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Afraid Camry Owner - Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety



  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "some "unintended accel" accidents/incidents"

    I always view those unintended acceleration with doubts, especially when the supposedly "root cause" is a sticky accelerator.

    a sucky accelerator may have caused "unintended acceleration, :) but a sticky accelerator?

    and the brakes would have to fail at the same time too.

  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "I gave the camry to my son who is now justifiably concerned."

    don't let him wait for a fix from Toyota. Get him another vehicle ASAP.

    you monetary lose from a bad car is a few hundred dollars or maybe a couple grand. your emotional lose from a bad car injuring your son is priceless.
  • "it also seems likely that some "unintended accel" accidents/incidents could have occurred with manual transmission Camrys - but maybe not as severe?"

    Oh sure - I don't disagree with that at all. To me the clutch pedal just gives another avenue of safety, not a "cure all".

    You have to admit - a big pedal on the floor that instantly disconnects the engine from the drivetrain (essentially) is a pretty powerful tool for safety.
  • chetjchetj Posts: 324
    to anyone reading...couldnt you just put car in neutral?...what happened to cop in his lexus that crashed in CA?...i only buy underrated domestics...i dont think there is a big difference in any car on market w/ quality, but honestly i would be scared to buy a toy till they fix that their engines sludge if you run oil too long before changing, not that i would ever do that...i read about a tech in bitog saying he saw a lot of toy sludge, mainly due to long oil change intervals or even as little as 6k
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    " a big pedal on the floor that instantly disconnects the engine from the drivetrain (essentially) is a pretty powerful tool for safety."

    a driver who knows how to drive a car is the most powerful tool for safety.

    unfortunately, s/he is in short supply.
  • "to anyone reading...couldnt you just put car in neutral?...

    Yes. Quite simply, yes. You are far to logical to be here - get out before somebody performs "rocket surgery" on your logic reasoning and common sense!!!

    Once again:

    Drive safely and enjoy your Toyota

    Snark away.... Last post....
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 19,830
    That's a good link that every driver (not just Toyota) should watch.

    Man, this is getting messy.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    In response to Toyota’s massive pedal recall, the country’s biggest wholesale automobile auctions are parking the automaker’s products until a fix is made. Major car auctions, like those run by Manheim and ADESA, are vital to the used car industry, and their decision will likely have an affect on both availability and residual value of many Toyota cars.

    “The safety of our customers and employees is our utmost priority, and in that regard, the suspension should continue until the issues have been resolved,” the National Auto Auction Association said in a statement released to the media.

    ADESA and Manheim together control well over half of the wholesale auction industry in the United States.

    The decision to pull recalled Toyotas from the auctions follows the footsteps of many major rental car agencies, which are not renting recalled Toyotas until a fix is made. Hertz, Enterprise (which runs Alamo and National), Avis Budget and Dollar Thrifty have all decided to stop renting Toyotas until a fix is made.

    Used car retailer CarMax has also decided to temporarily halt selling all new and used Toyotas that would be covered under the recall.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,147
    indeed millwood0, that is precisely what I understand has been happening in the "worst case" in the field: brakes, auto-trans-gearshift, and ignition-off apparently all fail at once, as computer/software is wrongly convinced that driver wants maximum throttle.
    corner-case. race condition. rare occurrence.
    but overall it's guaranteed to happen way-too-often when there are so many millions of susceptible vehicles on the roads.
    i have made much of my career by of hunting & eliminating problems like this for communications embedded-systems products.

    chetj, that is precisely part of the problem - it appears that in some cases the car apparently will NOT shift into neutral. in some cases it will shift into neutral. in this area i disagree with ponderpoint's analysis, but i sure agree with regard to manual-transmission/clutch.

    one reason I am convinced that the vehicles sometimes will not shift into neutral is the Lexus-driving-cop-and-family on his 911 call saying something closely resembling "It won't shift into neutral, and the ignition will not turn off". that tape is probably on youtube/whatever/abc-news. maybe i am not remembering/quoting what the cop said just before he and his family died in their non-Camry - please correct me if so.

    Not sure if there are any 911-audio-tapes of Camry drivers in the similar predicament.
  • This problem is a lot bigger than what they are saying and goes back a lot longer to
    I was a flag waving, card carring member of the I LOVE MY TOYOTA CLUB until my 1996 Camry, one day in 08, it just accelerated on its own. I was at a stop light with my foot on the brake ( thank God) and the engine just started to run faster and faster and it was pulling away. It was like someone just stepped on the gas and pinned the peddle to the floor. There was nothing I could do. I had both feet pressing on the brake peddle as hard as I could. I was literally standing on it and my butt was off the front seat trying to control this car. My wheels were smoking, my brakes were smoking, it was a nightmare. I slammed it in into neutral then into park and shut the car off. Waited a while and started the car again leaving it in park. It seemed fine. no revving, not sense that it was accelerating on its own. I was about a mile from my house and wanted to get it into the drive way and off the road. I put it into park and let it roll a bit on its own. Seemed ok. So I put my foot lightly on the gas, still ok. About a half a mile of driving very gingerly- its starts to take off again, exact same thing and I was hardly touching the gas.

    If my 69 year old mother was driving she never would have been able to handle or control that car the way it was behaving.

    So I called Toyota- they said they never heard of that before- but funny how my mechanic did. He thought he fixed it once- then on the way home from the mechincs it took off again. Then he got in it and it took off on him. After he began doing some research and knowing a few long time mechanics for toyota- it was acknowledge that this was a problem they had seen before. about $1000 later it seemed fixed. I drove it for a month to make sure- but I wasn't comfortable driving it anymore even though i LOVED THAT CAR and took great care of it- I sold it. I now drive a Honda Accord. Not nearly as smooth a ride as my Camry, but so far it hasn't launched me down the street.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    This problem is a lot bigger than what they are saying and goes back a lot longer

    That is only beginning to be known; the TOYOTA RECALLS HAVE ONLY BEGUN!
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    CTS Corporation, the Indiana-based supplier of accelerator pedals blamed for Toyota’s massive – and growing – recall, says that it was building the pedals to the automaker’s standards and that responsibility for the allegedly faulty part lies on Toyota.

    Mitchell Walorski, head of the supplier’s investor relations department, told Automotive News that CTS is assisting Toyota, “but this is their recall. Toyota is heavily involved in all stages of testing and production. That is why their quality is so high.”

    “The newly designed pedal is now tested, and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories,” CTS said in a statement released to the media. Toyota says it has not decided if it will ship the new pedals to dealers to have them installed in unsold inventory and customer cars or if service departments will modify the existing design.

    Elkhart, Indiana-based CTS began producing the pedals last year at its Mississauga, Ontario, assembly plant when Denso was unable to supply enough for Toyota.

    CTS isn’t taking the blame for crashes involving Toyota vehicles, however.

    “We are aware of fewer than a dozen instances where this condition has occurred, and in no instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially depressed condition,” the company said in a statement.

    CTS builds pedals for a number of automakers, each based on a different design. The company says that the Ford pedals it builds in China for that market’s Transit Classic large truck is of a different design.

    Toyota has separately recalled many of its models over floor mats which the automaker says can become lodged against the gas pedal or which prevent the brake pedal from operating.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    During a routine test on its Sienna minivan in April 2003, Toyota Motor Corp. engineers discovered that a plastic panel could come loose and cause the gas pedal to stick, potentially making the vehicle accelerate out of control. :sick:

    The automaker redesigned the part and by that June every 2004 model year Sienna off the assembly line came with the new panel. Toyota did not notify tens of thousands of people who had already bought vans with the old panel, however.

    It wasn't until U.S. safety officials opened an investigation last year that Toyota acknowledged in a letter to regulators that the part could come loose and "lead to unwanted or sudden acceleration."

    In January, nearly six years after discovering the potential hazard, the automaker recalled 26,501 vans made with the old panel.
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    Your 1st post on Edmunds and it`s Toyota bashing...Jeez...Now a 96 camry !!! Next thing will be a 1980 Camry/Corolla getting SUA..C`mon folks --get real ,stop the mass hysteria and be practical ! :shades:
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,147
    when will the lawsuits begin?
    a coworker of mine sued chrysler for not recalling his early-year minivan after they knew-of-dangerous-issue redesigned the e-brake-cable for future years. the defect resulted in his rear brakes locking up in a snowstorm, and his wife and 2 daughters died.
    he sued Chrysler and "won" about $10M. This was in the late 1990s.
    seems to me that Toyota is going to be receiving to a BUNCH of lawsuits like that.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Toyota has a history of delaying the recall a safety defect until long after it had discovered the problem.

    In 1994, NHTSA slapped Toyota with a $250,000 fine, at the time the agency's second-largest, for providing misleading information about a fuel leak in Land Cruisers and waiting two years to undertake a recall to fix the problem. Toyota acknowledged that it failed to conduct a timely recall but denied withholding information from the agency.

    A decade later, Toyota recalled about 330,000 vehicles in Japan after a 2004 crash there -- caused by a broken steering linkage -- seriously injured five people. The vehicle in the accident, a Hilux Surf, was sold in the U.S. as the 4Runner. Other truck models sold here, including the Toyota 4x4 and T100 pickups, also used the same linkage, a steering relay rod.

    Despite that, the company told NHTSA in an October 2004 letter that it would not conduct a U.S. recall because it had not received information here indicating a problem with the part.

    Documents entered in four lawsuits filed in Los Angeles this year, however, show that Toyota had received numerous consumer complaints dating from 2000 and had replaced dozens of the parts under warranty. The documents also show that Japanese police, in an investigation of the defect, said that Toyota employees had known about the problem since 1992 and should have initiated a recall immediately.

    In September 2005, Toyota recalled nearly 1 million vehicles in the U.S. to replace the part, its second-largest campaign.

    Toyota delays have deadly consequences. Zackary Audulewicz of Ila, Georgia paid the price for Toyota's delays. The 20-year-old was driving a Toyota 4x4 in August 2003 when the pickup lost control after a "pop" and a "spark".
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,095
    If you own one of the models listed in the recall and have actually experienced the unintended acceleration, please send an email with details of the experience and how it felt.

    Edmunds Manager UGC Click on my screen name to send a personal message. Need help navigating? Check out Getting Started in Edmunds Forums.
    Need help picking out a make/model, finding inventory, or advice on pricing? Talk to an Edmunds Car Shopping Advisor

  • Here is the call:

    At no time can you hear anyone indicate the car would not shift into neutral. In fact from the San Diego police report the driver who had the mat problem only a few days before, in the same car, was able to shift into neutral then move the mats away from the gas pedal.
    Here is a link to the San Diego county sheriffs police report:

    If you go to page 28 the report will tell you what gear the car may have been in when the crash happened.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..a driver who knows how to drive a car and react quickly and "properly" to an anomalous situation is the most powerful tool for safety..."

    Yes, not many of those around, just as it should be.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    The carpet mat issue is REAL, I can personally vouch for the "viaibility of that as it has happened to me twice in the past10-15 years.

    The sticking gas pedal is REAL.

    None of that means, conclusively, that there isn't yet another causative factor waiting in the weeds to be discovered.

    I'm personally casting my vote for a "bug" in the firmware.

    But again, even if "this" problem isn't discoverable in the short term an interim solution, WOT failsafe solution, will be quite easy to implement.
  • I want my money back, as well. I'm hoping there will at least be a class action lawsuit even though I'd probably die before I'd see any money.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,095
    Looking specifically for someone in the San Francisco area. Anyone?

    Edmunds Manager UGC Click on my screen name to send a personal message. Need help navigating? Check out Getting Started in Edmunds Forums.
    Need help picking out a make/model, finding inventory, or advice on pricing? Talk to an Edmunds Car Shopping Advisor

  • I just saw someting about new accelerator mechanisms being sent by Toyota to the factories, not the dealers.
    Two things:
    (1) Is this a fix? It seems awfully fast.
    (2) If so, shouldn't we the people on the road get them first?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 19,830
    Can you imagine if Toyota were to give everyone their money back?

    Don't think that's gonna happen.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "I want my money back, "

    I want my billion dollars, my private island, my own planet, .....

    whom can I sue to get all of what I think I deserve?
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    So I am waiting for Toyota to fix my defective 2009 Camry so what do they do, they are sending the pedals to the factories instead of the dealers.

    Thanks Toyota for yet again screwing over the customer and be more worried about getting your sales up and ready. And people say Toyota cares about its customers.

    Toyota is sending new gas pedal systems to car factories rather than dealerships who want the parts to take care of millions of customers whose pedals may stick.

    Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons confirms information in a company e-mail obtained by the AP that says parts were shipped to factories. Lyons says that's how the company normally distributes parts.

    But some dealers say they should get the parts first because they now have no way to fix the pedals on any of the 4.2 million recalled vehicles affecting eight U.S. models.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "So I am waiting for Toyota to fix my defective 2009 Camry so what do they do,"

    that's the part I never understood about those Camry owners. they apparently value safety very much. they are fearful of driving their cars. yet, for some small dollars, they are willing to risk the lives of themselves and their families.

    are they really that cheap? if so, they deserve what they got.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    I feel for those Rustundra we all know what they had to go through.

    Lessons learned, don't buy a Toyota. If it has to be a Japanese car, go with either Honda or Nissan.

    Someone needs to form a boycott against Toyota until they begin to assist the customer as they have "proclaimed" for years. Sounds great in advertising, now we all see what reality brings. :lemon:
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660

    I own a Toyota and do live in San Francisco area. I presently own a 2006 RAV4 and have had few intermittant minor incidents of unexplained engine acceleration for aproximately 6 months. Vehicle did respond to braking immediately, but incidents were quite suspicious and I have been evaluate for any further problems. I also spoke with friends who own a 2008 RAV4 who had also noticed problems that just began appearing over past few months. His incidents all occurred while driving and then applying brakes. Engine acceleration was refusing to respond to braking. Each time engine finally responded, but was quite delayed. Brakes were fine, floor mats not an issue. .

    This is my first Toyota. I had researched extensively all SUV's prior to buying for my special needs. The vehicles meets my needs, but am concerned. Toyota does not have brake over ride systems on our vehicles. Consumer Reports did a Auto Comparison Demonstration conducted by Auto Engineer involving unexplained acceleration between Toyota and a VW. Video is excellent nd appears it was done last fall sometime. Video demonstrates how to stop Toyota vehicle. VW demonstration put same circumstances responded quickly to braking. Underlying cause is not addressed, and realize multiple causative factors may exist. Video undeniably reveals the huge danger that exists for accidents that may result in great bodily harm and/or death if driver does not do precisely as directed.

    Karen, I would be interested in speaking with you.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "Someone needs to form a boycott against Toyota until they begin to"

    don't wait for someone to start that.

    if you are truly concerned, start it now, and start it by yourself.
This discussion has been closed.