is that I paid an extra $700 for Toyoguard but I cannot even get a loaner vechicle if I leave the car in for service. Toyota corporate basically told be to too bad but the the real indignation came when I spoke with the sales manager from Toyota of Roswell (in Atlanta, GA). He basically told me that I he did not care if I purchased the truck at his dealership - I would not get a loaner even though the window sticker says that a loaner would be provided in the event of any "warranty work".

Listen up folks - the truck is crap. I traded a 2002 Trailblazer which was much better in terms of quality and dealer service.

mrwhipple · February 2003

You must have a lemon.

mrwhipple · February 2003

· Color-Keyed overfenders
· Color-Keyed Front and rear bumpers
· Color-keyed cladding
· Color-keyed REAR License plate garnish
· Fog Lamps

I was told they should start showing up at dealers later this month at the earliest.

The colors stated earlier above are the only exterior color models it's available in for the SR5.

fishingguy · February 2003

mr whipple or anyone, will the SR5 appearance pkg simply be color keyed fenders that are the existing SR5 style or color keyed fenders that are the Limited style. I am not sure anyone knows the answer to this yet as a dealer called SE Distributor on my behalf yesterday. Nonetheless this is a make or break question for me and anyone that can provide the answer will be my friend for life. FWIW if Toyota simply color keys the existing fender they are not very smart.

fishingguy · February 2003

I am sorry. Looks like you need to pursue the GA Lemon Law process. +$30k is too much money for what you are talking about. This is the first Toyota lemon I have heard of. My question since I am still considering the vehicle (remember the Explorer and Trailblazer chats contain orchards of lemons), is did you test drive the car pretty hard before you wrote the check and notice anything. Sometimes you can only realized these things in retrospect. I only ask for my own benefit as I have always felt I could detect lemons in test drives but wanted to get your experience.

Toyota 4Runner

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