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Nissan Leaf

Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,092
Talk about the Leaf here!
«13

Comments

  • early74bearly74b Posts: 34
    As their is no specific forum for the Nissan LEAF and it will be all-electric decided to start a new thread -- let's hear from those who were successful in putting down a deposit to buy/lease a new LEAF. I myself went for a red one with the extra options but would like to see what's popular. The LEAF will replace a smart fortwo coupe going to my son -- we'll use if for around town commuting, have a heated garage for it and it won't be our only car -- what about others?
  • early74bearly74b Posts: 34
    (from a Nissan rep on the My Nissan LEAF forum, posted 4/23/10, 3 days after site launch):

    Today we announced that so far, we've secured 6,635 US reservations- in only three days!

    A couple of other interesting tidbits:
    • We had 2,700 reservations in the first 3 hours that reservations opened.
    • 75% of reservations are for the upper trim level (includes fog lights, automatic headlights, rear-view monitor & solar panel spoiler)
    • About 75% are from our primary launch markets where we have working partnerships (California, Washington, Oregon, Arizona and Tennessee)
    • Most popular colors: blue and silver (other colors are red, black and white)
  • early74bearly74b Posts: 34
    I pre-ordered a red SL model on launch day (4/20/10); any other Edmunds members?
  • redline65redline65 Posts: 693
    So do you have to get the charging station installed before you can buy a Leaf? The steps given in the reservation process made it seem like you had to. I was interested in reserving one but I don't want to go through having one installed if I haven't even seen or driven the car yet.
  • I have a 48-mile journey at highways speeds. And I have range anxiety. Please reassure me :-)

    charging overnight on eachend is not a problem.

    Thanks! -- Bill
  • To Karen S.., We have something in common. I also ordered a red SL LEAF on 4/20.
    I have been following the development of this car since I heard about it last September. I had a Civic Hybrid that I bought new in 1997, I loved that car and was never disappointed in any way with it's performance. I had to pass it along to my son in law when we lived overseas for a while. He still drives it and has never had any problems.
    I am even more excited about the new LEAF !!!
  • I could hardly wait for the reservation day to arrive,, I awaited the email from Nissan and completed my reservation minutes after it arrived. I will be trading my 2006 Nissan we have a second car that we will use for longer trips. We also have a heated garage that we can keep the Leaf in and set up the charging station.. I also ordered the red model, but went for the more basic trim level.
  • Jason, That is exactly the same question that I have been pondering. If the LEAF is not expected to be available in my area ( atlanta) until after the first of the year. Do I need to invest 2000 dollars for a charging station .. I know there is a 50% tax credit, but is still a considerable investment to make before even having a chance to sit in the car!
  • I have been signed up to get the Leaf news updates untill they posted the price. Come on Nissan ! You have a car with only an electric motor in it ( which is what I wanted ) Then you can buy a Prius with electric and a gas motor for thousands less. You are clearly taking advantage of the tax rebate to line your pockets.
    Guess I have to wait for another electric or build my own.
    Mike.
  • gfr1gfr1 Posts: 55
    The Leaf and the other full electrics, aren't my thing and I would take the Prius, but your reasoning isn't reasonable! Battery technology and capacity is the issue and an expensive one. The Leaf supposedly has the battery capacity to go 100 miles? And, it can travel at highway speeds for an unknown (to me) distance. Say, at least half that. The Prius has a dinky battery that will go at residential street speeds for maybe ¼ mile, if you're lucky. The capability for the battery powerd range costs aren't in any way comparable. As I say, I'd not select the Leaf as my transportation, but its a start and at a point where technology costs are very high. The Prius is a contender in a different market/customer consideration from the Leaf. gfr1
  • I am well aware of the cost of batteries, as the Lithium. I have also pondered over the years finding a doner car to convert to electric. Being a car entheuist, I also know it would cost me many times over, to buy the parts to build my own Nissan Altima compared to what I could buy one for. My point is, there are more and more companies selling packaged battery packs for EV`s. I`m sure Nissan could get those at a fraction of what I would have to pay.
    The company E-stor near Austin TX., has the best hope I`ve seen so far to get more EV`s on the road, with their capacitor type energy storage. Just hope they dont sell out to the oil companies.
    Note: The first EV was believed to be built between 1832-1839
    with many others to follow over the years.
  • early74bearly74b Posts: 34
    Came back after a few days of my original post ... one of the best sites for info on the Nissan LEAF can be found at: My Nissan Leaf

    Just like my smart fortwo, an EV is not an all-purpose vehicle, until the battery range as well as infrastructure for quick charging changes you'll need to accept that it may be your second car or could be a primary car if you rent something else for longer trips. The battery tech is getting better (Nissan even hints that a next gen battery could have a 200 mile range) but it's not there yet in this price range (the Tesla S and Fisker Karma will have greater range but at a much higher price tag as well as very limited quantities).

    I can afford multiple cars that are all under cover (plus have 3 drivers who travel in different directions for work, etc.) so the LEAF will be ideal for 2 out of 3 of us for simple work commuting; due to the much less than 50 mile one-way commute we'll charge it overnight so quick charge station access won't be a problem.

    To answer a few postings here -- Nissan plans to offer several driving opportunities prior to the cars release, nothing posted yet but in the works. MBZ offered the same for the smart (whose deposit was also refundable) so if you don't want to get pre-wired for the garage quick charger, I'd wait to drive it. As to the 48 mile one-way commute, keep in mind that both sides would need a quick charger otherwise you might not get enough juice -- as with gas cars, your mileage will vary so you'll need to check your route to see if this works. The LEAF has an on board range calculator so a dry run to see that you don't exceed the half-way mark would be best to reduce 'range anxiety' --- having a charger on the other side would then just be a bonus.

    As far as the battery cost --- lot's of speculation that Nissan has cracked the code on getting the cost down as they've been at it for 17 years! Their senior management has said that they will make a profit and the LEAF won't be a loss leader so we'll see!

    I'm also from a town (NW 'burb of Chicago) that's not among the first few cities so may not see LEAF's being sold here until 2012 but hopefully sooner. We actually have 4 functional charging stations (mostly for EV fleet vehicles) but there does seem to be some interest.
  • morin2morin2 Posts: 399
    I'm hoping this car is a huge success and also hoping that the range is slightly higher than expected, due to my 54 mile commute each way. My commute is mostly rural highway 55-60 mph, so that might easier on the batteries. I'll be keeping alert to the reports of actual users.

    I do find the Nissan ad "priced for everyone" to be misleading. Most people will not qualify for the 7500 tax credit because the credit is not a refundable credit. It requires a tax liability of at least 7500 to receive the full credit. For a joint income, 7500 tax liability comes at 55,550 taxable income. Working backwards from taxable income (line 43), you'd add the value of exemptions (line 42) and also standard or itemized deductions (line40a) to come up with adjusted gross income of at least $83K. Any cap gains or dividends will increase that. So basically, an income will need to be at least $83K with no adjustments or other credits, such as education credits, to qualify for the full electric vehicle credit. In reality, people do have some adjustments and other credits, so the adjusted gross income will likely need to be well over $100K, even $150K for those with 2 kids in college and claiming the education credits, to qualify for the full electric vehicle credit. I don't consider that to be "priced for everyone". Lower income buyers will likely see their full tax liability erased, but will be disappointed that their net cost for the Leaf will be considerably higher than the widely advertised and misleading $25K the ads suggest.
  • lhansonlhanson Posts: 268
    Can any remaining tax credit not used be carried over to the following year?
  • early74bearly74b Posts: 34
    Very doubtful, it's not treated like capital losses in excess of the annual $3K limit that can be carried over to later years. These types of credits have been in existence since the hybrid's first came out so will probably follow the same logic -- as always, check with your tax professional before assuming anything but I don't believe for instance you can get a 'refund' for the $7,500 if your tax liability is less than that as well as push the excess credit into the following year -- please check the mynissanleaf forum as we have a lively discussion about this very topic and many have weighed in on it:

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=283">How Will Tax Credit Work?
  • morin2morin2 Posts: 399
    edited May 2010
    The discussion on this topic at the mynissanleaf.com site was interesting. As early 74b indicated, you cannot carryover unused non-refundable tax credits. You must have sufficient tax burden to get the benefit of the entire 7500 credit. There is some incorrect advice there by one poster about adjusting witholding. Adjusting witholding has nothing to do with actual tax liability. The best advice is about converting a regular IRA to Roth IRA - which creates additional tax liability in the year of the conversion. Doing that might create enough tax liability to offset the full 7500 credit. In effect, doing so would be like converting an IRA to a Roth IRA for free or greatly reduced tax, if you were going to buy a Leaf anyway.

    My original calculations were very conservative and did not factor in the indexed cost-of-living changes in the tax table every year and itemized deductions, rather than the standard deduction. When both are factored in, you would need a joint income of close to 150K with few other credits to get the full credit on the Leaf. Fewer than 1% of all taxpayers are in that group - far from Nissan's foolish "priced for everyone" ad. Of course, who would advertise "priced for the highest 1% of all earners"?
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,092
    Free Chargers to be Provided to Electric Vehicle Buyers; Questions Answered in Live Chat at 11AM Eastern via Edmunds’ GreenCarAdvisor.com



    SANTA MONICA, Calif. — June 18, 2010 — Today at 11AM Eastern Daylight Time, Edmunds’ GreenCarAdvisor.com will provide access to a free live chat about the government program that will provide free home charging stations to early buyers of new electric vehicle including the Chevy Volt, Ford Transit Connect, Nissan Leaf and Smart Fortwo.

    The chat can be accessed at http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/06/got-questions-about-free-ev-cha- rger-program-get-answers-here.html.

    General Motors is the sponsor of the chat, which will feature representatives of charger providers Coulomb Technologies and ECOtality. Coulomb was named a co-recipient of Edmunds.com’s Green Car Breakthrough Award earlier this year.



    “The grants for home chargers are worth up to $2,000 per household each and in some cases the program will also help cover the cost of installation,” reported GreenCarAdvisor.com Senior Editor John O’Dell in his story at http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/06/federal-grant-for-free-home-ev-- chargers-expanded-by-30-million.html. “In announcing the program yesterday, the Energy Department said that half the money would come from taxpayer funds and half from private contributions.”
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    A reporter seeks to interview someone who intends to buy a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Volt. Please write [email protected] no later than Friday, August 27 to tell why.
    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com

    MODERATOR

    Need help navigating? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

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  • I live in Texas where the summer's are extremely hot. I need to use a/c. With a range of 100mpg between charges, it would be interesting to find out how much that range will drop? What if there was a way to have a second battery, one just for heating/a/c use? Maybe have a second one in the trunk to switch with the first one when the charge is depleted? Maybe some day have a compressed solar panel on car to remove heat for interior? gwiz1958
  • glfanglfan Posts: 17
    edited September 2010
    So, finally, after waiting for months, I got a quote from a dealer for $1k off MSRP. Is this a good price?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    A reporter would like to interview anyone who has put down a deposit for a Nissan Leaf, or plans to. Please reply to [email protected] no later than Monday, September 27 with your daytime contact information to be interviewed.
    Thanks,
    Jeannine
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com

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  • On April 20, 2010 I paid my $99 and enthusiastically reserved a Leaf. Since that date there has been virtually no communication from Nissan concerning this car. A form letter thanking me for the deposit and telling me what to expect would have been nice. How about a post card? Nothing! I still don't know how much this car will really cost since dealers may set their own price. Will they engage in the typical price gouging with a popular and limited supply vehicle? What is the battery warranty going to be? I've heard rumors but nothing official from Nissan. I am just about to bail out on this one and demand my deposit back. Nissan, in its rush to be the "first" has really dropped the ball.
  • early74bearly74b Posts: 34
    edited October 2010
    You didn't mention what part of the U.S. you're from but Nissan will be rolling out the LEAF on the west coast with a few additional areas, national rollout won't be until 3rd and 4th quarter of 2011 (here in Chicago late 3rd quarter) but you should see a few emails from them if you signed up for email alerts when you put your deposit down. To be honest this edmunds forum only scratches the surface for new info on the LEAF. You should check:
    http://www.mynissanleaf.com for much more info (including feedback on dealers). Nissan did announce the battery warranty (it's 8 years/100,000 miles). If you check out the info on that forum you'll see that there are a few dealers that will actually be selling the LEAF at a discount so competition may be for an overall less than list selling price for the new LEAF versus the Chevy Volt which already appears that some dealers may be adding a market price adjustment (i.e., more profits for the dealer). We'll see when both cars actually start showing up in showrooms --- by the way the first LEAF was recently delivered to Lance Armstrong ...
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    If you committed to purchasing or leasing a Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf, a reporter wants to interview you. Please email [email protected] no later than Friday, December 3, 2010 and include your daytime contact information including a few words on your decision to get your new vehicle.

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  • I just don't see a 73-mile range as anything remotely useful. Compare the Leaf's "range" to a recent test in Germany where a converted Audi A2 went 375 miles on one charge: http://organicconnectmag.com/wp/2010/10/electric-car-drives-375-miles-at-55-mph-- recharges-in-6-minutes/
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited December 2010
    Well, that depends on your commute.

    The Leaf ranges from about 75-130 depending on speed and driving style and terrain.

    If you live in a city, and your commute is, say, 40-60 miles round trip, you can buy a Leaf and be fine, even taking into account some daily side errands and a drive to lunch.

    It's useful as a commuter car.

    Not as a road trip car.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Hey, hosts - this needs to be moved from Hybrid Cars to Electric Cars......

    Definitely not a hybrid...
  • rcr4rcr4 Posts: 1
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited January 2011
    Sold only 10 in December? What?
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,443
    I don't think they had anymore than that to sell did they.
  • Here are 8 things you don't know about the Nissan Leaf; pretty interesting:
    http://www.energyinyourlife.com/article.php?t=100000076
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,443
    Going to be built in the USA starting next year is good news. Thanks for the link. It would cost me about $8 to charge up at our SDG&E rates. I would have to install solar panels to justify owning one.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,443
    without your power cord. :shades:

    image
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited January 2011
    That's a dumb cartoon. He can plug his laptop into his EV which is charging right there. That cartoonist is not very smart.

    It's easy (but useless) for him to make fun of something he obviously doesn't fully understand.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,443
    I think you just missed the point. Anything with a battery is subject to die. You have to have a power source near by or you can be left out in the cold. Or in your case, out in the heat.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "Anything with a battery is subject to die."

    That was his point? If so, then I have a message for him:

    "Thanks for the news flash, brainiac. No one knew."

    dupid.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    If you live in Southern California and bought a Nissan Leaf, a reporter wants to interview you. Please reply to [email protected] by Monday, February 14 with your daytime contact information.
    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com

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  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited April 2011
    They Likey:

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110414/GREEN/110419941

    Here are some recent fill-ups to give you an idea of how much the range varies depending on driving:

    -- When the car is fully charged in the morning, the range readout on the dash has read as high as 111 miles. Nissan Leaf salesman and EV advocate Paul Scott, who works at Nissan Santa Monica and owns a Leaf, says he has gone as far as 120 miles on a charge (he is a very conscientious driver).

    -- Yesterday we went 43 miles and used up 14 kilowatt-hours of battery. That was with a fair amount of A/C going. Driving as we were that day we could have continued for a total of 73.1 miles before the battery was empty.

    -- On March 30, we went 47 miles on 14 kilowatt-hours for a range of 80 miles.

    -- On March 28, we went 44.4 miles on 14 kilowatt-hours for 76.1 miles range.

    -- On April 11, we went 53.9 miles of mostly 55-mph freeway driving and used 14 kilowatt-hours, giving a potential range of 92.4 miles.

    -- On April 5, potential range was 81.2 miles; on April 1, it was 62.6.


    Then there are the operating costs. While the price of electricity varies all over the country, here in Southern California Edison territory it is about 13 cents per kilowatt-hour. That figure drops to 10 cents a kilowatt-hour if you get a separate meter and charge overnight. At 3.8 miles per kilowatt-hour, it takes one dollar to go 38 miles or $10 to go 380 miles. If a car gets 20 mpg and gasoline is $4 a gallon, operating costs for an EV work out to almost one-eighth if the cost for a gasoline-powered car. Higher electricity bills and lower gas costs will change that figure, but it's still way less expensive to operate an EV than an internal-combustion engine.

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,443
    edited April 2011
    here in Southern California Edison territory it is about 13 cents per kilowatt-hour. That figure drops to 10 cents a kilowatt-hour if you get a separate meter and charge overnight.

    They need to run the same test in San Diego on SDG&E rates. Which are tiered with NO night rates or special EV rates. Notice Summer rates are higher than winter rates for SDG&E customers. You get to the tier 4 rate after you use 626 KWHs in a month. With taxes that 31 cents is 34 cents per KWH. If you use their 3.8 miles per KWH it comes out to .089 cents per mile. At $4 per gallon the Prius will cost you about .079 cents per mile. Just does not make any sense to own a Leaf unless you are generating your own solar electricity. That is still a debate in my mind even with a lease.

    http://sdge.com/customer/rates/tierCosts.shtml
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited April 2011
    Gary, if people ONLY bought things which were financially responsible, not many people would own a car...or a cell phone...or a TV.....or a second home in HI......:) :shades:

    http://publicola.com/2011/04/06/cost-of-driving-rises-another-3-4-percent/

    According to a new report from AAA, the average annual cost to own and drive a car has riven 3.4 percent in the past year, thanks largely to increases in fuel prices, depreciation, and tire prices. Overall, the cost of owning a sedan in the US rose 1.9 cents per mile last year, to 58.5 cents a mile, or or $8,776 a year for a person who drives 15,000 miles a year. Drive more, which you’ll have to if you live in a far-flung suburb, and you’ll pay more (driving an extra 5,000 miles adds another $1,083 a year); drive an SUV, and your average annual cost goes up to $11,239. That’s almost half the median personal income of US residents! The cost of tires went up the most of any factor included in the cost of driving, rising 15.7 percent to 0.96 cents per mile.Overall, the cost of owning a sedan in the US rose 1.9 cents per mile last year, to 58.5 cents a mile, or or $8,776 a year for a person who drives 15,000 miles a year.
    Moreover, the cost of driving has either increased steadily or remained essentially unchanged over the past decade, even as gas prices have fluctuated. Driving, in other words, isn’t getting any cheaper—and that isn’t even including the costs of the negative externalities associated with driving, like sprawl, poor health, pollution, highway runoff, sedentary lifestyles, social isolation, and car crashes.

    Am I optimistic that, eventually, the car warriors will realize that alternatives to driving alone aren’t just a pet project for hippie environmentalists and “social engineers” who want to force people out of their cars? Not yet, but if the cost of driving continues to skyrocket the way it has been, even the most dedicated “free market” car proponent may have to admit that driving alone no longer makes anything resembling financial sense.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,443
    Gary, if people ONLY bought things which were financially responsible, not many people would own a car...or a cell phone...or a TV.....or a second home in HI

    I agree on all but the home in Hawaii. That netted me on the sale last year enough to buy 3 Nissan Leaves. With enough left over to get a Yaris for when electricity costs more than gas to run the car. Your too eat up with every automotive fad. You need to get a grip or you will waste all your sustenance on frivolous expenditures. I suppose it is too late to warn against the Cell phone or TV? :blush:
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    What Fad?

    Hybrids? EVs?

    Hybrids = Several million sold worldwide = not a fad = stopgap technology until something better comes along.

    EVs = stopgap technology until something better comes along.
  • live1live1 Posts: 6
    I have a Nissan Leaf and I have driven over 2k miles in a month. I also drive from Austin to Round Rock,Tx to get to work which is about 60 miles round trip hwy miles and I have never gotten standed or left out in the heat/cold. I am speaking as a owner of the Leaf that has been able to drive and charge it since I purchased it on March 5. I have to say this vehicle has become my primary vehicle. I use it to go and do everything and I have never felt any anxiety from driving around town or driving to the nearest city. I also have never needed to use a out side charging port to recharge my car, all I use is my home charging port and that is it. And yes a electric car needs to be charged or it will die just like a gas car that dies when it has no gas. when it comes to new cars even new cars have problems belive me I had a new car and had to take it in my first few weeks of driving it and they changes the transmission on it, so electric cars are just like anything else that is mass produced. I'm happy to say that my Leaf has not shown any sign of problems. I am one happy driver that has already saved over three hundred dollars and cant even remember the last time I went to the gas station to fill up my second car/suv.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,443
    Thank you for the review of your new car. Just out of curiosity what do you have to pay per KWH where you live? And did they install the fast charger in your garage? Is it on a separate meter or do you have night rates? All things that would make the Leaf a go or no go.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Thanks for the input. Good to know about good experiences with all the doubters around here... :shades:
  • live1live1 Posts: 6
    .015kw I think I'm in Austin,Tx. I posted my electric bill on my facebook for the world to see that there was only about a $40 difference in my bill and that is with charging on and off peak hours. And in regards to installing the port I had an electriction come out and run a 210 to the front of my house and my husband built a stand for it out of a 2by4 and it looks good picture on facebook. I bought my port and they mailed it to me and all I had to do was mount it and plug it in it really was that easy. also I have no garage the port is under the roof over hang. In regards to the meter the port is digital records kw usage on a weekly,monthly and yearly basis.
  • live1live1 Posts: 6
    I know those doubters do they even own a Leaf.
  • live1live1 Posts: 6
    not in my case I bought the car first then purchased the port.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,906
    >.015kw I think I'm in Austin,Tx.

    I know you aren't paying 1.5 Cents per thousand watts (Kw). We'll half half the country moving to Austin if that's true!

    That probably is 15 cents per Kw?

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

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