Jeep Wrangler

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Comments

  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Now you've got two keys you've got the ability to program more. The instructions should be in your handbook. You can usually get the blanks at a very good price on eBay. It's worth getting at least two more. One to hide one the outside (but make sure it's really hard to get at!), and another to keep at home (or with a neighbor, or in your bank box, etc.).

    Second, I'm sure you know you can't get an accurate mpg figure until you first verify the accuracy of the odometer, then either track the amount of gas used over a fair period of time, or consistantly fill the tank to the filler neck each time (which can be a long and tedious process). You certainly can't trust that the dealer took the trouble to make sure the tank was completely full.

    Good luck with your new Unlimited........ I'm jealous!
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I did see the instructions in the handbook, but will need to re-read them again. I agree that getting a couple more is an excellent idea.

    The 16 mpg was a rough estimate - I realize that there were too many variables (I have no idea what the mileage was when they filled it up, if they let it idle for any time after filling it up for some reason and so on). I usually keep track of how much fuel and how many miles and then average over a period of time - it seems to work best for me. I'll be happy if I can get 2 round trips to the office and back on a bit less than a tank of gas.

    By the way, I drove the Unlimited not quite 10 miles beyond the light coming on and put over 17 gallons in. If I do the same thing with the Sport I only put in just over 15 gallons. So it looks like the gas gauge is more accurate on the Unlimited - I'll have to watch that 'cause I'm not used to that!
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Harriet:

    WHOA! That is ONE BEAUTIFUL JEEP!

    If I had any doubts about Electric Lime Green, they are gone now. It's a great color.

    Yeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Congratulations, Jeep Buddy!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Electric Lime Green Wrangler Unlimited Jeep today? (Bet ya have!)
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    "oh yeah,, and I bought a CB on Ebay tonight, the highly recommended (by Paul) Cobra 75WXST; Tom, 3 weeks ago when i was asking all the questions about buying a jeep, why didn't you tell me I'd be spending so much on all the extras???"

    :)

    Surely you knew going into this that JEEP stands for Just Empty Every Pocket, didn't you????

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • arizonajoearizonajoe Member Posts: 123
    Hi all - I just went off-roading for the first time since childhood with some Rubicon-owning coworkers, and I LOVED it!

    I have lots of questions. Today's adventure eliminated any notions I had about a CR-V or Escape. They would not have survived. I don't think even a capable SUV like the Liberty or Xterra would have been able to turn around on the old mining "roads" we were traversing. There was just no space, and the Wrangler's short length was essential. I learned a lot about wheel articulation, low gearing, and locking diffs today.

    I drove for while and my main complaint is the steering rack. It's awful. It's all loosey-goosey, with absolutely no feedback or communication of the road surface. I felt extremely isolated and detached from the road in the Rubicon, which was surprising. I expected it to have a high fun-to-drive quotient all around, but I wouldn't want to drive this in the city much. I think the ideal setup is a Wrangler for off road, and a real car for everything else. Anyway, can I do something about the steering rack? Is there a sportier, tighter aftermarket setup?
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    The Wrangler doesn't have a steering rack. It uses a conventional power steering box/drop arm/drag link/etc.

    The initial reaction of most people when driving a Wrangler for the first time, is that the steering seems overly light and almost too sensitive. Most people find the quick response ideal for city traffic. Generally, the least favored conditions are on an open highway or bridge with gusting side winds. Loose steering with no feedback would indicate a fault with that particular vehicle.

    Anyhow, I'm glad you had a fun time and it didn't change your mind about becoming a Wrangler owner.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Wouldn't want the steering to be "too" responsive, since the rest of the vehicle would not be "up to it."

    Ya gotta realize that off road capability means big time sacrifices in on road stability and handling.

    Short wheel base, narrow track, and the high center of gravity due to good ground clearance all take away from highway handling, but, man, do they ever contribute to awesome off road capability! A Jeep is never gonna feel like a car on the highway. You just have to be willing to accept that in order to be a Wrangler owner.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    i got some wide 2 sided velcro, using it to strap everything to the roll bars, those little straps, shovel, flashlight, tow strap. works great, keeps everything from bouncing around.

    i could only find the stuff in a 25 yard roll. can't figure out what to do with the other 20 yards.

    jeff
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Had to make a run to Mickey D's for breakfast grub this AM, and the local DC dealer is just a few hundred feet down the road from there. I am in the habit of circling the lot after I pick up the food, and that's what I did today.

    This time there was a silver 05 Unlimited soft top with a six speed manual tranny sitting there.

    It looked pretty good, but I noticed that the flares were painted silver, just like the body.

    What's the deal there? That's sure better than GRAY FLARES!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    In responding to your comments/questions about steering, I didn't think about the underlying reason for them, i.e., driving fun.

    Joe, to me, driving my Jeep, even on the pavement, is FUN. Sitting up nice and high with good visibility, seeing people eyeball my Jeep and smile, the Jeep wave, and, oh brother, the ULTIMATE: topless/doorless driving on nice days!

    So, there are different ways to have fun driving a vehicle. Power and handling are not the ONLY things that contribute to driving fun.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Now that sounds nice - none of the dealers around here have the '05s yet. I would have at least test driven the 6 speed, though I still think I would have bought the auto.

    Perhaps DC is re-thinking the grey flare issue - I'm sure we aren't the only ones who think it looks bad.

    There's frost on the roofs today! Of course, the weather is only teasing us out here - it is supposed to get really hot again next week.

    My other half isn't too sure about the seats in the Unlimited. The seat backs are designed differently and don't have support in quite the same places. They aren't uncomfortable at all (not like the Taco!) - just different.

    I still haven't come up with a name. The color is just a brighter, more saturated version of the color they use on Forest Service vehicles, so I thought about using that theme. Ruled out Ranger - I don't want anyone to think I have a Ford. Ruled out Scout - it isn't made by International Harvester (does anyone remember their Scouts? I do, thought they were wonderful and would have loved to own one when I was in college). Thought of Kit (as in Kit Carson) might be OK, but that's been taken - it isn't exactly a high tech car like Knight Rider had. I'm just no good at naming anything! I didn't name my Noble Black Steed, he named himself. If I don't come up with something soon, I'll wait and see if this one names him/herself too.
  • mcrrtmcrrt Member Posts: 93
    Tom,

    I think I can explain the painted flares. From what I've read on other forums, there will be 3 trim levels for the Unlimited in '05: base, premium, and rubicon. The base version gets the dull gray flares, premium gets a few extra gadgets (like the fancy mirror on mtngal's) along with painted flares and a chrome grill surround, and you know all about the Rubi version. The thing that confuses me about the one you saw was the info I had said the Premiums got graphite painted flares, like the Columbia and RME versions of the SWB in '04.

    Marcus
  • twylietwylie Member Posts: 619
    only two things I can think of that would give you the feeling of loose steering would be if the owners had done either or both of the following: 1) aired the tires down for off-roading and not aired them back up for the ride home, or 2) left the sway bar disconnected when you were driving. Either of those will cause a less than ideal driving experience on road. Glad you enjoyed the off-roading. Remember, there is only one Jeep!

    -twylie
  • mcrrtmcrrt Member Posts: 93
    mtngal,

    Congrats again on the Unlimited! I hope you love it as much as I love mine. I saw the pics you posted, and I must say I like the green better than I thought I would, especially with the chrome grill accents. How about "Kermit" for a name? Perhaps we could start a "Name Harriet's Jeep" contest! I'm still trying to come up with a name for my yellow Unlimited...I'm thinking maybe "Joon"...any comments?

    Marcus
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Well, the flares may have been graphite, but it seems that they were a good match for the body color. Could be just coincidence that the gaphite flares match the silver body paint? Or maybe they were just close enough that I THOUGHT they matched?

    And, yes, the grill was chrome on that puppy.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    That is WEIRD! I don't think I will ever be able to see an SE and wonder if it has the 4.0 L. I will ALWAYS see an SE and think "four banger." (Not that there is anything wrong with the four banger for lots of people's needs.)

    Next thing you are gonna tell me that the Dana 44 is optional on the SE????

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I didn't much care for the chrome grill on that Unlimited that I saw this AM. It was too much chrome for my taste. I like the chrome OK on Mtngal's Unlimited, since it just outlines the slots in the grill. That Unlimited this AM had the whole grill chrome, though, and, in my opinion, that was too much chrome.

    Guess DC forgot to check with me before deciding on that, huh? :)

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • arizonajoearizonajoe Member Posts: 123
    The Rubicon owners I rode did both of the things twylie mentioned: they disconnected their anti-sway bars and they aired down before hitting the hard stuff.

    The driving I did was on the trail, not on the street, and the steering wheel was all over the place with no connection to the "road" surface. I guess the above factors contributed largely to that feeling...

    By the way, let's say I buy an '05 Sport with the 30" Canyon package, the Track-Lok, and 4-wheel discs (the last two are part of the "Brake and Traction" group for '05). What am I giving up to the Rubicon? And am I going to be significantly handicapped on these off-road trips compared to them? I assume all Wranglers are highly capable off-road - am I right?
  • guy21guy21 Member Posts: 129
    If you saw an 05 Unlimited with the chrome grill, it is what they call the "H - Premium" package and is to have "extra wide painted body colored" fender flares. All Rubicons are to have neutral gray flares. We will have to see some to tell neutral gray from medium gray.

    The Dana 44 is optional on Sport, standard on Rubicon and Unlimited. But now that you have quit, a smoker's package option is available.

    Also, in the fine print, SEs, Xs, Sports and base Unlimiteds with Khaki interiors are to come with Khaki fender flares.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Oh yeah, ALL Wranglers will amaze you by what they can do off road.

    But, if you are interested in off roading, and it sounds like you are hooked (one time is all it usually takes), then by all means, get the Rubicon, if you can swing the extra bucks.

    You couldn't begin to modify a Sport to the capabilities of a Rubicon without spending three or four times as much money as the price differential between the Sport and the Rubicon.

    You get Dana 44 axles front and back with the Rubicon (You would get the Dana 44 in back with the Sport and the package you mentioned, I believe, but you would have a Dana 30 up front with the Sport).

    BY ALL MEANS, GET THE DANA 44 REAR AXLE IN WHATEVER JEEP YOU GET!

    The Rubicon has selectable lockers front and back. Selectable lockers are VERY expensive. They are nice, because lockers are not desireable on pavement. It would be nice to be able to turn the lockers off when you are on pavement, and you can do that with selectable lockers. The rear differential in the Rubicon is a limited slip when the locker is not on. Talk about best of both worlds!

    You get a 4:1 trasfer case low range with the Rubicon vs. 2.72:1 for the Sport. This gives you a real nice, slow crawl speed while allowing a more "street friendly" gearing in the differentials.

    The Rubicons come with 31" x 10.50" Goodyear Wrangler MT/R tires, and those puppies are great off road tires and they are very expensive.

    Joe, get the Rubicon, if you possibly can. But, you would be happy with a Sport (assuming you got the Dana 44 rear diff), if you can't swing the Rubicon.

    Ask any and all questions you may have, but it would also be a good idea to read LOTS of the posts in here.

    You might pick up a little something of use in my website, if you want to check it out.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~tsjay49/

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • chrisneedsarubchrisneedsarub Member Posts: 7
    I am going to get a rubicon soon and need to know if it is better to wait for an 05 with the 6sp or just get the 2004 at a discount?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Jeep dealers are not known to give much more discount on the previous model year units. This always baffled me: why would people pay about the same amount of money for a Jeep that is considered a year old? I guess people do it, and that's how the left over models get sold.

    The sad thing is that the 05s will have BUTT UGLY gray flares. That alone would make me go with an 04, even considering what I said above.

    I would have to make arrangements for the dealer to replace the gray flares with some black ones, if I bought an 05. Trouble is, they don't make the tops in black any more either.

    Guess that would just take me out of the market for an 05 and force me to go with an 04.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Kermit is a great name, but that's the name of Paul's Wrangler. I'm leaning toward Scout at the moment.

    We took it up Lieber Mountain today and I added a couple of photos to my album in webshots (address is: http://community.webshots.com/album/188823439kZLZAP?745 ). It still looks great, even though it is now dusty. The interesting thing is that the forest service road I was on had been in the middle of the Pines fire - so there were signs of bulldozers and blackened trees and brush for much of the drive. It still amazes me how much burned in that fire. Anyone heading out to the great outdoors - please be careful out there!

    The right answer to your question whether to buy a Rubicon or a Sport comes down to what are you planning on doing? I have a stock Sport (except it has BFG AT tires on it) and it is very good off-road. It goes where I want to go without any problems. About the only reason for getting the Rubi is to get the lockers, and perhaps you'll be doing the types of off-roading where you will need them. If so, get the Rubi. If you don't have the extra bucks, get the Sport and have a blast!
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    As far as the 6 speed - I didn't wait for it to come out. There's nothing wrong with the current 5 speed - I've never felt a desire for an additional gear, and I would guess that if I were using it for a daily-driver, I would mostly start in 2nd gear (I'm assuming that the extra gear is a lower gear). I get tired enough going through 5 gears in daily driving (my first pickup truck had 3-on-the-tree). Of course, you could always do what I did this time and buy an automatic...

    I ended up getting $2,000 cash back - $1,000 basic cash back, $500 for financing with Chrysler and $500 military. That and the grey flares were enough for me to buy now rather than wait for the 2005's.
  • arizonajoearizonajoe Member Posts: 123
    Can someone explain to me what the Trac-Lok does? Edmunds explains the option as "...locking rear differential, limited-slip rear differential and 3.73 axle ratio."

    Is it both a locking differential and a limited slip? How is it engaged, and how does it differ from whatever the Rubicon rear diff is doing?
  • wheelsdownwheelsdown Member Posts: 250
    How about the old comic book hero (I think I remember) The Green Avenger?

    Terry
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Trac-Lok is a limited slip differential, and is available on non-Rubicon models. It uses a clutch pack and is automatic in operation.

    The Rubicon has Tru-Lok, which is a combination limited slip/locking differential in the rear axle. In normal operation it acts as a limited slip using worm gears. It can also be locked at the flick of a switch. The front Tru-Lok is a selectable locker which reverts to open differential operation in normal use.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I remember Green Lantern!
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    To play devils advocate, the other side of that coin is that the extra equipment weighs another 300lbs or so, and the lower ratio in the transfer case is of no benefit unless you're doing serious rock crawling with a manual transmission. Due to its extra wheelbase it's unlikely an Unlimited would ever shine in that application.
  • yanksfanyanksfan Member Posts: 7
    Does anyone know if they will offer the dual top option on the Unlimited any time soon? Is there anything that one can do to have both tops right now or in the near future? Thanks.
    -Brian
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I think it was the Green Hornet. Maybe Wild Thing would be more appropriate - the color is wild all right!

    You can always buy an Unlimited with one top and buy the other top aftermarket. I've always thought that it was better to buy the factory hard top because the Wrangler would be already wired for the defroster and back window/washer. Then get an aftermarket soft top. Others say they have picked up hard tops at great prices, so it can be done both ways, though I doubt there will be any good deals on Unlimited hard tops, so I think that I'd start with the hard top, if you really want both.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I was assuming that you would be doing the "rock crawling" type of wheelin', since I also assumed from your username that you are in AZ. I have never done any rock crawling, but I guess that's about all you do out there in the West, right?

    It is more important for rock crawling to have that 4:1 low range in the T-case than it is for the wheelin' that is done around here, but there are situations that I get into at Turkey Bay where it would be nice to have (like Buttpucker Gulch and Rocky Top).

    A full locker will keep an axle pulling, even when the tire on one side is completely off the ground. Limited slip requires at least a little bit of traction on each side, unless you use the brake trick to "fool" it (use the brake and the gas pedal at the same time, and the brake makes the differential "think" there is traction, since there is resistance).

    Are you thinkin' Unlimited Rubicon or just the standard Wrangler Rubicon? The extra length of the Unlimited version would have both some advantages and some disadvantages for wheelin'. Climbing a steep rock, the extra wheelbase would make it less likely to flip over backwards. One disadvantage would be in break-over angle. With the front and rear wheels being further apart, you would hang the belly on places that a shorter wheel base Jeep would go over OK. I'm not sure about departure angle, but it makes sense that it would suffer from the extra five inches of Jeep behind the rear wheels.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Been meaning to ask ya... how's the back?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    And is Bamatazz still around? Thought of him today since he is in Alabama and I wondered how he did with Ivan.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I have not heard a WORD out of him in ages. Hope he is OK.

    I posted a birthday greeting to him on July 20, and he never posted since then. I think it had been a long time before I posted his birthday greeting since he had posted.

    It's funny, cause I was just thinking about him earlier this evening too.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • 99tj99tj Member Posts: 187
    Congratulations! Lime Green looks much better than I thought it would. You'll get even more looks, in that baby, than the usual envious Jeep looks.

    -Dan
  • jeepheadjeephead Member Posts: 49
    I'm gone for 4 days and there are a 100+ posts - yikes! Just got back from a boating trip on Lake Norris in Tennessee. Ivan hit us on Friday - I think I head that we saw 20 inches of rain there. Yikes! That number sounds a little high, but the lake level rose bigtime. When we put the ski boat in, there was a dock sitting on dry ground by the launch ramp. By the time we pulled the boat out Sunday morning, the dock was floating. Couldn't believe it! However, the lake is basically in the Smokies, and is rained non-stop for a day and a half. Hopefully no one got hit with anything too bad. I live far enough North that I didn't have to deal with any issues at home. Hope everyone in the path is doing OK.

    JeepHead
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    It's doing very well thanks Tom. I was able to stop wearing the body brace (looks like body armor) last Friday. I still can't believe what a positive result I've had. Apart from only being allowed to lift light things for the present, my life is back to normal. I've got a course of physiotherapy to do to get my strength back, then I'm pretty much good to go.

    To keep on track with the board topic, it's so nice to feel the support of the Sahara's seat against the small of my back again!

    :--)
  • gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    Kermy comes to mine.
  • chrisneedsarubchrisneedsarub Member Posts: 7
    the local dealer here has offered me a 2004 with a sticker of 30,750 for 26,750. I am not sure if that includes the 1,000 rebate right now but I am going to check. It is khaki and I want Patriot Blue but with an offer like that it may be hard to pass up. It is also an "Auto-tragic" and I prefer a manual. I am going to go test drive it this week and see what I think of the auto ...

    C
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Good deal, Old Buddy! Glad you are on the mend.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Man, four grand off sticker is NOT BAD.

    Just be sure to get a Jeep that you will truly be happy with in a few months. A killer deal might sound good right now, but BE SURE you really like the Jeep. Make sure it would be a Jeep that you would buy without the big discount.

    Khaki is a great color, in my opinion. Patriot Blue is nice, but it will show scratches, if you are thinking about off roading your Jeep, and if you are not going to offroad, save your money and get a Sport. No need for all the stuff on a Rubi if you are not going to off road.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • chrisneedsarubchrisneedsarub Member Posts: 7
    Yeah I plan on getting it "dirty" ... I am going to see if I can swing the same deal on an ordered Jeep. If not I will just get the khaki, it isnt that I dont like the color, I just like the blue better. More updates after my test drive.

    C
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    For God's sake, work a deal for replacement flares in BLACK, if you go with an 05!!

    The dealer can order some black ones for ya and swap 'em out before you take delivery of the Jeep. They may SAY they can't do that, but if they were going to sell me an 05, they would HAVE to.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    The Light Khaki was my second choice color and I would have been happy with it if I couldn't have gotten the green.

    I'm actually happier with the auto than I thought I would have been. It is different off-road than the 5 speed Sport - I had some problem getting used to where it revs and what that means (or really, what it doesn't mean) with choosing the right gear going up and down hills. I think with some more experience, I could easily off-road an automatic.

    But I'm not going to be doing that much - this one is my daily driver. If I off-road it too much my Noble Black Steed will get too lonely and look at me reproachfully...

    Mac - glad to hear your back is better and that the surgery was worth it. It is always a question-mark when they start working in that area, so I'm glad you have a success story!
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    image

    I wonder how my flares have gotten so distorted? :)

    This was taken just this past Saturday (9/18/04) in Buttpucker Gulch.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Man it sure looks dry there Tom. Looks like you avoided the bad stuff. :)

    Kermit is my 4 banger! :) No self respecting frog would be lime green! :) I like the Green Avenger, but Dodge or somebody made an Avenger too back in the 70's. I think Wild Thing works well.

    Mtngal, so is the NGS (Noble Green Stretch) your new baby or your hubby's?

    As much as I love the idea of more storage for a Jeep, I'd probably have to go with the SWB Rubicon for my next one (I just have to get one before they redesign em!).

    Oh yeah, what is the best way to tow a TJ (all wheels off the ground or just have the front lifted up)? I may be hauling it a good distance soon and wanted to find the best way to move it. The distance is too far for me to feel comfortable driving a 2.5L that far for that long, so I may tow it with my Grand. Any input welcome.

    -Paul
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I had already gotten past the toughest part when that pic above was taken.

    This one shows the "fun" spot that used to get me all the time. My spotter did a great job keeping me far enough to the right (to the left from the driver's perspective) and up on that wall high enough.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?

    image
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    that little stretch of trail would make my butt pucker!! a very appropriate name..

    jeff
  • larry18larry18 Member Posts: 48
    Don't let Tom fool you into thinking he is actually driving Thelma in those tough spots. In reality it is Ross Allen who does all of the tough driving!
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