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The above is from the CR annual report. If you look at the annual report you will notice that they have over 4 million subscribers to the magazine and over 3.2 million subscribers to their on-line site. They had about $248million in operating income and about $245 million in operating expense. Of that $248 million in revenue over $225 million was from subscriptions. The other revenue was from donations. They are a non-profit and their books are strictly audited. I have no connection with CR and don't always agree with everything they say about cars but I am a subsciber.
You say you always bring up the question as to where do they get all their money to do all the things they do. I just gave you the answer. Unless you have proof that they are crooked, please stop insinuating that they are.
Again if CR told me I was alive I would go to my doctors to make sure.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
As far as I am concerned CR is as crooked as a mountain road.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Do you have one shred of proof or are you just one those people that say "Oh well I don't agree with everything they print and they take advertising dollars to stay in business......oh, oh, brainstorm, they must be on the take and write stories favoring their biggest advertisers".
Now you say Car and Driver "might be influenced" by advertising money. You know you can say these things over and over but talk is cheap. Prove it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I also completed another Hyundai survey about my purchase experience, and I was not so happy with this one. As seems common nowadays, Hyundai apparently expects every response to be a perfect 10. As is also common nowadays, the dealer told me that this survey was coming and he told me that he would be "hear about it" if I didn't give a perfect score for every response. I don't understand why manufacturers play this game. Nobody is perfect. And to the extent that customers follow their dealer's advice and give perfect 10's, then the manufacturer is not getting reliable feedback. In my case, I ignored my dealer's appeal and tried to answer the survey questions honestly. And I actually gave the dealer 8's and 9's because I was pretty happy with their performance. So essentially I gave them a B+ rating. But a couple of weeks later, my salesman called me and asked me why I was so unhappy with the sales experience. Hyundai had called the dealer and reported that I was unsatisfied.
That said, it's also possible that a mistake was made in the incident you're referring to since you don't give any details. Bottom line nobody says CR is perfect, who is? However, it's a long ways from saying someone makes mistakes to taking payoffs or is crooked.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion which you clearly state when you say "As far as I'm concerned". I consider that an opinion, not proof.
Now back to the regularly scheduled program........
CR gave one an above average rating and the other poor. And there was absolutely no difference between the two.
Just one reason I don't trust CR.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I don't have complete trust in any source, but when I'm preparing to make a large purchase, I want as much information as I can get from as many sources as I can find. As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as too much data.
Later on in the evaluation process, I may decide to give less weight to some sources & more to others, but I won't ignore data from any reasonably credible source. That would be silly.
I wouldn't buy a car without first reading CR's review of it - we're longtime subscribers - but that doesn't mean that CR's opinion by itself will drive my decision.
We don't finance our cars - we pay cash for them & we keep them for a long time - & that makes us cautious, non-impulsive buyers.
Incidentally, CR's review of the new Sonata is highly favorable. In their words, "The redesigned Sonata is a major leap ahead of its predecessor. It now ranks with our top-rated family sedans and is competitively priced."
In the 80's I worked for a company that made small appliances for "other" companies. Basically we were making them for other companies to sell. One of the products we made was a blender. We made this one blender for two different companies (off brand names) and the only difference was the casing and the name on it. Insides were the same made to the same specs. It was joked that when one came off the line a coin was flipped to determine which company it was for.
CR gave one an above average rating and the other poor. And there was absolutely no difference between the two.
Some of you know I'm a big supporter of Kia Motors. I'm not an employee of Kia Motors and I'm not a salesman of Kia vehicles. I'm not a Kia stockholder. I have, though, owned two of them and although those two new Kia's my wife and I have bought gave us great service and have been traded in on subsequent new cars, I would consider both my wife and I fans of Kia Motors.
I read the various car magazines that I can get my hands on at Barnes & Noble, Wal*Mart, Border's, Hastings, etc., to see what's new in the automotive world. My wife doesn't. But as to what snake has stated about CR reporting, I will concur that I don't go by what they say very much.
I don't trust their honesty, or their originality. Back when I followed every new Kia model like a hawk, I knew exactly what the new Spectra looked like (the 2002 model is the one I'm talking about), down ta all the details of the front grille, etc. Some other things changed, too, regarding the engine of the compact car and some options and package details. I knew them because I'd scoured the net for months reading up about this car-I was gonna buy one. We bought a 2001 Kia Sportage 4X4 instead, that's how my wife fits in to the story. She didn't "want another small car". She ran up to a Pepper Red 5-speed Sportage 4X4 and had to have it. Turned out to be a tough little trooper for towing goods and climbing mountains and getting me out of icy, slippery situations with it's 4WD system, at least 3 times in the states of Missouri and Idaho. But by looking at CR I was looking for maybe some of their insight or something new I didn't already know about the 2002 Kia Spectra sedan.
So...how did CR see any of these changes? A test-drive might have been expected, too? Naah...they gave it the same exact review as the Sephia review the year before and showed an old picture for the sedan, and called it up-ta-date!
Now, I was looking for something new about the car that I didn't already know. I know that as car enthusiasts we usually know more than the salesmen talking to us about the car. CR not only gave outdated information they were trying to pass off as new but couldn't even put a new photgraph of the new year's Kia Spectra model.
And then CR gave it their customary "Knowing this information we can't give it our Michael Jordan Seal of Almighty Approval and Recommendation" crap they repeatedly gave the subcompact Kia sedan year after year after year.
I'm sorry, that's publishing misinformation and it's unprofessional and it's bunkweed of the highest cost and hassle to procure. After seeing they wouldn't do their homework yet expected their work to still be bought and paid for well I lost all respect for them.
I think that while we were still down in southern Arizona I probably picked up a CR in Tucson or Sierra Vista once or twice just for poops and giggles, but I don't put very much credence in their magazine. I say use it for hamster fodder or for packing valuable items for shipping. Spending money on a CR magazine would be a no-no times 25.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I was slowing for a red light a few days ago, and there was a GLS in the lane to the left of me, already at a full stop. It had alloy wheels. Just as I pulled up next to it, I glanced at the tires & wheels and thought the tires read they were 16 inchers. The light had turned green, and it started rolling before I could get a good look.
My question is, are the GLS alloys still 16"? Seems like the right thing to do ( especially if they're not being tossed in for free ) would be to increase them to 17".
Tuckerdog1
2011 Optima SX with turbo and auto, $26,995
Prem pkg = $2,100
Tech pkg = $2,100
Total $31995*
* indicated the above price does not include destination chgs which for the 2010 Optima were $695
Grand total = $31,890 (if destination chgs remain the same)
This is just shy of the $32k I've been predicting and since KIA is often priced a little less than Hyundai for similar vehicles it will be interesting to see what a similarly configured Sonata will come in at.
Please let me know how you came up with less than $30k with all options keeping in mind that the figurator does not include dest. chgs.
Estimated Total Price: $30,495*
So call it 31k with destination.
* The "prices" listed on this SITE are planning estimates for survey purposes only. The listed price estimates exclude destination & handling charges, taxes, title and license fees and dealer charges that would apply in an actual purchase/lease transaction.
Obviously it must have been either in the base price or the option prices. See my previous post and let me know where the difference was. It must be based on different pricing for different zips.
I live in the Chicago nw suburbs.
and now doing it a 3rd time I come up with a base Estimated Total Price: $27,495* and 2200 for each package for a total minus destination of Estimated Total Price: $31,895*
So I'm going to call that site unreliable at best. For what it's worth, this site (sourcing Motor Trend) feels the Kia will undercut the Sonata:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/06/2011-kia-optima-spied-in-the-wild.htm- l
"The Optima will go on sale towards the end of 2010, and while pricing hasn’t been announced, expect it to undercut its rivals, including the Sonata, by a fair margin."
The third party running the figurator must be a car dealer.
I think the first time I went on that site a couple of weeks ago the option pkgs were $1900 one time and $2000 the next so it's very strange even from the same zipcodes. If I was KIA I would put the skids on it before it alienates people.
:http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/plgtx/Vehicle/HornAdj.jpg
Back in the late 60's, early 70's, the Plymouth Road Runner was advertised with the "Beep-Beep" sound effect from the cartoon show.
I worked at a dealership that had an AMC franchise. I am not kidding when I tell you that for a short period of time the AMX came with a window decal in the glove box showing the Coyote choking the Roadrunner with the caption "Beep-Beep My [non-permissible content removed]!"
They were included with the owners manual, but not for very long.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/beep%20beep%20my%20ass/andjusticeforall666/RO- ADRUNNER1.jpg
"When we first drove the all new 2011 Sonata, we commented that the time to buy the car is now, before Hyundai gets smart and jacks up the price. That price-hike may come sooner than later, with company CEO Steve S. Yang recently commenting that it is one of the automaker’s “main goals.”
“When our quality is almost equal to (Tier 1 non-luxury brands), then our prices should be similar,” he said at a meeting at the automaker’s U.S. headquarters.
Unfortunately for Hyundai its perception by consumers hasn’t yet caught up to its reputation with the automotive press, or with its solid quality, reliability and dependability statistics. To combat this imbalance, Hyundai will launch a marketing campaign focused on the brand’s recent awards. Through quality products and a new corporate image, Hyundai wants to become one of the top three automakers in quality, and one of the top five in perceived quality within the next five years.
Hyundai has already increased its prices with incremental changes over the years and the result has been positive. When combined with the brand’s improved quality, efficiency and a long list of new products, the average amount paid for a Hyundai by consumers has increased 11 percent since 2008 and that number is only going to head North from here."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Theta_engine
There is now a 2010 Maxima SV (crimson black exterior/cafe latte interior) with monitor, cold, spoiler and assorted accessories in my garage. Liked the Maxima and the base TL about the same. The Maxima was a better deal for me by about $2K. I liked the look and extra features of the Max vs. the TL. The Sonata is just not as solid of a performer on the road and not as nice inside as the other two which isn't surprising considering I don't think it is meant to compete with the Maxima and TL. The turbo won't change that in my opinion.
Then, I get in my car after work today and the AC is not working at all. It is blowing HOT air. I drove straight to the dealer and within 1 mile of the dealer it starts to blow cool air. By the time the tech got in it was cold. This was the second time this occured. the first time it was cold within 5 minutes. This time it was over 20 minutes before it started to blow some what cool air. Not sure what the problem is, but they are keeping it and will let it sit in the hot sun tomorrow to see if they can duplicate the problem. VERY FRUSTRATING for a car thats 1 month old and only has 850 miles. Hope its not a sign of things to come. :lemon:
The gas tank noise is interesting. That would be a tricky one to isolate, but very easy to fix. I assume one of the straps wasn't placed quite right, or not quite snug or some such. Did the dealer put you in a free loaner? The local dealer did with my wife when the Tucson was in the shop.
Yes, there are lemons and often they can be pricey lemons since lot of them are Euro brands like Jaguar. Even Hyundai has some models that dont have stellar reliability performance like the current Elantra model series or 2006-2010 Sonata.
Had the same problem down near Houston, with the same sort of "special" pump nozzle. Had to slow the fuel deliver way down to keep it from shutting off. But back here at home, I can put fuel in as fast as the pump will run, and a couple of stations can really crank in the fuel. So I just figured it had something to do with the interaction of the tank venting system and the low emissions fuel nozzle?
I am not aware of any general, widespread problem with Hyundais re gas tanks. There was a recall six years ago on my Elantra for a fuel filler pipe, but I never noticed a problem with it before or since. I have seen some problems with other makes, recently, e.g.:
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1046585_lexus-planning-recall-of-2010-hs-250h- -for-potential-post-crash-fuel-leak
Another 2011 Sonata review
Another 2011 Sonata review
Has there been a bad review?
Thanks-
Rob-
If this is your first Hyundai, let me tell you something about your engine. I have owned four Hyundai, and every dang one of them started running smoother, stronger, and getting better fuel economy right as they hit 3000 miles. If it happened once, it could be my imagination. Twice, awfully strong coincidence. But four times? It would be very easy to program the ECM to keep the timing, dwell and fuel delivery at, say, 90% optimum for the first X number of miles to let the engine and drive train settle in. Then switch to the correct settings and let the customer be happy that the car is running better than ever, and gee, the mileage is even better!
Don't have proof of that, but have four Hyundai that have done it.
Well there is this one....
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-car-review-20100624,0,5145013.story