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Maybe I missed the inside information that you obviously have. Could you let me know where those good quantities are going to be next week?
So I can know it!
I agree with you in general -- if dealers could sell 4-cylinder models, they would. You can't sell what you don't have or don't know. You could have stated that without the hint of attitude, but that's just my two cents.
One could argue that every dealer should know what's going to hit their lots in the coming weeks. That too opens a can of worms. If you start to "pre-sell," you're taking the risk that the vehicles will arrive when you think they will. If they don't, you've got angry customers.
If you don't pre-sell, customers think you either 1) don't know anything; or 2) are intentionally not telling. Again, angry customers.
It's a tough situation for everyone. I'm not in the auto business, but I'm facing a similar issue in my own line of work (and I'm seeing it from the "dealer" perspective).
By the way: in my area, I'm having the opposite problem locating a Venza V6. The only ones available are basic cloth-seat models -- lots of them, in all different colors. All the ones with the Premium Package have been sold, including the distributor's next allocation.
Tell me about the 6 speed auto. Is it a 5 speed plus OD? In 1956 I owned a 3 speed stick with OD ... In each gear you could engage the OD, so, there were 6 ratios, but it was not a true 6 speed.
Anyone have more information about the downshift hesitation?
With the I4 only the "top" gear is likely to be an actual OD range.
The 2010 RX350 includes the most current firmware "fix"(***) for the 1-2 second downshift delay/hesitation so my guess would be that this problem will remain with Toyota and Lexus for a few more years.
*** Watching the rate at which the gas pedal is released to determine the driver's future intent, IMMEDIATE future intent.
Looking at tirerack.com, the Michelins appear to be much higher rated than the Goodyear. There's also a huge price difference between the Goodyears and the Michelins.
So...if the Venza I'm looking at has Goodyears on, I'm planning to ask the dealer if he'd be willing to swap them. But is there really that big of a difference between the two brands?
I'll insist on Michelins -- hopefully if the one I want has Goodyears on them, I can convince the dealer to swap them for me.
I did a quick Google search of the Venza's tire size (245/50R20) and it looks like it's a pretty popular tire size. The Dodge Nitro, Mazda CX-9, Ford Edge, Lincoln MKX all seem to use that particular 20 inch tire size.
Sometimes an OEM will work with tire suppliers to develop a specific size with specific characteristics for a particular vehicle (Mazda's original Miata was famous for this, and most Porsches have a specific tire designed for that particular model, referenced with a P in the model number (but not the size, most cars have P referenced in the the width).
When Chrysler launched the minivan, it used an awkward size as well, it was like a 195/75R15 or 205/70R15, both were pretty hard to find (the GY Invicta GL was about it) but now that is a very common size for passenger cars. It just takes a little while to proliferate the market. Of course, if the market isn't big enough for the tire manufacturers, then it will stay hard to find.
Any measurement in driver seat height difference vs HL, CRV or RAV4 ?
Any measurement in driver seat height difference vs HL, CRV or RAV4 ?
Re: Some personal views on the Venza [qs933]When I test drove the Venza, what struck me was not so much the seat height, but the expanse of the dash area compared to a truck-based SUV like my 4Runner. The large dash and small side windows made me feel like I was sitting lower than I actually was.
Earlier in this thread, there were actual measurements of a Venza's seating height and my 4Runner. I believe the seating height (at both the highest and lowest positions) of the Venza was roughly 5 inches lower than the 4Runner. If anyone has access to a Highlander and an RX, that would probably be a better comparison.
Looking at the dimensions of the Venza and the 2010 RX, the Venza is 3 inches shorter, has 0.8 inch higher ground clearance, and is about 1 inch longer and wider.
My 4Runner is a 2005 Sport Edition RWD with a manual seat (not power). The 4WD and models with a power seat may be slightly different, though I doubt it's significant.
Unfortunately, I don't have easy access to a Highlander, CRV, or RAV4 for comparison. I would guess that the Highlander is somewhere in between the 4Runner and Venza, but that's just a guess.
This business of an allocation is ridiculous. With Toyota announcing lay-offs, and reducing shifts, I cannot believe they would not process an order irregardless of a dealers allocation.
If these options are not possible, I may just wait for the Honda crossover, or buy something else.
Congress cut the incentive to buy now.
The new Venza and 2010 RX350 F/awd systems make use of an entirely different design, very much like that used for the past 3-4 years by Ford in the Escape and Mariner and now Mazda in the CX-7. This "new" system remains primarily FWD but with the ability to shift up to 50% of engine torque to the rear when/if conditions warrant.
I fully expect that the next models of the HL and Sienna will be adopting this "new" system.
And if you decide to wait for the Honda, you'll probably run into the same problem. I was in the market for the new 2008 Accord coupe in late 2007. Problem was, each dealer only had one or two and those did not have the options or colors I wanted. I would have had to wait more than 6 months for the supply to build up enough so that there were a few choices available.
Can you give me your sources of information on the current(2008/2009) Highlander AWD system, in particular where you say that it relies only on traction control for power distribution? I'd like to research this for myself. Thanks!
Too numerous to mention...
Factory repair/shop manuals for the '00 and '01 RX300 which uses the very same F/awd system as the HL and Sienna with the exception that the RX300 series included a VC, Viscous Clutch" to partially (think rubber band windup) lock the otherwise fully open center differential.
Other than the internet my primary research resource at the moment is techinfo.toyota.com
HL and Sienna F/awd systems had three fully open differential, front, center, and rear. As long as all wheel/tires have roughly equal traction engine torque distribution will be 25/25/25/25. The instant any one wheel loses traction the engine torque will be limited by the level of traction of "that" wheel. TC will quickly detect the wheelspin/slip and INSTANTLY dethrottle the engine while simultaneously moderately braking the slipping wheel(s) in order to sustain engine torque at a high enough level to drive the wheels with traction remaining.
There are numerous instances wherein TC is not an acceptable solution so the newer vehilces have the ability to turn TC off.
In wintertime adverse roadbed conditions the simplist and BEST way to assure roughly equal traction all around, FULL AWD functionality, is to install tire chains on all four tires. Regretably Toyota and Lexus have made that an impossibility for the RX, HL, and Sienna due to the low clearance at the rear between the tire and suspension.
My '01 F/awd RX300 has 1.5" wheel spacers all around to remove that limitation.
Sure you might be able to get one-off options, but those options cost more than a discounted package. Even F/GM/C bundle things (moons/toons is a popular one, where the high end audio system is packaged with the sunroof, and the package is cheaper than the roof or the stereo by itself).
Having choices is a good thing though, you might look at the way options are packaged for competitive vehicles to see if they are a better match for your needs.
In addition to somewhat lower cost the main benefit of these long repetitive runs is lower defect rates. This is a prime theorem in Statistical Process Control. Get long runs of the same product and keep screwing down the tolerances tighter and tighter and tighter. DON'T stop the line if at all possible.
That being said with the vehicle being made in KY it should be possible at some time in the future to special order a Venza with leather, Navi but no Sunroof and no RES. However this is key.......make friends with a reputable dealer who will work with you.
A walkin wanting a special order likely will not happen. OTOH with today's economic climate stores might bend over backward.
The Venza at full production, not this year, will be about 15-18% of Camry production.
That's interesting, though, about the the differences between the Venza's AWD and Highlander's AWD.
What's funny is that BMW is trying to pull a Toyota with its "BMW has once again defined a brand-new vehicle segment" marketing message.
I too am looking to order a Venza - although I really want the 4 cyl version with my choice of options.
I have not seen or heard from any dealer in the Seattle area that knows anything about when the 4 cyls might arrive - So I contacted Toyota directly - and got this nice response:
"Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We appreciate the opportunity to respond to your inquiry.
We do apologize for any confusion in determining the release date for the 2009 Toyota Venza 4 Cyl. We do expect the Venza 4 Cyl to be available this February. The Venza 4Cyl will offer the same options and features listed on the V6 model.
Vehicle allocation is based on the geographical area in which they are marketed. Toyota dealerships and distributors are prepared to take your request and make every attempt to obtain the desired vehicle.
If the dealership is unable to locate the vehicle of choice, they may submit a preference request for your desired vehicle. This preference request does not guarantee you will receive the vehicle with the exact options requested, and may create an extended wait-time.
Toyota Customer Experience"
Looks like we might be able to get our choice of options if we are willing to wait!!
I'll wait.
The 2.7L models are due to arrive in many locations next week as scheduled. Geography, weather and size of the dealership may play a role in who sees one first.
Seriously, I was completely underwhelmed. Small cargo bay, unremarkable controls, Camry/Avalon to the max. The dealership had a Highlander Hybrid parked next to the Venza. I went back and forth a few times. Then I went home and used Edmunds new car 'comparison' tool and looked at the Venza vs. Highlander vs. Pilot vs. CR-V. Hmmmmm. My prediction: when the newness wears off (which is about 4-6 months at this time in economic history) it will become clear that Toyota has stolen a lot of sales from the Highlander. If Honda decides to import its Accord wagon, then we'll have a horse race. For now, especially with the tarted up V-6 models in the showroom, this is NOT a good nor educated purchase.
Someone beat them to it. :P
BMW 5 Series GT: An AMC Eagle for the 21st Century
Now back to your regularly scheduled Venza programming.
I'm curious: What conclusions were you able to make from that comparison? Neither the Pilot nor the CR-V are apples-to-apples comparisons to the Venza, which is a good reason for Honda to look at introducing a version of the Accord wagon in the US.
O the Venza looks better and different....but its not very important to me.
This is why the Venza and soon the others will exist. None of the foregoing vehicles meets all the preferences and needs of the entire population. It's a subsegment of 'utility' vehicle that has attraction for a certain part of the population. None of these are 'good' or 'bad'. They just 'fit' or 'don't fit'.
What the smart marketers have done is provide a series of choices for the huge number of the public which soon will be dropping off their SUVs and luxo-trucks in favor of smaller vehicles with better fuel economy but still some utility. These vehicles are a 'net' to capture as many of these defectors from the BOF-type vehicles. If these new options didn't exist the buyers would go elsewhere. That's a mortal sin in marketing.
For you, maybe. For me, there are several reasons to choose the Venza over the Highlander:
I like the ride-height of a CUV/SUV and the flexibility to occasionally haul something that would be difficult in a sedan.
I don't need a 3rd row of seats and the associated equipment that goes along with it (i.e. the rear air conditioner, which is optional, but can be found on most Limiteds)
Based on the configurations brought in by my distributor, the Venza (Premium Package #1 + JBL) was about $2K cheaper than the Highlander Limited (JBL + Rear AC + Power Rear Door + spoiler).
Venza leans more towards luxury (large wheels, standard dual-zone AC, optional HIDs, JBL Synthesis, soft-touch dash) while sacrificing some utility. Highlander leans more towards the utilitarian (flexible 2nd row seat) and sacrifices some luxury (hard plastic dash surfaces, plain leather seats).
As for the comparison between the CR-V and the Venza, I think it's fair to assume that some people will cross-shop between the two given the pricing overlap (high-end CR-V to 4-cyl Venza). I like the CR-V and it should be a little more nimble given that it's almost a foot shorter in length than the Venza.
The main reasons I didn't seriously consider it was 1) Like the Highlander (and Pilot), Honda leaned more towards utility rather than luxury; and 2) the 4-cylinder needs more power. From a fuel economy perspective, the CR-V 2WD is rated at a combined 23 MPG. The Venza V6 2WD is rated at a combined 22 MPG.
...Honda generally trumps Toyota in terms of innovative interior features
What kind of features?
"My car" is a 4 Cyl Toyota 4X4 XtraCab P/U - I don't need 'utility' - I have that.
We need (want) a car for the family (wife, one kid and a dog!!). The 94' Volvo turbo wagon is nickel and dimen' us to death (although continues to be a scream to drive) and I (we) refuse to drive a SUV OR Minivan (philosophically anyway).
The Venza fits my family to a T. I think we must be the demographic Toyota designed it for.
Ride height - Ingress/Egress - Mostly 'car like' handling - Decent Style factor - Semi-lux features - and best of all, MPG numbers (4cyl) that match my buddies wife's Mazda 3 hatchback. We are deciding the color as I write this!!
I am waiting (a little LESS patiently) to drive the 2.7 l4 and if it has adequate oomph we will be trying to order our dream machine ASAP...
BTW, we are leaning RED!!
Any new information as to ship date on the 4 cyl??? I saw an earlier post suggesting THIS week... Seattle Metro area included??
Every car buyer and owner has different reasons for selectiing what they do. From your post I seem to sense a "put-down" for persons favoring the Venza.
Personally, I like the vehicle. I do not consider it ,to any degree, in the same class with a CR-V. When I first saw the car, it reminded me of the Lexus RX-350 (profile), which my wife would love to have, and I have been holding back. We own a 2001 HL and it has been a near perfect vehicle, to the extent that I may just continue with it for several more years. For my needs, both the Pilot and the new HL have become too large, the CR-V too small.
I think Toyota has a "winner" in the Venza, and they have a "winner" attitude, meaning, they are going to need to "deal" to sell cars in this economy. Congress removed the incentive to buy now, so unless you need a car, why buy now? My prediction is we are going to face run-away inflation ..... it is hard to know what to do. If you live on a fixed income as many of us do, your net worth is going to suffer a "hit" in the future. Many of us will be priced out of the new car market.
I learned a long time ago ... do not put-down a persons reasons for favoring one car or another. That is why there are so many varieties available.
The only two things I didn't like were the prices and the dealer. With all the ridiculous add-ons, this thing was about 10K more than a top of the line, fully stocked Camry hybrid. Second, the dealer did this weird thing where he said that they would only sell it for sticker price unless we bought it that day in which case he would get us a deal but we'd be paying full sticker for it. Guy didn't make an ounce of sense.
One question:
1. Does anyone think it's likely that Toyota would offer incentives for the Venza in the next six months. If not, the current incentives on the Camry might be too much to pass up (Loaded XLE for 23.8K on edmunds)
My G.Caravan lease contract expired in july and my first choice is the Sienna.
The Venza is really nice and well equipped but once again, practicality, room, and comfort is in favor of the minivan, its the best bang for the buck I think.