Otherwise taxpayers wind up paying for increased unemployment and food stamp benefits.
Why do you assume that they shouldn't support themselves, getting themselves another job or strating a business? Aren't these auto-workers supposedly skilled?
And no I refuse to support being a sheep, being forced to pay for others mistakes, laziness, or stupidity.
Also Steve - what happens after this artificial increase in vehicles expires? Say the automakers sell an extra 1 million vehicles under this program in 2010, and someday the program expires; did you steal future sales? So instead of the car market being 11M, 11.5M, 12M in the next 3 years, we sell the same number of vehicles but made annual sales 13M, 10.5, 11M.
And one more thing - if you're driving around in a vehicle worth <$1,000, I really have to question if you can afford the taxes, insurance and payments on a new vehicle.
Maybe the scam in the 'hoods will be - take the 1985 pickup in for a trade of $250, get a $4500 voucher for a Chevy Aveo, take it for a week, leave the keys in it, and have it "stolen", collect the full-value insurance, and the thief gets the value of reselling or chopping the vehicle.
Well, if you want to buy my '99 minivan that has 132,000 miles on it for $4,500, let's talk. :-)
I'll be lucky to get $1,000 on a trade-in and not much more than that if I craigslist it.
I guess I assume that the autoworkers won't hop to another job anytime soon since I know of about a dozen people laid off here who are highly skilled but have yet to find jobs, going on 7 months now.
And some of us are over 55 (including autoworkers), and skilled jobs for our age group are supposedly harder to come by since we're a bunch of know-it-alls who won't put up with stupid bosses and donut shop wages.
The clunker program is set to expire in one year I think. Right now there's about 4 million "serious" buyers that are waiting on something to push them into a new car. The push could be a rise in consumer confidence or it could be an incentive like the clunker program. (The 4 million number is from Edmunds - heard it on the weekly Wednesday night chat last night).
I agree with you. I am one of those people just waiting for that extra incentive to purchase a new car. Do you know when this may be implemented? Thanks
No idea - the Senate will be reviewing the House version and then they'll probably compromise on the final bill and, assuming it passes, get to the President for signature at that point.
My guess is that they'll try to time it with GM coming out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy or at least by the usual Congressional recess in August. So ... maybe 2 months, maybe more? I suppose it could happen faster but Congress doesn't tend to move as fast as bankruptcy judges do.
I suspect you'll have to pay income taxes on the amount of the voucher too.
I suspect you'll have to pay income taxes on the amount of the voucher too.
I think that's inaccurate. The House version (H.R. 2751) reads:
(1) FOR FEDERAL AND STATE PROGRAMS- A voucher under this Act or any payment made for such a voucher pursuant to subsection (a)(3) shall not be considered income and shall not be considered as a resource for the month of receipt and the following 12 months, for purposes of determining the eligibility of the recipient (or the recipient’s spouse or other family or household members) for benefits or assistance, or the amount or extent of benefits or assistance, under any Federal or State program.
The same language appears verbatim in S. 1135, the Senate version sponsored by Sen. Stabenow of Michigan.
Nothing ... may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from— (i) selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other than the engine block and drive train (unless the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts); or (ii) retaining the proceeds from such sale.
Not as I read the one version from the house. If one wants to trade their old Dodge truck from 1995, a clunker/beater, then that person would get $4500 toward any new midsized or small auto with a fuel economy 10 mpg greater than the Dodge.
If the truck is worth $4500 or more on the retail market than it would be dumb to trade it for a voucher unless, like a lot of people feel, the selling part is so onerous that they are willing to give up money in order not to have to deal with the hassles of selling it privately.
This is part of living in a complex society. You don't have to live here but if you choose to do so then 'others' will be using your money all the time. And you'll be using their money all the time.
You don't have a choice in this matter because it was decided already that the vehicle makers are going to get $4 Billion of our future earnings this year in order to help them through this horrible market. But this is brilliantly conceived to get as much bang for the buck by involving as many people and jobs as possible.
The programs being discussed have a 12 month sunset provision. Again this is simply a $4 Billion gift to the vehicle makers this year to help them get through the worst market in half a century. Nothing more.
It's intended to prop up the abysmally low sales figures of 2009 which are approaching 9 million unts or less.
All the other ancillary benefits are simply simply the result of good government at work.
And one more thing - if you're driving around in a vehicle worth less than $1,000, I really have to question if you can afford the taxes, insurance and payments on a new vehicle. Maybe the scam in the 'hoods will be - take the 1985 pickup in for a trade of $250, get a $4500 voucher for a Chevy Aveo, take it for a week, leave the keys in it, and have it "stolen", collect the full-value insurance, and the thief gets the value of reselling or chopping the vehicle.
Don't make assumptions. I resemble that statement of someone who drives a vehicle worth <$1000. Some people don't like car payments and really don't care what kind of vehicle gets them from point A to point B. BTW, I don't live in the 'hood and never have. I live in a nice suburban neighborhod in south central PA.
unless, like a lot of people feel, the selling part is so onerous that they are willing to give up money in order not to have to deal with the hassles of selling it privately.
I don't mind the inconvenience of selling on Craigslist. My truck is at the ragged edge of that $4500 value. The new Ford Ranger does not get that much better mileage and I would not even consider $3500 for the truck. If it can be traded for a diesel SUV, that meets all the criteria it may be a possibility. I would rather get a small diesel PU truck. That is not likely in the next year. Our lack of decent vehicle choices in this country is a constant source of frustration for me.
"A cash-for-clunkers program that would provide government vouchers to consumers to trade in their old cars faced an uncertain fate Thursday.
Lawmakers had attached the program to a must-pass bill to finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but talks on the broader legislation collapsed Thursday over unrelated issues.
The House bill, sponsored by Rep. Betty Sutton, D-Ohio, and aggressively pushed by U.S. auto makers, faced opposition from several senators who say it wouldn't go far enough to reduce car emissions of greenhouse gases.
The critics, including Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, contend that the House bill could provide vouchers toward the purchase of high-polluting Hummers and SUVs."
My only voucher qualifiers are my 4.3's and my 4x4, all of which I want to keep. I have a car that is EPA rated 19 mpg with 172k on it but has no 4th gear. I wonder if they would make exceptions for such a vehicle with a dealer's affadavit or something. If they had to rate it without 4th gear, it would score a 13 or 14 mpg.
This is the Federal Government you are talking about man. They cannot decide where to go to lunch without hearings. I would think the MPG rating should have been tied to the older EPA rules. Who knows what will happen. I also read that some want to tie it to the cap n trade CC legislation being pushed by the ultra left Libs. I think you are out of luck and would be best to just park it and use for storage. I'm kind of in a similar quandry. My 99 Ford Ranger was rated 19 Combined before 2008. The new EPA rules say it only gets 18 MPG. I got news for that bunch of EPA losers. This pig has never gotten better than 16 MPG. And has no power. Worthless V6 Ford FFV engine.
I drove my '70 Delta 88 till it was 18 yrs old and had 203k miles on it. It was my work horse and was most of my net worth the year I bought it with 100k miles on it. I finally put a 'for sale' sign on it out in front of my $190k house that I put 40% down on in '88.
Sen. Feinstein stonewalling? Not surprising. In the House last week it was Waxman. What is it about this California delegation that wants to so badly control how the rest of the nation operates? Now Ahhhhh-nold is considering legalizing...oops! Different topic. Sorry.
I live in a nice suburban neighborhod in south central PA. You have some real issues.....
Heck, just leave your car out on the street, and chances are a drunk driver will hit it! I swear, that area of PA is the only place I've ever seen a sign on the interstate that says "Be alert for drunk drivers!" :P
Just bustin' on ya a bit, dtownfb That's a really nice area, and every time I drive through it, I'll admit I get a little envious. It still has a bit of small-town charm to it, although it's definitely growing. I can't remember if I mentioned this before, but I got my '57 DeSoto from a little town called Pleasureville, just north of York. I think it was the Arsenal Road exit off I-83, near the Harley factory.
-Andre (who drove a $900 1979 NYer 5th Ave to work today, and has no intention of scrapping it anytime in the foreseeable future)
I understand in your case but from daily experience the vast vast majority of the vehicle-owing population hates the very idea of having to sell their vehicle on their own. For women who make up well over half of this population the percentage is probably close to 100% who won't make any effort to sell the vehicle at retail.
If I have a car that qualifies for the $3,500 cash, and the car has a dealer trade-in value of $1,500, will the car get a $5,000 ($3,500 + $1,500) cash value from the dealer towards a new car purchase?
Unfortunately, no. Under this plan it seems like you would have the choice of either taking the trade-in value or the the voucher, but not both. The dealer will not be able to re-sell the car, so its trade in value is worth very little (scrap value and some of the parts, potentially).
I resemble that statement of someone who drives a vehicle worth
You're few and far between. Because even if a car is in bad cosmetic shape - bad paint, dents, and ripped interior, if the tires, engine and trans. are all good the car's worth more than $1,000. If the car's bad mechanically then it isn't very good at getting you from Pt. A to Pt. B.
And I live in a nice area too, but within a radius of 100 miles, I can point out some cities that would love to have this Clunkers Plan. Right now they're favorite way to get drug-money is to stage accidents. I think they'd like some variety to trade-in their '85 Crown Vic, get an '09 Cobalt getting $4,500 off with the voucher, and let someone "steal" it; then collecting the insurance at replacement cost.
Funny, as I'm going 90 mph weaving in and out of traffic while laying on the horn and squealing the tires on Rte 611 above Willow Grove, PA, I spot a sign that says "Beware of Aggressive Drivers." What do they mean by that? :P
I am constantly amazed at the number of people who will readily take a loss of thousands of dollars for the 'convenience' of trading in a car--especially when they are upside down on the loan.
This may be because those who are upside down on loans repeatedly tend to be the very same people who yield to the temptation of accepting less money from the dealer than they could get through a private sale. I don't know this to be a fact, of course. It's just a guess to explain this phenomenon. I guess I distinguish between those who, for a variety of reasons, happen to be upside down once (it could happen to many of us) from those who are repeatedly upside down.
It's interesting. I've seen people throw away $5000 bucks rather than sell their car privately. Just like that. I guess they think that renting a car for a month is going to cost $5000???
Of course, some may be mislead by a "generous" trade in offer, not realizing that the price is being jacked on the other end.
And, to be fair, sometimes if a dealer really wants a car, he'll pay top dollar for it.
How does one go about privately selling a car that is not yet paid for? I don't know as I've alway paid off my cars before selling or trading them. If I do privately sell a car, it's often to somebody I know well and it has been a long time since I did it. I sold my 1985 Chrysler Fifth Avenue to my brother in 1993. Privately selling a car in Philadelphia to strangers is kind of risky. If you advertise it in the paper, you can draw all kinds of thugs and lowlifes to your house. "Nice ride, homes! I'll be takin' it from you!" as he holds a Glock sideways on you.
Back in the late 80/early 90's, PA used to advertise the cost of the moving violations on the major highways. If you were 20 mph over the speed limit, it would cost like $160. :sick:
Never heard of Pleasureville but found it on the map. And I have driven through there many times. Good memory! it's exactly where you remember it.
I live south of York. great place to raise a family, good schools, very low crime rate and housing is very affordable. Just don't expect to find a good meal after 9 pm. Wish there was more action like in a city but we get by.
Funny thing is i plan to buy a used car before the end of the month. My car does not qualify. Don't like the idea of the bill, but if were to pass and I qualified, I would have used it. I don;t like the idea of encouraging people to go further in debt esp. in the middle of a recession. Of course, you will have people who rather drive a nice car than pay their bills on time. i do think we will run through the 1 million vouchers pretty quick. There a lot of cash sitting out there from the folks who sold off their stock last year. Unfortunately, i don't think GM or Chrysler will benefit from this bill.
Back in the late 80/early 90's, PA used to advertise the cost of the moving violations on the major highways. If you were 20 mph over the speed limit, it would cost like $160.
Yep, I remember those signs. As I recall, something like 1-5 mph over got you a ticket for $89.50, and it went up from there. However, and I know this is a twisted way of looking at it, you actually got more for your money, the faster you went! I mean, $89.50 for 1-5 over, versus $159.50 or whatever for 20+ over! Of course, your insurance company might not take the same attitude. And go too fast, I imagine you get your license yanked.
So what kind of car are you thinking about getting? Are you getting rid of your Intrigue, or hanging onto it?
it shouldn't be surprising. In your everyday life, watch how people make decisions and handle stress. if somehow the situation is made easier, they'll take that option. This is why trading in is so popular and why some people are afraid to sell on their own. It's easier to trade in your car and in their mind, selling a car is stressful and not worth it. Like I said, just watch people sometime. You'll see this behavior many other things.
In Lemko's case, he has real safety concerns. For me, not so much. But I am cheap...I mean frugal so I want to maximize my money no matter what.
Privately selling a car in Philadelphia to strangers is kind of risky. If you advertise it in the paper, you can draw all kinds of thugs and lowlifes to your house.
Maybe it would be safer in Bucks County than in Philly.
Have sold many vehicles, some might say inappropriately clunkers, in private sale through the years. Wife and I have started doing trade-ins mostly since late 90's to avoid possiblity of nasty people. Exception has been when I was reluctant to part with some favorites in a collection (not quite as large as Andre) and contractor doing work spotted an old Honda in barn once, and another spotted old Nissan another time and asked to test drive and then each bought.
To make this a viable option, the car being traded in would have to be worth less than $3500 or $4500. Many people who have a car like that have already made the decision that they can't afford a new car.
"Nice ride, homes! I'll be takin' it from you!" as he holds a Glock sideways on you.
How is trading to a dealer much different. My last try at trading to a dealer would have cost me $7000. Of course they would have been happy with that deal. I say anyone that trades rather than sell private is lazy. Unless the car is worn out and worth nothing to start with. Now that will have changed. The dealer is hoping to sell you a new car and keep as much of that $4500 as he can. As always, BUYER BEWARE...
Replacing the 2000 Intrigue. it has 178k miles and has served me well. Runs Ok but things are starting to go, like the AC, rear window, loose trim work, struts, etc. Nickle and dimes stuff but will add up to more than the car is worth. We can easily handle a car payment
First choices are a 2-3 year old Accord or Camry. But I am keeping an open mind.
I say anyone that trades rather than sell private is lazy.
Not necessarily. I think that single women are not lazy. If they are divorced/widowed/otherwise, they just do not want to deal with strangers coming to their house to look at a car. This is even with those cases were the woman would have her brother, neighbor man, man friend, whatever, present when the prospective buyer/looker shows up.
Then there is the transaction. Only cash is safe to receive. Can't really trust any kind of check. Have to then get cash to bank for deposit.
For some people, it's clearly not possible to sell a car privately that's not fully paid for, so your point is well taken. Those that have other sources of cash, such as a home equity line of credit or a relative who's willing to help with a bridge loan, could pay off the old car, then buy the new/newer one. People in this second category would most likely be those that are upside down for the first time, but don't make a habit of rolling their old loan into a new, larger one, just to drive newer cars than they can afford.
Like you, I don't like debt, so it's not something I would even try.
The only Ford I've ever owned is a '98 3.8L Mustang that I gave my son at 16. It has 90 less HP than my GM 3.8L. Unfortunately, the GM had enough power to tear up a sheet metal splined shaft that enables the 3rd to 4th upshift. The Mustang came with a bad O2 sensor that I failed at swapping out. I couldn't break the old one loose. It loses 2 mpg hwy because of the bad sensor (29 vs 31) so I don't see it as a big deal. The Ford has an OD lockout button on the shifter that also increases low gear performance. The car lopes along on interstate at very low revs in 4th. Especially compared to the now 3 speed Riv 3.8. I mostly drive in a 55 zone on the interstate and revs can fall under 1500 in the Mustang. The Riv runs 2400 revs in same zone. The Sonoma 4.3 runs 1750 rpm at 60.
The Ford has a worn front strut on the Driver's side so I have to rotate the tires often. It will need to be fixed some day. That could be the first repair other than the battery and the paint work from an accident.
Nearly everybody herein is male I'd guess. We have little or no experience from the female pov. Next time one of us intends to sell a used vehicle at retail run this one up the flagpole..'Hey hon, there's this guy that called on the phone who wants to look at your car. How 'bout runnin' down to the 7-11 to meet him and show it to him, OK? He said that he and his mechanic would be there about 10:30 tonight.'
Funny, as I'm going 90 mph weaving in and out of traffic while laying on the horn and squealing the tires on Rte 611 above Willow Grove, PA, I spot a sign that says "Beware of Aggressive Drivers." What do they mean by that?
That was YOU???
I remember those speeding signs in PA. I used to call them Price Line for Speeding Tickets! Pick a price you think you can afford and set your cruise.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I bet there are very few "takers" of this program.
Just my semi-educated guess.
Most people driving the cars which qualify for the "junking" either: A) need that car/truck, or are not interested in buying a new car, or C) cannot afford a new car.
All they have to do is reduce the restrictions on ownership period and that would spur things a lot better. Folks sitting on junk cars will get some cash from the people that can afford to buy a new car. I would pay $500-$1,000 (actually I did) for a clunker and then get a $4,500 certificate towards a new vehicle. Somebody gets money in their pocket for a vehicle that's probably just wasting away and a new car gets sold. Probably no green effect, but that really seems to be an afterthought anyway. Make a 25mpg minimum qualifier for the new car and then it would probably be somewhat green. But there are a bunch of trucks and suv's clogging up the dealers lots....
Saw that a healthy year for just Elkhart County in Indiana is selling 390,000 RV's. Everyone's laid off since sales fell into the 250,000 range this year. One County's contribution to 7 mpg elimination is 140,000 units per year. That could be a bigger impact than all hybrids combined.
Not all RVs get 7 MPG. I bought an RV built in Elkhart that got 25 MPG. That is better than a Chevy Malibu V6 or any Minivan in the USA. I kept it a year and sold it. We just did not like camping that much. I wish the smaller Sequoia could get close to what the MB Sprinter got. It might behoove the laid off auto workers to get a used RV. Beats sleeping in a tent or a park bench.
I guess you could trade a clunker in on a Dodge Sprinter that gets better mileage. Help out the auto workers in Charleston that build them.
I plan to take advantage of this program if my car is eligible: '94 Acura Legend GS with about 170K miles. It's a solid car and I drive it to work daily.
TMV is about $1.3K (trade-in) and $2K (private sale).
If not eligible, I'll just keep driving it, but the repairs are expensive.
"Passenger car or minivan: The old vehicle must get 18 mpg or less city/highway combined. New passenger cars or minivans with mileage of at least 22 mpg are eligible for vouchers. If the mileage of the new car is at least 4 mpg higher than the old vehicle, the voucher will be worth $3,500. If the mileage of the new car is at least 10 mpg higher than the old vehicle, the voucher will be worth $4,500."
This could change. There's a story from the Detroit News that says it's a done deal based mostly on the House version and that it'll be finalized next week, or at least an initial one billion dollar's worth of the program. The other three billion in expected costs would be shunted to the next fiscal year. More at Green Car Advisor.
Unless the bill changes, it appears that you are out of luck. Fueleconomy.gov says that your Legend gets 19 mpg combined.
Yeah, I see what you mean, but I see four models there. If yours is the Acura Legend 6 cyl, 3.2 L, Automatic 4-spd, (PRE-CAT) (FFS), Premium, then that comes in at 18 mpg and should qualify from the way I read the FAQ.
Problem is I want to trade in the 19 mpg one. Hate to miss by 1 mpg.
Switch the VIN plates, maybe? Anyway, I see your three 17's and raise you a 13! My '85 Silverado is rated 12/15, 13 combined. I don't want to trade it though.
Comments
Why do you assume that they shouldn't support themselves, getting themselves another job or strating a business? Aren't these auto-workers supposedly skilled?
And no I refuse to support being a sheep, being forced to pay for others mistakes, laziness, or stupidity.
Also Steve - what happens after this artificial increase in vehicles expires? Say the automakers sell an extra 1 million vehicles under this program in 2010, and someday the program expires; did you steal future sales? So instead of the car market being 11M, 11.5M, 12M in the next 3 years, we sell the same number of vehicles but made annual sales 13M, 10.5, 11M.
And one more thing - if you're driving around in a vehicle worth <$1,000, I really have to question if you can afford the taxes, insurance and payments on a new vehicle.
Maybe the scam in the 'hoods will be - take the 1985 pickup in for a trade of $250, get a $4500 voucher for a Chevy Aveo, take it for a week, leave the keys in it, and have it "stolen", collect the full-value insurance, and the thief gets the value of reselling or chopping the vehicle.
Well, if you want to buy my '99 minivan that has 132,000 miles on it for $4,500, let's talk. :-)
I'll be lucky to get $1,000 on a trade-in and not much more than that if I craigslist it.
I guess I assume that the autoworkers won't hop to another job anytime soon since I know of about a dozen people laid off here who are highly skilled but have yet to find jobs, going on 7 months now.
And some of us are over 55 (including autoworkers), and skilled jobs for our age group are supposedly harder to come by since we're a bunch of know-it-alls who won't put up with stupid bosses and donut shop wages.
The clunker program is set to expire in one year I think. Right now there's about 4 million "serious" buyers that are waiting on something to push them into a new car. The push could be a rise in consumer confidence or it could be an incentive like the clunker program. (The 4 million number is from Edmunds - heard it on the weekly Wednesday night chat last night).
Thieves will always be with us.
I agree with you. I am one of those people just waiting for that extra incentive to purchase a new car. Do you know when this may be implemented?
Thanks
My guess is that they'll try to time it with GM coming out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy or at least by the usual Congressional recess in August. So ... maybe 2 months, maybe more? I suppose it could happen faster but Congress doesn't tend to move as fast as bankruptcy judges do.
I suspect you'll have to pay income taxes on the amount of the voucher too.
I suspect you'll have to pay income taxes on the amount of the voucher too.
I think that's inaccurate. The House version (H.R. 2751) reads:
(1) FOR FEDERAL AND STATE PROGRAMS- A voucher under this Act or any payment made for such a voucher pursuant to subsection (a)(3) shall not be considered income and shall not be considered as a resource for the month of receipt and the following 12 months, for purposes of determining the eligibility of the recipient (or the recipient’s spouse or other family or household members) for benefits or assistance, or the amount or extent of benefits or assistance, under any Federal or State program.
The same language appears verbatim in S. 1135, the Senate version sponsored by Sen. Stabenow of Michigan.
Here's the text, in PDF format
An interesting bit from the bill:
Nothing ... may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from—
(i) selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other than the engine block and drive train (unless the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts); or
(ii) retaining the proceeds from such sale.
If the truck is worth $4500 or more on the retail market than it would be dumb to trade it for a voucher unless, like a lot of people feel, the selling part is so onerous that they are willing to give up money in order not to have to deal with the hassles of selling it privately.
You don't have a choice in this matter because it was decided already that the vehicle makers are going to get $4 Billion of our future earnings this year in order to help them through this horrible market. But this is brilliantly conceived to get as much bang for the buck by involving as many people and jobs as possible.
It's intended to prop up the abysmally low sales figures of 2009 which are approaching 9 million unts or less.
All the other ancillary benefits are simply simply the result of good government at work.
Don't make assumptions. I resemble that statement of someone who drives a vehicle worth <$1000. Some people don't like car payments and really don't care what kind of vehicle gets them from point A to point B. BTW, I don't live in the 'hood and never have. I live in a nice suburban neighborhod in south central PA.
You have some real issues.....
I don't mind the inconvenience of selling on Craigslist. My truck is at the ragged edge of that $4500 value. The new Ford Ranger does not get that much better mileage and I would not even consider $3500 for the truck. If it can be traded for a diesel SUV, that meets all the criteria it may be a possibility. I would rather get a small diesel PU truck. That is not likely in the next year. Our lack of decent vehicle choices in this country is a constant source of frustration for me.
Lawmakers had attached the program to a must-pass bill to finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but talks on the broader legislation collapsed Thursday over unrelated issues.
The House bill, sponsored by Rep. Betty Sutton, D-Ohio, and aggressively pushed by U.S. auto makers, faced opposition from several senators who say it wouldn't go far enough to reduce car emissions of greenhouse gases.
The critics, including Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, contend that the House bill could provide vouchers toward the purchase of high-polluting Hummers and SUVs."
'Cash For Clunkers' Uncertain After Bill Stalls (Wall St. Journal)
Heck, just leave your car out on the street, and chances are a drunk driver will hit it! I swear, that area of PA is the only place I've ever seen a sign on the interstate that says "Be alert for drunk drivers!" :P
Just bustin' on ya a bit, dtownfb
-Andre
(who drove a $900 1979 NYer 5th Ave to work today, and has no intention of scrapping it anytime in the foreseeable future)
You're few and far between. Because even if a car is in bad cosmetic shape - bad paint, dents, and ripped interior, if the tires, engine and trans. are all good the car's worth more than $1,000. If the car's bad mechanically then it isn't very good at getting you from Pt. A to Pt. B.
And I live in a nice area too, but within a radius of 100 miles, I can point out some cities that would love to have this Clunkers Plan. Right now they're favorite way to get drug-money is to stage accidents. I think they'd like some variety to trade-in their '85 Crown Vic, get an '09 Cobalt getting $4,500 off with the voucher, and let someone "steal" it; then collecting the insurance at replacement cost.
Of course, some may be mislead by a "generous" trade in offer, not realizing that the price is being jacked on the other end.
And, to be fair, sometimes if a dealer really wants a car, he'll pay top dollar for it.
Never heard of Pleasureville but found it on the map. And I have driven through there many times. Good memory! it's exactly where you remember it.
I live south of York. great place to raise a family, good schools, very low crime rate and housing is very affordable. Just don't expect to find a good meal after 9 pm. Wish there was more action like in a city but we get by.
Funny thing is i plan to buy a used car before the end of the month. My car does not qualify. Don't like the idea of the bill, but if were to pass and I qualified, I would have used it. I don;t like the idea of encouraging people to go further in debt esp. in the middle of a recession. Of course, you will have people who rather drive a nice car than pay their bills on time. i do think we will run through the 1 million vouchers pretty quick. There a lot of cash sitting out there from the folks who sold off their stock last year. Unfortunately, i don't think GM or Chrysler will benefit from this bill.
Yep, I remember those signs. As I recall, something like 1-5 mph over got you a ticket for $89.50, and it went up from there. However, and I know this is a twisted way of looking at it, you actually got more for your money, the faster you went! I mean, $89.50 for 1-5 over, versus $159.50 or whatever for 20+ over! Of course, your insurance company might not take the same attitude. And go too fast, I imagine you get your license yanked.
So what kind of car are you thinking about getting? Are you getting rid of your Intrigue, or hanging onto it?
In Lemko's case, he has real safety concerns. For me, not so much. But I am cheap...I mean frugal so I want to maximize my money no matter what.
Maybe it would be safer in Bucks County than in Philly.
Have sold many vehicles, some might say inappropriately clunkers, in private sale through the years. Wife and I have started doing trade-ins mostly since late 90's to avoid possiblity of nasty people. Exception has been when I was reluctant to part with some favorites in a collection (not quite as large as Andre) and contractor doing work spotted an old Honda in barn once, and another spotted old Nissan another time and asked to test drive and then each bought.
How is trading to a dealer much different. My last try at trading to a dealer would have cost me $7000. Of course they would have been happy with that deal. I say anyone that trades rather than sell private is lazy. Unless the car is worn out and worth nothing to start with. Now that will have changed. The dealer is hoping to sell you a new car and keep as much of that $4500 as he can. As always, BUYER BEWARE...
First choices are a 2-3 year old Accord or Camry. But I am keeping an open mind.
Not necessarily. I think that single women are not lazy. If they are divorced/widowed/otherwise, they just do not want to deal with strangers coming to their house to look at a car. This is even with those cases were the woman would have her brother, neighbor man, man friend, whatever, present when the prospective buyer/looker shows up.
Then there is the transaction. Only cash is safe to receive. Can't really trust any kind of check. Have to then get cash to bank for deposit.
Like you, I don't like debt, so it's not something I would even try.
The Ford has a worn front strut on the Driver's side so I have to rotate the tires often. It will need to be fixed some day. That could be the first repair other than the battery and the paint work from an accident.
That was YOU???
I remember those speeding signs in PA. I used to call them Price Line for Speeding Tickets! Pick a price you think you can afford and set your cruise.
Just my semi-educated guess.
Most people driving the cars which qualify for the "junking" either:
A) need that car/truck, or
C) cannot afford a new car.
I guess you could trade a clunker in on a Dodge Sprinter that gets better mileage. Help out the auto workers in Charleston that build them.
TMV is about $1.3K (trade-in) and $2K (private sale).
If not eligible, I'll just keep driving it, but the repairs are expensive.
"Passenger car or minivan: The old vehicle must get 18 mpg or less city/highway combined. New passenger cars or minivans with mileage of at least 22 mpg are eligible for vouchers. If the mileage of the new car is at least 4 mpg higher than the old vehicle, the voucher will be worth $3,500. If the mileage of the new car is at least 10 mpg higher than the old vehicle, the voucher will be worth $4,500."
This could change. There's a story from the Detroit News that says it's a done deal based mostly on the House version and that it'll be finalized next week, or at least an initial one billion dollar's worth of the program. The other three billion in expected costs would be shunted to the next fiscal year. More at Green Car Advisor.
Unless the bill changes, it appears that you are out of luck. Fueleconomy.gov says that your Legend gets 19 mpg combined.
Edmunds Cash for Clunkers list (pdf file)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
The first '94 Automatic Legend is rated19 mpg and the second one is rated 18 mpg (new MPG).
There are three kinds of '94 Automatic Legends: L, LS (3.2L V6) and GS (which uses a Type-II 3.2L V6 engine).
Switch the VIN plates, maybe?