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2010+ Buick Lacrosse Engine and Powertrain Problems
e_net_rider
Member Posts: 1,380
Please post related issues here.
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Because of your post I gave it a check.
Going forward, brake applied RPM drops maybe 150 RPM. Foot off brake, engine speeds back up, but is barely enough to hold vehicle.
I backed into driveway and noticed the same RPM behavior, but with foot off brake in reverse the vehicle rolls forward.
I also feel some other odd shifting going on. It seems like I am in 3rd gear even before I hit 25 mph with the engine never revving higher than 2,300 rpm before shifting. I drove a 5-speed Honda for 14 years and never took it out of 2nd until 35 mph or 3800 rpm. My 2001 Regal GS shifted more smoothly than this. The "odd" points occur mostly in downshifting at low speeds under 30 mph. They just don't seem smooth.
I am still under 600 miles so am just beginning the break-in period. Will this performance improve or does it need to be looked at or is this just the way it is?
I will Google it but does anyone know of a source to get the shifting sequence at rpm's for this 6-speed?
If someone tries trailering with this vehicle they will likely have very serious issue.
I would have thought that Buick would have corrected by now what is reported there in 2008 and 2009 model year vehicles. The descriptions of downshifting,etc. are very similar to what I have been experiencing. Has anyone with a 2010 LaCrosse had this issue corrected by a transmission recalibration?
I plan to do quite a bit of high altitude driving in my 2011 and would hate to be challenged by a balky transmission as has been reported by Enclave owners.
But also the computer learns your driving technique,
The biggest tranny complaint on that vehicle seemed to be its downshift pattern from 6th gear. Many claimed it was dropping two gears at the same time and giving too much acceleration along with revs. For me, I believe it was only dropping one gear and releasing the TCC giving the feeling of a downshift of two gears. Also I learned the sweet spot on the accelerator that made the difference of just a downshift and a bit more accelerator to add the TCC release for more acceleration. Because of the complexity of a transmission, it only takes very minor differences during manufacture to make two identical transmissions behave differently.
I strongly recommend staying back behind other vehicles enough to overcome such a lurch. And then give it some time to see if break-in or driving habits alter the situation.
Have you taken your vehicle in to the dealer? I would definitely recommend reading the owners manual 9-17 Breaking-In the vehicle. Please e-mail me with any questions you have. Thank you.
Christina
GM Customer Service
As an owner of a camper and car trailer, I say that's what trucks are for.
My post was to find out if others had similar issues and whether they may have been cured over time. That is until I found the thread about transmission problems in the Enclave.
This vehicle has undoubtably the longest break in I've ever seen.
It also leaves open to interpretation just how often you can run faster than 68.
One minute at 67, then pedal to the metal for five?
Has the alignment been checked? Just a curiosity that could affect issue.
Also minute play in wheel bearing will effect contact of brake pads to rotor and the difference from left to right might induce a pull. How many miles currently?\
You seem to have a watchful eye for irregularities and hope all works out for you. You may or may not have noticed my post concerning rotation of these RSA tires. The manual suggests 7500 miles. From what I've learned about many of the lower profile tires GM uses from GY and tire shop, it seems 5000 miles would be a better time to do it. They have had a lot of problems with cupping and uneven wear, especially if they are run a little low on air. At 5K there will be a better chance of catching before it gets bad. But then you have to way that against the OE warranty which I think expires at 7500 miles.
What I do notice is at highway speeds say on a 3 lane road, if in the left and I loosen grip on the steering wheel, it slightly "drifts" left, if in the center it holds course, in the right lane it slightly"drifts" right. I believe this is due to the natural "crown" effect of the road and is probably normal for wider profile tires (I don't recall this on a previous vehicle with narrower-225/60/R16- tires). I assume (but didn't do it yet due to traffic on the road and safety concerns), that if I applied the brakes, that it would pull in said directions.
Thanks for the heads up on rotation. I'll keep that in mind. I looked at the DOT site and didn't find anything to warn about these GY tires. At least nothing that has risen to that level. I've seen the various complaints on Google searches but I take those with a grain of salt. But at ~$400 a pop it's worth to keep an eye out.
OE warranty? Never got one, did you? Goodyear site says they don't warrant for mileage tires they distribute to auto manufacturers. Tire dealers may provide mileage warranties on tires they sell.
I don't know much about DOT site and you might check if the GY LS or LS2 are listed. I've had mechanics at dealers tell me they have had to replace a lot of them because of bad wear, cupping, and being unable to get good balance presumably after the wear. I don't know if such issues rise to the level of DOT intervention.
I drove on wet road for the first time the other day. These RSA are not as sticky as 235/60R16 Khumo Ecsta I had on Aurora. According to weight sheets the LaX is a couple of hundred pounds heavier which is opposite of what I thought when comparing ride.
As to OE warranty on tire, look in your owners packet. I think tires, rotors, and some other wear parts are covered to 7500 miles by GM. After that they are yours.
(Aurora was Riviera under Buick. 2 door only and different drive train.)
A factor with the weight distribtuion is how the front tires compared to the back tires resist sideways movement with their grip.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No OEM warranties on anything in my packets. Have I been "taken"?
In the warranty booklet it shows 12000 miles for tires at 100%. But at 12001 you loose about a 1/3.
I took a look into mine and rather surprised what was not covered under the powertrain.
I took a look at the OnStar terms and conditions booklet this morning. It is longer than the user book and just about has me freaked after only reading a little more than half. It is enough to have me considering cancelling even the free portion. Maybe a Philidelphia lawyer can advise but it seems to have more loopholes and whose accountable, yet limits them severely statements than I can imagine necessary for having such a feature.
Having the system active you agree to much I'm not sure I comprehend, but it sounds like that would give them permission to monitor voice for keywords via super computers that would catch keywords or phrases. Example mention buying or shopping new camera and you are suddenly inundated with junk mail offers/deals for cameras. Even snail mail since they have your address.
And the way I read it, if someone wants money from them because of this post, they can pay it and charge me for it, possibly under the part mentioning reputation.
Anyone having tranny issues besides the guy who needed a rebuild in only about 1000 miles?
I glanced around the left bank of engine (front) and did not see an outright reason. I did notice that there might be an early stage catalytic converter right at the manifold. This might be making exhaust gases downstream extra hot. Assuming the right bank is the same, perhaps it comes from sudden heating. Although dual exhaust I doubt it is two pipes straight to the rear without some sort of crossover or Y pipe. And then there is that section of pipe just after the early stage converter that is ribbed. Possibly intended to take up expansion.
Stories of replacing entire exhaust system seem like overkill. Possibly shotgunning the problem until the real nature is learned.
Does anyone know the real fix?
Is it possibly related to ambient temperature?
Has anyone been using BP?
There is some interesting info including a statement from BP that there fuel is better than Top Tier but to be on the list they had to submit a package of their additives for review and then be bound to use them for at least one year. Their choice was not to be told what to add to their fuel, they claim.
Also BP has been recommended in some Ford vehicles and the BP logo is actually on the gas cap.
I did run across that Ford is apparently in part ownership of some of BP's area of expertise. It may have been in LPG marketing and I'd have to double check that.
Anolther statement claims GM is behind the Top Tier and that Ford and Chrysler were not involved.
I would like to hear what GM says concerning BP's claim they are better than top tier.
total miles trip miles MPH MPG Miles Gallons actual MPG Notes
1871 trip start/Chevron
2196 325.2 48 mph 23.7 mpg 325.2 13.397 24.27 mpg start all Shell
2670 798.5 57.5 mph 24.3 mpg 473.3 18.9 25.06 mpg
2878 1006.3 61.9 mph 23.7 mpg 207.8 8.221 25.27 mpg
3174 1243 40.6 mph 21.2 mpg 296 14.603 20.27 mpg 100 miles local
3283 1352.9 21.2 mph 18.3 mpg 109.5 5.987 18.29 mpg 1 hr idle charge battery
3524 1593.9 40.4 mph 25.3 mpg 241 9.015 26.73 mpg 1 1/2 hr traffic jam
3810 1879.8 67 mph 25.8 mpg 285.9 10.588 27.00 mpg
4132 2201.4 66.4 mph 24.5 mpg 321.6 13.185 24.38 mpg
4380 2450.4 59.7 mph 24.0 mpg 248.7 9.485 26.22 mpg trip end
2508.8 103.381 24.268 MPG Totals
Oddometer and trip 1 totals agree. Trip 2 was reset at beginning and not touched till end. If using 2450.4 as miles, mileage drops to 23.7 mpg. Could it have something to do with dead battery?
I don't know that they are connected, but I had the loud clangs at start for a short period of time and it was then that I first noticed drop in MPG. There is no service engine light.
A few weeks later, had my coolant checked for temp protection, acidity, etc and they said it was good on those scores but had sediment and recommended a flush/changeout. Returned later to do this and they said it couldn't be done due to excess sediment and I might need a heavy duty flush at a radiator specialist. Manager at the garage and a service writer at current dealer also said I might be better off leaving it alone as a strong flush might dislodge plugged up leaks!
I have heard of such things happening and such blocking is usually due to corrosion. Leaks might be attributed to that at a second stage as well as seals failing. And there is also the nemesis of electrolytic corrosion which will produce leaks. A quick check for that can be done by using a cheap volt meter and putting one probe into the radiator mouth and the other to the negative terminal of battery. Also with key on and engine running. It would be in the millivolt range but over time it will eat system up.
As to dislodging plugged leaks, that is true. But you are then taking a chance with what is basically a failed radiator. It will not cool properly and could show up when temps are hotter and possibly damage engine. Also the metal may be nearly eaten through and it is just waiting for the chance of pressure building to the burst point.
I would look for a reputable radiator shop that guarantees their work. If capable, you can save a lot of money if you remove and take to shop, but you must also make certain it is properly reinstalled. You also are certain that they have not added some sort of plugging material to the coolant to get you down the street that way. Some shops have the capability of removing end tanks and putting new seals in. Check if they can do it to yours. Sometimes this is the only way to get hard scale out of core, remove end tanks and push a rod through the core channels. If badly corroded it also increase the risk of puncture.
When you have a price for radiator repair, check with radiator suppliers for price of new one and make sure it is warranted. They sometimes have OE radiator.
If you decide to proceed, I would run a heavy duty flush through system before dismantling so that it has a chance to clean the inside of engine. It will at least rid any oily films that have occurred which impede heat transfer.
To do properly is rather lengthy. First you need to flush all coolant from system including heater core and block. Often the easiest way is to remove drains and thermostat. Run water through cold engine before reassembling thermostat housing. If there is a coolant control valve in coolant for heater you will need to have it energized to ensure flushing of heater core. That usually means running engine with air conditioner in heat mode. Then again draining and flushing as much as possible from block and radiator. Since at this point your main aim is cleaning of block and heater core, it would be best to have thermostat installed when adding the super flush to the system. You will otherwise have a hard time reaching operating temperature so the flush does its job.
And then you need to flush as much of the flushing chemical from the system as possible. If your drinking water has a lot of minerals in it, you might consider pouring some distilled water through block from thermostat housing to get rid of much of that hard or acid water. There is usually so much water left in block that you might have a hard time reaching a 50/50 mix. In such cases you can more easily achieve that mix by pouring some straight coolant into the block with radiator drain open and watch for the color change at the drain plug. You may see a faint color change at first while it is pushing mostly water out.
Finally close up system except fill point and add straight coolant until you have the calculated percentage you want, of the system capacity. 50/50 is considered factory minimum. Jug of coolant should have chart for higher percentages of mix for boiling and freezing points. It is not useful to go above their highest percentages.
BTW, definitely check all hoses before installing new coolant. If you smell hot coolant in vehicle in heat mode you likely have a leaking heater core or leak at hose attachment point. You don't need to breathing those quite toxic fumes. If OE hoses are less than 10 years old they should be OK. If replacing, it is best to reuse OE clamps. And best to buy OE hoses or something that lasts as long as OE's do these days. By cheap and you will likely need hose replacement in year or two, far shorter than the 5yr/150K of long life coolants.
To make it simpler, Ford says to put in what the OE color of coolant was. GM usually says Dexcool and at least one version they sell now is orange, it gets a bit confusing because mine is pinkish and calls for Dexcool.
Good Luck.
On don't know on what planet that would be normal, but possibly. Can everyone give theirs a quick check to see if you detect the same. Either way it just does not seem normal so maybe many of us have hidden issue.
Strangely, they commented about no existing TSB for issue. I'm hoping it just means they have to jump through a couple of corporate loops to proceed.
What say you?
My wife said this afternoon she never noticed shaking and told her I'd show her when I picked it up. She felt it immediately, probably through passenger seat.
Either every 3.6L should be doing it or it is not normal and I'm not satisfied with their answer that it is normal. I know some vehicles have built in protections via various limiters. My daughters truck is one. It will not rev past about 2500 RPM unless it is in gear. That is certainly not the case here because it revs up farther and smooths out.
I will accept reasonable explanations and normal is not an explanation. There seems to be a 3 point connection. Maybe related. That is the gas mileage dropped suddenly about the same time as I had a few days of the loud metallic clank others have complained about. About 1300 miles later I discovered the rough idle at 1500 RPM.
Whatever the cause it doesn't seem it would be good for longevity of engine. It could be something in the combustion chamber, perhaps related to clanging which some say is exhaust related, maybe a restriction, the ignition system, fuel injection, or even the computer.
BTW, computer is not considered part of powertrain warranty.
Thanks again.
BTW, its been a week since I had my 2011 CXS at about 2700 miles in for punch list items including the replacing the long exhaust pipe from the preconverter to the muffler. No 'clang' noises since in about 10-20 starts. I told the service manager before the replacement that from the time he ordered the part to the scheduled appointment, that the frequency of 'clangs' had decreased and was actually at zero for about 8 starts prior to the appointment. But, they thought replacement was the best bet from prior cases.
I'm only trying to share hoping we all have the best outcome. I've found other forums I've been in very useful that way. Sometimes it helped locate a difficult problem via other owner experience and has saved my family thousands of dollars.
I never expected to be so active in a new car forums. If I had bought at Walmart they'd just have you exchange and it now seems I would have had to do that several times already.
This automobile has some nice features and overall I'd say it is a keeper for me if they get the punch list of complaints fixed. If not, owner loyalty goes out with the vehicle.
We just made a run to Gatlinburg & Ashville area, about 5 1/2 hours according to NAV. It was much longer because of traffic problems. And terribly hard to get a good MPG figure because of such, except on the way home.
I did notice that the roughness seems to be worse and covering a wider range of RPM. Also it seemed to show up with the hilly terrain as less power going up and sometimes it seemed I could feel it. If it decided to downshift a gear it would go away at that point.
We filled just outside Ashville for trip home and saw about 28MPG as we descended but that rapidly dropped to about 25MPG as we got to flatter terrain. At home we are near five feet above sea level. Such mileage for this vehicle is not right. 3.6L engine.
Other suspects would be something in ignition such as a coil, wire, or spark plug weak on one cylinder and I don't know if they scoped that. Also something in fuel delivery such as defective injector. And since each is individually controlled by computer that individual output could have a problem. And then of course we get into major mechanical issues such as weak compression on one cyclinder or a flawed casting that could restrict proper flow.
I'm now at about 5500 miles with oil life at 25%. A few minutes ago I pulled stick and put some oil on my finger. It looks like oil I would definitely dump if in older V8 because of brown appearance like it has tiny bits of varness in it. But more alarming was rubbing it between fingers. It did not feel like it had good lubricity. I'll be dumping as soon as I get proper filter and keeping a sample of it because of this issue. BTW, the oil is definitely worse than Malibu I4 with 10K and only 20% life left.
I will also be putting in synthetic to eliminate the browning/varnishing of conventional oil by heat/hot spots in engine.
The invoice said 30 months, but it is actually the same battery, 6 year.
The 30 months is free replacement, the rest pro-rata. But not so for new car warranty per this site.
http://www.acdelco.com/parts/battery/battery-warranty.jsp
For Buicks it is the 4 year/50K that you'd get a new free battery. I'm printing a copy of that since the manual warranty is rather vague.
Our shop guy knew the car cold and found it right off. Another car had a blocked cat converter and that affected idle but not higher speeds.
Just some thoughts to lead your dealer. I feel injector problems on new cars is rare but who knows??? Good luck
Good thinking GM.
A radiator flush could and should be done if it is not cooling as it should. Don't let a plugged radiator ruin the engine.
Remove it and have it done at a radiator shop if necessary, or replace with new one if beyond repairs.
A plugged radiator can occur if it circulates big stuff from engine or the radiator itself is corroding. Normal flushing is just a very good detergent for removing oilly residue. Oil acts as an insulator reducing the ability of moving heat from engine to coolant or coolant to radiator fins.
There must be a better answer to this flawed design and hopefully we are starting to see it.
A blocked exhaust would typically act the opposite, if it is not so bad that you have trouble starting. The electronic sensors and computer may have changed the effect some.
I had issue with blocked exhaust on a small no computer engine a couple of years ago. Darned mud daubers had totally blocked exhaust. It was hard starting and idled erratically. It would not accelerate at all. I was about to tear into it but something made me check exhaust and sure enough, plugged completely.
You are likely right about injector failures, rather rare. But moving back up stream, the computer and other sensors, the chances of an electronic issue increase. All the way back to the exhaust, cat being plugged, or even forward of that to the intake temp sensors, MAF, idle air, etc.
I don't know how well they can diagnose the strange even if they push it into open loop. Opening loop is the best way to troubleshoot a normally closed loop system.
This might all bring us back to the loud clang upon start and the exhaust system. And intermittant symptoms are always hard to work with.